Sega hates success though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Sega master system appreciation thread of SegaScope 3D!
- Thread starter catmincer
- Start date
Actually most Master System MANUALS are printed in Australia and are wildly different from the American ones.
They made it a mainstay on the Megadrive for the most part, printing cheap blue-ink manuals and keeping most of the multi-language manuals to certain releases.
D.Lo
Member
I wouldn't say most (until maybe later, Mega Drive period)? Ozisoft did all sorts of things.
I have had EU and Australian copies of the same games are the manuals are identical, and are printed in Japan. Though oddly the cover slip print had a slightly different blue share for the game title, but that could be different batches.
Some were definitely printed in Australia, but that's even worse - printed locally but still multi-laungauge!
Worst of all, Sonic carts with Sega hotline ads on them!
I believe my 'soft VHS box' Wonder Boy had the box made in Australia, cart made in Japan, and multi-launaguge manual likely printed in Australia. All over the shop.
That's the kind of insane thing about the Australian Sega stuff, is that Ozisoft were so all over the place that it's nigh impossible to track down.
Sometimes they'd just straight import something directly from Europe, sometimes they'd print and make their own stuff, and then sometimes they'd do that, but they'd have a new way of doing things, so they'd do another later print with this new thing in there.
Alex Kidd in Shinobi world, for example, has two different variants on it's manuals - the flip book (with one langage) and the fold out version. You'd probably find the European manual out there too.
Then they'd do their own thing too, like the aformentioned hotline stickers on Sonic 1 & 2 MS or the cheap and nasty plastic cases. There's at least two AU specific manuals for the 16-bit Sonic 1 too - a fold out and an upright book style.
It's super hard to keep up with too. Forever I thought that Sonic 3 only ever had the European manual, but only in the past year have I seen what must have been a short run of White & Blue fold out manuals for the game.
Not to mention the Silver Carts:
Sudden bunch of VHS case releases like Double Packs, Vectorman and Marsupilami
Plus the Gold and Platinum collections, which I saw heaps of as a kid, were Australian only.
Even weird shit like the Booster pack, which was a paint tin with two games inside and some jelly beans:
And there's no real way to tell which "set" was a real one, or if there ever was one. Like you mentioned with your soft box game, it's all over the place.
D.Lo
Member
I had no idea the black and gold classics were Australia only.
The low quality plastic was particularly nasty sometimes on Mega Drive carts.
I think my Wonder Boy is all original. It was bought in a shop like that, so I think Ozisoft literally pieced together a Japanese cart and (possibly Japanese) manual and packaged in a locally made F-grade plastic soft case.
The low quality plastic was particularly nasty sometimes on Mega Drive carts.
I think my Wonder Boy is all original. It was bought in a shop like that, so I think Ozisoft literally pieced together a Japanese cart and (possibly Japanese) manual and packaged in a locally made F-grade plastic soft case.
IrishNinja
Member
^don't think ive ever seen most of those before, even online...awesome stuff!
Hey guys been a long time lurker on GAF for a few years now and decided to join up! I'm currently moving house and stumbled on my sms collection. I want it to go to a good home and I'm willing to give it away for free for anyone that wants to pay postage (I'm in Brisbane Australia).
So pm if you're keen.
So pm if you're keen.
D.Lo
Member
To be fair, they're following the traditional Sega model of changing branding and products every two seconds.
Let's look at Sega branding in Japan in that era.
SG 1000 Big Box
SG 1000 Small Box
Sega My Card Mark III
Gold (not really) cartridge
Mark III/Master System co-branded
This is within four years! And apart from the last two, every one of these is a completely different size. It's been a nightmare trying to find box protectors for all of them.
Let's look at Sega branding in Japan in that era.
SG 1000 Big Box
SG 1000 Small Box
Sega My Card
m!pZ9BSQpHcTWiw~~60_1.JPG)
Sega My Card Mark III
Gold (not really) cartridge
Mark III/Master System co-branded
This is within four years! And apart from the last two, every one of these is a completely different size. It's been a nightmare trying to find box protectors for all of them.
Infernal Monkey
Member
Not to mention the Silver Carts:
Hahaha, those bloody silver carts. So gross. I don't think I've ever seen one that didn't have weird dents or scratches on the plastic. Even when they were new!
For sure - Ozisoft slapped their shit together all the time, so there's never a definitive "version" out there.
Like, I bought Sonic 3D: Flickies Island on the Megadrive when it came out. Mine came with the cheap Aussie manual:
But almost all of the ones you'll see online in Australia are the European version, some which just had a "G" rating logo slapped on it:
And then there's the Australian variant which must have popped up later with a new print of it when the G rating was coming in, with the G rating on the box (and correct blue side strip)
As a collector of Sonic crap, this makes my head hurt a little.
ResidentDante
Member
I avoid thinking about that path too, it's just so many versions to purchase it makes my head hurt.
IrishNinja
Member
oh man, cloudau is pretty generous - i totally hit him up but props to dude for wherever that all goes!
also tell me that SG-1000 Golgo 13 is nearly as cool as it looks
also tell me that SG-1000 Golgo 13 is nearly as cool as it looks
Have you been able to find box protectors for the various SG-1000 formats? If so, may I ask where? Thanks!
D.Lo
Member
It's okay, simple shooting game.
NES boxes for large SG1000, Famicom boxes for small SG1000 (tight fit though).
There is nothing on the market for Mark III, card or cart. Both are slightly larger than their SG1000 counterpart.
I think most Sega Master System fans are familiar with the SegaScope 3D television commercial featuring Missile Defense 3D and Zaxxon 3D.
This one however, from 1982 for the original arcade Zaxxon is something I've never seen before. Pretty neat computer graphics for a TV spot that long ago. I like the very end of it the best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f26jTKHCTA
This one however, from 1982 for the original arcade Zaxxon is something I've never seen before. Pretty neat computer graphics for a TV spot that long ago. I like the very end of it the best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f26jTKHCTA
IrishNinja
Member
IrishNinja
Member
was testing out nearly ever SMS ROM for my mega ED, so many gems there & some fun prototypes i didn't know about...my favorite so far is Pit Fighter, which just seems to lock & scream...really, it's what you deserve for wanting that game in 8 bit.
the brazillian remakes of stuff like Ghost House are a blast, as well. went looking for that MUSHA one we saw a YT link of a while back, looks like it's still not done or up for play...found the guy's homepage (thanks to SMS base) and he's got a few proof-of-concept ones, like a Truxton title screen basically.
on the upside, SMS Brawl works! controls about as well as you'd expect, haha. oh hey, did cloudau ever come back around? crazy that someone'd only show to be so generous, we need more love in this thread!
the brazillian remakes of stuff like Ghost House are a blast, as well. went looking for that MUSHA one we saw a YT link of a while back, looks like it's still not done or up for play...found the guy's homepage (thanks to SMS base) and he's got a few proof-of-concept ones, like a Truxton title screen basically.
on the upside, SMS Brawl works! controls about as well as you'd expect, haha. oh hey, did cloudau ever come back around? crazy that someone'd only show to be so generous, we need more love in this thread!
Oh, there were 8-bit versions alright:
You never know -The MSversion could have been surprising!
Beautiful.
IrishNinja
Member
...so Golden Axe Warrior
back in like...'91 or 92, i forget, my local TRU was dumping their SMS games, but they didn't have many i didn't already own (King's Quest had sold out! few others too), i grabbed a copy of this game for like $10 i wanna say. I was pleased that it was such a blatant Zelda clone (i adore OG Zelda), but it's pretty rough, especially at first! got a dungeon or two in, and shelved it for a few years while i played more Genesis and then Sega-CD stuff. came back years later, and for the first time i recall this happening...the battery had failed.
i'd end up selling this copy with most of my sega stuff during hard times in '03 or so, sadly.
fast forward to 2012/2013 when i was replacing some of my lost games, and i scooped up a PAL copy on ebay for about $40 something, and was quite pleased! played this one a lot more, got about 4 dungeons in...before the battery again failed me. you can imagine the creative expletives i had here; i assure you, i take care of my games & this doesn't usually happen.
so yeah, i was just gonna replace the battery but at this point i said fuck it, i'll wait till i have a better option - and in 2014, i got a Mega Everdrvie! so happy to save to flash memory - that is, except for that one time when i beat dungeons 3 & 4 and ran downstairs to booze with a fellow gaffer, forgetting to reset my system before powering down =/
anyway, finally beat the game last night! meant to screencap it, but i was just so happy to finally have it done...i admittedly cheesed the final Death Adder fight, but man that last dungeon was kinda brutal so no apologies, haha. loved the GA fanfare & it's definitely on my list of favorite zelda clones - huge overworld map (loaded with secrets!), and the upgrading of armor/weapons etc is a bit more frequent here & gives a sense of progression. there's way more little towns/outposts, and little changes/improvements to the formula that absolutely make it worth playing for classic Zelda fans.
back in like...'91 or 92, i forget, my local TRU was dumping their SMS games, but they didn't have many i didn't already own (King's Quest had sold out! few others too), i grabbed a copy of this game for like $10 i wanna say. I was pleased that it was such a blatant Zelda clone (i adore OG Zelda), but it's pretty rough, especially at first! got a dungeon or two in, and shelved it for a few years while i played more Genesis and then Sega-CD stuff. came back years later, and for the first time i recall this happening...the battery had failed.
i'd end up selling this copy with most of my sega stuff during hard times in '03 or so, sadly.
fast forward to 2012/2013 when i was replacing some of my lost games, and i scooped up a PAL copy on ebay for about $40 something, and was quite pleased! played this one a lot more, got about 4 dungeons in...before the battery again failed me. you can imagine the creative expletives i had here; i assure you, i take care of my games & this doesn't usually happen.
so yeah, i was just gonna replace the battery but at this point i said fuck it, i'll wait till i have a better option - and in 2014, i got a Mega Everdrvie! so happy to save to flash memory - that is, except for that one time when i beat dungeons 3 & 4 and ran downstairs to booze with a fellow gaffer, forgetting to reset my system before powering down =/
anyway, finally beat the game last night! meant to screencap it, but i was just so happy to finally have it done...i admittedly cheesed the final Death Adder fight, but man that last dungeon was kinda brutal so no apologies, haha. loved the GA fanfare & it's definitely on my list of favorite zelda clones - huge overworld map (loaded with secrets!), and the upgrading of armor/weapons etc is a bit more frequent here & gives a sense of progression. there's way more little towns/outposts, and little changes/improvements to the formula that absolutely make it worth playing for classic Zelda fans.
D.Lo
Member
My new keyring
Let's not get crazy here (and I do love GAW).
With some exceptions that keep the spirit of the original, or if the original is too clunky/primitive to be playable, I'm almost always for playing on the original platform myself. It's the most pure experience.
D.Lo
Member
It's a cute, solid little game, one of the better action adventure Zelda clones that came out in its wake. It's the most blatant clone of them all though, whole enemies have direct copies. And the legacy Sega 8-bit two button controller doesn't help with this type of game either.
I'm partial to the genre though, I also love Golvellius, and Dragon Scroll and Goonies II on Famicom, I just love getting lost too much lol, the genuine 80s experience (I use guides these days).
I'm partial to the genre though, I also love Golvellius, and Dragon Scroll and Goonies II on Famicom, I just love getting lost too much lol, the genuine 80s experience (I use guides these days).
Eh. I prefer my Golden Axe games to be beat-em-ups.
Always loved this advertisement. Sega Europe > Sega USA ads.
Always loved this advertisement. Sega Europe > Sega USA ads.
Come on now, its ok, but nowhere near Zelda.
I would play the original, simply because it is the original. Also agree that the remade graphics are not great.
The first legend of Zelda? It is, yes. As much as Zelda was an excellent title at the time, Golden Axe warrior just enhanced it. Bigger overworld, more diverse environments, dungeons and enemies, towns to rest in and people to talk to, graphically much more pleasing, etc.
even better: Phantasy Star Complete Collection for PS2, has some speed hacks to make the game go along a bit quicker
Also FM sound, iirc.
D.Lo
Member
Zelda is much more brilliantly designed. Even the fact that Zelda dungeons are shaped like their theme (moon, skull, dragon etc). GAW is more meandering, less tight, like many (most?) 8-bit RPGs of the 80s.
It's just such an insanely blatant ripoff too, and only two buttons really hurts the game.
On top of all this, it was released in 1991! The same year as Link to the Past! Other games had made vast strides in the genre in that time, GAW added, like, some more saves and a slightly bigger/more involved overworld (which actually detract from the focus IMO).
Like I said I do like the game, but the derivative nature, less focused design and it being very primitive for the time of release mean it's just a fun but unimportant side note.
sixteen-bit
Member
even better: Phantasy Star Complete Collection for PS2, has some speed hacks to make the game go along a bit quicker
Unfortunately the PSCC has FM synth for the JP version only. If you play in English it's PSG only.
D.Lo
Member
There's a solution for that. There's a patch to put the FM back in the US version (or is it the US text in the Japanese version? Can't remember I did it so long ago).
Anyway, I can play it in English with FM on real hardware.
D.Lo
Member
I might be getting confused between it and Ys actually (of which there is a straight 'add FM' patch).Had a look around and couldn't find it, do you have a link? Keen to try it out
Here's the one I have I think, it's a retranslation with FM intact (apparently a much better translation though):
http://www.smspower.org/Translations/PhantasyStar-SMS-EN
IrishNinja
Member
aw what
i mean, if you can enjoy say 3D dot heroes, this is great stuff really - im personally down for seeing the greats aped if something's added to the formula
like uh, when justin timberlake did an album like he was MJ, that kinda thing
yeah the 2 button thing was a strike against it for sure, god the SMS not having pause on the controller still burns sometimes. and time to check out Dragon Scroll!
IrishNinja
Member
that's my point bruh
when i run out of name brand food, sometimes true value brand ain't so bad! haha
D.Lo
Member
Sega were somewhat stuck with the primitive tech of the standard Atari DB9 connector (likely because they were cheapskates and because their entire 8 bit line was constantly rushed to the next revision). Every button, including each direction, uses an entire line, which is grounded for the button press. Extra buttons therefore add a lot of cost and loss of reliability. Nintendo controllers were much more advanced and robust, using an IC for communication.
What's hilarious is that Sega finally added extra buttons in 1988 with the introduction of the Mega Drive to bring it up to... only four buttons, like the Famicom had in 1983...
Actually, Sega controller history is even crazier. I'm going to do a write up on it sometime soon, because I managed to get a rare SJ-151 pad.
IrishNinja
Member
oh wow, that thing looks cool - lookin forward to your write-up man!
ResidentDante
Member
I love reading stuff like this! Interesting to know what made Sega be so sparse on the button side. I'm guessing it was fixed by the time the six button Mega Drive controller arrived.
Looking forward to your write up, be sure to post it here!
D.Lo
Member
It will be much nicer with pics of the real controllers lined up, but basically the gist of it is this:
Poor Sega, literally 1-3 years behind at every single step.
- 1981 Nintendo completely reinvents cheap directional input with the calculator style plastic to rubber membrane design of the d-pad in the Donkey Kong Game and Watch. Equal (or close) to microswitch joysticks in speed, reliability and precision. Vastly superior to Atari joysticks and buttons which use leaf connectors (bending metal) to register button/direction presses.
- 1983 Nintendo releases the Famicom with controllers which feature the Donkey Kong dpad, and soft rubber A/B buttons (this is the square button Famicom). The rubber buttons are not the best, for this reason (combined with a chip issue) Nintendo recalls these models in early 1984 and replaces them for customers. Of note, the Famicom has spots to dock the controllers on the side of the console, so cords came out the side of controllers.
- 1983 Sega releases SG1000 with primitive old paradigm joystick that uses terrible old leaf connectors
- 1984 Nintendo updates the Famicom controller to have hard plastic over rubber membrane A/B buttons for better responsiveness
- 1984 Sega Releases the SG1000 II, with SJ-150 controller which has a variation of the Famicom dpad, but a copy of the original Famicom soft rubber A/B buttons. Console also features controller docks on the side of the console.
- 1985 Sega releases the SJ-151 controller with later SG1000 II consoles with hard plastic over rubber membrane A/B buttons. The first all round good Sega pad (I think my favourite 8-bit Sega pad too)
- 1985 Sega releases the Mark III with SJ-152 controller, basically just a redesign of the SJ-151. Continues to feature controller docks.
- 1985 Nintendo brings the Famicom west as the NES with an externally redesigned (more squared off) controller that keeps all internals of the hard button Famicom pad as-is (it even uses the same board) and due to the NES having no controller docks, it even improves the Famicom pad slightly by having the cords come out the top instead of the side of the controller.
- 1986 Sega brings the Mark III west as the Master System, like the NES no controller docks, with an externally redesigned (more squared off controller) that still has the cords out the side, and a much worse less responsive larger square dpad than the SJ-151 or SJ-152. It is also made with cheaper plastic as the console is produced outside Japan in various places like Taiwan (Mark III and earlier, and all Nintendo consoles until the Wii, were made in Japan)
- 1987 Sega revises the Master System pad to have the cord come out the top like the NES, but the revision has an even worse, cheaper dpad than the first MS one that breaks in the corners.
Poor Sega, literally 1-3 years behind at every single step.
Not Master System, but I recently bought a ton of random Japanese Game Gear manuals for The Video Game Art Archive for me to scan and extract, and two of them were Madou Monogatari games.
It's almost forgotten now, but Madou Monogatari is the series which birthed the Puyo Puyo series. Same characters, Puyos are basically the "slime", and it's a super hardcore dungeon crawl styled game. So weird that Puyo had a life way before the puzzle series which it's mainly known for now.
It's almost forgotten now, but Madou Monogatari is the series which birthed the Puyo Puyo series. Same characters, Puyos are basically the "slime", and it's a super hardcore dungeon crawl styled game. So weird that Puyo had a life way before the puzzle series which it's mainly known for now.
ResidentDante
Member
Great info! Lol at Sega having a better controller prior to the MS one. I had the MS2 growing up and the neighbour kid had the NES. It was always something that bothered me with the MS d-pad, that just made the NES much better to control games with. At the time of course I had to defend the MS. I do like the soft squishy feeling of the two buttons on my MS pad though.