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[enigmatic_alex44]

People always seem to forget that Square has focused on portable stuff, and they've put out a TON of incredible portable game for PSP and DS this gen, as good as any of their Squaresoft stuff. It's just their HD games that have fallen behind in quantity and sometimes quality; though I liked Last Remant and loved both XIII games

 

[H_Prestige]

People always seem to forget that Square has focused on portable stuff, and they've put out a TON of incredible portable game for PSP and DS this gen, as good as any of their Squaresoft stuff. It's just their HD games that have fallen behind in quantity and sometimes quality; though I liked Last Remant and loved both XIII games

lol no

 

[Somnid]

Square shot themselves in the foot. This is because they never apologized for putting FFXIII on 360. The Japanese public then stopped buying their games because SE was trying to be successful by being an asshole. It's not like in America, or so I'm told.

their handheld games are pretty great this gen, TWEWY, 4 heroes, dq9 to name a few. but their console output are pretty mediocore. i mean 3 ff13 games? really. it should've been ff13, versus and kh3.

at least they've got eidos.

3DS is just about 2 years old. Those are not current gen.

 

[Spongebob]

It blows my mind that they didn't make a Kingdom Hearts 3 for the Wii. It would've sold 10million+, easily.

I actually agree with this 100%.

The demographics that Nintendo captured with the Wii would have flooded to buy a Kingdom Hearts for the Wii.

 

[RangerBAD]

Not to mention DQ9 wasn't internally developed. Horii and Toriyama don't work for them and Level-5 is a third-party.

I actually agree with this 100%.

The demographics that Nintendo captured with the Wii would have flooded to buy a Kingdom Hearts for the Wii.

But not 10 million.

 

[H_Prestige]

I actually agree with this 100%.

The demographics that Nintendo captured with the Wii would have flooded to buy a Kingdom Hearts for the Wii.

Just like epic mickey, right?

 

[Beth Cyra]

Just like epic mickey, right?

Epic Mickey did pretty damn well for a game that got such horrible word of mouth.

Not saying KH 3 on Wii would have done 10m+. that is crazy given 1 and 2. However I do think there is an argument to be made that a quality mainline Kingdom Hearts could have easily done extremely well for Square Enix with the audience on Wii.

 

[Sheroking]

Spoiler

Seriously, I would buy KH3, but not on the Wii.

10 million might be a reach on his part, but I actually agree that KH3 inside the open window on Wii (2006-2010) would have badly outperformed the same game on any other platform. Audience matches, hype would be ridiculous and the install base... I don't think we'll ever see an 80+ million install base on consoles again.

 

[kayos90]

Epic Mickey did pretty damn well for a game that got such horrible word of mouth.

Not saying KH 3 on Wii would have done 10m+. that is crazy given 1 and 2. However I do think there is an argument to be made that a quality mainline Kingdom Hearts could have easily done extremely well for Square Enix with the audience on Wii.

The real question is, would Nomura agree to make the next numbered KH title on a Nintendo console?

 

[Shamdeo]

I don't think it's particularly Toriyama's fault that we're in the situation we are right now. At around the time Final Fantasy XIII-2 was going to launch, they overestimated it quite a bit (leading to the massive overshipment of the game) and greenlit a third before they saw the returns, I speculate.

However, I think another factor is that upper management did a forecast of the next few years with regard to the series -- relaunching Final Fantasy XIV would (and should) be at the forefront right now for to start mending the series reputation and the benefits of a subscription model MMORPG. There's also the issue of Final Fantasy Versus XIII being further off in development than Square Enix would be comfortable with.

You might remember Wada's plan to release one Final Fantasy title a year -- well, I think Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII is essentially filling the 2013 slot. I don't think Toriyama is essentially behind some grand scheme to make Final Fantasy "Lightning Fantasy", but that he is one of the few people at Square Enix that have essentially lucked out during this tough time for the franchise. The Final Fantasy XIII series would be primed for a third game since the team had already assembled and all the gears were in motion. So, take that as you will.

If you're with me in shouting: "What about A Realm Reborn? That counts as a Final Fantasy doesn't it?" You bet your ass it does, but I have to wonder if Square Enix is taking precautionary steps incase it does not succeed. (Which would break my FFXIV-loving heart.) Lightning Returns could be, in their opinion, something of an insurance policy with their console-bearing base in tow. A bit risky if you ask me, since I'm not confident the game will sell as much as XIII-2. Would love to be wrong!

My own gut feeling after interviewing the staff about Lightning Returns is that it's being treated almost like a spinoff -- a notch less than the AAA caliber of numbered titles.

So yeah, I think they're meeting the "2013 Final Fantasy quota" while gearing up for the future: Versus, XV, and beyond. I'm a hopeless optimist sometimes, who knows if this will all pay off? I think the road ahead for the franchise is bumpy, but I think there are signs that within a few years, things could get back on track.

 

[sappyday]

- Poor management of announced games (ie. Kingdom Hearts HD and Final Fantasy X HD). FFX HD was announced at TGS 2011, and we still have no footage or any information on this game despite being an up port of a 12 year old game.
.

I see Final Fantasy X HD but I do think they're doing more than upping the resolution on that one. Why you list KH HD is beyond me when we just got new info and it's coming out very soon.

 

[RangerBAD]

10 million might be a reach on his part, but I actually agree that KH3 inside the open window on Wii (2006-2010) would have badly outperformed the same game on any other platform. Audience matches, hype would be ridiculous and the install base... I don't think we'll ever see an 80+ million install base on consoles again.

Well, toward the end of the window you mentioned, the PS3 was performing better and becoming the platform of choice for Japanese developers. So if it had happened, I think they would have aimed for the PS3. Earlier in that window, you might have been right.

 

[Sheroking]

The real question is, would Nomura agree to make the next numbered KH title on a Nintendo console?

Would it really be such a bad thing if they did it without him?

He's awful.

 

[Beth Cyra]

The real question is, would Nomura agree to make the next numbered KH title on a Nintendo console?

I really don't believe Nomura is attached to any name, never really got the Sony Fanboy stuff that people liked to tar him with. If Nintendo had the right hardware and stuff, it could have happened. I don't see it anymore though, it's clear they are targeting Playstation with the HD remixes and will build on them and have said as much.

Would it really be such a bad thing if they did it without him?

He's awful.

Yes. Nomura is one of the reasons it's so successful. He is one of the huge reasons it even happened becaues he pushed for it.

Not liking him is one thing, but Kingdom Hearts is Nomura and he continues to create characters that people love and want more of. Ripping him off of it wouldn't help Kingdom Hearts at all.

 

[mattp]

their games are crap.

final fantasy has turned to shit and the kingdom hearts series was always a joke. The only thing good they have going for them is eidos.

yep
when kingdom hearts came out it was already the beginning of the end

 

[kayos90]

Would it really be such a bad thing if they did it without him?

He's awful.

You really think Nomura would let someone take over the Xehanort saga without keeling over? Really?

 

[RangerBAD]

You really think Nomura would let someone take over the Xehanort saga without keeling over? Really?

You think he would have a choice in the matter if they were so inclined to exclude him in a production role? He may get relegated to cell phone games as punishment for Versus 13 (not saying the delays are necessarily his fault, but someone has to take the fall). Shoot, Nomura may leave after it comes out and go work for someone else.

 

[kayos90]

Just "edit" the hell out of the KH 1.5 and put it on the Vita. SOLD. lol.

 

[H_Prestige]

Wii audience =/= KH audience

The idea was lunacy back in the wii's heyday and it's lunacy now.

 

[Beth Cyra]

You think he would have a choice in the matter if they were so inclined to exclude him in a production role? He may get relegated to cell phone games as punishment for Versus 13 (not saying the delays are necessarily his fault, but someone has to take the fall).

They aren't doing shit to Nomura. He is the one who creates all the companies most popular characters, he has created their only long running series outside of Final Fantasy and it's his teams that continue to produce content that both sell and get high praise like Dissidia and BBS/3D.

His team was taken for Toriyama's fuck up and the real development on Versus didn't start till but a few years ago. Maybe if Versus comes out and sells worse then Toriyama's shit and gets worse reviews he might start to sweat a bit.

Wii audience =/= KH audience

The idea was lunacy back in the wii's heyday and it's lunacy now.

There is no way to know, we do know that Disney characters and family brands flurished on Wii and it's possible that could have transfered over to Kigndom Hearts. Saying it wouldn't happen is just as stupid as saying it would easily sell 10 million.

 

[Jathaine]

They aren't doing shit to Nomura. He is the one who creates all the companies most popular characters, he has created their only long running series outside of Final Fantasy and it's his teams that continue to produce content that both sell and get high praise like Dissidia and BBS/3D.

His team was taken for Toriyama's fuck up and the real development on Versus didn't start till but a few years ago. Maybe if Versus comes out and sells worse then Toriyama's shit and gets worse reviews he might start to sweat a bit.

Exactly. People might hate on Nomura for belts and zippers but the man is untouchable right now.

 

[kpjolee]

Relying too much on FF and DQ franchises. SE needs another title like Xenogears, Parasite Eve, and Vagrant Story. What happened to KH series?
Take some ques from recent titles like XCOM and revive Front Mission series.
I know SE still produces some good stuff on portables, but I want something other than FF titles on home consoles.
I know it is very hard to take risks when you have some franchises that is guaranteed to sell in good numbers just based on names alone. But SE needs to rest FF and DQ for a little and start making something original. They need next big hitter to stay relevant for next 10 years.

 

[RangerBAD]

They aren't doing shit to Nomura. He is the one who creates all the companies most popular characters, he has created their only long running series outside of Final Fantasy and it's his teams that continue to produce content that both sell and get high praise like Dissidia and BBS/3D.

His team was taken for Toriyama's fuck up and the real development on Versus didn't start till but a few years ago. Maybe if Versus comes out and sells worse then Toriyama's shit and gets worse reviews he might start to sweat a bit.

Honestly, I agree with you. They would be stupid to let him go, but who knows how he feels. Look what FF12 did to Matsuno. Although, I think Matsuno has a low tolerance for stress and doesn't really like a role with all the weight on him. I think Versus is a big question mark. It'll sell, but there are a lot disenfranchised fans. I'd buy it in an heart beat though, but I want more women in it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

their games are crap.

final fantasy has turned to shit and the kingdom hearts series was always a joke. The only thing good they have going for them is eidos.

Yeah Type 0 was a terrible game. I just can't stop thinking about how terrible it is. I'm compelled to play it though. Dunno why.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Relying too much on FF and DQ franchises. SE needs another title like Xenogears, Parasite Eve, and Vagrant Story. What happened to KH series?
Take some ques from recent titles like XCOM and revive Front Mission series.
I know SE still produces some good stuff on portables, but I want something other than FF titles on home consoles.
I know it is very hard to take risks when you have some franchises that is guaranteed to sell in good numbers just based on names alone. But SE needs to rest FF and DQ for a little and start making something original. They need next big hitter to stay relevant for next 10 years.

The highest rated and beloved entry in the franchise was released and then another great follow up beyond that.

Parasite Eve also got an update this gen.

I'm guessing you mean new Ip's, and they actually had several of these as well.

 

[Somnid]

Yeah Type 0 was a terrible game. I just can't stop thinking about how terrible it is. I'm compelled to play it though. Dunno why.

Square clearly doesn't want anyone else to play it.

 

[Davey Cakes]

The fans changed.

People just couldn't appreciate Square's inspired new direction. Final Fantasy XIII was like a fucking renaissance after that Chrono Trigger shit.

EDIT: This was a crappy 6000th, post.

 

[Sheroking]

Yes. Nomura is one of the reasons it's so successful. He is one of the huge reasons it even happened becaues he pushed for it.

Not liking him is one thing, but Kingdom Hearts is Nomura and he continues to create characters that people love and want more of. Ripping him off of it wouldn't help Kingdom Hearts at all.

I like Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 2, and I like a lot of his early work, but dude is on a massive losing streak and it's time for him to go.

 

[RangerBAD]

The highest rated and beloved entry in the franchise was released and then another great follow up beyond that.

Parasite Eve also got an update this gen.

I'm guessing you mean new Ip's, and they actually had several of these as well.

You mean all those outsourced games. ;p Bravely Default and Type-0 staff need to be grown. They could do a lot of great stuff.

 

[Shinta]

So yeah, I think they're meeting the "2013 Final Fantasy quota" while gearing up for the future: Versus, XV, and beyond. I'm a hopeless optimist sometimes, who knows if this will all pay off? I think the road ahead for the franchise is bumpy, but I think there are signs that within a few years, things could get back on track.

It's not hopeless optimism to have a reasoned analysis like yours that isn't marred by unbelievably petty hatred and stupidity. They're putting out games faster, have a fantastic looking engine for next gen in place already, and XIV: ARR is almost done.

All signs point to a positive future for SQEX. People who say otherwise are just trying to look cool online by hating what the cool kids hate. These are the same people that call Atlus the "king of JRPGs" despite their massive decline in publishing and development output this gen.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I like Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 2, and I like a lot of his early work, but dude is on a massive losing streak and it's time for him to go.

Which work was this exactly?

TWEWY? Dissidia? Birth By Sleep? 3D? Because honestly I'm not seeing a loser among them.

 

[encephalon]

Parasite Eve also got an update this gen.

3rd Birthday can't really be considered to be an update to PE and is best played by skipping all scenes, or at least the ending and coming up with something in your head.

 

[kayos90]

It's not hopeless optimism to have a reasoned analysis like yours that isn't marred by unbelievably petty hatred and stupidity. They're putting out games faster, have a fantastic looking engine for next gen in place already, and XIV: ARR is almost done.

All signs point to a positive future for SQEX. People who say otherwise are just trying to look cool online by hating what the cool kids hate.

Are you talking about... console games? If so, while they may be putting them out relatively fast, the quality of the games are suffering for it.

 

[Beth Cyra]

3rd Birthday can't really be considered to be an update to PE and is best played by skipping all scenes, or at least the ending and coming up with something in your head.

Hey I didn't say it was a quality update, though the gameplay is pretty good.

 

[MagiusNecros]

End of the day.

Console Square=Crap

Handheld Square=Strong

 

[Sheroking]

Which work was this exactly?

TWEWY? Dissidia? Birth By Sleep? 3D? Because honestly I'm not seeing a loser among them.

Not a fan of Dissidia or any of the Kingdom Hearts games post 2. Pretty much everything he's had a hand on post TWEWY, I've disliked.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Not a fan of Dissidia or any of the Kingdom Hearts games post 2. Pretty much everything he's had a hand on post TWEWY, I've disliked.

Again that is fine to say you dislike it. However to claim they need to let him go and claiming he has been on a losing streak when he puts out games that sell and get high ratings is complete nonsense just because you personally don't like it.

Look I agree Nomura isn't without fault or problems, Days was made so it proves he is most certainly not perfect. However he does far more right then he does wrong. If he can just choose a platform and get his games out he should be able to produce quality content.

 

[Shinta]

Hey I didn't say it was a quality update, though the gameplay is pretty good.

Gameplay, graphics, music are literally all the best on the PSP in their respective categories. The only thing people have issues with is the story. Personally, I loved that too.

 

[sappyday]

I mentioned KH HD because it's clear that S-E announced FFX HD when they weren't even working on it yet, and were working on KH HD instead.

We don't know that. Actually from what I remember the people who worked on KH HD were a small number of those of the Osaka team, the ones who made Birth by Sleep and Dream Drop Distance. Although I'm not 100% on that.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I see several still disdain Nomura although at heart he is a character designer.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I see several still disdain Nomura although at heart he is a character designer.

Actually fuck it, it's just sad that we still do this.

I want more Nomura/Amano team ups.

 

[Jathaine]

Gameplay, graphics, music are literally all the best on the PSP in their respective categories.

Uh, no.

That's just blatantly false with BBS existing. Far better music in BBS and better gameplay too in my opinion though it is hard to compare them being different genres and all so that's just fluff.

But the music though... oh boy! Actually, Hexyz Force also has better music!

 

[sappyday]

I see several still disdain Nomura although at heart he is a character designer.

I like the guy. He made two of childhood favorite games. He's making the game that I'm most excited about. The funny thing is that I personally don't love his character designs aside from like three characters. He made some shitters (FF7 Advent Children and 358/2 Days) but I don't think he deserves any hate. He isn't at fault for what SE's has become.

 

[Shinta]

Uh, no.

That's just blatantly false with BBS existing. Far better music in BBS and better gameplay too in my opinion though it is hard to compare them being different genres and all so that's just fluff.

But the music though... oh boy! Actually, Hexyz Force also has better music!

I honestly don't think they're even close in the music category, but that's just my opinion. 3rd Birthday is probably the most underrated OST this gen. Give it a listen sometime.

KH BBS has some nice music too, but I'm not a big fan of it. The best KH stuff is in KH 3DS, and it's from TWEWY or Tron.

And yeah, the gameplay is hard to compare. Compare it to any other TPS on PSP though and it handles much, much better. Compare it to Peace Walker for instance.

 

[VertPin]

GILGAMESH beat them up. They are still recovering from the asskicking he gave them.

At least that's what I'd like to think.

You're gonna have to wait till after Lightning and XIV to see if anything good comes of Square.

Right now it's iOS, Eidos, and Enix pulling their weight.

I always look at your posts and it always has to do with Gilgamesh. Your tag suits you well.
As for SE, terrible management. XIII series being nothing like the other older games. Too linear and terrible plot.

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Shitty management + 90's generation growing out of anime

Okay, I agree with this, especially with the bolded part.

EDIT:

This comes up in every "shit on Square" thread. Anime had nothing to do with it.

I think what Prestige was referring to was the convoluted and wacky stories of JRPGs which are also usually in animes as well.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I always look at your posts and it always has to do with Gilgamesh. Your tag suits you well.

Well I am the GILGAMESH FAN KING.

ONWARDS TO EXCALIBUR!

 

[YoungOne]

I think square should give Tabata a shot at a console game. I think he has proven himself with crisis core and type 0.

 

[RangerBAD]

Okay, I agree with this, especially with the bolded part.

EDIT:



I think what Prestige was referring to was the convoluted and wacky stories of JRPGs which are also usually in animes as well.

Anime was great in the 90s though!

 

[crimzonflame]

oops wrong thread