Except that those games were a moderate success in Japan from the outset. The new Suikoden PSP game performed quite poorly.
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The Suikoden Revival Movement
- Thread starter ReaperXL7
- Start date
Except that those games were a moderate success in Japan from the outset. The new Suikoden PSP game performed quite poorly.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
No, I feel similarly, actually--there aren't a lot of perfect soundtracks in the series much like how I'd say an SMT or Persona soundtrack is overall excellent or something. For example, the reason why Genso Suikoden II's soundtrack isn't my favourite at all is because of all of the tracks I plain don't like on one of the discs alone (or a few of the areas if we're talking game-wise). It isn't cohesive at all. Genso Suikodens I, IV, and Tierkreis probably have the most cohesive soundtracks with the most standout tracks in the series, and thus they're my favourites. I just can't say that I feel the same about GS3 for the reasons I've stated before.
GS1 is probably my favourite soundtrack in the series if I have to pick just one.
People who dislike Stupid Ducks are on the list.
Shit cuts deep, daoster. Shit cuts deep.
Oh lawd I can see it happening. Episodic too.
Nanomachine powered Yuber? But I don't agree that Suikoden ended with part 3 or that Konami couldn't make a sequel, I actually loved Suikoden 5 it's probably my second favorite game of the series.
Konami barely even makes games in Japan any more. There's Metal Gear, PES and ... ???
Schobeleth
Member
I absolutely adore this series but unfortunately I think the best we can get now are HD remakes, otherwise I don't really trust Konami as it is to do a new Suikoden game. Whatever happened to the most recent PSP one they did, was it just so bad nothing was ever heard of it again? If we get 2 on the PSN store then that should make people happy (especially me, I don't want to use my disc anymore because I want to keep it mint).
IrishNinja
Member
man stupid ducks are alright
...for real? i mean, like many, i adore Suiko 2 and prolly put it in my top 5, but even in the day/by PSX standards we knew the translation wasn't great (started with "Jowy..."), i cant imagine any real segment being upset with a proper translation, even redoing names to line them up properly. i'd figure most would just be happy to see 2 return in a viable form (god knows i would).
fixed, and that's as a kojipro fan
that's one thing it really knocked outta the park, yeah
this. do they still do arcade or pachinko or any of that? i dont know what they're up to since gutting hudson, but i know it likely sucks.
...for real? i mean, like many, i adore Suiko 2 and prolly put it in my top 5, but even in the day/by PSX standards we knew the translation wasn't great (started with "Jowy..."), i cant imagine any real segment being upset with a proper translation, even redoing names to line them up properly. i'd figure most would just be happy to see 2 return in a viable form (god knows i would).
fixed, and that's as a kojipro fan
that's one thing it really knocked outta the park, yeah
this. do they still do arcade or pachinko or any of that? i dont know what they're up to since gutting hudson, but i know it likely sucks.
Bassmastergeneral
Member
This is without a doubt my favorite series with 2 being one of my favorite games period. I love all of the mainline games and it would be awesome to play 2 on Vita. Though V was awesome, the way the series has been heading I really doubt that we'll see any new entries return to the magic of the first 3.. I'd like to be proven wrong.
See I think this was a missed opportunity for them to create a whole new world with character to span a new series yet still have it based around the things that made suikoden what it is. The main reason I think they keep making these other suikoden games because they can't countinue the story, so what they should have done with the psp game is continue the story from the DS game.
It's not actually as simple as uploading them to the store. Some fail emulation. I've seen it happen a few times, so it's not theoretical.
However, the bigger problem is getting the licenses in the first place. Usually the reason a big company isn't doing it is the business is too small making the opportunity cost too great to mess with. As fans, you and I believe there's a market, but even at its rosiest, it's still a tiny fraction of the overall current business for these large Japanese companies. SquareEnix is the WORST for this. They're just not interested at ALL in talking to companies trying to get this older stuff out, and (with some exceptions) they're generally uninterested in bothering themselves despite the huge trove of Taito stuff they're sitting on. For all the other Japanese majors - we're talking to ALL of them and some things are moving, so hope springs eternal. But nothing is EVER for sure until you see it in the PSN store.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
They gifted Goemon a Pachislot sequel for its 25th anniversary in 2011.
If he lets Sakiyama direct/write/produce and Ishikawa/Fujita do the art, sure.
I played the first game through PSN and absolutely adored it, but as somebody without a PS2 nor disposable income (nor an interest in Tierkreis for that matter), I've never touched any of the other games. I'd love for the entire series to go up as PS1 and PS2 Classics. I can understand why II hasn't been put up, but what about the PS2 entries?
I actually find most of the soundtracks forgettable, and other times obnoxious.
That being said, Suikoden 2 and Suikoden 3 have incredible opening pieces.
Thats only part of it the fb page is just a place to gather fans in support.
The first monday of the month we email konami about the movement and our desire to see the first two games released worldwide on psn atleast.
The first tuesday is twitter tuesday should be obvious and the first friday is facebook friday.
There are plans for write ins and call ins aswell but right now its about gathering support. Destructoid, kotaku, and a few others have already done pieces on the movement.
If Konami liked money, they would release a Suikoden HD collection that has not only the 3 PS2 games but the two PS1 games as well. I'd buy that shit in a heartbeat.
But yeah, I'd love a game that took place about the same time as III, maybe a little before, in Harmonia proper.
But yeah, I'd love a game that took place about the same time as III, maybe a little before, in Harmonia proper.
I would go as far as to say that II's opening theme fluctuated between kinda good and mediocre. III's is absolutely incredible though.
All in all, music was not part of Suikoden's charm in my opinion.
wait...I'm not thinking of the Suikoden 2 opening. I'm thinking of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSSEcgooY-I
One of my favorite video game pieces ever. Beautiful.
It's not actually as simple as uploading them to the store. Some fail emulation. I've seen it happen a few times, so it's not theoretical.
However, the bigger problem is getting the licenses in the first place. Usually the reason a big company isn't doing it is the business is too small making the opportunity cost too great to mess with. As fans, you and I believe there's a market, but even at its rosiest, it's still a tiny fraction of the overall current business for these large Japanese companies. SquareEnix is the WORST for this. They're just not interested at ALL in talking to companies trying to get this older stuff out, and (with some exceptions) they're generally uninterested in bothering themselves despite the huge trove of Taito stuff they're sitting on. For all the other Japanese majors - we're talking to ALL of them and some things are moving, so hope springs eternal. But nothing is EVER for sure until you see it in the PSN store.
That makes sense i suppose, i wont lie in saying it sucks that SE wont release the star ocean games or the saga games for instance star ocean even more so when there are two versions one for ps1 and the psp ports.
Whats even more confusing for me though having no inside experience is when a game like suikoden 2 is on the jpn store or breath of fire 3 is on both the japanese and europeon store but seemingly cant be released elsewhere despite already being released in that region previously.
Either way companies like yours and xseed are great and i thank you for the work your trying to do.
Sakiyama still served as Lead Planner in Tierkries and Centennial Tapestry. Tsugwa, who wrote V, also wrote those two games.
To be honest, I'm not as gungho about giving them the reigns as I used to be.
Yes!!! My favorite game series, and I only discovered it at the end of the PS2 generation. Such great characters -- flawed heroes, complex villains... And characters are the focus in both the writing and the gameplay, in so many unique ways.
Really makes me happy (and feel a bit less crazy) to hear others out there love the series as much as I do.
Really makes me happy (and feel a bit less crazy) to hear others out there love the series as much as I do.
Oh this one is definitely great. I used to call it the "cliff" theme heh
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Genso Suikogaiden Vol 2, but only in small bits.
I thought both Suikogaiden games were pretty decent when I played them. It made me appreciate Nash's appearance in GS3 a lot more on a replay. Definitely a shame that they didn't come out here, but I don't think the market would've given them a chance at all, considering Suikoden's niche status even at the time.
Huh, I thought he was just working on small games now. To be fair to them, though, I felt Centennial Tapestry was a more enjoyable game than Tierkreis from a narrative perspective. Errr, not from a Suikoden perspective, of course.
Well, if not them, then I probably wouldn't be accepting of a lot of others currently there writing a GS game...
Many of us would rather try and fail then not try at all. I know that not all will feel that way though and thats fine of course.
Thats the first goal of the movement
encephalon
Member
Seriously?
I'll echo the sentiment that Suikoden wouldn't be the same without the original people responsible. Suikdeon I & II are where it's at. After that, the series went to shit for me. I thought Suikoden III was one of the most boring games/RPGs I've ever played. I've yet to finish the game because every time I start a character I always find myself struggling to keep my eyes open. It's sooooo slow, what happened to the battle system too? I'll finish it one day, I guess.
This may come as a surprise to most, but I actually got through Suikoden IV and enjoyed it more than what I played of Suikoden III. I get that it has its problems, but I don't understand how it's so much worse/more boring than III. I just think ALL of it sucks compared to the first two games. Suikoden V was decent, but it also had the slowest start ever too.
I really, really wish someone would have localized that PSP Suikoden I & II properly. I can put my nostalgia aside and enjoy a new translation. I just want to play something that doesn't have so many, "..........................................................". So terrible! =D
This may come as a surprise to most, but I actually got through Suikoden IV and enjoyed it more than what I played of Suikoden III. I get that it has its problems, but I don't understand how it's so much worse/more boring than III. I just think ALL of it sucks compared to the first two games. Suikoden V was decent, but it also had the slowest start ever too.
I really, really wish someone would have localized that PSP Suikoden I & II properly. I can put my nostalgia aside and enjoy a new translation. I just want to play something that doesn't have so many, "..........................................................". So terrible! =D
Basileus777
Member
Well, it's the only game in the series that doesn't have a shit battle system. The whole paired characters thing actually required you to use some thought, other than just hitting auto, using your best AOE unite, or spamming your best rune attacks against bosses.
Ship battles was enough to make me until a certain point and only 4 characters in combat was also a step down for the game. It had some other problems but it was still a good game and I don't think anyone is saying that it wasn't. The game I really don't get the astounding love for is Suikoden I.
Basileus777
Member
I don't get the Suikoden 1 dislike. It's not really so different from Suikoden 2, just a less refined version of it. I replayed it a few years ago and still preferred it to Suikoden 4 and 5, so I wouldn't say it's just nostalgia from being my introduction to the series.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Not necessarily. You can still use your best AoE attacks to take enemies out provided that your teammates are in the same line as you. Heck, no, you can still use 1-target attacks and take enemies out with little trouble.
Suikoden games are not difficult by any means. But what I appreciated about them was the respect that they gave to the player's time and patience.
Regardless of the fact that it is not as refined as GS2, I love it for what it is. GS2 is the one out of the two that I know stats and affinities better for, but GS1 served its purpose well in terms of narrative, presentation, and length. You can beat that game in 6-8 hours.
Yeah, I've never understood why III gets a bad rap for its battle system. The other games are all incredible despite their battle systems, but don't get very much of their appeal from battling, aside from how streamlined the systems are in 2 and 1 are (5 messed this up with load times). As Dark Schala says, they might not be difficult but they respect the player's time and patience, which goes beyond a lot of rpgs -- I should say, goes beyond a lot of games of any genre.
Still, all the other games basically revolve around auto-battling or using an obviously better combo attack, and the interesting, very limited spellcasting resources. In 3, the difference between a player who has figured out the system, and a player who is just auto-attacking is massive.
Suikoden 1 also has way more talking at the beginning than 3, doesn't it? Maybe it's been too long since I've played 3. And I suppose it depends on which story you play first.
Basileus777
Member
I'm not claiming that Suikoden 3's battle system was great or that it didn't have those flaws, just that it required more thought and strategy than the combat in the rest of the series. And I liked the skill system and the interesting ways you could break the game with it.
I hated the way Suikoden 3 was structured with the different characters. Coming from such a concise and bittersweet plot like in 2.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Do not trust to hope. It is forsaken in these lands.
Diomedeskun
Member
As far as the strategic battles go, I loved the idea of S3's battles, and I especially liked the fact that you had to actively retreat even in battles you couldn't win, but I agree that there just wasn't that much to do in most of them. S2's battles allowed for more flexibility, but were still rather simplistic. A deeper version of 2's would be ideal for me.
That said, I think my favorite was Suikoden IV, which was otherwise the weakest game in the series for me. While the battles lacked the full range of tactics from the age of sail, there was a great balance of strategy, creativity, and fun, plus the option to board enemy ships and brute force your way to a win. I wish Suikoden Tactics had expanded on the naval warfare. I probably would have finished it if it did.
I loved the concept of the combined naval and ground warfare in V, as well as the scale of the battles, but like so much of the still wonderful game, it just felt rough and unbalanced. I would also have preferred turn based combat.
That said, I think my favorite was Suikoden IV, which was otherwise the weakest game in the series for me. While the battles lacked the full range of tactics from the age of sail, there was a great balance of strategy, creativity, and fun, plus the option to board enemy ships and brute force your way to a win. I wish Suikoden Tactics had expanded on the naval warfare. I probably would have finished it if it did.
I loved the concept of the combined naval and ground warfare in V, as well as the scale of the battles, but like so much of the still wonderful game, it just felt rough and unbalanced. I would also have preferred turn based combat.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Oh no, I didn't mean to sound dismissive. Not my intent. This is what happens when I run on 2 hours of sleep for the entire day.
I loved the skill system. That is one of the things that I like the most about GS3, and I like that they ended up using it in later installments, especially because stuff like Rune affinities are made more transparent to the player when you had to sniff things out on your own with player stats beforehand in GS1 and GS2. When you think about it, almost every game brings something new to the table which ends up being something that should probably be a staple in the series.
As for Suikoden PSP, for example, the best thing that game brought to the table was the dinner aspect (have supper with party members you often are with, the ones you're not with often, etc.).
lol, you made me think of Versus for a minute. I feel like FF fans should publicize the Type-0 campaign more (cuz... I think there is one? Is there one?), or publicize that they're sick and tired of waiting for Versus or something. SE keeping them hangin' for years.Pyromaniac said:
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
That's the thing. If you think that the portable Suikoden games aren't very good, who exactly are you going to get to make a Suikoden 6? The old team is long gone. It's like Phantasy Star or the Shining series - I'd love to see a sequel in the style of the original games, but the companies involved seem perfectly happy to keep making games in a different style.
Its not disliked at all and thats what bugs me. Its just like just because its the first game its outside of critism or something.
Thats the thing I liked about it, they changed it up like games are supposed to. This is why I kinda don't get why people don't say anything about S1 when S2 is just all around better. Its not bad by any means, but its like playing the exact same game with less to it.
Diomedeskun
Member
Ship battles and the first person mode were really the only things I liked about Suikoden IV. The free camera also beat the frequently awkward isometric view in Suikoden V also. The battles were stripped down with no lines and really very little differentiation between characters other than fighter/magic user. This is a problem when you have such an insanely large group of characters. While I liked some of the characters, particularly a number of the villains, the story was weak, the world was dull, the locations were, after the starting island, tiny (the one exception, the final dungeon, was huge but empty) and most of your crew was annoying.
Even the cameo character wasn't as good as his prior appearance. His rune was also severely depowered. Most of the other interesting runes in the series were missing, further contributing to making your characters feel samey, and the game felt terribly barren. While the rune of punishment was somewhat interesting, it often felt too much like a retread of the Soul Eater.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
I think in a interview last year of so they said that they doon't have the technical know how anymore to make RPGs...That's why they outsource that game to Tri Ace and the Tapestry one also isn't it?
I'm not sure whether I want a Suikoden from that like that...
HamPster PamPster
Member
You all have your big Suikoden Revival party, I'll be alone over here in the corner holding the Suikoden Tactics memorial
Shouta
Member
Tierkreis and Centennial Tapestry are both pretty good games with some flaws. They aren't as liked because they don't relate to the primary canon and many people are attached to that. As games that use the most base framework for what makes a Suikoden game though, they both do it pretty well.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Hmm...
This is one of the rare times you'll find me saying this, but the narrative of Genso Suikoden I resonates with me quite a bit, as cheesy as that sounds.
Series spoilers up in this:
I feel like Tir was more believable as a war hero and child soldier than Riou was (rather, I feel like Riou was manipulated by his superiors often, when Tir actually seemed like he exerted some control despite having mostly adults to contend with in his army). At the same time, I feel like Tir's story is far more tragic than Riou's, and his aftermath is one of the less happier ones along with Lazlo's in GS4 provided you didn't get the good ending in that game, and Luc's at the end of GS3. While GS4 did feel like a retread of the Soul Eater, it felt like a lonelier story because it didn't have that sense of being linked so closely with your party members; your suffering felt like it was your burden alone. Meanwhile, GS1, the feeling of loneliness was somewhat amplified because Tir was around so many people but--reading the novels and putting two and two together--he couldn't exactly be around a lot of people because everyone around him dies as a result of the rune in some fashion. GS1's narrative ended up feeling a little more personal in that manner, more personal than GS2's for me. I felt that in some parts, it was just as moving as GS2. There isn't necessarily a super-evil, because the Emperor you're fighting against is still wrapped up in grief and depression over the death of his wife that he let his empire fall to shit while letting his subordinates run around doing whatever they pleased. I think that grey area is one of the things I appreciated the most right next to Tir's story. But at the same time, GS2's villains had their share of grey areas as well. Depending on the day, I like to think of both games as equals. GS2 tells its story better due to better presentation and better depth, but GS1 also had its own story to tell and it was pretty good.
Of course, this is my opinion. Not everyone is going to share it. I don't think that this is necessarily through rose-tinted glasses. I have a lot of sentimental feelings for this game because it is very close to my heart (and I'm sure you have games that do the same thing for you), but I do try to not let that cloud how I feel about it. Mechanically and depth-wise (and hell, even with regards to storytelling because the character animations in that game are top-notch), GS2 is the superior game out of the two sister titles. And that's the best way to look at them, really: as sister titles.
Suikoden Card Stories and the Suikogaiden games simply expand on the universe as needed.
One of the questions I was asking myself while playing GS4 was, "Where is all the vibrant colour!?"Diomedeskun said:
Best part of Rhapsodia? The BGM remixes. You got some Penpe in there, some GS4 stuff, the complete version of my favourite music in the entire series...You all have your big Suikoden Revival party, I'll be alone over here in the corner holding the Suikoden Tactics memorial
I like the game too. I don't feel like a lot of people played it cuz it was linked to GS4. But it expands on GS4's section of the world a lot, I feel.
I can actually buy what you say, its not that I'm mad at people who likes it for whatever reason. It just bugs me that people never say anything about S1 like at all, just that they like it. This is like that super mario 3 vs super mario world argument that people have, where no one ever says how mario 3 is better it just is.
I loved how simple and fast the battle system was in the old Suikoden games. I felt like I & II were on turbo mode while the rest of the series (especially III) moved at a snails pace. Sure, you could auto-battle your way through random encounters, but you can do that in tons of RPGs. Bosses, however, required a bit more attention to your party/rune setup. Suikoden II especially had some difficult boss encounters.
I don't know, I like how "whatever" battles felt in Suikoden games because they always had SO MUCH more going for them (108 characters, castle/base building, mini-war battles, etc.). The random encounters were only a small portion of a much bigger picture so I never cared that it wasn't more than that. I'm sure Suikoden III's battle/skill/rune/whatever system is technically better and more interesting than the other games, but it's so incredibly dull in every other area (from what I played, at least).
I remember picking that little (Grassland's kid?) boy who was the son of some Suikoden II character and only getting so far before I quit. Coming off of Suikoden II's amazing sprite animation didn't help either. I hate (but kind of love, lol!) that early PS2 3D turn-in-place character model shit. The game just felt/looked like ass compared to its 2D brothers. Everything about III just bothered me now that I think about it, lol! I'll finish it one day though, hah!
I don't know, I like how "whatever" battles felt in Suikoden games because they always had SO MUCH more going for them (108 characters, castle/base building, mini-war battles, etc.). The random encounters were only a small portion of a much bigger picture so I never cared that it wasn't more than that. I'm sure Suikoden III's battle/skill/rune/whatever system is technically better and more interesting than the other games, but it's so incredibly dull in every other area (from what I played, at least).
I remember picking that little (Grassland's kid?) boy who was the son of some Suikoden II character and only getting so far before I quit. Coming off of Suikoden II's amazing sprite animation didn't help either. I hate (but kind of love, lol!) that early PS2 3D turn-in-place character model shit. The game just felt/looked like ass compared to its 2D brothers. Everything about III just bothered me now that I think about it, lol! I'll finish it one day though, hah!