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[_Alkaline_]

You could argue that better graphics and audio also improve immersion and that elaborate control schemes involving much movement could detract from it.
However, one thing is certain, nobody knows for sure. We'll only know once the Wii is released and the initial novelty of it has worn off.

I understand your first point, but how can movements be less immersive than pressing a button.

Swinging the controller to swing a racquet, or press A to swing a racquet. Which is more immersive?

 

[darthbane2k]

You could argue that better graphics and audio also improve immersion and that elaborate control schemes involving much movement could detract from it.
However, one thing is certain, nobody knows for sure. We'll only know once the Wii is released and the initial novelty of it has worn off.

Agreed. It depends on interpretations.
However I kind of already know what the wii is capable of. Having played it for 5 hours at a press event.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Agreed. It depends on interpretations.
However I kind of already know what the wii is capable of. Having played it for 5 hours at a press event.

Wow, what were your thoughts overall?

 

[Kabouter]

Swinging the controller to swing a racquet, or press A to swing a racquet. Which is more immersive?

Look to Dragonball Z Budokai 2 for the Wii and you will find your answer.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Look to Dragonball Z Budokai 2 for the Wii and you will find your answer.

I see what you're saying, but I think you're getting intuitive and immersive mixed up.

DBZ on Wii is definitely not intuitive - in fact, it's reportedly quite clumsy. But the large movements, from what I've read, do not take away from immersion.

 

[Kabouter]

I see what you're saying, but I think you're getting intuitive and immersive mixed up.

DBZ on Wii is definitely not intuitive - in fact, it's reportedly quite clumsy. But the large movements, from what I've read, do not take away from immersion.

When you have to work around a complex and clumsy control scheme, immersion decreases.
You're not fully immersed in the game when you're struggling with the controls.

 

[Crackerman16]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion....when it is actually based around facts.
The rubbish you spewed like "Wii has graphics only slightly above PS2"
exposes you for the troll/sony fanboy that you are.

Not really sure why I'm even bothering to respond to someone like you, but I've got some time this morning, so here goes...

First off, please quote me correctly if you're going to quote me. Just because I said: "...want a system that has slightly better graphics than a PS2." makes me a troll/Sony fanboy? Good one.

I actually hope that Nintendo succeeds with the Wii. They're always taking chances with new, sometimes crazy ideas and innovations. But they cannot compete graphically with X360 or PS3. In fact, quality last gen PS2 games looks better than most of Wii's offerings right now. That's why I made that comment, but I guess you'll flame me regardless of what I say from now on.

1) You keep on taking digs at 360 for not having a 'free' online service like PS3.But do any of us at this stage know how 'free' PS3 online will actually be? Judging by their constant lies and spin as of late, we cant trust a damn thing they say until we see the finished product.

Ok, so I'm sure YOU "know how 'free' PS3 online will actually be" too, right? Judging from Sony's online features with PS2, yes, everything has been FREE. So I have no reason to not believe in what they say about PS3's free online service. You're just bashing me and Sony when your just being pessimistic and trying to predict the future. Hypocrite? You bet ya.

2) The Xbox 360 also benefits HDTV owners.

I never said they didn't. Reading comprehension?
Notice how I mentioned HD quality movies/shows in my first post when describing PS3? Yup, X360 won't come with that ability. You have to purchase a separte HD-DVD drive for that. Nuff said.

3) GTA and Final Fantasy are no longer Sony exclusives. Xbox 360 and Nintendo DS respectively say "hello!"

Again, you failed. Failed to read where I said "mostly exclusive..." Oh, and I want to see FFXIII and FFX Versus XIII on X360 and DS. GTA series will most likely be released for PS3 FIRST and other systems much later, just like PS2. Nice try though.

4) The 360 and the Wii also have their own "top-notch exclusive games"

Ok, and I mentioned a few for X360. I also mentioned Nintendo's "wackiness," which includes their exclusive games such as Mario to the 10th power. Zelda, Metroid, yeah, I'm so impressed. They're good games but not for me.

5) $600!!!! - sorry couldn’t resist - only joking. You keep on saying how 360 owners are basicly poor people who cannot afford PS3s. Gaming is NOT a class system.

I keep saying what? I never said any of the words you tried to put into my mouth. You're just grasping at straws here, due to you failing at flaming me logically. Notice how I said that PS3 is only if you have lots of money? Yeah, that's definitely a NEGATIVE aspect of PS3. They may price themselves out of many gamer's homes. Again, good try making stuff up that YOU'RE thinking when I never said it myself.


Gotta love retarded flamers who call others trolls, being hypocrites. Have fun putting more words in my mouth and flaming this post with your ridiculous posts!

 

[_Alkaline_]

When you have to work around a complex and clumsy control scheme, immersion decreases.
You're not fully immersed in the game when you're struggling with the controls.

Good point, though the fact that the control replicates DBZ movements more authentically than button pressing does balance this out somewhat.

 

[darthbane2k]

Wow, what were your thoughts overall?

I jumped from game to game during the 5 hours, obviously.

I think Nintendo have this nailed as a piece of family entertainment. The console is really a lot of fun. Everyone had a damn grin on their face playing. Wii sports is a great introduction to wiis potential. I have two words for any nay-sayer - "wii boxing".
The wii controller feels really natural in your hands, when it is given to you, you simply know what to do.
Criticisms? - Truthfully when playing mario galaxy, the controls felt a little complicated and busy. I mean, move mario with nunchuck analog, fair enough - but point with wiimote at stars, coins, shake to launch mario from planet to planet etc - it all gets a bit too much at times. Then again I was a beginner.
Steering with the wiimote is really natural. The 'chaffeur' boss stage in warioware had it nailed to a tee, however steering felt a bit erratic and over-sensitive when playing excitetruck (then again its probably the game itself).
Now Red Steel was a bit confusing, you hold the wiimote with your right hand to control the gun, and the left hand holds the nunchuck which its analog control moves your character. Yet if you move your right arm that too moves your character, or rather his perspective (camera) - red steel quickly became disorientating and I feel ubisoft need to tighten things up a bit.

That is my HONEST opinion. But wii is different enough to be classed as a truly next gen console. The public/mainstream will see it this way, irrespective of its graphical capabilities.

 

[mckmas8808]

Secondly blu-ray. Who really would (out of choice) pay extra for an unproven movie format.

WHAT? Didn't DVDs have to start somewhere?

 

[Kabouter]

Again, you failed. Failed to read where I said "mostly exclusive..." Oh, and I want to see FFXIII and FFX Versus XIII on X360 and DS. GTA series will most likely be released for PS3 FIRST and other systems much later, just like PS2. Nice try though.

Ehm, GTA IV will be released simultaneously for PS3 and 360 and there will be exclusive content for the Xbox 360 version available via Xbox Live.

 

[darthbane2k]

WHAT? Didn't DVDs have to start somewhere?

DVD didnt have a rival format to fight off, it WAS the new standard. Plus the public embrased DVD because they could clearly see its advantages over VHS - they have yet to see similar advantages of bluray over DVD.

 

[Crackerman16]

Ehm, GTA IV will be released simultaneously for PS3 and 360 and there will be exclusive content for the Xbox 360 version available via Xbox Live.

You know the release dates already? Did they officially announce it somewhere? They officially said that it's coming out for both PS3 and X360 simultaneously? Links?

 

[_Alkaline_]

I jumped from game to game during the 5 hours, obviously.

I think Nintendo have this nailed as a piece of family entertainment. The console is really a lot of fun. Everyone had a damn grin on their face playing. Wii sports is a great introduction to wiis potential. I have two words for any nay-sayer - "wii boxing".
The wii controller feels really natural in your hands, when it is given to you, you simply know what to do.
Criticisms? - Truthfully when playing mario galaxy, the controls felt a little complicated and busy. I mean, move mario with nunchuck analog, fair enough - but point with wiimote at stars, coins, shake to launch mario from planet to planet etc - it all gets a bit too much at times. Then again I was a beginner.
Steering with the wiimote is really natural. The 'chaffeur' boss stage in warioware had it nailed to a tee, however steering felt a bit erratic and over-sensitive when playing excitetruck (then again its probably the game itself).
Now Red Steel was a bit confusing, you hold the wiimote with your right hand to control the gun, and the left hand holds the nunchuck which its analog control moves your character. Yet if you move your right arm that too moves your character, or rather his perspective (camera) - red steel quickly became disorientating and I feel ubisoft need to tighten things up a bit.

That is my HONEST opinion. But wii is different enough to be classed as a truly next gen console. The public/mainstream will see it this way, irrespective of its graphical capabilities.

Thanks heaps mate. Was this a Wii Party or something? Was Red Steel a recent version or the E3 one?

 

[_Alkaline_]

You know the release dates already? Did they officially announce it somewhere? They officially said that it's coming out for both PS3 and X360 simultaneously? Links?

 

[Yoboman]

Be careful with that statement. PSP costs more than DS, but DS is the most popular and loved system of the two.

PS3 will provide better aural and visual experiences, but in terms of gameplay, that is yet to be seen.

Well, I'd say you're getting what you pay for with PSP and DS aswell. I was never addressinbg popularity though.

 

[Kabouter]

You know the release dates already? Did they officially announce it somewhere? They officially said that it's coming out for both PS3 and X360 simultaneously? Links?

October 16th 2007. For both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
Announced at E3 2006

 

[_Alkaline_]

Well, I'd say you're getting what you pay for with PSP and DS aswell. I was never addressinbg popularity though.

I realise that.

It's just that you were implying that the greater the cost, the better the quality. The DS shows this is not always the case.

 

[mckmas8808]

DVD didnt have a rival format to fight off, it WAS the new standard. Plus the public embrased DVD because they could clearly see its advantages over VHS - they have yet to see similar advantages of bluray over DVD.

Do you know how long it took for DVD as a medium to be excepted? And didn't VCDs compete with DVDs for a short time?

 

[darthbane2k]

First off, please quote me correctly if you're going to quote me. Just because I said: "...want a system that has slightly better graphics than a PS2." makes me a troll/Sony fanboy? Good one.

When you use such a gross exaggeration to merely support your trolling, then yes - you are a fanboy.

I actually hope that Nintendo succeeds with the Wii.

No you dont.

they cannot compete graphically with X360 or PS3.

You mean the WII cannot compete graphically with the PS3? Nintendo are far capable of producing a technologically superior console. N64 and Gamecube had 'better graphics' than PS1 and PS2 respectively. You can also argue that The Wii controller teechnology is far more superior than the dual shock(less) -redux offering from Sony.

Ok, so I'm sure YOU "know how 'free' PS3 online will actually be" too, right? Judging from Sony's online features with PS2, yes, everything has been FREE. So I have no reason to not believe in what they say about PS3's free online service.

Thats one heck of an assumption. How sophisticated was PS2's online features? You have no reason not to believe Sony?? I can give you a dozen. As far as telling the truth goes, Sony is as straight as a circle.

Notice how I mentioned HD quality movies/shows in my first post when describing PS3? Yup, X360 won't come with that ability. You have to purchase a separte HD-DVD drive for that. Nuff said.

The Xbox 360 is a GAMES CONSOLE, it is bought to play games first and foremost. The financial stability of Sony as a company is at risk due to 'Blu-Ray' - it is more important to them that the movie format succeed rather than the whole of SCE succeed (we all know what happened to Betamax and UMD). It is because of Blu Ray that the PS3 is so expensive and has been significantly delayed. How many home cinema enthusiasts or Techies use a console to play their movies anyway? With a half-assed playback functionality? If you like movies, you'll buy a dedicated player.

GTA series will most likely be released for PS3 FIRST and other systems much later, just like PS2.

No it wont.

I also mentioned Nintendo's "wackiness," which includes their exclusive games such as Mario to the 10th power. Zelda, Metroid, yeah, I'm so impressed. They're good games but not for me.

Whether they are for you or not, you have to show titles as iconic as these a little more 'respect'.

 

[darthbane2k]

Do you know how long it took for DVD as a medium to be excepted?

DVD was universially welcomed by the public. People could see the advantages over VHS as clear as day. With Bluray and indeed HD DVD it is not so clear, and the public are reluctant to start their movie collections all over again.

And didn't VCDs compete with DVDs for a short time?

Commercially? - No they didnt.

 

[darthbane2k]

Thanks heaps mate. Was this a Wii Party or something? Was Red Steel a recent version or the E3 one?

This was at the recent European press event in London. It was after E3 but im not sure about red steel - it felt very unfinished.
Was it a party? Might as well have been, with the amount of booze that was consumed!

 

[mckmas8808]

DVD was universially welcomed by the public. People could see the advantages over VHS as clear as day. With Bluray and indeed HD DVD it is not so clear, and the public are reluctant to start their movie collections all over again.
.

First of all you don't HAVE to start your whole collection over again. Second it took I think at least 3 years for DVD to be accepted by the mainstream.

 

[fartblast]

next gen is shit

PS2 + Wii ftw

 

[mckmas8808]

next gen is shit

PS2 + Wii ftw

:lol :lol

 

[_Alkaline_]

This was at the recent European press event in London. Was it a party? Might as well have been, with the amount of booze that was consumed!

Cool.

Just one last question - did Wii games such as Mario Galaxy look very ugly compared to 360 and PS3? Or were they bearable?

 

[plagiarize]

Do you know how long it took for DVD as a medium to be excepted? And didn't VCDs compete with DVDs for a short time?

blu-ray and hd-dvd have to beat dvd. even if they were one single platform, i can't see that happening for years... maybe not within the ps3's lifetime. it's a high end enthusiast platform, and as such will be popular for people with high end sets and speakers, but when i look at blurray/hddvd i see laserdisc and not dvd. if you get what i mean.

edit: just to clarify. i don't think both are destined for failure, i just think that for the next five years, they're a profitable niche as laserdisc was before DVD offered the same benefits in a much more practical and appealing format at a time when most were fed up with VHS, killing off laserdisc.

 

[darthbane2k]

First of all you don't HAVE to start your whole collection over again. Second it took I think at least 3 years for DVD to be accepted by the mainstream.

Not at all - DVD grew rapidly witin three years, but the public accepted it immediately. Its advantages were clear. With Bluray - not so clear. Not so clear at all.

 

[_Alkaline_]

:lol :lol

I think he meant new gen.

 

[darthbane2k]

blu-ray and hd-dvd have to beat dvd. even if they were one single platform, i can't see that happening for years... maybe not within the ps3's lifetime. it's a high end enthusiast platform, and as such will be popular for people with high end sets and speakers, but when i look at blurray/hddvd i see laserdisc and not dvd. if you get what i mean.

Great analogy.
I agree.

 

[plagiarize]

Cool.

Just one last question - did Wii games such as Mario Galaxy look very ugly compared to 360 and PS3? Or were they bearable?

you picked the star of the show. mario galaxy is pretty much unanimously heralded as the best looking game on Wii, and for good reason. while it's not 360 or PS3 level, it's very very nice. a better bet right now would be to look at Zelda (and yes that's a port of the cube game). if that's bearable to you, then you'll be totally fine.

 

[mckmas8808]

blu-ray and hd-dvd have to beat dvd. even if they were one single platform, i can't see that happening for years... maybe not within the ps3's lifetime. it's a high end enthusiast platform, and as such will be popular for people with high end sets and speakers, but when i look at blurray/hddvd i see laserdisc and not dvd. if you get what i mean.

I think Blu-ray and/or HD-DVD have until 2010 to really make a statement. If they don't own half the market by 2010, then all hope is lost.

 

[Yoboman]

I realise that.

It's just that you were implying that the greater the cost, the better the quality. The DS shows this is not always the case.

You're paying for potential

 

[mckmas8808]

Great analogy.
I agree.

I can guarantee that with the PS3 alone Blu-ray will do better than laser freaking disc. Come on guys lets be for real.

 

[_Alkaline_]

you picked the star of the show. mario galaxy is pretty much unanimously heralded as the best looking game on Wii, and for good reason. while it's not 360 or PS3 level, it's very very nice. a better bet right now would be to look at Zelda (and yes that's a port of the cube game). if that's bearable to you, then you'll be totally fine.

You've played Wii, correct Plagiarize?

Yeah, I find Zelda better than bearable.

 

[darthbane2k]

Cool.

Just one last question - did Wii games such as Mario Galaxy look very ugly compared to 360 and PS3? Or were they bearable?

The wii is NOT as graphically advanced as ps3/360 , but NONE of the wii games looked 'ugly'. Not even Wiisports. All wii titles looked sharp, bright, colourful and well presented to LCD HDTVs (probably running through component).

Zelda looks beautiful.
Mario looks great, nice lighting, nice animations,nice framerate, great bosses.

Titles such as Excitetruck look a lot better than you may expect.

 

[speculawyer]

GAF has pretty much unanimously decided that Wii is the future and those other 2 systems are a bit shit.

WTF?

Wii= Cool controller thingy, the usual great Nintendo 1st party games, not that high-power, NO HIGH-DEFINITION!

x360= good processing power, nice HD, great online service, good library of games

PS3= most processing power of the 3 consoles, very expensive, meager launch line-up, unavailable for a while unless you are willing to camp out to get one

 

[_Alkaline_]

You're paying for potential

Visual potential or gameplay potential?

I would say PS3 has the former, Wii the latter.

 

[darthbane2k]

I can guarantee that with the PS3 alone Blu-ray will do better than laser freaking disc. Come on guys lets be for real.

UMD says hello. There are no guarantees.

 

[plagiarize]

You've played Wii, correct Plagiarize?

Yeah, I find Zelda better than bearable.

yeah. at E3. i came away impressed and convinced of the controllers potential... but i fully understand why people that haven't gone hands on have doubts.

 

[_Alkaline_]

The wii is NOT as graphically advanced as ps3/360 , but NONE of the wii games looked 'ugly'. Not even Wiisports. All wii titles looked sharp, bright, colourful and well presented to LCD HDTVs (probably running through component).

Zelda looks beautiful.
Mario looks great, nice lighting, nice animations,nice framerate, great bosses.

Titles such as Excitetruck look a lot better than you may expect.

Cheers mate for the impressions, good to see that Wii, whilst not a huge step up, still isn't a dog's dinner compared to its competitors (as it's made out to be).

 

[Yoboman]

Visual potential or gameplay potential?

I would say PS3 has the former, Wii the latter.

...It was a joke. You know when Stringer sai.... ah forget it.

 

[_Alkaline_]

yeah. at E3. i came away impressed and convinced of the controllers potential... but i fully understand why people that haven't gone hands on have doubts.

Just curious, what do you mean by that last statement?

Do you mean that playing = believing, or do you mean that you still feel the controller has some current flaws that we should be wary of?

 

[darthbane2k]

WTF?

Wii= Cool controller thingy, the usual great Nintendo 1st party games, not that high-power, NO HIGH-DEFINITION!

x360= good processing power, nice HD, great online service, good library of games

PS3= most processing power of the 3 consoles, very expensive, meager launch line-up, unavailable for a while unless you are willing to camp out to get one

Funny. All of those millions of PS2 owners didnt care about 'processing power' this/last gen..

 

[plagiarize]

I can guarantee that with the PS3 alone Blu-ray will do better than laser freaking disc. Come on guys lets be for real.

laser disc was doing fine until DVD basically made it redundant. blu-ray and hd-dvd don't need to outsell DVDs, and due to the fact that there's still a lot of none high def content out there. in all honesty, would you pay extra money to get a film like Happy Gilmore in high definition? yeah the picture will be better but it won't be funnier. now, big sci fi spectales, epics, horror movies and the type, are going to be worth the difference... but then it's no coincidence that these genres were over represented on Laserdisc and early DVD releases.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Funny. All of those millions of PS2 owners didnt care about 'processing power' this/last gen..

True, though more than a few casuals who owned PS2s were convinced their system was the most powerful.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I don't see anything wrong with BD achieving LaserDisc status. Maybe Sony might but all that I care about is for the format to have great movies - it doesn't need to take over the world.

 

[darthbane2k]

Just curious, what do you mean by that last statement?

Do you mean that playing = believing, or do you mean that you still feel the controller has some current flaws that we should be wary of?

Its true. As much spin as it sounds, playing IS believing. You have to have a hands on experience with wii with other people in order to understand what nintendo has been getting at.
This is where I think Nintendo is failing (at least in europe) the public have NOT had much of a chance to experience wii.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Its true. As much spin as it sounds, playing IS believing. You have to have a hands on experience with wii with other people in order to understand what nintendo has been getting at.
This is where I think Nintendo is failing (at least in europe) the public have NOT had much of a chance to experience wii.

I see what you mean.

I agree that NOE need to really try to let enough people experience the console before it launches. The last I heard, was that there were going to be only a small amount of kiosks, due to the fear of Wii remotes being stolen.

 

[plagiarize]

Just curious, what do you mean by that last statement?

Do you mean that playing = believing, or do you mean that you still feel the controller has some current flaws that we should be wary of?

i mean a couple of things actually. first of all, you have to spend some time with the controller to get used to it. i saw people playing monkey ball who couldn't control it for shit. i took to it pretty much instantly, but then i come back from the show, and the people playing it on the videos are doing absolutely horribly. that was true for many games... i knew from my hands on experience that after an initial period of adjustment, most games played great (Downhill Jam did not play great at E3). so, on one hand, 'playing is believing' but on the other 'seeing videos of people all over the place is really going to make you have doubts about how well the controller works'.

the controller works perfectly. no question there. but there's two learning curves we need to be aware of. the developers learning curve of how they take the data the wiimote is sending and turn it into a control scheme, and the learning curve of the player.

i suspect hardcore gamers are going to have a longer learning curve because they'll have to fight their instincts and essentially go against their training. that's going to be frustrating for a lot of people and some won't have the patience to get through it. i know it took me a long long long time before i could comfortably play a FPS on a pad without getting really angry at it.