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[KaoteK]

Good video as always Jim, though I also have to question using Watchdogs 2 as an example, as the base game offered a ton of content.

The biggest companies are also the greediest, of that there is no doubt. All this serves to make me wait for sales, so I win in the end.

This year I've only bought:

Horizon Zero Dawn
RE7
Nier
Nioh
And Destiny 2 full price.

Out of those, only Destiny 2 is game that has DLC and shitty loot boxes, and I only jumped in so I could play with my friends.

For the most part, I don't care about being there day one any more thanks to the greediness of a lot of AAA companies.

 

[traveler]

The irony here is that everyone probably enjoys loot boxes, including the people complaining about them, in the same way that people like it when a legendary item drops in diablo. Gaf just wants to save money on symmetra skins, but it's not going to happen.

This is the point I'm making here:

As an aside, I've long considered loot games to be somewhat to immoral in that they encourage gambling with your time, causing players to invest more and more time for that "hit", that chance to get just the drop you wanted. Depending on your life situation, this might actually be more devastating on your personal life than gambling with your money.

Yet players are largely fine with that despite being repulsed by games that encourage gambling with money. Hell, in the Destiny 2 discussions, people are outright mad that the rng from Legendary loot drops has been removed, eliminating something for them to grind for. Is this just a reflection of where the majority of players are in life or does the kind of psychology that loot games prey upon/utilize deserve harsher scrutiny if we're going to be holding developers/publishers to higher standards re:gamblers?

If we're going to start holding companies to standards regarding gambling psychology employed in games, we need to go after more than just those targeting wallets- setting up gameplay loops to encourage endless hours of player investment is arguably a far more damaging/disgusting practice.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Warner has 500+ employess in Montreal who haven't put out fuck all in years. Would we, as a community, rather them gut that studio and build it back up once they actually have a major project deep in production or accept microtransactions and DLC in Shadow of War to offset the millions of dollars WB has burnt there?

That's not even remotely how it works.

 

[Terrell]

Did Jim really just solely blame devs for increasing graphical fidelity and complexity in games as if the audience constantly demanding more had nothing to do with it? Citing minecraft and PUBG, ignoring the success of GTAV, aka one of if not literally the most detailed game that released during it's gen and also the most successful title in that studio's history.

It's folks like yourself that are the reason that AAA publishers follow a trend until they've buried it. One thing is successful? That means we ALL have to do it, whether or not it's sensible for the project and for the game's budget.

I think this needs to be said, in case people clearly don't understand: not every game has to follow the example of the last most successful one as though it were the only way to achieve success and make some god-damn money.

And yet we see it all the time and it's part of the reason WHY AAA publishers go out of their way to keep up with the Joneses, both in money spent on spectacle and on the cynical cash-grabs to make it all back. We have more studios collapsing under the weight of this now than at any point in the industry's history and some of the lowest-paid workers to shave costs because of this dire necessity to be flashier and more "realistic" than ever.

Not even big Hollywood studios are so stupid as to think that everything they make can be a fucking blockbuster. Imagine if the next Judd Apatow film HAD TO cost $150 million to make because everyone else was doing it. You'd laugh yourself stupid at that. But in the game industry? That's a Tuesday in any publisher's boardroom. Thank god the industry finally has a thriving indie scene.

 

[31GhostsIV]

Must be nice to know every major game will cost $60.

Over here AAA (read in Jim's voice) can wildly range from NZ$90 to 120 at random, sometimes from the same publisher. Even the platforms are inconsistent. The same game on PSN might be $90, but on Xbox Live it's $120 and vice versa.

I dunno where I'm going with this, just thought I'd point out the concept of a fixed price for games doesn't exist here.

Not in the UK, either.

During the PS3 era, new AAA games would be £39.99. This gen, the prices went up to £49.99, sometimes you can find a decent price on release at £45. Add another tenner on each price for the digital versions, which are always priced higher than their supposedly more expensive to produce retail versions so as to not upset Game or other dinosaur retail stores.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

This is the point I'm making here:



If we're going to start holding companies to standards regarding gambling psychology employed in games, we need to go after more than just those targeting wallets- setting up gameplay loops to encourage endless hours of player investment is arguably a far more damaging/disgusting practice.

So games?

 

[Jacqli]

AAA games were a mistake, they have nothing but lootboxes and season passes.

 

[traveler]

It's folks like yourself that are the reason that AAA publishers follow a trend until they've buried it. One thing is successful? That means we ALL have to do it, whether or not it's sensible for the project and for the game's budget.

I think this needs to be said, in case people clearly don't understand: not every game has to follow the example of the last most successful one as though it were the only way to achieve success and make some god-damn money.

And yet we see it all the time and it's part of the reason WHY AAA publishers go out of their way to keep up with the Joneses, both in money spent on spectacle and on the cynical cash-grabs to make it all back. We have more studios collapsing under the weight of this now than at any point in the industry's history and some of the lowest-paid workers to shave costs because of this dire necessity to be flashier and more "realistic" than ever.

Not even big Hollywood studios are so stupid as to think that everything they make can be a fucking blockbuster. Imagine if the next Judd Apatow film HAD TO cost $150 million to make because everyone else was doing it. You'd laugh yourself stupid at that. But in the game industry? That's a Tuesday in any publisher's boardroom. Thank god the industry finally has a thriving indie scene.

The problem is that the industries are not the same.

Let's take PUBG, since that's been brought up. PUBG is not a Wes Anderson film- it is a game and its play can absolutely be lifted into another experience. So if Bluehole doesn't want AAA polish, that's fine, but how long until a AAA developer/publisher comes along and makes PUBG, but with a budget, snapping up all of PUBG's players?

This might sound outlandish, but look at Heroes of Newerth and Dota 2. HoN offered a less polished version of the experience Dota 2 would go on to offer and was basically invalidated the moment Dota 2 landed, eventually growing obsolete once Valve established their foothold.

Games are far more substitute-able experiences than other media, so you can't just look at one industry and assume the same thing works here. (Ironically enough, that's exactly the criticism you were making at a less meta level) For more single player experiences and "artistic" experiences? Sure, you can make games at whatever you deem the appropriate budget. If you're making a mp title or a title otherwise reliant on player retention, though, you better be able to compete with a big budget version of your game, or risk losing your playerbase to them if you're actually successful enough to be noticed.

So games?

There's a difference between a game whose experience is its own reward and a game where endless lottery tickets are effectively printed to keep players invested. Mario is not the same thing as Diablo.

 

[OléGunner]

My favourite part of the video is Jim expressing that its the Tripple Ayyy publishers raking in the most dough gorging on all the practices of season pass, separate DLC, 3+ game tiers of bronze silver and gold, merchandising, underpaying voice actors, microtransactions, loot boxes and tax haven escapes.

You'd expect the smaller indies to be attempting some of this shit to genuinely make a buck.

But, Tripple Ayyy are like pigs at a trough never fucking content.

Edit: here's also a fairly applicable post from the shadow of war loot box grind thread on publishers and their profit after taxes and everything.

Just a reminder, video game publishers are collectively making billions of dollars in profit per year while crying poor and claiming the only way they could scrounge together enough cash to continue making games is to bring the mobile gaming paradigm to console gaming.

Here's what the major publicly traded companies made last financial year.

EA: $967 million
Activision-Blizzard: $966 million
Ubisoft: $656 million
Take Two: $67 million*
Bandai Namco: $388 million
Square Enix: $176 million
Paradox: $29 million
Konami: $221 million
Sega Sammy: $238 million
Capcom: $70 million
THQ Nordic: $8 million

But keep defending dodgy business practices!

 

[Nick_C]

Warner has 500+ employess in Montreal who haven't put out fuck all in years. Would we, as a community, rather them gut that studio and build it back up once they actually have a major project deep in production or accept microtransactions and DLC in Shadow of War to offset the millions of dollars WB has burnt there?

So this is where we're at now? An appeal to the community's collective humanity?

Where were the 500+ people when Arkham Origins was busted for a lot of people? Oh right, working on story DLC and ignoring the problems people were running into.

That's before we even get to the fact that it's WBI's responsibility to ensure that the studio remains afloat. The last "major" project they had was the Batgirl DLC for Arkham Knight way back in 2015, and before that, Lego: Legends of Chima Online (MMO that lasted ~a year and a half). Whaty you're saying is that the onus lies on the community to keep the studio open and free from downsizing?

Another point, IF the Shadow of War lootboxes are being implemented to sustain the studio, does that mean that their next release will have the same market appeal that SoW has (that demographic will be funding development) and be released, content-complete, free of charge?

It's not the community's responsibility to answer for poor management and no studio output.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

As an aside, I've long considered loot games to be somewhat to immoral in that they encourage gambling with your time, causing players to invest more and more time for that "hit", that chance to get just the drop you wanted. Depending on your life situation, this might actually be more devastating on your personal life than gambling with your money.

I'm not sure how this is different from "anything that may be abused is wrong". You understand that millions of people enjoy safe gambles and do so responsibly. Games of chance are fun, digital or otherwise. I'm genuinely not sure what to say because the suggestion that Diablo may be inherently immoral is such a profoundly bizarre statement it seems obvious in its absurdity.

 

[Sami+]

Warner has 500+ employess in Montreal who haven't put out fuck all in years. Would we, as a community, rather them gut that studio and build it back up once they actually have a major project deep in production or accept microtransactions and DLC in Shadow of War to offset the millions of dollars WB has burnt there?

It's not my fault that Warner has put their developers in that situation, nor is it my responsibility to pay ransom to Warner for the sake of their employee's livelihoods. Maybe the top brass could stop worrying about lining their own pockets for enough seconds to improve their employees' job security.

I'm not sure how this is different from "anything that may be abused is wrong". You understand that millions of people enjoy safe gambles and do so responsibly. I'm genuinely not sure what to say because the suggestion that Diablo may be inherently immoral is such a profoundly bizarre statement it seems obvious in its absurdity.

Gambling is also very heavily federally regulated because it can easily be abused.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'm conflicted on this as both a consumer advocate and a tech worker, but the lynch pin in my opinion is the massive layoff that still happen after a successful game. Video game companies have to care about profits, but it's becoming increasingly clear that that's the only thing they care about. Everything else isn't just secondary, it's a basically irrelevant. This is why everyone I know who went into the games industry left pretty quickly. It's a hell hole for developers.

That's because devs never got the chance to unionize.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Gambling is also very heavily federally regulated because it can easily be abused.

Not sure what that has to do with standard loot games. As I said, the argument sounds close to 'anything that may be abused is immoral', which is absurd.

 

[Sami+]

That's because devs never got the chance to unionize.

Imo this needs to change soon because there's no way this bubble isn't going to burst as it is.

 

[Dick Justice]

Jesus fucking christ. If you don't think a game is a good value proposition, don't buy it. It is really that simple. No company has any obligation to sell things only at the price and in the format you think are acceptable, just as you have no obligation to purchase any given consumer entertainment product.

If we were talking about basic necessities like food, basic medical care, housing, etc then the mouth-frothing rage and chest-thumping indignation might at least be vaguely commensurate to the severity of the issue at hand. But this we are talking about consumer entertainment in an economy that is drowning in consumer entertainment products at every imaginable price point. The entitlement and territoriality that "gamers" display over shit like this is just unhinged.

It's amusing that you're saying this without a hint of irony. You're a person bitching about others making their voices heard about shitty corporate behaviour. Some people really get so hot and bothered by the very idea of people not shoving their heads up publishers' assholes and asking for seconds. If it hurts your feelings so much, don't participate in discussions regarding it. No obligation, right?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Activision can afford it and Destiny is successful. They aren't some small struggling company, if they couldn't pay 750 people they wouldn't in the first place.

I have no idea what you're arguing here.

It takes 750 people to make a game like Destiny now, if it took fewer, Bungie and Activision would hire fewer because they're trying to make as much money as possible.

 

[Sami+]

Not sure what that has to do with standard loot games. As I said, the argument sounds close to 'anything that may be abused is immoral', which is absurd.

Then it's a good thing that isn't the argument. Nobody's talking about a nebulous "anything", we're talking about a specific thing and one of the reasons some claim it to be immoral is because it can (and already has been) abused.

I have no idea what you're arguing here.

It takes 750 people to make a game like Destiny now, if it took fewer, Bungie and Activision would hire fewer because they're trying to make as much money as possible.

If they couldn't afford to make a game like Destiny we wouldn't be playing Destiny.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's worth noting, that, it looks from my read of the data that profitability started increasing in ~2014, which is around the time that the big players started playing around with microtransactions in AAA titles.

Does anyone remember 2014? It was so barren that Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor was the the unanimous game of the year (it's a good game, don't get me wrong, but would probably miss the top 10 of many gamers' if it were released in 2017). My data indicates that EA was hemorrhaging money, less than they had a few years earlier, but still pretty badly.

And so, investment in AAA development was non-existent, as half the publishers pivoted to mobile or various other f2p schemes, banking on the next generation of consoles being the last one, much less supported than the previous ones. With their backs to the wall, Microsoft proposed eliminating used game sales altogether, only to be sufficiently chastened by their userbase. Game development costs were trending up, and up, and up, with no clear end in sight and no clear view of how you were even supposed to manage the thousand man teams that would be required to make them, much less finance them. As a result, 2014 was pretty indisputably the worst year for AAA game development we've ever seen.

Then they stuck microtransactions into games, some of them were popular and profitable, and the slow gears of industry started pivoting back towards AAA development. Three years later, by 2017, AAA development has never been more financially secure, or produced games of such a high caliber. It's night and day compared to three years ago.

If 2014 is what AAA looks like sans microtransactions, and 2017 is what it looks like with them, I know which world I'm choosing.

The defining games of 2017:

-Zelda Breath of the Wild, some amiibos, started development in 2011.
-Super Mario Odyssey, some amiibos.
-Nier Automata, no MCs,
-Horizon Zero Dawn, no MCs, started development back in 2011.
-Destiny 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Crash Bandicoot, no MCs.
-Injustice 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Persona 5
-Splatoon 2, some amiibos.

IDK, maybe Wolfenstein 2 will have a lot of microtransaction garbage along with a few other games, but the games released so far that are going to end up on GotY lists did not start development because of microtransactions.

 

[Joelstinton14]

My favourite part of the video is Jim expressing that its the Tripple Ayyy publishers raking in the most dough gorging on all the practices of season pass, separate DLC, 3+ game tiers of bronze silver and gold, merchandising, underpaying voice actors, microtransactions, loot boxes and tax haven escapes.

You'd expect the smaller indies to be attempting some of this shit to genuinely make a buck.

But, Tripple Ayyy are like pigs at a trough never fucking content.

Edit: here's also a fairly applicable post from the shadow of war loot box grind thread on publishers and their profit after taxes and everything.

If you take Activision and EA out of that equation i don't think that really supports your claim. Square Enix made just enough to make a new game and market it. Thats it. And we're talking about one of the biggest and recongisable publishers and developer out there. It may seem a lot, but for every battlefront, theres a Mirror's Edge or Titantfall 2. I think the example you use shows how volatile game development is rather than supports a claim that companies are making millions of dollars. It is not sustainable at all. I would imagine that most of the profit other companies made are driven by one or two titles as well. (Bringing up battlefront again, it probably sold 3 times the amount it needed to break even)

 

[Lanrutcon]

The defining games of 2017:

-Zelda Breath of the Wild, some amiibos, started development in 2011.
-Super Mario Odyssey, some amiibos.
-Nier Automata, no MCs,
-Horizon Zero Dawn, no MCs, started development back in 2011.
-Destiny 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Crash Bandicoot, no MCs.
-Injustice 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Persona 5
-Splatoon 2, some amiibos.

IDK, maybe Wolfenstein 2 will have a lot of microtransaction garbage along with a few other games, but the games released so far that are going to end up on GotY lists did not start development because of microtransactions.

[We have detected that you do not own a gaming PC from your poorly constructed list of year-defining games. Would you like to try again? Y/N]

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's folks like yourself that are the reason that AAA publishers follow a trend until they've buried it. One thing is successful? That means we ALL have to do it, whether or not it's sensible for the project and for the game's budget.

Successful games tend to have pretty good ideas about game design. That has happened way less this gen since devs put their spin on a open world games which is way more free compared to last gen where the big thing was linear cinematic TPS games which is incredibly limiting from a design perspective. So you absolutely aren't getting the same experiences. Playing BOTW, followed by Horizon Zero Dawn, followed by AC:Origins will all feel vastly different in terms of gameplay feel and aesthetics despite the fact that all three games have you climb a tower at some point to reveal the geography of the map.

I think this needs to be said, in case people clearly don't understand: not every game has to follow the example of the last most successful one as though it were the only way to achieve success and make some god-damn money.

And yet we see it all the time and it's part of the reason WHY AAA publishers go out of their way to keep up with the Joneses, both in money spent on spectacle and on the cynical cash-grabs to make it all back. We have more studios collapsing under the weight of this now than at any point in the industry's history and some of the lowest-paid workers to shave costs because of this dire necessity to be flashier and more "realistic" than ever.

Read above.

Not even big Hollywood studios are so stupid as to think that everything they make can be a fucking blockbuster. Imagine if the next Judd Apatow film HAD TO cost $150 million to make because everyone else was doing it. You'd laugh yourself stupid at that. But in the game industry? That's a Tuesday in any publisher's boardroom. Thank god the industry finally has a thriving indie scene.

And thank god triple A games are more profitable and varied than ever.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

[We have detected that you do not own a gaming PC from your poorly constructed list of year-defining games. Would you like to try again? Y/N]

PUBG doesn't count because I didn't find it on GameRankings due to it being in early access!

D:

But we could fight over whether or not PUBG counts as AAA or not too.

Divinity 2 has no MCs either.

 

[Hyun Sai]

Good video overall, but the shader stuff in Destiny 2 is a non issue. After one month I've got at least 20 times more shaders (at least) than I had in one year of Destiny 1, and I can customize parts of the armor unlike before. In fact, I had my doubts at launch, but now I largely prefer the new system as I got much more variety than before without spending a cent.

 

[patapuf]

The defining games of 2017:

-Zelda Breath of the Wild, some amiibos, started development in 2011.
-Super Mario Odyssey, some amiibos.
-Nier Automata, no MCs,
-Horizon Zero Dawn, no MCs, started development back in 2011.
-Destiny 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Crash Bandicoot, no MCs.
-Injustice 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Persona 5
-Splatoon 2, some amiibos.

IDK, maybe Wolfenstein 2 will have a lot of microtransaction garbage along with a few other games, but the games released so far that are going to end up on GotY lists did not start development because of microtransactions.

And only 2 of those is a top 10 seller this year. Maybe 3

What enthusiasts like and the audience big publishers cater to most rarely overlaps.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Imo this needs to change soon because there's no way this bubble isn't going to burst as it is.

Another problem is that game development isn't centralized.

Almost all films that matter are produced in Hollywood or the UK where laws for protections exist. Almost all television shows that matter are produced in Hollywood, New York, Vancouver, or the UK. Also where laws for protections exist.

Game development is very decentralized. You have developers making games that matter all over the world. It's much harder to enforce fair labor standards across a dozen plus countries. I don't know how viable import laws would be requiring any imported game to be produced under the same standards as those produced in America, but America would need standards to begin with.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

And only 2 of those is a top 10 seller this year. Maybe 3

What enthusiasts like and the audience big publishers cater to most rarely overlaps.

Umm, all of those games are huge sellers except Nier and Persona, which will still end up at around 3 million.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The main shitty lootbox games this holiday season are Battlefront 2 and Forza 7 and Shadow of War.

... Do people really think these sequels wouldn't have been made without microtransactions.

I just see very few games released in 2017 that were greenlight because they could make more with MCs.

 

[WHM-6R]

Its fascinating to me that he's still running with Ars bad info on how Forza mods work, still making false argument that content has been removed from Forza and stashed in the crates ala destiny 2 shaders. Its just not true. Its almost like he cares more about catering to gamer entitlement and the internet outrage mob to fill his patreon than he does presenting correct information.

/smh.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Not in the UK, either.

During the PS3 era, new AAA games would be £39.99. This gen, the prices went up to £49.99, sometimes you can find a decent price on release at £45. Add another tenner on each price for the digital versions, which are always priced higher than their supposedly more expensive to produce retail versions so as to not upset Game or other dinosaur retail stores.

Haven't digital PC games vastly gone up in price as well? Looking at a few upcoming/recent games on Steam ARK is about £50, CIV V is £50, Vampyr is £45, Wildlands is £45 etc. I thought the the average sort of price for a PC game used to be around £35, with the console versions at the higher £45+ price point. PC games didn't used to be the same price as console versions did they?

 

[patapuf]

Umm, all of those games are huge sellers except Nier and Persona, which will still end up at around 3 million.

No COD, FIFA, Madden, Battlefront, GTA etc.

Most of the best selling titles are also the ones with the worst MT's.

Also, all of the big PC games work on similar models. PUBG is the one exception but paid for boxes are announced for release

 

[Audioboxer]

Jesus fucking christ. If you don't think a game is a good value proposition, don't buy it. It is really that simple. No company has any obligation to sell things only at the price and in the format you think are acceptable, just as you have no obligation to purchase any given consumer entertainment product.

If we were talking about basic necessities like food, basic medical care, housing, etc then the mouth-frothing rage and chest-thumping indignation might at least be vaguely commensurate to the severity of the issue at hand. But this we are talking about consumer entertainment in an economy that is drowning in consumer entertainment products at every imaginable price point. The entitlement and territoriality that "gamers" display over shit like this is just unhinged.

Ah yes, the good ole "did you know there are starving children in the world?" deflection debate tactic. Please stop talking about something that I don't want you talking about.

It's almost as if you forgot you were posting on a hardcore videogame forum, not the forums of the UN. Or, you simply do not like seeing gamers criticise the practices of what I presume might include some of your favourite devs/publishers and you are reacting hostile to their feelings being hurt... over millions/billions of revenue. The PR teams feelings might get hurt, but I can assure you the CEOs do not really care about a Jim Sterling video.

Well, unless you are Konami that is.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

No COD, FIFA, Madden, Battlefront, GTA etc.

Most of the best selling titles are also the ones with the worst MT's.

Also, all of the big PC games work on similar models. PUBG is the one exception but paid for boxes are announced for release

I think FIFA and Madden came out in 2014 too.

The entire argument was "2017 is a better year for gaming than 2014 because MCs" Which seems extremely questionable based on... The games released in 2017 that make 2017 > 2014

 

[Nick_C]

The main shitty lootbox games this holiday season are Battlefront 2 and Forza 7 and Shadow of War.

... Do people really think these sequels wouldn't have been made without microtransactions.

I just see very few games released in 2017 that were greenlight because they could make more with MCs.

It's more than just lootboxes. It's those and premium in-game currencies. There's also CoD: WWII, NBA2K18, FIFA 18, Destiny 2, et cetera. AC: Origins is an unknown as of this moment. It's the biggest franchises with the most market appeal.

I don't know anyone here arguing that a game is being greenlit simply because they can add micrtransacions to them. We're talking million+ unit sellers. Games that will, more than likely, recoup their cost on day one, even with a $60 price tag. That's not even taking into account the holiday window, which most of these games are centered around.

Also, when you write "MCs" are you referring to microtransactions?

 

[WHM-6R]

Noticed too Jim's starting complaining about things that have "no upper limit" to money that can be made put into games. does he not understand what the purpose of these companies are?

Also it does make me curious as to what upper limit he's placed on his patreon.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's more than just lootboxes. It's those and premium in-game currencies. There's also CoD: WWII, NBA2K18, FIFA 18, Destiny 2, et cetera. AC: Origins is an unknown as of this moment. It's the biggest franchises with the most market appeal.

I don't know anyone here arguing that a game is being greenlit simply because they can add micrtransacions to them. We're talking million+ unit sellers. Games that will, more than likely, recoup their cost on day one, even with a $60 price tag. That's not even taking into account the holiday window, which most of these games are centered around.

Also, when you write "MCs" are you referring to microtransactions?

Yes, because I'm on my phone and that word is very long

 

[Nick_C]

Yes, because I'm on my phone and that word is very long

Not taking potshots at you, but every time I read MC I think main character or master of ceremonies. Two of the most common abbreviations I've seen are MTs or MTX. I think it might be a little easier for others to follow the conversation if we stuck to the most commonly accepted abbreviations. Far be it from me to tell you waht to do, though.

Write it however you're most comfortable writing it..

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Jim's perspective of the industry chasing technical and graphical benchmarks on their own is a bit off the mark in my opinion. The fanbase most definitely demands the leaps we see every generation. People salivate over the minuet detail poured into every game and respond to it, thus others follow suit.

GAF isn't the public at large, though. Most people don't care about a low-res texture somewhere.

That said, it's obvious that high-production-values games like Shadow of Mordor or The Witcher 3 and yes, GTA V wouldn't have been as hugely popular and best-sellers if they had low-budget graphics.

I don't know if using Minecraft and PUBG are fair examples, since they are particular cases.

I always thought royalties was distributed to the devs, not the writers. Didn't know this used to be different.

So what do devs get if not royalties?

Salaries.

Spoiler

Mediocre ones.

The defining games of 2017:

-Zelda Breath of the Wild, some amiibos, started development in 2011.
-Super Mario Odyssey, some amiibos.
-Nier Automata, no MCs,
-Horizon Zero Dawn, no MCs, started development back in 2011.
-Destiny 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Crash Bandicoot, no MCs.
-Injustice 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Persona 5
-Splatoon 2, some amiibos.

IDK, maybe Wolfenstein 2 will have a lot of microtransaction garbage along with a few other games, but the games released so far that are going to end up on GotY lists did not start development because of microtransactions.

Add Nioh to the list. No microtransactions.

 

[Maximo]

The defining games of 2017:

-Zelda Breath of the Wild, some amiibos, started development in 2011.
-Super Mario Odyssey, some amiibos.
-Nier Automata, no MCs,
-Horizon Zero Dawn, no MCs, started development back in 2011.
-Destiny 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Crash Bandicoot, no MCs.
-Injustice 2, would have been developed without MC revolution.
-Persona 5
-Splatoon 2, some amiibos.

IDK, maybe Wolfenstein 2 will have a lot of microtransaction garbage along with a few other games, but the games released so far that are going to end up on GotY lists did not start development because of microtransactions.

Haven"t played a single one not because they are bad games just there are way more interesting indie games.

 

[MrHoot]

GAF isn't the public at large, though. Most people don't care about a low-res texture somewhere.

That said, it's obvious that high-production-values games like Shadow of Mordor or The Witcher 3 and yes, GTA V wouldn't have been as hugely popular and best-sellers if they had low-budget graphics.

I don't know if using Minecraft and PUBG are fair examples, since they are particular cases.


Salaries.

Spoiler

Mediocre ones.

Add Nioh to the list. No microtransactions.

Not only that, Nioh got insanely good post-launch support.

And in that list, we also tend to ignore indies (mostly just out of principle due to their smaller sizes) but when you get games like senua's sacrifice for 30 bucks, cuphead for 20, and many others that offer great values for usually a 3rd of the price of AAA games, it's a hard pill for me to swallow as to how major publishers decide how the money is spent/gained

 

[NathanS]

I'm willing to be proven wrong about this, but I just haven't seen any evidence that whales' lives are being ruined like this. I knew a guy that gambled away rent money that he'd managed to scrounge up on four separate occasions - for the same month! Thankfully he eventually went rehab.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php?page=2

There are ton more stories out there, this shit in game is ruining lives