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[Amiga]

Example?
Stating that they have most powerful console? That's not "feeding console warring" that's just a fact. And when you are triggered by it then it's your issue

more slower CUs=/= more power, MS had several chances to prove this is more than a marketing term and they failed. and this MS insistence on unsubstantiated slogans leads doesn't help grow trust with consumer. right now those impressed are mostly the same die-hard fans who hailed Kenect and Xbox1X. MS are improving as game makers but as a console platform holder it's over.

 

[John254]

more slower CUs=/= more power, MS had several chances to prove this is more than a marketing term and they failed. and this MS insistence on unsubstantiated slogans leads doesn't help grow trust with consumer. right now those impressed are mostly the same die-hard fans who hailed Kenect and Xbox1X. MS are improving as game makers but as a console platform holder it's over.

What? Show me one example of same architecture GPU's where you can overcome that huge of CU deficit with higher clocks.
It will be proved when first multiplat comparisons will be out. Until then they can't prove it because they don't have a PS5 hw. But it's common sense (12>10) that they have more powerful. Same as Sony has faster console thanks to the ssd

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[magaman]

PC gameplay of Halo.

Is that supposed to make me less skeptical? Dude, this is a planned launch of footage. This is Halo: Infinite in its absolute best form. They likely made 50 demos and this was the best way to showcase what it has to offer. It's an absolute joke, complete with gameplay straight from 2002 and graphics from 2013.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Is that supposed to make me less skeptical? Dude, this is a planned launch of footage. This is Halo: Infinite in its absolute best form. They likely made 50 demos and this was the best way to showcase what it has to offer. It's an absolute joke, complete with gameplay straight from 2002 and graphics from 2013.

Bungo is dead and 343 is shit.

Long live Doom!

 

[FunkMiller]

Jesus Christ.

Series X dead on arrival at this rate.

 

[DarkMage619]

It is insanity to do the same thing and expect a different result. MS copied Sony with the original Xbox and it failed. They copied Nintendo with Kintect and it failed. They released smaller consoles and controllers when Japanese gamers complained and more released Japanese games. People didn't buy them and those efforts failed.

Game pass is all MS. They aren't copying anyone this time and we'll have to see if they can be more successful forging their own path. Yelling at them for not being more like Sony/Nintendo is asking for them to fail all over again.

 

[TheCrimsnFuckr]

I mean honestly, selling GamePass is their plan and I feel like it's going to work for them especially once they don't need to get a lot of third party games at launch (like they are doing now). Once their studios become fully operational and in "the flow" (ie, fully expanded, previous contracts fulfilled, pandemic over and several games a year) in around 2021 to 2022, Game Pass is going to grow even more than it already has been I feel.

The consoles are important as subs aren't yet the norm, and choices are important (also, selling consoles will help sell GPU) but the console is no longer needed for the Xbox eco-system

 

[Craig of War]

Yup it is what it is the 3 major player in Sony Microsoft and Nintendo have all taken different path now Sony sticking to traditional console box Nintendo going handheld and Microsoft still have traditional console but going more game subscriptions service now we will wait and see who truly wins in 10 years time.

 

[bitbydeath]

What? Show me one example of same architecture GPU's where you can overcome that huge of CU deficit with higher clocks.
It will be proved when first multiplat comparisons will be out. Until then they can't prove it because they don't have a PS5 hw. But it's common sense (12>10) that they have more powerful. Same as Sony has faster console thanks to the ssd

TF Numbers don’t tell the full story just look at GCN VS RDNA2 performance differences on the same TF.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I'll be curious to see if they really do reveal a 2nd console. I know a lot of "insiders" keep swearing it's on its way but I gotta hear it from MS.

I'm actually wondering the same thing because they don't have much time left to reveal it. It's August or bust in my opinion.

 

[quest]

I mean honestly, selling GamePass is their plan and I feel like it's going to work for them especially once they don't need to get a lot of third party games at launch (like they are doing now). Once their studios become fully operational and in "the flow" (ie, fully expanded, previous contracts fulfilled, pandemic over and several games a year) in around 2021 to 2022, Game Pass is going to grow even more than it already has been I feel.

The consoles are important as subs aren't yet the norm, and choices are important (also, selling consoles will help sell GPU) but the console is no longer needed for the Xbox eco-system

Stadia proved no one wants online only device. Gamespass only works with selling consoles for the next decade. No console sales no gamepass sales. Microsoft has 2 years to transition people from the old generation to the new. So the whole they don't care about console sales is disingenuous.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

So the whole they don't care about console sales is disingenuous.

They don't care about consoles, but they invested millions of dollars in marketing and R&D to make one (or two) "next-gen" machines, and they don't even believe in generations either!

They sure act as if they believed in consoles and generations.

 

[BaneIsPain]

The insanity crept inside Tom Warren's head.

 

[Freeman]

I still can't believe Lockhart is still a thing. What is the point of not announcing it? Are they unsure about it?

 

[SoloKingRobert]

Stadia proved no one wants online only device. Gamespass only works with selling consoles for the next decade. No console sales no gamepass sales. Microsoft has 2 years to transition people from the old generation to the new. So the whole they don't care about console sales is disingenuous.

You're right. No PC gamers wants PS Now, they prefer playing Native games on Xbox Game Pass.

R.I.P Streamable 30fps games

 

[quest]

I still can't believe Lockhart is still a thing. What is the point of not announcing it? Are they unsure about it?

I am guessing they are if Sony prices the discless unit at 399.99 it kills it basically. It needs to be 150-200 dollars less to make sense and sell. They can't sell it for a big loss the lockheart customer is not a big spender. It really makes 299.99 low as they can go so they need Sony to be at 499.99 disk-449.99 diskless. So they can't announce it until Sony does.

 

[Kenpachii]

TF Numbers don’t tell the full story just look at GCN VS RDNA2 performance differences on the same TF.

It does when the architecture used is the same.

I still can't believe Lockhart is still a thing. What is the point of not announcing it? Are they unsure about it?

Probably waiting on sony's pricing.

 

[bitbydeath]

It does when the architecture used is the same.

Yes, but what about when it isn’t the same?

 

[Kenpachii]

Yes, but what about when it isn’t the same?

It is they use both rdna2. GCN is a different architecture.

 

[bitbydeath]

It is they use both rdna2.

Custom RDNA2. They aren’t the same.

 

[Kenpachii]

Custom RDNA2. They aren’t the same.

Still RDNA2

 

[bitbydeath]

Still RDNA2

It doesn’t need a name change to obtain more performance, it’s dependent upon the customisations.

 

[Redlight]

And the only gameplay we saw was halo infinite, If you believe that was lovingly created AAA best in class I have no words.

You're forgetting Remedy's Crossfire X campaign. That's got snippets of gameplay in it and looks stunning. It's HUD free, so tread carefully, but if it's legit then It's the best next-gen thing I've seen so far.

 

[njean777]

How many times have we heard of variations of this blue ocean strategy and when ever have these supposed 2 billion potential new gamers bought into the platform? They're chasing a unicorn.

Not really all the PC gamers running windows already bought into their platform. Xbox is icing on the cake for them. Sell good hardware (XSX) and then reap the rewards of both PC gamers/Xbox Players. Nothing is stopping them from turning the XSX into a smaller PC with the addition of M/KB support along with controller (obvious). Run a lightweight version of windows on XSX and then both the PC/Xbox flourish compared to optimizing for PS5 (why do the extra work?). Not saying that is happening but it could.

 

[bumleforce]

All the people talking about gamepass like its bad are idiots. Im not one to put people down but gamepass is a great offer for gamers. I played devil may cry 5 this year to the moon and Red dead, all games I normally wouldn't play. Red dead is now my game of the gen. All this for 10 to 15 a months with all xbox first party games and great third party games. Again for 10 bucks a month. Play on your console pc or tablet.

 

[teezzy]

The Verge should stick to building PCs

 

[Kenpachii]

It doesn’t need a name change to obtain more performance, it’s dependent upon the customisations.

Welcome to tflops.

We know the tflops and we know the architecture from AMD and Sony themselves. There is no secret here. Unless sony announces tomorrow it runs on RDNA3 architecture which is x amount more efficient then yea u can't compare the tflops. But as far as we know that's not the case.

With your logic a 2060 and 2070 are different architectures which can't be compared in tflop numbers because the 2070 has changed specifications. Even while 2070 is faster and could have more in everything and all kinds more features, it's still the same architecture.

 

[Genx3]

I don't mind Lockhart but that got dang XB1S needs to be abandoned as far as AAA support is concerned.
Lowest common denominator for New cross gen AAA XGS games should be the XB1X and these games should shoot for 1440P on it so that the XSX HW can be fully maximized.

 

[DavidGzz]

People continue to act all dramatic about MS having a different strategy. If it doesn't work, oh well, do you have stock in MS? 80% of the haters most likely have never been interested in Xbox. Would it be better if MS and Sony had 99% the same games and services? Let them be different. I don't like Nintendos strategy and haven't since after the Gamecube, do I give a shit now? Nope, I just don't buy their products. Unless the Switch gets Game Pass, that could change my mind.

 

[cryptoadam]

If Xcloud came tl PC with game pass I would sign up.

 

[DavidGzz]

If Xcloud came tl PC with game pass I would sign up.

I mean, that BETTER happen. Tired of spending so much on Steam cause of GE Force Now. It's just so convenient.

 

[John254]

It doesn’t need a name change to obtain more performance, it’s dependent upon the customisations.

So then XsX APU should be even more powerful. Because Sony Principal Engineer said that Sony's APU is missing one feature, presumably VRS, which is huge for extracting more performance

 

[SaucyJack]

If Gamepass is the future for Xbox then it will need to be profitable or Microsoft Corp will kill it.

Games with supposed $500m budgets that take 5 years to make are not going to be particularly profitable in the context of an $8-10/month sub. Even Netflix has a problem with this, and is plagued by negative cash flow as it spends more on content than it receives in subs.

 

[bitbydeath]

So then XsX APU should be even more powerful. Because Sony Principal Engineer said that Sony's APU is missing one feature, presumably VRS, which is huge for extracting more performance

Should certainly be more powerful than what we’ve seen unless the power is bottlenecking.

 

[geordiemp]

You're forgetting Remedy's Crossfire X campaign. That's got snippets of gameplay in it and looks stunning. It's HUD free, so tread carefully, but if it's legit then It's the best next-gen thing I've seen so far.

We dont even know what was run on what hardware.

Its looks great, must be XSX

Oh that looks terrible, must be PC.

 

[bitbydeath]

Welcome to tflops.

We know the tflops and we know the architecture from AMD and Sony themselves. There is no secret here. Unless sony announces tomorrow it runs on RDNA3 architecture which is x amount more efficient then yea u can't compare the tflops. But as far as we know that's not the case.

With your logic a 2060 and 2070 are different architectures which can't be compared in tflop numbers because the 2070 has changed specifications. Even while 2070 is faster and could have more in everything and all kinds more features, it's still the same architecture.

You should watch this.



It’s a bit technical but is all about driving greater performance out of every part.

 

[Kataploom]

If Gamepass is the future for Xbox then it will need to be profitable or Microsoft Corp will kill it.

Games with supposed $500m budgets that take 5 years to make are not going to be particularly profitable in the context of an $8-10/month sub. Even Netflix has a problem with this, and is plagued by negative cash flow as it spends more on content than it receives in subs.

This is why I prefer the industry to lessen their obsession over AAA gaming, many AA games are doing good now and it also can be used to launch more new IPs on which spend AAA amounts of money if they prove to be profitable

 

[oagboghi2]

Not really all the PC gamers running windows already bought into their platform. Xbox is icing on the cake for them. Sell good hardware (XSX) and then reap the rewards of both PC gamers/Xbox Players. Nothing is stopping them from turning the XSX into a smaller PC with the addition of M/KB support along with controller (obvious). Run a lightweight version of windows on XSX and then both the PC/Xbox flourish compared to optimizing for PS5 (why do the extra work?). Not saying that is happening but it could.

Just pure fantasy nonsense

 

[Panajev2001a]

So then XsX APU should be even more powerful. Because Sony Principal Engineer said that Sony's APU is missing one feature, presumably VRS, which is huge for extracting more performance

... and if you believe that you also believe Sony’s APU has more features than RDNA2 that might be “more huge” for extracting more performance than the one they removed .

 

[geordiemp]

So then XsX APU should be even more powerful. Because Sony Principal Engineer said that Sony's APU is missing one feature, presumably VRS, which is huge for extracting more performance

And if you read the Cerny patent on Sonys version of VRS which is 2.5 x more efficient at rendering wide field of view images and splits the frustum into sections with priorities maybe we could have a more sensible discussion.

Maybe Sonys tier 2 better VRS is huge for extacting more performance ? Go read the patents.

All we know todate is Sony patents, games shown on actual ps5s looked good and had ray tracing.

I cant comment on XSX as its a mystery what was PC or XSX...............DF gave up guessing.....? Who knows.

 

[PlayVerso]

Microsoft has sacrificed quality for quantity, many doubleA but few tripleA, and the majority of tripleA will be from its already established sagas, I doubt if the Rare game 'EverWild' has a large-scale development or how Sea of Thieves will have a launch with little content initially.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I am guessing they are if Sony prices the discless unit at 399.99 it kills it basically. It needs to be 150-200 dollars less to make sense and sell. They can't sell it for a big loss the lockheart customer is not a big spender. It really makes 299.99 low as they can go so they need Sony to be at 499.99 disk-449.99 diskless. So they can't announce it until Sony does.

But that assumes Microsoft had the machinery ready to go... But that makes no sense because it takes multiple months to set up a production line for making a console. Seriously, at this point both Playstation and Xbox are already making their next gen hardware and stockpilling them, you CAN'T delay the production of Lockhart any longer by now. They either make it now, or there would not be any Lockhart available on launch day even if they want to sell them.

Basically you are assuming MS can suddenly decide to launch or cancel a whole console SKU with a day's notice, and that is impossible. Lockhart either is coming out or it never will. The decision to do so must have been made several months earlier at this point.

 

[John254]

... and if you believe that you also believe Sony’s APU has more features than RDNA2 that might be “more huge” for extracting more performance than the one they removed .

Yeah sure.

I'm open for a bet that majority of multiplats will run better (higher resolution) on XsX

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah sure.

I'm open for a bet that majority of multiplats will run better (higher resolution) on XsX

Welcome to spot the single digit to 18% percentage difference and let’s see what they give up to win that resolution and TFLOPS war .

 

[Zoro7]

I dont need gameplay of Fable or state of decay to know I would buy those.

You saw Gunk and PSO gameplay and Grounded

Wait really? You would blindly buy those games without seeing gameplay?
Wow.

 

[Goalus]

Doesn’t mean making “the most powerful console” to look like current gen. Why waste all the money and resources then?

How would Game Pass games look compared to the competition in two years if they hadn't made the most powerful console?

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah sure.

I'm open for a bet that majority of multiplats will run better (higher resolution) on XsX

Higher than 4K?
PS5 has already proven it can reach that without issue.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

How would Game Pass games look compared to the competition in two years if they hadn't made the most powerful console?

Since Gamepass would still depend on games that run on old PCs and XboxOneS... exactly the same with no changes.

 

[Goalus]

Since Gamepass would still depend on games that run on old PCs and XboxOneS... exactly the same with no changes.

Wrong.
Forza Horizon 5 cannot take advantage of the most powerful console if that console doesn't exist.

But since it exists, FH5 will take advantage of it and blow minds.

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