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"The Untold History of Japanese Video Game Developers", HG101 bookstarter (£50k goal)
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bishopcruz
Member
When I read this I thought you meant Yoneda and I about had a fit, I was looking forward to that one, as Yoneda is just amazing. Still, sucks for anyone who was looking forward to the Gold Edition art.
The most recent update does not sound promising. More trouble with the translators, and John is starting to sound a bit...err... tense...
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...tory-of-japanese-game-developers/posts/775871
As a backer, I really hope I'll still hold the printed book in my hands one day
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...tory-of-japanese-game-developers/posts/775871
As a backer, I really hope I'll still hold the printed book in my hands one day
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Not familiar with her, but her sister is Agness Kaku, who translated Metal Gear Solid 2.
MikeHattsu
Member
Pretty messed up.
I remember that she criticized Kojima and his writing skills very heavily
MikeHattsu
Member
Ban Puncher
Member
Give them the finger and put the book out.
And dedicate it to them on page one.
And dedicate it to them on page one.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
What I REALLY hope is that the interviewees don't retract their interviews...
I doubt it. I'm sure they won't listen to these random ass translators over the guy who's putting out the book.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if, judging by the severity of this war, some interviewees do pull out of the project, simply to avoid whatever opinion this tussle could cast on the project. On the other hand, John's trustworthy, if easy to anger; whatever happens, the product's going to be worth it.
Just keep telling yourself that.
Oh, okay. Thanks!
Kinda off-topic, but I'm reading this interview with her sister Agness (the MGS2 translator) which is really interesting. Especially her criticism towards Kojima's writing, which even as a huge MGS fan, I have to say, is still kinda justified in retrospective - even though I don't think that the series takes itself THAT serious, anyway. However, when I first played MGS1&2 as a 10-year-old of course my juvenile mind was blown and I found the writing to be extremely clever, feeling like I just learned to look through the world's lies and figured out all the war- and media-conspiracies going on
Nowadays I can just appreciate the campiness of it all, though.
He publically badmouthed 8-4 and made them responsible for a website not reporting about his Kickstarter. Would you still try to support a project like this after the creator made accusations like that against you? I know that I wouldn't.
I'm sorry, but John seems to be very fishy to me. Between blaming 8-4, badmouthing a translator, being unable to provide ebooks and losing the cover artist, I don't buy that everyone but him is the problem - stuff like that normally happens for a reason.
I would be pissed off as John if someone was trying sabotaging my project and abusing their position - contacting people that have nothing to do with this feud.
I must admit, I've not been following this whole saga too closely. I remember John's first post about the Kaku Sisters; while his words were angry (naturally he has a stressful schedule and his time was being wasted), I never felt like he wrote "untruthful and defamatory" posts as Hanako puts it - it seems these two sisters were already harassing him before his first posts, essentially initiating the whole argument (heck, everything was documented).
But I paid little attention, a simple trip up on John's end that would not affect the book.
(probably would have helped if he didn't use their names though)
It now seems they are on some crusade to not only attack John's character (I couldn't care less about this - it is between those two) but to attack the project, a collaboration which includes the many investors who have funded this project and Japanese Developers that have given their time to interview for this book. These attempts to stop this book and contact the interviewees goes too far, it only hurts the backers, so now I am rightfully pissed off at these people too.
I must admit, I've not been following this whole saga too closely. I remember John's first post about the Kaku Sisters; while his words were angry (naturally he has a stressful schedule and his time was being wasted), I never felt like he wrote "untruthful and defamatory" posts as Hanako puts it - it seems these two sisters were already harassing him before his first posts, essentially initiating the whole argument (heck, everything was documented).
But I paid little attention, a simple trip up on John's end that would not affect the book.
(probably would have helped if he didn't use their names though)
It now seems they are on some crusade to not only attack John's character (I couldn't care less about this - it is between those two) but to attack the project, a collaboration which includes the many investors who have funded this project and Japanese Developers that have given their time to interview for this book. These attempts to stop this book and contact the interviewees goes too far, it only hurts the backers, so now I am rightfully pissed off at these people too.
It sounds like John probably received some low-quality translation services (though we're really just taking him at his word about that at this point). That said, his descriptions of the Kakus sound extremely hyperbolic. What have they done to merit being described as "mentally unhinged sociopaths who stop at nothing to destroy someone?" Send a letter to interviewees asserting that they had been defamed and recommending that interviewees make sure their interviews are accurate? That hardly makes them sociopaths.
I also think John's martyrdom detracts from his credibility: his Kickstarter updates being described as attempts to make "the world a witness to my persecution"; talk of his "suffering and sacrifice being for the greater good"; his assertion that the Kakus have dragged "the entire Japanese games industry into a cesspool"; the repetition of "good must prevail" and so forth.
This might just be me, but I think it's eyebrow-raising that in a couple of his Kickstarter posts, John describes telling friends or interviewees about the translation services or the Kakus, then takes their reactions as confirmation of his opinions about the Kakus. If you're going to frame the situation in the way you've framed your Kickstarter posts, of course people are going to validate your emotions about it. That's what an empathizing human being does in a situation where someone's telling them about something they're really upset about. John doesn't seem aware of this, though.
I'm really not that surprised that the Kakus have taken action to defend their reputations -- he's threatening their livelihoods, after all. Assuming the translations were low-quality, that John felt compelled to call them "pure garbage" and "literally worthless audio trash" instead of be more diplomatic about it was going to make something like this a lot more likely to happen. John actually conceded that the evidence of poor translation he posted conveyed the general idea of what was being said, even as he asserted (probably rightly) that the translation missed important details. Calling such a translation "literally worthless" is, again, pretty egregious hyperbole.
I'm sure some of you are upset about the idea of the book not being put out, but that the Kakus want to be assured there's nothing libelous in published copies seems natural to me from their position. If John leaves any commentary about their translation services out of the book, I imagine the book would be cleared for publishing with the publishing budget largely intact, though I'm certainly no legal expert.
That the Kakus contacted John's Facebook friends about the matter (as described in a previous Kickstarter post) does feel like crossing the line. I would also have liked Hanaka Kaku not to have challenged John's competence in her letter, as it doesn't seem at issue here. She has no reason to believe that the content of the interviews has been adversely affected by all this and she should have clarified that when writing to interviewees.
Still, though not all of this is his fault, I can't help but think John brought a lot of this on himself by being so vitriolic in his criticism of the Kakus.
I also think John's martyrdom detracts from his credibility: his Kickstarter updates being described as attempts to make "the world a witness to my persecution"; talk of his "suffering and sacrifice being for the greater good"; his assertion that the Kakus have dragged "the entire Japanese games industry into a cesspool"; the repetition of "good must prevail" and so forth.
This might just be me, but I think it's eyebrow-raising that in a couple of his Kickstarter posts, John describes telling friends or interviewees about the translation services or the Kakus, then takes their reactions as confirmation of his opinions about the Kakus. If you're going to frame the situation in the way you've framed your Kickstarter posts, of course people are going to validate your emotions about it. That's what an empathizing human being does in a situation where someone's telling them about something they're really upset about. John doesn't seem aware of this, though.
I'm really not that surprised that the Kakus have taken action to defend their reputations -- he's threatening their livelihoods, after all. Assuming the translations were low-quality, that John felt compelled to call them "pure garbage" and "literally worthless audio trash" instead of be more diplomatic about it was going to make something like this a lot more likely to happen. John actually conceded that the evidence of poor translation he posted conveyed the general idea of what was being said, even as he asserted (probably rightly) that the translation missed important details. Calling such a translation "literally worthless" is, again, pretty egregious hyperbole.
I'm sure some of you are upset about the idea of the book not being put out, but that the Kakus want to be assured there's nothing libelous in published copies seems natural to me from their position. If John leaves any commentary about their translation services out of the book, I imagine the book would be cleared for publishing with the publishing budget largely intact, though I'm certainly no legal expert.
That the Kakus contacted John's Facebook friends about the matter (as described in a previous Kickstarter post) does feel like crossing the line. I would also have liked Hanaka Kaku not to have challenged John's competence in her letter, as it doesn't seem at issue here. She has no reason to believe that the content of the interviews has been adversely affected by all this and she should have clarified that when writing to interviewees.
Still, though not all of this is his fault, I can't help but think John brought a lot of this on himself by being so vitriolic in his criticism of the Kakus.
See, we have no way to verify which side is telling the truth. And yet, due to his public campaign against the sisters, we've got people publically insulting them. If he's the one who's painting a false picture, I can absolutely relate why the sisters aren't just sitting there in silence. You have to defend yourself against accusations like that.
What they are doing might not be very professional, but the way John manages the issue wasn't, either. Even if the translations were sub-par, as a professional you can't publically insult the people responsible for it. You are burning your bridges and worse.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Man, I'm glad I decided not to back this project. This is turning into a mess.
transience
Member
I don't know who to blame here but I feel good that my money is far away from this situation. Hopefully it turns out great and I can buy it after it's been vetted, but yeah, this is why I like to avoid KS projects until they're complete. Love the idea and love
spreading the word, but much prefer paying for something tangible instead of just an idea from a guy.
spreading the word, but much prefer paying for something tangible instead of just an idea from a guy.
Possibly, but he did include an audio clip of one of the translations in one of his updates and it really was worthless; incomprehensible at times. So his words had some weight.
Nevertheless, like you say, John should keep a cool head and choose his words more carefully, probably would have helped his position a bit more.
HypocrisyGalore
Banned
lol did he actually say all that?
It's hard to take someone seriously (or believe them) when they make overly dramatic claims remarks like those.
If this Kickstarter was going to have issues, I'd figured it would involve the production of the physical book. But this is something else entirely. Did this whole thing start because John didn't like the quality of the translations? For it to devolve into the other party contacting Johns' contacts telling them not to work with him is bizarre. There must be more to this story. People can be petty, but come on!
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
You have a point. I hope this book is finished soon.
chrominance
Member
I dunno, either this guy is the unluckiest son of a bitch ever, he's actually just difficult to work with and blames everyone else for his problems, or a little bit of both. Even if it ends up that none of this is his fault (and honestly I have no idea who to trust at this point), it just makes me more skeptical that I'll ever receive a book. Seems like every update I get for this project feels more unhinged than the last.
Still keeping my fingers crossed.
Still keeping my fingers crossed.
yeah I don't personally see a rosy outcome for this kickstarter if the dude tries to "retaliate" with another florid over-the-top response that ends up weirding out the interviewers instead of helping. this was not a productive update and if the tone bleeds through to his response to the interviewers (which it inevitably will) it's gonna lead to people washing their hands of the whole mess. I sympathize with a need for a venting session but keep that shit private, cringeworthy speculation on the polite reservedness of Japanese culture and videogame dialogue level defamation (dishonourable villainess???) is not the way to go about meeting the goals of releasing the book. I wanted to pick this thing up on Amazon and I'm not sure if I'll get the opportunity at this point.
Who knows what he is on about.
I always thought his style of writing was intentionally OTT and hyperbolic, but now I think he might just have a problem.
It's even weird he himself has interview one of the sisters 2 years ago ( http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku.htm ) and has now got himself into the shit by getting all ridiculous on one of his blogs.
That really wasn't a very good idea.
I always thought his style of writing was intentionally OTT and hyperbolic, but now I think he might just have a problem.
It's even weird he himself has interview one of the sisters 2 years ago ( http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku.htm ) and has now got himself into the shit by getting all ridiculous on one of his blogs.
That really wasn't a very good idea.
You people don't understand. These women are alien villainesses with no morals who represent none other than the force of evil itself. They will stop at nothing other than the absolute and utter destruction of all John ever was or ever will be. Until he is entirely erased from the history of humanity, they will wage their sociopathic war against him and the forces of good, which he represents.
You are witnessing the beginnings of a new religion. Decide now if you stand for good or evil.
You are witnessing the beginnings of a new religion. Decide now if you stand for good or evil.
King Gilga
Member
If I was a backer I'd feel like I'd already gotten all my money's worth with all this drama.
But it's honestly hard to take any of this at face value when the guy is being so hyperbolic about it.
But it's honestly hard to take any of this at face value when the guy is being so hyperbolic about it.
bishopcruz
Member
John's reactions remind me a lot of Vic Ireland. A nice guy in all my emails to him, always pleasant, but do not piss him off, he will pretty much hold a grudge for life. As a backer, I haven't really had much concern throughout the project, though this recent one worries me a little. John has been open as all hell throughout the project, and I'm still hoping for the best.
Reading his posts, I can definitely sense the frustration he's feeling, and a lot of it does indeed seem justified. The sound sample he released was really bad, and if it was my project I would be rather annoyed to say the least. Still, hyperbolic language does nothing but make things worse IMO, and that's just a shame.
BTW people keep mentioning a falling out with 8-4, what is that all about?
Reading his posts, I can definitely sense the frustration he's feeling, and a lot of it does indeed seem justified. The sound sample he released was really bad, and if it was my project I would be rather annoyed to say the least. Still, hyperbolic language does nothing but make things worse IMO, and that's just a shame.
BTW people keep mentioning a falling out with 8-4, what is that all about?
foobarry81
Member
It's not just that he didn't like them. In their eyes he publicly humiliated them on the Kickstarter forum for the whole world to read. Public shaming is among the worst things you can do to a person in many Asian cultures, and certainly so in Japan.
For someone who supposedly is so deeply interested in (certain aspects of) Japanese culture as John is, this seems like a huge blunder on his part too. That is just no way to tackle 'business issues' in Japan, where traditionally you have/had to build a relationship with the other party before you can/could actually do business.
So it wouldn't surprise me if some interviewees would actually agree with those women, and cause him more trouble.
It's not much different in the rest of the world, either. When you publically insult the people you work with, other people will start to think twice if they really want to work with you -- after all, no one wants to be the next one in line who gets insulted to hell and back if he isn't satisfied with the work you are doing. It's not just about pride, either, since posts like his can harm the reputation of the people he complained about greatly.
I think he's emotionally very, very attached to this project and that definitely shows -- but in his position you aren't allowed to let emotions get the better of you. You need to stay professional, otherwise it will look bad on you. And, well, instead of just saying that he's not satisfied with the work of one of his translators and that he will need time to re-translate parts of it, he decided to write a long and emotional post where he did everything you shouldn't do as a professional...
It's especially bad, since I would assume that some of his interviewees are also following the Kickstarter. Do you really want to show yourself that way to the people you want to have in your book?
It could be almost entirely the fault of the person being interviewed that the translation was vague and hard to understand. If the interviewee is vague, then the translation's going to be vague.
The clip would have been more meaningful if John had included the audio of what the interviewee said in Japanese so that someone fluent in Japanese could judge the translation.
foobarry81
Member
Even if he's attached to the project, and even if he's emotional, which all is in some way understandable I guess, what is problematic imho is that he's basically shoving the responsibility of potential failure solely onto others. In the end he is the one who got all the backers' money and trust, and he is the one who hired these women. So even if they tricked him into their sociopathic schemes (which to me is unlikely, but you never know), he's still responsible for any mess that may result from it. So instead of just blaming them, it would be nice if he at least admitted more openly to having made some bad judgments.
This is another thing that really poses a threat to these kinds of projects and Kickstarter in general. People at this point are still willing to pledge for a project like this because the guy claims to be an experienced writer (and he probably is). But to end such a project in a good way you need more skills than just good writing. Like being able to manage a project, or have some people skills which could prove useful if you have people working for you. So we will probably evolve into a situation where being enthusiastic about something might no longer be enough to gather money, as people get more cautious. Which, I guess, is a good thing to a certain extent. But it could also keep genuinely talented people from realizing their projects because they don't have any experience, and people no longer trust their money with them.
He did.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
He's not doing himself any favors by literally writing about how they're trying to ruin his whole life and calling her a "dishonorable villainess", whilst reprinting her letter and the husband's email to him that makes them sound a lot more reasonable than he's painting them to be.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I dunno, I think contacting every single interviewee from contact details they kept hold of to spread a touch of FUD and then also slip in some "pursuing legal action" language isn't as reasonable as I'd define.
He could probably do well to dial the dramatic language back a bit, but letting the world know he was pretty much scammed and almost forced into an NDA because they realised they'd taken the whizz too far is pretty much a "should've done" move in my book. Might not look professional to the outside, but then sometimes thats why the professional world sometimes has its own problems and cold war-esque mutually assured destruction spirals.
Feel bad for the project and tasty tidbits that are sure to come out of the (re?)translated stuff.
Son of Cervantes
Member
Wow, heard about this project last year, but as a rule don't invest in KS projects, but reading about this has been eye-opening. Whatever issues he may have had during his time in Japan, it seems like his personality just exacerbated the problems he was having.