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[.Pennywise]

Who decides what is "Good indies"? The thing you are talking about is completely subjective....

Based on the reveal, what would you consider "Good"?

A lot of them I found interesting to say the least. But a lot of them I could not tell apart one from another. Not to mention that there was some reaally early development and low quality being showcased. Again, more as filler than a good showcase.

 

[Raonak]

I think Sony had a great mix of indie and AAA

 

[.Pennywise]

I understand your point, so what would you like to see? what would solve the problem that you seem so concerned about?

Oh i've just answered that in my previous post before your reply went.

I'd like maybe more curated spotlights or as someone said in a post, put expectations in check for your show if you're going to show a lot of low budget content. AT LEAST don't use it as filler just for the sake of your show.

 

[The Infectious Paradox]

Also a big problem is terrible stream quality... The most 360p 1080p I've ever seen

 

[.Pennywise]

I think Sony had a great mix of indie and AAA

I do too. I'm really looking forward to Kena. And I've found that Little Devil Inside intriguing.

But isn't a low budget furry game/visual novel kind of filler and cannon fodder on a presentation of a next-gen console? I don't know man, I find it hard to fit such a game in such a show.

 

[EDMIX]

A lot of them I found interesting to say the least. But a lot of them I could not tell apart one from another. Not to mention that there was some reaally early development and low quality being showcased. Again, more as filler than a good showcase.

Wow, I see....so what ever you didn't like was filler? smh

Just say you didn't like it, you think I like every single AAA game or something? Many AAA games revealed I won't buy simply cause they don't interest me, but I'm not going to go around saying its "filler" or anything like that.

So I'd relax on saying stuff like "But isn't a low budget furry game/visual novel kind of filler", simply point out its not for you. Trying to call anything you dislike "filler" just makes no sense.

"cannon fodder on a presentation of a next-gen console? I don't know man " Ok, but you could say the same thing about Little Devil Inside..... Sony is simply showing their new system has games for everyone.

They have no ode to ONLY SHOW AAA to only market to 1 type of gamer. They moved 110 million PS4 because they market many types of games.

So this whole "I find it hard to fit such a game in such a show." is silly.

The point of the show is to clearly show the platform will have variety from developers big and small, from AAA hardcore titles, to yes...visual novels.

 

[Raonak]

I do too. I'm really looking forward to Kena. And I've found that Little Devil Inside intriguing.

But isn't a low budget furry game/visual novel kind of filler and cannon fodder on a presentation of a next-gen console? I don't know man, I find it hard to fit such a game in such a show.

I personally appreciated how there was something for everybody. The wide variety of games great imo. Not everything hit for me, but I wasn't expecting it to.

Hell I found that visual novel more interesting than fucking NBA or GTAV. Thank fuck there was no call of duty.

 

[Matsuchezz]

Oh i've just answered that in my previous post before your reply went.

I'd like maybe more curated spotlights or as someone said in a post, put expectations in check for your show if you're going to show a lot of low budget content. AT LEAST don't use it as filler just for the sake of your show.

I believe Sony made good calls on the amount of indie games to show, and for different tastes, the great thing about the PS consoles it's that there is always a game for any kind of gamer, on the PS5 presentation there were several indie games that caught my eye and some did not do it for me, but after watching reactions to the conference I realized that those that did not appeal to me, caught the eye of some gamers and that is really cool. So, there are no fillers if those games that i did not like appeal to someone else. It would be awesome that all the games presented were marketed at my own particular tastes. I am glad Sony hand picked the games that were shown and I am glad that most of them appealed to me and realistically i will buy 10 or 12 of the overall games that were shown last Thursday.

I just found out about this game and it is really cool. It is a bless that we now have game trailers and reviews, I remember when I was a kid, and my brother and I had to pick and buy games based on the back of the box descriptions and screenshots and we were lucky if the games were good.

 

[RedVIper]

Not to mention that there was some reaally early development and low quality being showcased. Again, more as filler than a good showcase.

Sounds like most AAA games, they're revealed 5 years before release in their pre alpha states.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Indies are the new bottom-tier and mid-tier and upper-tier. They're moving up-market and chasing out the crusty AAA publishers who can't compete.

Why shouldn't indies be showcased? Most of the influential games nowadays are indies.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think its more of a problem with the show's approach. A lot of indies tend to be more niche games, they aren't meant for wide audiences, meaning they aren't really adequate to be presented in this kind of show but rather in some youtube video or blog post that interested parties usually look up. Then there's also the fact that a lot of these independent developers try to bring out the same type of wonder AAA games usually do, but can't because of their limited budgets. Some do manage to, but they're very few in number.

In short, niche games should stay in their niche. Trying to bring them out to large wide audiences will mainly get you yawns.
I mean, just try to convince your coworker who only plays high budget cinematic games to play some Visual Novel. Or tell a friend who thinks The Witcher 3 and Skyrim are the best RPGs ever to play some CRPG.
SPOILER: They'll just tell you they're boring

 

[jakinov]

I disagree. There's a lot of games out there but who cares. There's a new Netflix and Amazon show almost every week and probably a new shows on traditional TV too. There's new movies everywhere too and a library and book store full of new books.

People want to create their dream games or people agree on an idea for a game that they really want to make. These ideas sometimes end up being widely liked or can even inspire bigger or other smaller devs to make better games. People try new things things and different consumers get their fancies tickled. There's something for everyone and even if some games nobodoy actually cares about, so what, don't play them. There's plenty of shovelware from big studios too that are just in the past.

When the quantity of games go up in the industry the quality does not go down. Because quality should be measured on the individual games based on your own personal subjective tastes. Not what's out there in the ether. Does the quality what you consider good art go down because a bunch 3 year old are drawing millions ugly little animals? People are making individually distinct games I would argue that you will find more games that you consider "quality" when you have a lot of different people attempting to create games that might tickle your fancy than if they weren't.

The only problem of more content is that there more to search through when finding what you like. But that's arguably just a first world problem . It's also a problem that there are solutions to help you find what games to play just like there are solutions to help you find what book to read, what show to watch or movie to watch.

Also, Xbox and Sony do give spotlight to indie developers who make small games but they give it to the ones that impress them. They all don't appeal to me but they art in them are arguably pretty good without many (if any) graphical technical blemishes. The newer shows don't have the pull to get games from big publishers so they have to show indie games and most PC games released today are from indies.

 

[yurinka]

Irrelevant.

If you get 10 indies and 50% are good you'll get 5 good games.

If you get 100 and 10% are good you'll get 10 good games.

You only have to buy the good ones.

In addition to this, when getting 100 maybe 10 of them will be good ones for me, and maybe 10 different ones will be good ones for you. So the more we see, the better, because everyone has different tastes. So the more they show, you'll have more chances to find something you like.

 

[rofif]

I think Sony had a great mix of indie and AAA

Except many aaa looked like indie because cartoony graphics

 

[Raonak]

Except many aaa looked like indie because cartoony graphics

LoL, if you think Ratchet, Demons, or Horizon looked indie, then that's on you.

 

[rofif]

LoL, if you think Ratchet, Demons, or Horizon looked indie, then that's on you.

Not those of course

 

[teezzy]

95% of games are straight up trash.

fixed

 

[Mr Hyde]

I only buy the good ones and filter out the rest. Tune out the noise and you will feel better. Like with everything else going down in the world.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Problem with showing that many Indies though is that I was looking at some of the ps5 ones going... Ya that's gonna release on Switch.

You're watching a PS5 video for the games pushing console games. Give me more reasons to buy your PS5.

There is a time and place for Indie games. One or two is fine but it really felt like padding to the conference I'm afraid.

 

[teezzy]

Been playing on Steam since 2013. Indies have always been commonplace.

OP, are you upset they're hogging the spotlight? Maybe there just aren't enough AAA titles to get excited about.

To each their own I guess, but Fae Tactics looks like it bops, and I won't hear anything otherwise:

 

[Roufianos]

I think they're pretty much expected at the IGN showcase, not gonna have EA and Ubi making announcements there.

I do agree though that they really had no place at the PS5 showcase, the event would have been so much more impactful if it was 30 mins of the AAA games. Doesn't help that most of the indie titles looked awful.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

An increasing amount of indie devs doesn't somehow lower the quality of each individual game.

Lots of indie games looking sameish (I agree) is not some kind of law of nature at work here, but the simple reality of a lot of not-so-creative industry professionals. They don't have to look the same just because they're indies. It's just that most games aren't inventing the wheel again. Indies have tons of potential in the right hands.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Irrelevant.

If you get 10 indies and 50% are good you'll get 5 good games.

If you get 100 and 10% are good you'll get 10 good games.

You only have to buy the good ones.

Discoverability and economic sustainability for these games becomes problematic after a certain threshold.

Still, we are nowhere near that point IMHO and the quality of these A and AA titles is far above phone shovelware .

 

[yurqqa]

IBut as I said, the more there are, the lower the overall quality.

What is the logic behind this ?

 

[SupremeHoodie]

I do feel like it would be better if companies allocated a certain time slot in their presentations for indie games. That’s how it actually used to be. But now whole conferences are indies fests and I can see why people are tired of them.

 

[captainraincoat]

Some people clearly don’t remember the ps4 launch.....first 2 years indies are what kept the ps4 ticking along

 

[Dontero]

I actually like Indies when they try to do something new.
Instead, most Indies just try to ape past AAA titles on a smaller budget.

Pretty much.

 

[Bankai]

Bullshit. I loved a LOT of the indie-titles in PS5 conference and can't wait to play them.

I am sooooo happy there aren't lots of generic "triple A" (please read in Jim Sterling voice) openworld, FPS, pay2win, free2play, "live service" (again, in Jim's voice) being touted as next-gen.

 

[SirKicksalot]

The PS5 indies have horrible art styles except for that one game made by the brothers.
There's something wrong with younger artists. It all melts together in some dumpy, doughy, barely expressive cartoon look with sickly colours and flat lighting with no depth or thought behind it - and then there's the strange hypnotic voices that alternate between didactic calm and overexcited cutesy squealing.
Those brothers work in VFX and their game has a coherent look, polished expressive models and natural lighting.

 

[theclaw135]

The risk is too great. It's loony to finance triple A games on current tech outside sure-fire formulas.

 

[INC]

Currently next gen console and pc games are mainly indie, or AA studio's
Guess it's to be expected, aaa take longer, cost more etc

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Indie games are hipster shit made for people either trying to relive or live the 2D era.

Bring back B-tier and fuck these latte sipping neckbeard indie pieces of shit.

 

[mr.dilya]

Indie games are hipster shit made for people either trying to relive or live the 2D era.

Bring back B-tier and fuck these latte sipping neckbeard indie pieces of shit.

Exactly. I want more games like HollowKnight.

I don't need a million vapid "retro styled" games with edgy dialogue and terrible controls. And then they have the nerve to charge $29.99, half the price of a regular game. Yeah fuck you.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Exactly. I want more games like HollowKnight.

I don't need a million vapid "retro styled" games with edgy dialogue and terrible controls. And then they have the nerve to charge $29.99, half the price of a regular game. Yeah fuck you.

, to you it is nerve to those teams is not working just for the glory and trying to make a tiny profit. These teams take a big financial risk that, unless you are a very orthodox real-socialist, should be rewarded: they do not have a big IP behind them, they do not have huge influential marketing teams, and the infrastructure for GaaS nickel and dime “live services“.

 

[mr.dilya]

, to you it is nerve to those teams is not working just for the glory and trying to make a tiny profit. These teams take a big financial risk that, unless you are a very orthodox real-socialist, should be rewarded: they do not have a big IP behind them, they do not have huge influential marketing teams, and the infrastructure for GaaS nickel and dime “live services“.

I'd pay $60 for a hollowknight, because it's a quality game.

I don't care what kind of financial risks they are taking, that has nothing to do with me. I can take a big financial risk and start marketing doo-doo sandwiches, doesn't mean I'm entitled to get paid top dollar for them. Simply taking a "risk" doesn't entitle you to a reward.

 

[ACESHIGH]

My problem with these indies is that they:

- Replicate experiences of 8 bit - 16bit era, with inferior results for the most part. Specially in graphics and artstyle. Many of they try to be innovative and end up being convoluted. Not every side scroller has to be a metroidvania, have item and stats and a forgettable story.

- Too many indie games focused on the same genres. Where's the indie answer to Devil May Cry/Vigilante 8/Fatal Frame/Dino Crisis?. There are several genres that were not catered during the past 10 - 15 years. Aim for the Blue Ocean, not the red ocean of Metroidvanias, RPG Makers or Walking Sims. Look at the success all the indie devs that started making 90's style FPS had in the past few years. Look at Rocket League.

- We as customers should lower of expectations if we want the indie AA scene to grow. I'd take a Tank Controlled Survival Horror game with pre rendered backgrounds, even if it has a 2 hour long campaign

 

[michaelius]

There's only so much big budget AAA games releasing each year - platform owners have to fill the gap with something.

 

[-Minsc-]

My take.

Know how Nintendo (and other companies) bury and shelve games which were in development? Indies are more likely to release their crap, especially in this day in age where people pay to play alpha (or even pre-alpha) versions of games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'd pay $60 for a hollowknight, because it's a quality game.

I don't care what kind of financial risks they are taking, that has nothing to do with me. I can take a big financial risk and start marketing doo-doo sandwiches, doesn't mean I'm entitled to get paid top dollar for them. Simply taking a "risk" doesn't entitle you to a reward.

I guess you do not own your business or think about doing so or maybe you want to run a commune... or are just being disingenuous to win an internet argument, but yes the notion behind any even more left leaning capitalist economy is exactly supporting greater risk greater reward which is how people justify the founder of a business reaping more profits than the workers they hire of the business does great.

There is no rule that say that indies must price their games at any maximum price... you do not like it?! Do not buy it, but do not lecture me on this being because the developer is greedy or any other similar thIngs.

You may not care about this or that, but do not cry online about samey games and lack of variety or being screwed over by AAAA publishers nickel and dining you micro transaction infested Free To Play crap in games. You make you bed, you lie in it mate...

 

[synchronicity]

In the vast sea of creative expression, there will be creations of varying kind and (subjective) quality. But the cream has a way of rising to the surface, and the larger the vessel, the more cream. I'm good.

 

[mr.dilya]

I guess you do not own your business or think about doing so or maybe you want to run a commune... or are just being disingenuous to win an internet argument, but yes the notion behind any even more left leaning capitalist economy is exactly supporting greater risk greater reward which is how people justify the founder of a business reaping more profits than the workers they hire of the business does great.

There is no rule that say that indies must price their games at any maximum price... you do not like it?! Do not buy it, but do not lecture me on this being because the developer is greedy or any other similar thIngs.

You may not care about this or that, but do not cry online about samey games and lack of variety or being screwed over by AAAA publishers nickel and dining you micro transaction infested Free To Play crap in games. You make you bed, you lie in it mate...

You making some grand economic argument when all I’m saying is that the vast majority of indie games are over priced for what they offer. As a consumer it’s not my problem to worry about a companies needs, only my needs as a consumer matter.

I am a commissioned salesperson. I don’t make sales by telling people about my financial needs, I make sales by showing how the value exceeds the price of the product they are interested in. If I can’t do that I don’t make a sale. If I make a sale and then client isn’t satisfied I expect to hear about it. Not complicated.

 

[Inuteu]

10 teraflops to play indies that would run in your cell

 

[FranXico]

They are also PSNow and GamePass filler.