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Thief |OT| Hide your valuables, Garrett is back in town

SJRB

SJRB

Gold Member
justjim89 said:
Speaking of carryovers from Deadly Shadows, has it been confirmed that you'll have to go and manually sell loot to fences to get money and re-supply? I really enjoyed basically having to run Garrett's errands between missions.
Click to expand...

Yes, you will be able to sell loot and resupply at vendors.
 
D

Dahaka

Member
SomewhatGroovy said:
Not sure how anyone is going to be anything but disappointed. We had a topic yesterday that watched about an hour long stream on PS4 and the AI was some of the worst yet seen. The topic is in my post history.

Poor AI
Poor physics
Poor detection
Some weird audio design
Reused assets

I would highly suggest to wait for a price drop.
Click to expand...

Can you address these two please?
 
F

Freedom = $1.05

Banned
DocSeuss said:
Oh man, I feel kinda sad that Dishonored is just one point away from the greatest stealth game ever made. It's not that they didn't make a good game--it was good--it just... I dunno. Something about Dishonored never quite clicked with me.
Click to expand...

My biggest gripe is that you could max out one side of the skill tree by 2/3 into the game, leaving you with nothing to level up unless you start adding points to the other side of the tree. It made me go from super stealth ninja to sociopathic maniac at the end because I wanted to see what those abilities do.
 
T

Truant

Member
I toyed with the idea of starting a Kickstarter to hire Stephen Russel, record all of Garrets dialogue, and then mod it into the PC version.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
SomewhatGroovy said:
The streams was doing some experimenting. He would stand in front of a guard, push it, and the guard wouldn't react. Guard would walk by him, he knocks him out and then throws him down some stairs. When he does this, the body literally slides down sideways with no sound effects. It really looked like a game of Slip n Slide. He kept knocking guards out, tossing their bodies down the stairs, and they would just slide down.

Later on, in some secret underground bunker, the player had to solve a puzzle. He has to keep through heavy underground brick walls. He sees guards having sex. Cue horrible cheesy sex dialogue. Except that when you leave the wall, run down some stairs feet away, you can still hear the dialogue as if you were standing right in the room.

The AI was abhorrent. Dude was playing on normal and he would alert guards of his presence, run into next room, hide in closet. Guards would then enter, make a BEE line to the closet and just stare at it before moving on after a minute to check elsewhere.

It was so laughably bad, I don't think words do it justice.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I missed this one

What if Dishonored ends up doing stealth, combat, traversal, story, and AI better than this game? Comparing the two actually has me more interested in renting this now :p
 
M

murgo

Member
SomewhatGroovy said:
The streams was doing some experimenting. He would stand in front of a guard, push it, and the guard wouldn't react. Guard would walk by him, he knocks him out and then throws him down some stairs. When he does this, the body literally slides down sideways with no sound effects. It really looked like a game of Slip n Slide. He kept knocking guards out, tossing their bodies down the stairs, and they would just slide down.

Later on, in some secret underground bunker, the player had to solve a puzzle. He has to keep through heavy underground brick walls. He sees guards having sex. Cue horrible cheesy sex dialogue. Except that when you leave the wall, run down some stairs feet away, you can still hear the dialogue as if you were standing right in the room.

The AI was abhorrent. Dude was playing on normal and he would alert guards of his presence, run into next room, hide in closet. Guards would then enter, make a BEE line to the closet and just stare at it before moving on after a minute to check elsewhere.

It was so laughably bad, I don't think words do it justice.
Click to expand...

PS4 preorder cancelled.. I'll probably wait for a cheap steam key if I get it at all.
 
D

DukeBobby

Member
SomewhatGroovy said:
The streams was doing some experimenting. He would stand in front of a guard, push it, and the guard wouldn't react. Guard would walk by him, he knocks him out and then throws him down some stairs. When he does this, the body literally slides down sideways with no sound effects. It really looked like a game of Slip n Slide. He kept knocking guards out, tossing their bodies down the stairs, and they would just slide down.

Later on, in some secret underground bunker, the player had to solve a puzzle. He has to keep through heavy underground brick walls. He sees guards having sex. Cue horrible cheesy sex dialogue. Except that when you leave the wall, run down some stairs feet away, you can still hear the dialogue as if you were standing right in the room.

The AI was abhorrent. Dude was playing on normal and he would alert guards of his presence, run into next room, hide in closet. Guards would then enter, make a BEE line to the closet and just stare at it before moving on after a minute to check elsewhere.

It was so laughably bad, I don't think words do it justice.
Click to expand...

Yep, this is pretty much the gist of it.

I was laughing throughout the stream, but inside, I was pretty pissed off.

If you had told me it was an early build, I would have believed you. It really was that bad.
 
D

Dahaka

Member
SomewhatGroovy said:
The streams was doing some experimenting. He would stand in front of a guard, push it, and the guard wouldn't react. Guard would walk by him, he knocks him out and then throws him down some stairs. When he does this, the body literally slides down sideways with no sound effects. It really looked like a game of Slip n Slide. He kept knocking guards out, tossing their bodies down the stairs, and they would just slide down.

Later on, in some secret underground bunker, the player had to solve a puzzle. He has to keep through heavy underground brick walls. He sees guards having sex. Cue horrible cheesy sex dialogue. Except that when you leave the wall, run down some stairs feet away, you can still hear the dialogue as if you were standing right in the room.

The AI was abhorrent. Dude was playing on normal and he would alert guards of his presence, run into next room, hide in closet. Guards would then enter, make a BEE line to the closet and just stare at it before moving on after a minute to check elsewhere.

It was so laughably bad, I don't think words do it justice.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this is kinda enfuriating though I held my expections already back. Still hoping the PC release guys with AMD cards share their "True Audio" experience in comparison.
 
T

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Fine Ham Abounds said:
I'm sorry I missed this one

What if Dishonored ends up doing stealth, combat, traversal, story, and AI better than this game? Comparing the two actually has me more interested in renting this now :p
Click to expand...

well after watching some of the stream I think Dishonored is in different league. going with the videos Dishonored stealth is better, got way better combat system and faster and more interesting movement than the slow clunky climbing and walking in Thief.

Dishonored is a spiritual successor to Thief but it's from a very good developer. Thief is a reboot of the original series but it look like it was not in good hands at all.
 
D

Dahaka

Member
Totobeni said:
well after watching some of the stream I think Dishonored is in different league. going with the videos Dishonored stealth is better, got way better combat system and faster and more interesting movement than the slow clunky climbing and walking in Thief.

Dishonored is a spiritual successor to Thief but it's from a very good developer. Thief is a reboot of the original series but it look like it was not in good hands at all.
Click to expand...

Aren't a few of the Dishonored devs original creators of Thief?
 
O

OldAsUrSock

Banned
Totobeni said:
well after watching some of the stream I think Dishonored is in different league. going with the videos Dishonored stealth is better, got way better combat system and faster and more interesting movement than the slow clunky climbing and walking in Thief.

Dishonored is a spiritual successor to Thief but it's from a very good developer. Thief is a reboot of the original series but it look like it was not in good hands at all.
Click to expand...

Faster is not necessarily better. Having a slower stealth game makes sense because you are trying to be stealthy. Having a fast gameplay for a stealth game, if executed poorly, will not make the game feel like a stealth game.
 
G

garath

Member
When's the review embargo up? I'm really on the fence pre-ordering. I have some steam wallet bucks and $45 for a pre-order isn't too bad. I figure if I don't pre-order I'll probably just wait for a sale.
 
X

Xater

Member
garath said:
When's the review embargo up? I'm really on the fence pre-ordering. I have some steam wallet bucks and $45 for a pre-order isn't too bad. I figure if I don't pre-order I'll probably just wait for a sale.
Click to expand...

As always, expect embargoes to end the day of the release. Also why do you have to pre-order it? Just wait for reviews if the streams are not enough.
 
J

jim2point0

Banned
Whoever made that banner image - good job. I like it.

This game looks like it will be the casual break I need after the hell I'm putting myself through in Dark Souls :)
 
R

Remachinate

Member
henhowc said:
hope the first impressions are wrong. was looking forward to this :(
Click to expand...

I don't really know why everyone is acting like the sky is falling with respect to this game. We've long known it's got problems, and seeing poor AI in action is definitely disheartening, but that doesn't mean the game is fundamentally different from what we're expecting. Do people really change purchase decisions about goofy staircase physics and 2000-era AI?
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
Remachinate said:
I don't really know why everyone is acting like the sky is falling with respect to this game. We've long known it's got problems, and seeing poor AI in action is definitely disheartening, but that doesn't mean the game is fundamentally different from what we're expecting. Do people really change purchase decisions about goofy staircase physics and 2000-era AI?
Click to expand...

You must know the number of "yes" responses you're going to get to that question on this forum :p

It's like any other value judgement, it will matter more to some than to others. It's troubling mainly because of what it could imply about the overall QA/QC and priorities of design, and the fact that AI and physics are the foundation of the large majority of games that aren't turn based. For some people, that's gonna be as bad as input lag or shitty controls. As you say, probably not more than we could have expected judging from all of the development hell discussion over the years.
 
J

justjim89

Member
I got it pre-loading on Steam now. Really excited.

Although I'm hearing say that people with leaked copies aren't able to turn off UI features or objective markers until the game is beat once. I don't exactly buy it, but that'd be incredibly stupid.
 
S

SlasherJPC

Banned
He havejust read all the reactions to some of the streams, have not seen any of the footage. I just got my PS4 review code this morning so I'll be sure to see how the game runs for me this weekend. Treading cautiously.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
Remachinate said:
I don't really know why everyone is acting like the sky is falling with respect to this game. We've long known it's got problems, and seeing poor AI in action is definitely disheartening, but that doesn't mean the game is fundamentally different from what we're expecting. Do people really change purchase decisions about goofy staircase physics and 2000-era AI?
Click to expand...

I haven't closely followed the development of the game nor did I play the originals. But I was hoping for another DX: HR and Tomb Raider-like franchise revival. I guess just reading the impressions puts a damper on that being that all the impressions have been neutral or negative? I don't really want to buy it just because there is a drought...heh
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
SlasherJPC said:
He havejust read all the reactions to some of the streams, have not seen any of the footage. I just got my PS4 review code this morning so I'll be sure to see how the game runs for me this weekend. Treading cautiously.
Click to expand...

No criticism intended of course, but you're more generous than I (and also more entertaining), so I look forward to seeing your impressions.
 
H

Hank Scorpio

Member
Ordered the PS4 version for £34 last week from GameCollection.uk after a gaffer posted about the discounted price.

Kinda reconsidering now. Hmm..

Anyone know if Benny is back? I'm assuming no after seeing some of the footage.
 
H

Horns

Member
Any chance B&M stores stock this game early? Given all the Twitch streams, this might be one of those titles that was shipped to stores too soon.
 
S

SlasherJPC

Banned
Fine Ham Abounds said:
No criticism intended of course, but you're more generous than I (and also more entertaining), so I look forward to seeing your impressions.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah. I def am, no denying that :D. Luckily I still usually explain what I really feel doesn't work with a game even if I enjoyed it regardless.
 
J

justjim89

Member
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
justjim89 said:
See, that's not nearly as bombastic or dismissive as you made it seem. I think they're referring more to the vitriolic fans crying foul for every little thing, not necessarily things that can be construed as legitimate complaints.

And some folks certainly do have rose-colored glasses when looking at the old games.
Click to expand...

Not this series, the last time I played them was 2 years ago. They are still good. The dev guy basically said they don't hold up to what you remember.
 
Raven77

Raven77

Member
I'm not really sure why this game has become the whipping boy for all sorts of negligible issues seen in probably more than 75% of all retail games released.

Re-used assets - I guess you would have to knock Skyrim on that too, nearly every game does this.

AI paths - Sometimes AI cant negotiate the environment properly. Also seen in tons and tons of games released every year.

Hit detection issues - Also seen in a vast majority of titles.

Somewhat cheesy dialogue - Again, found in almost every game released. Not sure why this is a a huge issue all of a sudden. I don't think the dialogue I've heard so far is that bad, outside of some of the brothel stuff.


A side note, I am not making this post to say that we should just accept games with bugs and not complain. But these things are barely mentioned about other games that are celebrated, yet in Thief, they are suddenly massive deal breakers and treated as something uncommon to the industry. I simply don't get it. Skyrim has literally every single issue listed above.
 
E

epmode

Member
Raven77 said:
I'm not really sure why this game has become the whipping boy for all sorts of negligible issues seen in probably more than 75% of all retail games released.

Re-used assets - I guess you would have to knock Skyrim on that too, nearly every game does this.

AI paths - Sometimes AI cant negotiate the environment properly. Also seen in tons and tons of games released every year.

Hit detection issues - Also seen in a vast majority of titles.

Somewhat cheesy dialogue - Again, found in almost every game released. Not sure why this is a a huge issue all of a sudden. I don't think the dialogue I've heard so far is that bad, outside of some of the brothel stuff.


A side note, I am not making this post to say that we should just accept games with bugs and not complain. But these things are barely mentioned about other games that are celebrated, yet in Thief, they are suddenly massive deal breakers and treated as something uncommon to the industry. I simply don't get it. Skyrim has literally every single issue listed above.
Click to expand...

It honestly sounds like you're not familiar with the series. The Thief games are still practically unrivaled when it comes to atmospheric world design, and the excellent dialogue and voice acting goes a long way here.

Similarly, while few care that enemy AI may not be too impressive in action games, it's ridiculously important when it comes to stealth games. The new Thief game getting it worse than the original release fifteen years ago is pretty silly.

As with many of Looking Glass' games, Thief deserves better than "other games are equally lousy"

And don't think that many of those complaining wouldn't come around if this turned out to be on par with Human Revolution. I was really worried about that one but it turned out far better than I expected in the end.
 
M

Mister Chippy

Member
I'll probably pick this up when it goes on sale. Thief is basically the one franchise where I allow myself to pretend I'm super hardcore and actually try to do everything perfectly and sneakily. Really glad they've put those options in for those of us who like that. Also glad you can customize the focus mode. I've only ever enjoyed that specific mechanic in Arkham games, so I'm quite pleased to find out I can not only disable it, but tweak it so that it might serve a similar purpose to Garret's eye in previous games without being too powerful.
 
Raven77

Raven77

Member
epmode said:
It honestly sounds like you're just not familiar with the series. The Thief games are still practically unrivaled when it comes to atmospheric world design, and the excellent dialogue and voice acting goes a long way here.

Similarly, while few care that enemy AI may not be too impressive in action games, it's ridiculously important when it comes to stealth games. That the new Thief game gets it worse than the original release fifteen years ago is pretty silly.

As with many of Looking Glass' games, the Thief series is something special and it deserves better than "other games are equally lousy"

And don't think that many of those complaining wouldn't come around if this turned out to be on par with Human Revolution. I was really worried about that one but it turned out far better than I expected in the end.
Click to expand...


All valid points, and yes, i'm very familiar with the originals having played through them multiple times when they first came out. However, I believe that we pick up some things the original didn't have. The atmosphere is much better, the graphics are (obviously) much better, the lighting system COULD allow for better use of stealth and more gameplay opportunities.

Also, something people seem to be forgetting, a lot of the issues like hit detection, etc. can be fixed with a patch and their may even be a day 1 update. The game is not even out yet technically.
 
J

justjim89

Member
Lactose_Intolerant said:
Not this series, the last time I played them was 2 years ago. They are still good. The dev guy basically said they don't hold up to what you remember.
Click to expand...

No, I certainly agree that the old games aren't bad or have aged terribly. I beat all three of the old games within the past year, finishing Thief 2 just last week. It was amazing, terrible last level notwithstanding. But they do show their age in spots, and flaws that could have been leveled against them even then certainly haven't disappeared.

I know different strokes for different folks, but in some places you see people wage complaints against this game in defense of the old ones, when the very same complaints could be said for Thief 1 or Thief 2.

Let's make no bones about it, the old games will almost assuredly have this beat in terms of level design and player agency, perhaps narrative and audio as well. But let's not pretend like the Looking Glass AI was some master class of player detection or combat tactics.
 
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