I knew that when I first started the game and didn't know how early I could get the others, but nothing and I mean nothing was stopping me from whipping enemies with that Cane.
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The start of Bloodborne and how it's freaking awful
- Thread starter Wamb0wneD
- Start date
I knew that when I first started the game and didn't know how early I could get the others, but nothing and I mean nothing was stopping me from whipping enemies with that Cane.
Sure, but since this was my first souls game I went in with no expectations. It was just really disappointing to me.
I also see the OP's point about the poor opening. The developers could have made the game much easier by telling the players a couple things at the start. But they just drop you in to get mauled and it takes hours to figure that stuff out on your own. Seems to me it's an artificial way to make the game seem more difficult--it's a big part of the games marketing. Once you learn what the game is about, it's not actually that hard.
Soul of the Beast
Member
Considered a LTTP but think I've covered everything I wanted to say
Hunter's Axe. Bought the Kirk Hammer as well but haven't felt the need to use it yet.
Haha, Strength build eh?
I think you will love the ''greatsword'', you'll know what I am talking about once you got it.
Seriosly I never understand why people say ''X weapon is easy mode''.
It really depends on the person's play style, in my opinion the cane has a really weak damage output and slow sluggish moveset, keeping distantce and spamming R1 whipping enemies to death just isn't my style.
I prefer dodging every attack, getting around enemy and then attack viciously when the window opens. Which is why I always prefer Saw Cleaver and Saw Spear in the early game, it suits my playstyle perfectly and I seriously can't remember the last time I died to Cleric Beast and Father G or any early game enemy.
(My favorite weapon in the entire game is the Beasthunter Saif, the weapon is literally broken with all three 27.2% physical gems in slot.)
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I don't agree with the first two at all. But I'll add these:
- Beating the last boss shouldn't take you automatically to NG+, it should be manual like in DS2 and DS3
- Framerate drops (or framepacing issues whatever)
- Blood gem system sucks
- Not enough build variety
Minor stuff though, so we're good!
I don't personally think all of the complaints are minor exactly, the framepacing issues and lack of build variety are particularly annoying to me - the former has even stopped a new playthrough or two before they've even began when I've come back to BB from PC games and just couldn't handle the performance - it's just that the game is fucking amazing despite them.
Well it's a very methodical action RPG, I'm not sure what you expected tbh or what you'd add/change. Randomness to their patterns? Stricter time windows for dodges, parries etc.?
I personally like it. When the boss fights are challenging but sort of rigid in a way, you really get to see your own progress. Starting a new playthrough and breezing through the first couple of bosses and areas without dying nowadays feels so goddamn good when you remember your early days with the game. I couldn't beat fucking Cleric Beast without help, and Daddy-o took me dozens of tries.
Well it's a very methodical action RPG, I'm not sure what you expected tbh or what you'd add/change. Randomness to their patterns? Stricter time windows for dodges, parries etc.?
I personally like it. When the boss fights are challenging but sort of rigid in a way, you really get to see your own progress. Starting a new playthrough and breezing through the first couple of bosses and areas without dying nowadays feels so goddamn good when you remember your early days with the game. I couldn't beat fucking Cleric Beast without help, and Daddy-o took me dozens of tries.
Beasthunter Saif is a great skill weapon as well as Simon's boneblade and you don't have to fight those sharks to get either of them.
Tbh all weapons are viable. You really just need the gems. My highest dps is on a build that uses the threaded cane. Why? Because I farmed until I got 27% attack up gems. Again, all you really need is the gems and you can make any weapon in the game godtier.
My only complaints are I would like it to be smoother even with Boost and some damn image quality improvements for Pro players. It really is the worst letdown of the Pro not to have some sort of patch for this game. Just bonkers crazy considering how popular the game is.
Lumpy Onion
Member
Yup. Going back and forth between Dark Souls 3 and BB on my pro is rather jarring. I'm really impressed how smooth they managed to make DS3 with pro patch and would love to see BB get the same treatment.
texhnolyze
Banned
I always run out of them lol. They're super useful.
I thought I was alone. Thank you.
Framepacing & framerates drops are NOT minor. I dropped the game several times already because of those issues.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
I thought the start was great. It's the end (final 1/4th) of the game that is disappointing.
I really don't get this complaint. In all the other souls games, most of the weapon types have the same moveset basically. The only real difference is the look of the weapon and damage. In Dark Souls 3, the only real difference between the broadsword and Astora's straight sword are level requirements and base damage because they both basically have the same moveset.
In BB, not only are their stat requirements but each weapon has its own moveset that you can only get on that weapon making it truly unique. I think the weapons are the best thing about BB. There are no tiers (ie this weapon is better than than weapon) and they are all unique and different and offer a different playstyle so I really don't understand the "no build variety" argument from people. Yeah, you can't duel wield any two weapons in the game like in DS2 but you can't do that in Demons, DS1, or DS3 and all three games have multiple weapons you can use but most just use the "best weapons". Not a lot of people do mail breaker runs but you can do a run with every weapon in BB there are all viable and interesting in their own way.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Up to this day I still don't bloody understand what is framepacing exactly and how I can spot it in Bloodborne or any game, lol.
Imagine a game that sometimes (let's say every other second) will have a frame drop, even if nothing special is going on. That's it.
If you don't notice it then you don't notice it. Carry on.
Sure, the primary weapon variety is better in BB. It's the best it's been in the series. I love the trick weapons.
But there's so much more to build variety than your primary weapon's moveset. Whether you pick the axe, whip or whatever-blade as your beginning weapon, it doesn't change the fact that you're mostly going to be approaching enemies carefully, hitting them a couple of times when you get close then dodging away. Aside from the rare situation here and there, what weapon I'm using has practically no effect on how I approach these combat situations. I get close and I hit them in the face.
If I were to separate my usual Souls builds into 4 distinct categories, they'd be 1. nimble, shield-less melee fighter, 2. tanky melee fighter, 3. nimble, shield-less magic user and 4. tanky magic user. They aren't all equally fun to play as (2 is particularly boring), but they all feel distinct. The majority of the game's battles play out very differently when I'm a magic user compared to when I run around 2-handing a scimitar, not because I could approach the battles differently, but because I have to. They have completely different strengths and weaknesses.
In BB you're always the nimble, shield-less melee fighter. You can approach some (def not all!) situations differently according to what trick weapon you're wielding, but I feel like you never have to.
Of course this has positive implications too. The game is much better balanced, for one - whatever your weapon of choice, it's not going to be hard-mode weak or game-breaking strong compared to the others. But sometimes I miss the game-breakers. I miss pre-patch DkS2 magic, or starting Demon's Souls with super easy mode Royalty.
Disclaimer: I have yet to try out a bloodtinge build in BB, but as far as I understand magic builds in this game, you're gonna have to go through the majority of the game before you can even do anything magic-wise, and even then you simply can't rely much on it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199036702&postcount=109
Framepacing is a fairly simple concept, but yeah, if you don't notice it, you just don't notice it. It's not as obvious as, say, occasional drops to 20-25 from 30 fps, it's more subtle. Stuttering and just the general lack of smoothness.
Yeah, I find the weapon complaints odd for exactly the same reason.
"There is only one axe in the base game instead of having 7 axes that share 95% of the same moveset."
Okay.. and?
Melchiah
Member
The Cane is definitely powerful enough when its fully levelled up, and it's not like you have to use the whip form all the time. It's perfectly fine for fast and aggressive playstyle in the default form. You can also stunlock enemies with it, like I did with Keeper of the Old Lords in the Defiled chalice for example. It also worked better for me against Ihyll chalice's Bloodletting Beast than +10 Saw Cleaver and Whirligig Saw.
Here's its damage input with the gems I have. The second right hand weapon is the Moonlight Sword, which I used against OoK, the only boss I never beat with the Cane.
EDIT: Now I wish I had fully levelled up Beasthunter Saif, instead of some of those six weapons I have at +10. I never really tried that weapon.
Why? The only thing that sometimes irritated me was that you couldn't switch gems, or runes for that matter, when you were outside of the dream.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Well, I can think of a major reason: it's unbalanced and it extremely leaning towards raw physical attack builds--though of course that is just Bloodborne in general.
Arcane/Bloodtinge just really can't keep up or performs as effectively as raw physical builds.
Melchiah
Member
Ah, I didn't look at it that way, since I've never really tried those builds.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Yup. Arcane/Bloodtinge just simply can't compete with three 27% physical attack up gems setup.
I played every Souls game and also had to adjust to BB's different playstyle in the beginning. Everything up and including the first boss definitely takes some getting used to, so I see where OP is coming from. But you'll get used to it and soon you'll advancing through the game at a normal pace. First hours are def. toughest though.
So are you still at the first boss now OP?
So are you still at the first boss now OP?
You are in luck because the Beast Cutter is exactly that. A scaling in STR at +9 and its trick mode is a bad ass whip. Found in
first level of DLC, just do a suicide run
Jimnymebob
Member
That's basically my complaints too. The farming becomes trivial once you reach the
lecture hall
The only other things I can think of are:
- Getting back to Hunter's Dream/warping to different lanterns is a chore. There's absolutely no reason why you can't warp to the other lanterns from that areas tombstone.
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One Third of Umbilical Cord's
Well, I played mostly blind and asked where the point of no return was. At which point I went and
consumed every item I had stashed away to see what it did.
Of course, then I chose submit... But had a backup save.
Of course, then I chose submit... But had a backup save.
Bigboss242
Banned
Spin to win.
It's a fair complaint. The game heavily favors physical damage weapons and it's difficult to make a build that puts most points to arcane or bloodtinge when the tools and weapons that are the most powerful with those as well as the gems needed are available mostly in late game or chalice dungeons. I have a character in NG+ that has all relevant stats at 50 and even then bloodtinge does not seem that great on weapons that support it. Neither does arcane as using
Kos Parasite with Milkweed rune and top tier arcane gems
BB still has Blades of Mercy which when combined with Beast Blood Pellets absolutely destroy all bosses except the ones that move around a lot such as Ludwig.
I think the way weapons are handled in BB is much better than Dark Souls. DS has way too many nearly unusable shit tier weapons as well as far too many duplicates with slightly different stats but same movesets. It becomes a game of finding the right variant that works with your build and hoping that upgrading gives it good stats.
Upgrades in BB are a bit off though because main game + DLC only gives you enough Blood Stone Chunks to maybe upgrade about 4 weapons fully. The insight cost for Chunks at 20 is too damn high when you need 16 to upgrade a weapon to +9 and the Blood Rock costs only 60. I wish they had patched in the ability to buy chunks with souls or lowered the chunk cost to maybe 5 insight per chunk. Even though you can farm them from chalices, again the need to do the really boring chalice dungeons is just annoying.
The game has a number of good farming spots along the way:
- Witch's Abode to Hemwick Charmel Lane lamp (lots of blood vial drops too)
- Cainhust Castle front yard bloodlickers
- Lecture Hall 1st floor (easiest and fastest)
- Mergo's Loft Middle area (most money per run but pig duo can be nasty)
- Cainhust Castle front yard bloodlickers
- Lecture Hall 1st floor (easiest and fastest)
- Mergo's Loft Middle area (most money per run but pig duo can be nasty)
I agree about warping to lanterns, it's a chore to change areas especially with the long loading times.
Third umbilical cord
There's a note mentioning you need three in Lecture Building and how to use them is kinda explained if you find imposter Iosefka after killing Rom.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
That first stretch is pretty much the most difficult bump to get over in the game, and the most unforgiving start of any Soulsborne game, but it's not THAT bad. I'm not a Souls master in any way (I've beaten all of them, but that's about it), and I managed it, so.
Jimnymebob
Member
It just seems overly cryptic, especially for what it's used for. It makes sense in hindsight, but there would have been no chance of me figuring it out myself.
In terms of grinding spots, I definitely used most of them (the Hemwick grind spot is how I ended up finding Cainhurst Castle). I didn't bother with those crazy fast bloodlickers though because they always destroyed me. But yeah, I spent a few hours towards the end shoving my hands up a pig's ass.
As mentioned, there is the Beast Cutter. I like it a lot. It is not a starter weapon though.
Soul of the Beast
Member
I totally understand potential of the threaded cane, it shows it's true power after you upgrade it beyond+6, even without gems. It's a great weapon, no doubt.
I just don't agree with people who act like a weapon is the end all be all when the combat is actually more about playstyle than weapon itself.
There are a lot of really powerful Dex build weapons, the Scythe, the Beasthunter Saif, the Rakuyo and the freaking Saw Spear (which is insanely powerful in PvP).
Would love to update you but I didn't have much time to play these last days. I got my Cane to +2, got the Saw Spear, tho I doubt that's more useful when I'm already at 17 skill. Got 20 vials and 12 stored, hopefully I'll manage to play today to try The Cleric Beast again.
Thanks for all the advice btw, after I found the shortcut the game got way less punishing. I still die sometimes but the leveldesign that opened up so far is already better than that damn corridor. After I beat the two werewolves twice I just started to run through to the Beast though lol, too much effort and vials wasted on these two assholes.
Yeah, didn't play yesterday though and only farmed a bit before that/explored the sewers/ found out how slow poison works. Before I go to that large bridge with all the people waiting on it I'll try to finish off the Cleric Beats though.
Thanks for all the advice btw, after I found the shortcut the game got way less punishing. I still die sometimes but the leveldesign that opened up so far is already better than that damn corridor. After I beat the two werewolves twice I just started to run through to the Beast though lol, too much effort and vials wasted on these two assholes.
Yeah, didn't play yesterday though and only farmed a bit before that/explored the sewers/ found out how slow poison works. Before I go to that large bridge with all the people waiting on it I'll try to finish off the Cleric Beats though.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Build variety isn't just weapon variety. It's the combination of stats, loadout and playstyle. There are enough materials to upgrade several weapons per playthrough, so I don't need to specialize that much.
aravuus talked about this a bit already. But yeah in Souls game the many options you have to create and customize your character loadout will affect playstyle a lot more, and there are more possibilities because the magic system, ranged options, shields vs no shields, heavy armour vs light, etc. can create more combinations. You can be a nimble ninja, a defensive greatshield tank, a two-handing brute, a stealthy archer, pew-pew magic from a distance, or mix any of those things up (e.g. a defensive tank with a crossbow as ranged support, or a nimble ninja with some support magic/miracles, or a pew pew tanky mage, etc.). And all of those have the potential for a very different playing experience.
In Bloodborne it's always gonna be an agile shield-less melee fighter. The possible differences are limited to: slow and strong (str, e.g. transformed kirkhammer/Holy sword), quick and fast (skill, e.g. blades of mercy, saw cleaver), risk/reward (bloodtinge with the Chikage or Bloodletter), ranged support (bloodtinge with stronger guns or arcane spells), and... that's kind of it.
Also, I highly disagree that there are no tiers. I can't think of any reason to use the Amygdala Arm, Beast Cutter, Stake Driver, or Reiterpallasch, and especially none that I can see to use the Fist of Gratia, Ludwig's Rifle, Piercing Rifle. Rosmarinus also doesn't seem worth the materials to upgrade (esp. with how late you get it), and the Church Cannon and Rifle Spear are pretty mediocre too. I mean they can be kinda fun to use, and that can be reason enough, but for tiers? There are clearly superior options over all of these weapons.
Because there are no reasons to ever use any other type of blood gem other than regular damage-boosting ones. It'd be far more interesting if all the dmg-boosting ones weren't there and you could actually customize your weapons with properties like slow poison, quick poison, HP regen, or bonus vs beasts/Kin, etc. But literally all of those gems are useless, making it a very poorly balanced system.
I cut down your post, but this is essentially the reason why I don't think Bloodborne is my favourite Souls game. You don't really get a different play style.
I've played through DS1/2 as a sword & board Knight. A brute with a hammer. A lithe fencer and a spell sword.
They're all vastly different play styles. In Bloodborne, there's one play style, but you either attack slow or fast.
I wish I could enjoy DS3, but it won't click with me ):
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Too bad, DS3 is fantastic.
I agree that it's missing from Bloodborne, though I still love the game to death and think it does many other things better than other Souls games (I think in terms of level design, art direction, and boss quality it's probably the best of the series, best OST and atmosphere too).
MaximusPayne
Member
It's hard to believe you have played through a Souls game 3 times. You are going to get very frustrated the further you progress in this game. It's not for everyone. Good luck to you, though.
Too bad, DS3 is fantastic.
I agree that it's missing from Bloodborne, though I still love the game to death and think it does many other things better than other Souls games (I think in terms of level design, art direction, and boss quality it's probably the best of the series, best OST and atmosphere too).
I think I just burned myself out on the genre. I played DS2, SOTFS and Bloodborne all in one year, and did multiple runs and platinum trophies in them all. Just makes DS3 seem like more of the same.
I agree, being my "not favourite" souls game, doesn't make it a bad game. I generally preferred the Medieval setting to the Victorian/Lovecraftian setting, but it was an awesome and interesting change.
I think the bosses aren't necessarily the best, mainly because I can't remember half of them, but that may be just because I only played it through 3 times.
Guess I expected some AI, a fair fight for both parties, a challenge every time you play, a chess match and not a memory game. I don't feel good at the game, just knowledgeable.
The atmosphere, creature design, and sound design are perfect, but the rest is pretty average.
Just went back and started a new game. Headed straight for the Cleric Beast (after getting my weapons), and took him out with the two-handed axe in a single try. Only used like five or six vials.
Even with the lower framerate/framepacing issues, two-handed combat is significantly more forgiving than in say, Dark Souls 2 because of the ADP fiasco.
Even with the lower framerate/framepacing issues, two-handed combat is significantly more forgiving than in say, Dark Souls 2 because of the ADP fiasco.
Also because the player movement and controls in a few of the other souls-style games (Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne) is substantially better than the player movement and controls in Dark Souls 2
I don't disagree. As much I understand some of the choices made in DS2, I just don't find the combat as enjoyable (even if enjoyable = more forgiving) as the other games. Although I stopped using a shield ages ago.
Scythe was dex.
For the most part yes, but for example, a full Bloodtinge Chikage will outdamage a 27& phys. Of course, you'll want to kill yourself when you're farming the out of shape gems.
All attack up gems were better for Moonlight sword too, compared to 27 phys.
But yeah for the most part it was really unbalanced, made it worse for the stupid low out of shape gems drop rates.
Magic Mushroom
Member
If Bloodborne, easily the finest game of this gen, is average to you, I wonder what you think are good games.
Encounter design, level design, lore, DLC; all class. Also, name me one action game that has an AI that constantly adapts to the player. Fight other humans if you want that.
Yeah, the game is heavily geared towards you... gearing up with strength weapons, especially early on. The "interesting" and powerful dex weapons are gated by late-game bosses and quests. And arcane requires farming high-level chalice dungeons to really match the other classes.
We have different opinions, that's fine. I don't think it's great, you do. There is a huge difference between punch out and fight night. One requires pattern recognition and the other doesn't.
Blowing through the game because you know the patterns is not fun fun for me.
ThomasAnderson
Member
I beat BB but quit after the beginning of DS3. The difficulty was unbearable.
I beat the Cleric Beast! I summoned father Gascoine once but after the werewolf and giant/crow fights he had like 1 hp left and died in one hit to the beast lol. Why wouldn't he follow me when I was running through the stuff...Overly agressive idiot.
Beat it on my own the next try. I'm still not sure whether it wouldve been better to lock on or off. Feels like the invincibility frames combined with the speed of the dodge for locked on dodges are better but then the camera goes nuts. Anyway, finally! Let's hope I can manage The actual father everyone brings up somehow.
And yeah, apart from the first part the level design is on par with DS, I'm a happy camper now.
I was stoned pretty much everytime I played DS, maybe that helped lol. And thanks!
Beat it on my own the next try. I'm still not sure whether it wouldve been better to lock on or off. Feels like the invincibility frames combined with the speed of the dodge for locked on dodges are better but then the camera goes nuts. Anyway, finally! Let's hope I can manage The actual father everyone brings up somehow.
And yeah, apart from the first part the level design is on par with DS, I'm a happy camper now.
I was stoned pretty much everytime I played DS, maybe that helped lol. And thanks!
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Generally speaking, when fighting large enemies its often best to forego lock on, especially when the camera starts going crazy.
The necessity to know when to turn the lock on and off is part of Bloodborne's charm, hahah.
Zombie James
Banned
As mentioned, there is the Beast Cutter. I like it a lot. It is not a starter weapon though.
It feels nice and weighty.
Is this a DLC weapon? Don't remember ever seeing it on my playthroughs.