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The Verge: MS says it needs smaller games to do well yesterday
- Thread starter Wastelander92
- Start date
SenkiDala
Member
No but the decision of closing Tango is bad. I'm not talking about that and you're showing me what everyone is tweeting since 48 hours. But it doesn't matter, it's ok and even common in 2024 to have no personality.
What I also mean is that nobody bought those games. EW1 sold 4M copies (because Mikami, because "the New RE4 is here", but in fact no) and 2 sold like shit (a little less than 1 million...). I didn't find any numbers for Ghostwire but knowing nobody who played the games and that it was on sale at 19€ after 2 months isn't a good sign.
I bought EW1, EW2, Ghostwire Tokyo, all on day one. I bought the DLCs of EW1 on day one. I did my part.
So should I receive lessons from people who buy nothing and then "oh nooo why closing the studio ? the gamez were awesooooome?
" ? I don't think so.I am saddened of what happened to this studio. But fuck nobody bought their games... Sure I'd prefer that MS manage the thing differently, integrate the team into another, modeling it differently...
But it just pisses me off to see all the internet shitting on "oh no Tango, my fav gamezzzzzz" while they didn't buy any of their games or EW1 at 9$ in a sale... That's so hypocritical.
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King Dazzar
Member
I'm so glad I have as little as possible to do with MS these days.
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
No but the decision of closing Tango is bad. I'm not talking about that and you're showing me what everyone is tweeting since 48 hours. But it doesn't matter, it's ok and even common in 2024 to have no personality.
What I also mean is that nobody bought those games. EW1 sold 4M copies (because Mikami, because "the New RE4 is here", but in fact no) and 2 sold like shit (a little less than 1 million...). I didn't find any numbers for Ghostwire but knowing nobody who played the games and that it was on sale at 19€ after 2 months isn't a good sign.
I bought EW1, EW2, Ghostwire Tokyo, all on day one. I bought the DLCs of EW1 on day one. I did my part.
So should I receive lessons from people who buy nothing and then "oh nooo why closing the studio ? the gamez were awesooooome?
I am saddened of what happened to this studio. But fuck nobody bought their games... Sure I'd prefer that MS manage the thing differently, integrate the team into another, modeling it differently...
But it just pisses me off to see all the internet shitting on "oh no Tango, my fav gamezzzzzz" while they didn't buy any of their games or EW1 at 9$ in a sale... That's so hypocritical.
I've bought all their games at full price. Do I have your permission to shit on them now, bootlicker?
Schmendrick
Member
Orutisu Furio
Member
XBOX as a brand is pretty much over. They’ve never recovered from their disastrous XBOX ONE reveal / launch in 2013. It’s been over a decade of very mediocre game output and releases, endless blunders and missteps, and now it all leads to this. Total dysfunction and disorganization.
I don’t see a future in the near term where XBOX as a console is successful and actually taken seriously by the marketplace. The only logical step forward for the future is to become a major publisher and release games across all platforms. That’s the only way they’re ever going to recoup their investment purchase into Activision/King/Blizzard which was a monstrous $70 billion USD.
There aren’t enough XBOX consoles being sold and Game Pass subscribers buying into their service to make the math work in their favor.
I don’t see a future in the near term where XBOX as a console is successful and actually taken seriously by the marketplace. The only logical step forward for the future is to become a major publisher and release games across all platforms. That’s the only way they’re ever going to recoup their investment purchase into Activision/King/Blizzard which was a monstrous $70 billion USD.
There aren’t enough XBOX consoles being sold and Game Pass subscribers buying into their service to make the math work in their favor.
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Topher
Gold Member
No but the decision of closing Tango is bad. I'm not talking about that and you're showing me what everyone is tweeting since 48 hours. But it doesn't matter, it's ok and even common in 2024 to have no personality.
What I also mean is that nobody bought those games. EW1 sold 4M copies (because Mikami, because "the New RE4 is here", but in fact no) and 2 sold like shit (a little less than 1 million...). I didn't find any numbers for Ghostwire but knowing nobody who played the games and that it was on sale at 19€ after 2 months isn't a good sign.
I bought EW1, EW2, Ghostwire Tokyo, all on day one. I bought the DLCs of EW1 on day one. I did my part.
So should I receive lessons from people who buy nothing and then "oh nooo why closing the studio ? the gamez were awesooooome?
I am saddened of what happened to this studio. But fuck nobody bought their games... Sure I'd prefer that MS manage the thing differently, integrate the team into another, modeling it differently...
But it just pisses me off to see all the internet shitting on "oh no Tango, my fav gamezzzzzz" while they didn't buy any of their games or EW1 at 9$ in a sale... That's so hypocritical.
Aaron Greenberg was right there telling you that you are wrong. Hi Fi Rush exceeded expectations and yet Tango gets shut down regardless. Matt Booty is saying they want smaller, more award winning games which is exactly what Hi Fi Rush is. But you are so hellbent on pointing out the "hypocrisy" of gamers that you ignoring the words of Microsoft's executives that entirely contradict this decision. And I don't know where you got the notion that you have to buy your way in to have an opinion on these decisions. Wanting Xbox leaders to make the right choices and wanting their actions and words to actually match up doesn't require a proof of purchase. All of that is just contrived ways of defending that "$3 trillion dollar corporation".
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saintjules
Member
Mr Hyde
Gold Member
How can MS be this fucking tone deaf? Who are these goddamn people in charge? They are spitting right in the faces on all of us who loved Tango and their games. Shutting it down for no reason and then dancing on its corpse a mere 24h after. Fuck Microsoft and everyone in the leadership. I hope the whole fucking company burns down to the ground so they can get the fuck out of the video games industry.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Everyone's getting EA'ed.
mayham2199
Member
I disagree with this big time. If Xbox would have come out with some bangers I think they could have kept themselves in the race. You can't continue to release mid game after mid game and keep saying "we know we need more games" for like a decade and then wonder why the console sales start to crater. Especially when your competition is crushing it.
Mibu no ookami
Member
You've misread the room.
Phil Spencer became head of Xbox in 2014. Whatever games were coming out at the time were already coming out. The question for Microsoft was do you put R&D money into Xbox Series X and S and why bother?
What Phil Spencer promised them in exchange for continued hardware development was insane returns a kin to Netflix.
He was able to talk them into acquisitions after the promise of GamePass and it showing some signs of increasing MAUs, but they didn't have the development teams or corporate policy to create bangers. Their contractor policies alone are impossible to work many games through.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Counterpoint
None of that matters, since the Microsoft board wanted to shutter Xbox down in the X1 generation.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Oh, absolutely, he's definitely played a part in the X1 being what it was, but I'm specifically referring to the idea that he killed xbox, when he gave it a 2nd life. It was already dead in 2014.
Humdinger
Member
Ok, I see.
Btw, not to nitpick, but do we actually know that for a fact -- that Xbox was "already dead" in 2014, and only Spencer saved it?
I know I've heard that story many times, but I'm also aware of how these stories can get going and then assume the mantle of truth, when the historical reality was a bit different. I don't know the historical facts myself, so I'm not disputing you. I'm just asking whether we know this to be an actual, historical fact -- that Xbox was on the brink of being killed in 2014, and it was only because Phil Spencer came to the rescue that it lived to see another decade?
Or is the actual story more complicated and nuanced than that? In part, I'm asking because I know how easily these sorts of "heroic" stories can get started, especially around (formerly) beloved figures like Phil Spencer.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Don Mattick spent 15 years at EA before joining Microsoft and overseeing the X360 era. You make it sound like Phil couldn’t do anything during XBO time and had just to wait, which is blatantly wrong.
Mattick is a typical executive that was a lot less PR than Spencer but actually did a much better job.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Humdinger
Member
Interesting. That's not as definitive as I would like. It doesn't say Xbox was "already dead in 2014," just that Nadella was questioning whether it was worthwhile to continue. It also doesn't say Spencer saved it from death, only that Nadella decided to back his vision. Perhaps others had other visions as well, for instance. And also, we're hearing this from Phil Spencer himself. I'm not saying he's lying, but Spencer is very talented at PR - including, perhaps, for himself.
I'm not discounting that Nadella was sold on Phil's vision, or that Xbox was in trouble in 2014 after the disastrous Xbox One launch. But I am not seeing evidence that Nadella was on the verge of bringing down the axe, and Phil rescued it from certain doom. I think we've got a little bit of The Legend of Phil creeping in here.
But I guess it doesn't matter much. It's kind of moot at this point.
I'm not discounting that Nadella was sold on Phil's vision, or that Xbox was in trouble in 2014 after the disastrous Xbox One launch. But I am not seeing evidence that Nadella was on the verge of bringing down the axe, and Phil rescued it from certain doom. I think we've got a little bit of The Legend of Phil creeping in here.
But I guess it doesn't matter much. It's kind of moot at this point.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Ok I'll finally bite .... serious question... please explain to me how a game (Hi-Fi rush) that was MS exclusive to Pc/Xbox and included in their flagship subscription service is expected to SELL a lot of copies ? Reminding that if you have gamepass you can play it and/or you can subscribe for cheap and play it ...
Now lets acknowledge that this also is a new AA game from a small studio, shadowdropped, digital only and with zero marketing.
And Im taking out PS sales because is absurd to think that MS is basing their business decisions on a move taken a few months ago. Again without marketing support.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Fable looks fire
bitbydeath
Gold Member
If they had someone competent in charge they could have turned it around.
Mibu no ookami
Member
What you see as "turning it around" would still be peanuts to Microsoft. So again you're missing the big picture.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
bro.... I'm snapping.
people arguing about the size of the game is so fucking retarded when the point is that MS wants success without making an effort.
i said this a long time ago. but listening to an official Xbox podcast. Phil was saying that the hardest thing for him was to visit (travel) to each studio.
these mfs killed Tango because it was in Japan and that was an annoyance.
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sachos
Member
My problem with this article is that the headline makes it seems as if it is a full quote, people going over spreading it as if it was the real quote when it was “We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards”. This is how misinformation spreads.
I would love for the quote to be true since i've been championing for smaller dev cycles but it comes off as tone deaf/fake/bullshit after saying they closed those studios to prioritize high-impact titles and further invest in Bethesda’s portfolio of blockbuster games. So which quote do you trust? Yet another hit to Xbox credibility.
I would love for the quote to be true since i've been championing for smaller dev cycles but it comes off as tone deaf/fake/bullshit after saying they closed those studios to prioritize high-impact titles and further invest in Bethesda’s portfolio of blockbuster games. So which quote do you trust? Yet another hit to Xbox credibility.
FeralEcho
Member
Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
To all the people saying Xbox was dead because of the XB1, what about Nintendo and the failure that was the Wii U? Oh, I know you will say "Nintendo has stronger IP's so they could bounce back anytime," but that would be quite the revisionist statement, because at the time everyone thought Nintendo was on the verge of going third party.
I'm not saying that Don left Xbox in a particularly good position at the end of his tenure, but the difference between a mediocre executive and a great one is the ability to right a sinking ship, and the difference between the responses of Satoru Iwata and Phil Spencer could not make that more clear.
Phil does not understand the gaming industry at a fundamental level, he wouldn't know what a good game looked like if it slapped him in the face. Look how hard they pushed Redfall and sent Hi-Fi Rush out to die as a fucking shadow drop. Do you think for a single second Nintendo or Sony would have made that same mistake?
I'm not saying that Don left Xbox in a particularly good position at the end of his tenure, but the difference between a mediocre executive and a great one is the ability to right a sinking ship, and the difference between the responses of Satoru Iwata and Phil Spencer could not make that more clear.
Phil does not understand the gaming industry at a fundamental level, he wouldn't know what a good game looked like if it slapped him in the face. Look how hard they pushed Redfall and sent Hi-Fi Rush out to die as a fucking shadow drop. Do you think for a single second Nintendo or Sony would have made that same mistake?
Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
Oh, and I wonder if Shinji Mikami saw what Bethesda and Microsoft were trying to push as good games and left when he realized his team would never be treated with the respect, or have the resources he felt they deserved. He knew that they just didn't get "it".
SenkiDala
Member
I'm not ignoring those points, and again YES they made a bad decision (after Lionhead nothing surprises me from them). And you're right you don't need to buy a game to give your opinion about MS shutting down the studio... but to me it is sad to see dozens of tweet getting 10/20M of views, more view than for the trailers of those games...
You can give your opinion, but the fact that you didn't buy (and sometimes play) any of those games, make me think that at least you shouldn't be so vocal about it. Like "man, chill, you never supported the studio anyway".
About the leaders and their words, again you're right but in that case I doubt that Spencer made the call to shut down those studios. He knew what he said, he knew how often he said it, and he knew how much shit he'd get if he shut down the studios. For me the decision comes from higher, like Nadella or the investors. You never worked in a company where a situation happens with a customer for exemple, you want to help that customer, but your boss gives you the order to not help that customer ? And therefore doing things against your will ? I did and it sucks. So for huge companies like this, it must happen on daily basis, or more.
It doesn't excuse anything I know.
I've been vocal against MS politics, and especially (the non existant) marketing, but in that situation I like to try to see the situation on different angles.
MS is just shit in communication and marketing.
They remind me of Molyneux when he had conferences where journalists will ask like "that would be cool to for exemple you cut a tree, an apple falls on the floor, you walk on it and its seeds ends up making a tree that you can see when you come back years later", and him being "YEAH OF COURSE WE WILL DO THAT" and the devs around him taking notes and thinking "wtf he is saying we will never achieve that"...
Except them it's like "OUR GAMES WILL BE NATIVE 4K AND 120FPS" and the dev teams must have been "well errr... it depends you know".
Sometimes even in a huge company, the person who talks isn't the person who knows. MS is a great exemple of that.
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Topher
Gold Member
Eh....I stopped reading when you started making baseles assumptions like that. I played both games with Game Pass.
You'd rather everyone shut up and not criticize a massive corporation. Got it.
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digoutyoursoul
Member
He has said this quite a few times in his ten years but you know what? Does he “understand you”?
I don’t think he and his teams ever did.
I don’t think some of his most ardent supporters in the community would know what hit them if they ever actually got their act together.
The most telling thing is these are the kind of people who make cunty remarks to people for wanting them to do better and when there is even a remote sign of that, they are still being snarky at the ones who wanted that to happen in the first place.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Wastelander92
Member
Forza Horizon
Fredrik
Member
I’m thinking they’re ”listening” and doing micro-adjustments but still working toward the same longterm plan nobody but themselves know the details of.
They might still be on the Xbox One always online DRM plan and cloud gaming for all we know.
Someone here said they were successful with Office 365. Maybe that’s their strategy. Subscribe to the ”console” or ”PC”, always online, with no actual local hardware, available anywhere you have internet access and a screen and some kind of web browsing capabilities.
”Why would I want to live there?”
The community manager that said that was fired. But the plan might never have been scrapped.
”We hear you …but we’re still doing it.”
MasterCornholio
Member
As someone who is in charge of fire extinguishers where I work.
I wouldn't know what to do in that situation be honest. LOL
recursive
Member
Phil was VP of MGS in 2009. He most definitely had a strong hand in what was being delivered in 2014. He didn't walk into someone else's mess, at least not from a games perspective.
Klayzer
Member
There's still people that want to blame consumers for Xbox self-inflicted wounds. Unfucking believable. I guess there's just some that will go counterpoint, no matter how silly they sound.
hyperbertha
Member
Philippu: "it's about the games"
*proceeds to make none*
Philippu : "full creative freedom"
*Most corpo tripe imaginable*
Philippu : "maximum value to xbox gamers"
*releases games on pc and ps5*
Philippu: "welcoming new studios to the xbox family"
*shuts down new studios*
*proceeds to make none*
Philippu : "full creative freedom"
*Most corpo tripe imaginable*
Philippu : "maximum value to xbox gamers"
*releases games on pc and ps5*
Philippu: "welcoming new studios to the xbox family"
*shuts down new studios*