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[WickedAngel]

I won't really bother to list the other things people have mentioned (Mid-mission saving, Niko the Tank, etc. etc.) but I will go here;



Does anyone else feel like they're playing the same GTA that they've been playing since the original came out? The entire mission structure is just bland and repetitive; I feel like I've done every mission a dozen times before. You never feel like you're actually part of the story; you're just an outsider running through someone elses book. Aside from a few predetermined places, you have little to no control over how the story is actually playing out.

They need to completely rethink the mission structure. Right now, I'm doing missions for four seperate people and none of them really mean anything to me. The only thing you really do in these missions is follow orders; you never actually set anything up for yourself. Why can't I set up drug deals with rival bosses and betray them? Why can't I organize hits on people that piss me off? Why can't I kidnap daughters of mob bosses and decide what I want to do with them? Why can't I send a group of thugs to rob a bank and listen to it unfold on the radio?

 

[Gully State]

I won't really bother to list the other things people have mentioned (Mid-mission saving, Niko the Tank, etc. etc.) but I will go here;



Does anyone else feel like they're playing the same GTA that they've been playing since the original came out? The entire mission structure is just bland and repetitive; I feel like I've done every mission a dozen times before. You never feel like you're actually part of the story; you're just an outsider running through someone elses book. Aside from a few predetermined places, you have little to no control over how the story is actually playing out.

They need to completely rethink the mission structure. Right now, I'm doing missions for four seperate people and none of them really mean anything to me. The only thing you really do in these missions is follow orders; you never actually set anything up for yourself. Why can't I set up drug deals with rival bosses and betray them? Why can't I organize hits on people that piss me off? Why can't I kidnap daughters of mob bosses and decide what I want to do with them? Why can't I send a group of thugs to rob a bank and listen to it unfold on the radio?

I disagree with you in this instance. The way the mission structure is designed is to turn everything into bite sized chunks for casual play. Being able to make all those choices in the game would fly in the face of the theme of the story. Despite his skill and talents, Niko is a slave in Liberty City and really isn't supposed to be in control of the situation.

 

[Sean]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but the story sucked. In the very early part of the game I thought it was great. The characters were fleshed out, Roman and Niko's banter was funny, Michelle and Vlad were great too. It quickly lost steam after that though, IMO.

First big problem was the

Spoiler

Michelle = fed

twist which happens so early in the game (

Spoiler

and then you pretty much never see her again

) - felt like a waste of time and kind of makes you hesitant to trust anyone else.

Characters came and went so often that there was never any point in getting attached to them. You'd meet someone, do four or five missions for them and then rarely (if ever) see/speak to them again.

Niko's story goes on the back-burner while you run errands for everyone (including

Spoiler

generic mafia dudes

which has been SO overdone by now). His story starts moving again towards the end of the game but feels so rushed and sudden rather than natural. "That Special Someone" chapter was so crappy - the confrontation with

Spoiler

Darko Brevic

was pretty fucking awful for all the build up towards it.

And unless I missed something, what happened to

Spoiler

Bulgarin? They set him up to be the big bad guy, during the diamond mission near the end of the game, Niko was saying something like he 'wouldn't be satisfied until Bulgarin had a bullet in his head'. Then you never hear of him again.

What the hell? Maybe they're saving that for DLC episodes...

The story had a lot of potential, I didn't see much special with it though, honestly. Certainly wasn't "oscar worthy". It feels like Rockstar had too many characters to juggle - I think it would've benefitted from having less (but more fleshed out) characters.

 

[Feral Youth]

I disagree with you in this instance. The way the mission structure is designed is to turn everything into bite sized chunks for casual play. Being able to make all those choices in the game would fly in the face of the theme of the story. Despite his skill and talents, Niko is a slave in Liberty City and really isn't supposed to be in control of the situation.

This is what I love about this thread.

 

[Gully State]

This is what I love about this thread.

?

 

[Stoney Mason]

I disagree with you in this instance. The way the mission structure is designed is to turn everything into bite sized chunks for casual play. Being able to make all those choices in the game would fly in the face of the theme of the story. Despite his skill and talents, Niko is a slave in Liberty City and really isn't supposed to be in control of the situation.

And Much like Final Fantasy there is a set story being told purposely. While you can allow a certain layer of freedom within that structure such as SA does, to tell a coherent story with cutscenes involves a certain structure to the gameplay and not an infinite amount of cutscenes. The story was of Niko Bellic. And it was a set story with certain choice breaks within. They may move more in that direction in future editions with more freedom ala SA but infinite freedom as a gameplay element isn't the GTA way.

 

[Speevy]

I've never seen a game change from looking like my wildest imagination of what a realistic next-generation sandbox game should look like to a high-res Xbox game in a matter of a few hours.

But that's what GTA4 manages.

 

[Greg]

The more I play, the more I just want the thing to be fucking over so I can peacefully destroy the city how I please.

I'm all for stories in games, but it just completely crumbled after the beginning... I was actually pretty impressed with the characters until somewhere shortly after Brucie when the mission lines get segmented.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I've never seen a game change from looking like my wildest imagination of what a realistic next-generation sandbox game should look like to a high-res Xbox game in a matter of a few hours.

But that's what GTA4 manages.

Come again?

 

[Stoney Mason]

Come again?

I guess he's talking about the highs and lows of the graphics at points. Although the highs for GTA 4 are extremely high imo with some of the lows that go along with that. After all the talk about crackdown in this thread I went back to take a look at it, just to make sure I hadn't missed something and while it does have a better and more consistent framerate the geometry and structure of the world doesn't compare.

 

[Speevy]

Come again?

The visuals.

Looks amazing at some points (like when it's storming at night) and ugly at others.

 

[isamu]

I hate....Catch the Wave. Was on it for 5hrs!

That is all.

 

[Struct09]

Interesting that people are having issues with "Catch the Wave". Guess I got lucky, I beat it on my first shot.

 

[Gully State]

In terms of the story, they should've added

Spoiler

a mission arc for Kate.

Also,

Spoiler

the whole diamond arc was very anticlimactic. If you guys missed it, the news radio says that some trash worker finds the diamonds.

 

[knitoe]

"Catch the Wave" only took me 2 tries.

Spoiler

The only hard part was when 2 enemy boats came. What I did was stay right behind your friend Bill's boat, and as soon as 2 boats appear, stop controlling your boat and take them out with our M16 rifle using auto-lock. So much easier than trying to manually aim.

 

[Papercuts]

The story overall was a disappointment to me, as were the missions themselves. While Niko is a good character, not many others in the game are the same. It started off really well, and kept that pace up till

Spoiler

Roman's Cab Shop and Apartment get burned down.

Then the story takes a back seat for random characters and you do crappy repetitive missions and the only reason in sight as said by Niko is for money, and yet you pretty much always have more money that you ever need. Roman's in debt, why not allow the characters to help him?

Then some side stuff, McReary family is pretty good, but they dropped the ball with Kate painfully bad. You never have to actually do anything with her, I sure as hell didn't. When it comes to the end and

Spoiler

she dies, I can't say I really cared much.

The diamond thing had a huge buildup and then ends as a dud, huge waste of time. Unlocking new areas could have been handled better, aside from the first area the rest just randomly allow access after a certain amount of time.

Then, there's the choices.

Spoiler

Dwayne vs. Playboy X - Way too fucking one sided. Why does Playboy cut off connections for doing what he said? Dumb.

Francis vs. Derrik - Pretty good, cool to see how it impacts the rest of the family, and no huge benefit either way.

Deal or Revenge - Personally I thought this could have been handled much better. Kate is for Revenge, Roman is for Deal, yet if you take the one that player is for that character gets killed. Well, Kate is out regardless, but still. Why is it Greed or Revenge? He wanted revenge on Darko and I didn't take it, so it doesn't really make much sense to take revenge on Dimitri, but eh. He also doesn't seem like he'd sell out for money, the two extremes were odd. And yet either way the game ends with revenge.

Live or die - This happened a couple times, I always let the person live. But Darko, what the hell? The whole game built up to it, and when it happens it just seems off to me. Roman's just saying to leave and darko says to kill him, but there wasn't much of an emotional impact on me.

Then the missions...chase, shoot, chase, shoot, etc. Why was there such a lack of variety? There's a ton of tutorial missions which I'm okay with, but later in the game they could have done something to switch things up. I actually enjoyed the chase with Ivan, but it was on foot and you jumped buildings, something that never happens again. They could have come up with something, how about in Alderny where it looks like shooting could cause an explosion, so you have to run and chase someone until you can end it with a fist fight/melee fight. That reminds me, you learn to disarm and then NEVER DO IT AGAIN. The knife I disarmed that guy off of was with me the rest of the game, never need to use anything but guns.

There were some cool missions, but when it comes down to it they were mainly glorified shootouts. So little variety that I actually wonder if something went wrong while they were making the game. Go to a deal, deal goes wrong, shootout, possible chase. Go after target, chase him to a certain area, shootout, escape police. Get a target to eliminate, kill bodyguards, chase. Those are the basic layouts of probably 80% of the missions.

There's a lot GTA4 does right, but it still does so much wrong.

 

[Gully State]

The story overall was a disappointment to me, as were the missions themselves. While Niko is a good character, not many others in the game are the same. It started off really well, and kept that pace up till

Spoiler

Roman's Cab Shop and Apartment get burned down.

Then the story takes a back seat for random characters and you do crappy repetitive missions and the only reason in sight as said by Niko is for money, and yet you pretty much always have more money that you ever need. Roman's in debt, why not allow the characters to help him?

Then some side stuff, McReary family is pretty good, but they dropped the ball with Kate painfully bad. You never have to actually do anything with her, I sure as hell didn't. When it comes to the end and

Spoiler

she dies, I can't say I really cared much.

The diamond thing had a huge buildup and then ends as a dud, huge waste of time. Unlocking new areas could have been handled better, aside from the first area the rest just randomly allow access after a certain amount of time.

Then, there's the choices.

Spoiler

Dwayne vs. Playboy X - Way too fucking one sided. Why does Playboy cut off connections for doing what he said? Dumb.

Francis vs. Derrik - Pretty good, cool to see how it impacts the rest of the family, and no huge benefit either way.

Deal or Revenge - Personally I thought this could have been handled much better. Kate is for Revenge, Roman is for Deal, yet if you take the one that player is for that character gets killed. Well, Kate is out regardless, but still. Why is it Greed or Revenge? He wanted revenge on Darko and I didn't take it, so it doesn't really make much sense to take revenge on Dimitri, but eh. He also doesn't seem like he'd sell out for money, the two extremes were odd. And yet either way the game ends with revenge.

Live or die - This happened a couple times, I always let the person live. But Darko, what the hell? The whole game built up to it, and when it happens it just seems off to me. Roman's just saying to leave and darko says to kill him, but there wasn't much of an emotional impact on me.

Then the missions...chase, shoot, chase, shoot, etc. Why was there such a lack of variety? There's a ton of tutorial missions which I'm okay with, but later in the game they could have done something to switch things up. I actually enjoyed the chase with Ivan, but it was on foot and you jumped buildings, something that never happens again. They could have come up with something, how about in Alderny where it looks like shooting could cause an explosion, so you have to run and chase someone until you can end it with a fist fight/melee fight. That reminds me, you learn to disarm and then NEVER DO IT AGAIN. The knife I disarmed that guy off of was with me the rest of the game, never need to use anything but guns.

There were some cool missions, but when it comes down to it they were mainly glorified shootouts. So little variety that I actually wonder if something went wrong while they were making the game. Go to a deal, deal goes wrong, shootout, possible chase. Go after target, chase him to a certain area, shootout, escape police. Get a target to eliminate, kill bodyguards, chase. Those are the basic layouts of probably 80% of the missions.

There's a lot GTA4 does right, but it still does so much wrong.

The way I rationalized

Spoiler

sparing Darko and killing Dimitri was that Darko was a victim of circumstances. The guy had lost his mind due to guilt of his prior actions whereas Dimitri is just a greedy bastard who had no remorse in betraying those close to him.

 

[isamu]

Interesting that people are having issues with "Catch the Wave". Guess I got lucky, I beat it on my first shot.

"Catch the Wave" only took me 2 tries.

Spoiler

The only hard part was when 2 enemy boats came. What I did was stay right behind your friend Bill's boat, and as soon as 2 boats appear, stop controlling your boat and take them out with our M16 rifle using auto-lock. So much easier than trying to manually aim.

No offense guys, but I'm calling bullshit. No way did you beat this mission on one or two tries. It is impossible.

Spoiler

You HAVE to go through it numerous times in order to know where the enemies are and which of them to pick off first. There are an ASSLOAD of them in the boat house, and from EVERYWHERE! Up top, down on the bottom, left, right, ever fucking where. Phil fucking dies by what seems like simple love taps!

Sorry but I simply don't believe you. If you did, I would like to know what strategy you used to get by the boat house portion on one or two tries without getting killed or letting Phil die.

This mission was way way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder than Three Leaf Clover!!!

 

[Gully State]

No offense guys, but I'm calling bullshit. No way did you beat this mission on one or two tries. It is impossible.

Spoiler

You HAVE to go through it numerous times in order to know where the enemies are and which of them to pick off first. There are an ASSLOAD of them in the boat house, and from EVERYWHERE! Up top, down on the bottom, left, right, ever fucking where. Phil fucking dies by what seems like simple love taps!

Sorry but I simply don't believe you. If you did, I would like to know what strategy you used to get by the boat house portion on one or two tries without getting killed or letting Phil die.

This mission was way way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder than Three Leaf Clover!!!

are you playing with auto aim off?

 

[FFChris]

No buying houses, no clear progression towards 'the American Dream', I wanted to finish off the game with a goddam mansion, why didn't I?

 

[Stahsky]

I hate....Catch the Wave. Was on it for 5hrs!

That is all.

Wait, explain to me which mission this was? I don't remember having too much trouble on any boat missions.

 

[PuppetMaster]

The physics in the pool game really piss me off. They are so wrong. From what I remeber even GTA:SA was better than this in this regard.

 

[Gully State]

Wait, explain to me which mission this was? I don't remember having too much trouble on any boat missions.

Spoiler

Drive a truck to a boat house to pick up drugs. Get out and fight your way through the warehouse into the docks with Phil. Then when you get to the docks, both you and phil jump into separate boats. You then drive the boats to the drop off point while fending off enemy boats.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Interesting that people are having issues with "Catch the Wave". Guess I got lucky, I beat it on my first shot.

Pretty sure he's the only one I've seen having trouble with it. I got it on my first try too. I didn't even know Phil could die.

 

[isamu]

are you playing with auto aim off?

Yes I am. Why, does playing with it on make some missions easier? I would hate to have to resort to turning it on though, seems cheesy.

 

[Stahsky]

Spoiler

Drive a truck to a boat house to pick up drugs. Get out and fight your way through the warehouse into the docks with Phil. Then when you get to the docks, both you and phil jump into separate boats. You then drive the boats to the drop off point while fending off enemy boats.

I did that in two tries

 

[akachan ningen]

Why are the faces still so ugly?! PS2 games have better looking faces. MGS3, GOW, FFX, FFXII... How hard is it to model a decent face?

It's probably something stupid like they're being made by someone who's been at Rockstar forever and they just don't want to replace them.

 

[Gully State]

Yes I am. Why, does playing with it on make some missions easier? I would hate to have to resort to turning it on though, seems cheesy.

I suggest

Spoiler

that you don't drive the truck into the warehouse. You can just park it up front. Also apparently if you kill everyone but one mob in your immediate vicinity, Phil won't run ahead of you. That should allow you to clear the room and the dock area without risking phil's life

 

[steoc4]

They put a ton of great ideas into the game, and then barely used 90% of them.

Like the ability to shoot out tyres, yet almost all of the car chases you get involved in for missions are heavily scripted and shooting out the tyres won't actually do anything because the car in front follows its set route regardless, and you can't do anything until it gets to the point where it's supposed to stop. So one of your best tools is null and void.

I've played through the entire game without getting more than 3 stars from the police (at least at no time I can remember) - the huge penalty for death means I'm very reluctant to try and get this up to a higher level and the missions very rarely involve police.

There's a whole airport in the game, and as far as I can remember not one single mission used it in any way. The subway system too, is huge and intricately modeled, and I've only ever seen it in Three Leaf Clover (best mission in the game) and that Biker mission. It's amazing that the game has such beautiful locations around the city, and nearly all the missions are in bland abandoned warehouse type settings. Even the big landmarks like Star Junction, I don't think a single mission involved doing anything there. A waste really.

The rooftop chase of an early mission was great, but nothing like that ever happened for the rest of the game even though all the mechanics and locations were there, they just never put any more missions up there.

For all of that, I still love the game though. I love driving, I love the game mechanics, and on the missions where everything came together it was better than any other game I've played. So much missed potential though. I'm hopeful for the DLC - they don't need to add any assets at all, give me a couple of hundred new missions within the settings already there and I'll be very happy.

 

[NinjaCodah]

The story overall was a disappointment to me, as were the missions themselves. While Niko is a good character, not many others in the game are the same. It started off really well, and kept that pace up till

Spoiler

Roman's Cab Shop and Apartment get burned down.

Then the story takes a back seat for random characters and you do crappy repetitive missions and the only reason in sight as said by Niko is for money, and yet you pretty much always have more money that you ever need. Roman's in debt, why not allow the characters to help him?

Then some side stuff, McReary family is pretty good, but they dropped the ball with Kate painfully bad. You never have to actually do anything with her, I sure as hell didn't. When it comes to the end and

Spoiler

she dies, I can't say I really cared much.

The diamond thing had a huge buildup and then ends as a dud, huge waste of time. Unlocking new areas could have been handled better, aside from the first area the rest just randomly allow access after a certain amount of time.

Then, there's the choices.

Spoiler

Dwayne vs. Playboy X - Way too fucking one sided. Why does Playboy cut off connections for doing what he said? Dumb.

Francis vs. Derrik - Pretty good, cool to see how it impacts the rest of the family, and no huge benefit either way.

Deal or Revenge - Personally I thought this could have been handled much better. Kate is for Revenge, Roman is for Deal, yet if you take the one that player is for that character gets killed. Well, Kate is out regardless, but still. Why is it Greed or Revenge? He wanted revenge on Darko and I didn't take it, so it doesn't really make much sense to take revenge on Dimitri, but eh. He also doesn't seem like he'd sell out for money, the two extremes were odd. And yet either way the game ends with revenge.

Live or die - This happened a couple times, I always let the person live. But Darko, what the hell? The whole game built up to it, and when it happens it just seems off to me. Roman's just saying to leave and darko says to kill him, but there wasn't much of an emotional impact on me.

Then the missions...chase, shoot, chase, shoot, etc. Why was there such a lack of variety? There's a ton of tutorial missions which I'm okay with, but later in the game they could have done something to switch things up. I actually enjoyed the chase with Ivan, but it was on foot and you jumped buildings, something that never happens again. They could have come up with something, how about in Alderny where it looks like shooting could cause an explosion, so you have to run and chase someone until you can end it with a fist fight/melee fight. That reminds me, you learn to disarm and then NEVER DO IT AGAIN. The knife I disarmed that guy off of was with me the rest of the game, never need to use anything but guns.

There were some cool missions, but when it comes down to it they were mainly glorified shootouts. So little variety that I actually wonder if something went wrong while they were making the game. Go to a deal, deal goes wrong, shootout, possible chase. Go after target, chase him to a certain area, shootout, escape police. Get a target to eliminate, kill bodyguards, chase. Those are the basic layouts of probably 80% of the missions.

There's a lot GTA4 does right, but it still does so much wrong.

I agree. I just beat the game moments ago... felt like the story would just never fucking end!! I think they could have made about 50% of the story missions optional...

Also, I thought your friends and girlfriends were a lot of maintenance for nothing. How many times do you really want to go do activities with Roman or any of your friends anyway???

I did beat "catch the wave" on my first try.

Awesome game though, I still have many things I want to try.

 

[Scribble]

It's a pity that the chase missions are scripted. What I loved about the previous GTAs is the creative way you could tackle missions.

I'm disappointed overall. TBQH, I knew that I wouldn't like it, although I tried not to be so closed minded and follow the hype. I'll put this down as a series that I just don't get.

 

[Ceb]

No offense guys, but I'm calling bullshit. No way did you beat this mission on one or two tries. It is impossible.

Spoiler

You HAVE to go through it numerous times in order to know where the enemies are and which of them to pick off first. There are an ASSLOAD of them in the boat house, and from EVERYWHERE! Up top, down on the bottom, left, right, ever fucking where. Phil fucking dies by what seems like simple love taps!

Sorry but I simply don't believe you. If you did, I would like to know what strategy you used to get by the boat house portion on one or two tries without getting killed or letting Phil die.

This mission was way way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder than Three Leaf Clover!!!

The mission would be easy if Phil could just stay the fuck out of the boat house. Hmm, maybe I should find out a way to block him from exiting the truck...

 

[Sato Koiji]

I dont like the obligations you have towards your "pals" to gain more sympathie and unlock special features. It IS fun but there are too many person you have to take care....especially if you dont feel like going out with someone and you decline...sympathy will decrease which sucks.

 

[Stahsky]

The mission would be easy if Phil could just stay the fuck out of the boat house. Hmm, maybe I should find out a way to block him from exiting the truck...

funny, because he never rushed in there 'till I had most of the men gunned down for me.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

I was gonna say the pigeons, but it's actually been fun \with a guide

I dont like the obligations you have towards your "pals" to gain more sympathie and unlock special features. It IS fun but there are too many person you have to take care....especially if you dont feel like going out with someone and you decline...sympathy will decrease which sucks.

Accept, then cancel plans and their like of you won't go down.

 

[isamu]

I did that in two tries

I did beat "catch the wave" on my first try.

Well, all I can say is that I must suck at the "protect the other guy"-type missions. So let me ask you guys....what was the hardest mission to you, other than the very last one? Three Leaf Clover? Derelict Target? The Museum fight? Trespass?

I'm gonna start Trespass as soon as I get outta here and get back home. Hope it isn't as tough as CtW.

I suggest

Spoiler

that you don't drive the truck into the warehouse. You can just park it up front. Also apparently if you kill everyone but one mob in your immediate vicinity, Phil won't run ahead of you. That should allow you to clear the room and the dock area without risking phil's life

Thanks but I've done it already I actually pulled the truck away a bit then picked off the guys one by one with the sniper rifle. Was still a close call though.

 

[Everdred]

My complaints:

I thought the story was lacking. As everyone else the beginning was awesome and then quickly fell off.

TOO EASY, I only had to retry 2 missions. One took 3 tries (the last mission) the other took 2 (the mission where you climb the air ducts to the roof, take out the snipes and then blow up the vans). Other than that I beat every mission on the first try.

This was my first GTA and I feel like I'm already sick of the structure. The missions are all go to this location kill this person or go here and bring back this. There wasn't a good variety.

Final note... BRUCIE IS AWESOME and there were a lot of things I did like about the game.

Gamertag: Everdred Zer0 just so you know I beat it etc.

 

[isamu]

TOO EASY, I only had to retry 2 missions. One took 3 tries (the last mission) the other took 2. Other than that I beat every mission on the first try.

Yeah....OK :lol

 

[Everdred]

Yeah....OK :lol

I'm not even lying. I died more than that on random stuff, but just counting missions I rarely died. I don't see why people have so many problems with certain missions. I did use auto aim, which perhaps I shouldn't have, which made head shots insanely easy. Just hold the joystick halfway up and shoot. BAM you just drop guys like 1 every 2 seconds. Its really not that difficult. The only times I had a hard time were from clunky controls or gameplay mishaps.

EDIT: Game completed after 23 hours with a fair amount of screwing around.

 

[GameGamer]

After giving GTA4 a second chance I have to return it.


The frame rate is giving me headaches.

I'm disgusted by the lack of a simple Start>Save/Load feature, meaning I have to waste time better spent on other things.

I'm tired of driving these balloon cars. I know they made the control junk so that more crazy things would happen while driving. But it's too cheap for me.

Pressing buttons to get out of walk mode is a disgrace to gaming and all the reviewers who gave this a 10 are in the wrong business.

The graphics are not current gen. The sound levels are way off. The humor is targeted to tweens. There is too much repetition. And Saint's Row had more game play fun using Havok than GTA4 does with whatever hype they were trying to push with their new tech.

Again now with GTA4 out, True Crime, Crackdown (for graphics, leveling, and control) and Saints Row deserve to get a lot more respect.

 

[Everdred]

After giving GTA4 a second chance I have to return it.


The frame rate is giving me headaches.

I'm disgusted by the lack of a simple Start>Save/Load feature, meaning I have to waste time better spent on other things.

I'm tired of driving these balloon cars. I know they made the control junk so that more crazy things would happen while driving. But it's too cheap for me.

Pressing buttons to get out of walk mode is a disgrace to gaming and all the reviewers who gave this a 10 are in the wrong business.

The graphics are not current gen. The sound levels are way off. The humor is targeted to tweens. There is too much repetition. And Saint's Row had more game play fun using Havok than GTA4 does with whatever hype they were trying to push with their new tech.

Again now with GTA4 out, True Crime, Crackdown (for graphics, leveling, and control) and Saints Row deserve to get a lot more respect.

I agree with most of this. I definitely had more fun playing Saints Row (same category) and a hell of a lot better time playing Crackdown (different style).

 

[robochimp]

I simply can't get into this game. I loved San Andreas, GTA4 just isn't doing it for me. The no mission checkpoints thing is beyond stupid. I've spent more time driving to missions than actually doing the missions.

 

[samratty]

My compliants:
- Missions are boring. Repititive, lengthend pointlessly and just plain uninspired. My analogy for thier mission design is to take FUN and change it into F--------------U-------------N. Was present in previous GTA games, but not as much as in this one I've found.
- Over linearity of a lot of missions. You have a sandbox to do nothing with except follow scripted paths.
- Melee combat sucks now. Not so neccesary in missions, but I love(d) going around getting into fist fights.
- The story isn't all it's cracked up to be. Servicable for sure.
- The fact the game is almost entirely city is a little boring.
- The online seems to suck (I haven't played around with it much).

 

[Doc Evils]

This is the first GTA where it feels empty once you have done all the missions. It's not even fun any more to get wanted stars and run away from the police.

 

[kaizoku]

After playing Burnout Paradise demo, the main flaw in this game for me is clear. Burnout Paradise feels like it was made with the gamer in mind. You explore shitloads and almost everywhere you turn there is a clue or different pathway to take. forexample if you see something interesting like a bilboard or an open route and you take it yuo are guaranteed that it opens up new routes and rewards you with some kind of bonus or fun thing to do.

In GTA whenever I see something of note in this "wonderful playground", I go and explore it and generally find myself a bit bored and wandering around aimlessly. wtf? Most of the time I dont even get a decent weapon or pigeon - which are rather shit rewards anyway!

When do I get to drive up a multistory parking lot and drive off the roof? Where are the spectacular jumps? I've only done a couple and they were merely ok and kind of closed. You just do it, get a replay and thats it. You dont find yourself in a new location or it didnt open up a dramatic shortcut to help you evade cops in future. That kind of thing.

Rockstar have lost touch with how gamers play. Its the Miyamoto factor, if a gamer see's something and he goes to try it he should be rewarded in some small way. The game designer should have been there before the gamer and left his little bonus.

I climbed really high once and well....got nothing out of it. Got my sniper out and the cars had vanished, cars in the distance were just glowing lights. Helicopters literally spawn out of midair - but only when I'm looking the other way - wtf! There's one spot in the game where helicopters appear out of the water, I span around on the spot and they would always appear when I was looking the other way.

The way cops spawn out of nowhere is also seriously rubbish. Looking around before you steal a car or break a window is USELESS!! So many times I've thought it was clear only to suddenly find myself trying to get away.

I find it very strange that so many of these games journalists label this the best game ever or even close to it. It falls short on almost every single count in my eyes. Oh except one and thats SIZE. This game is proof that bigger is not better.

I have had so much more fun in completely linear games like Gears, Uncharted, COD4 and in sandbox games like Burnout, Crackdown, and even games like Hitman which give you small sandboxes at a time to play with and explore.

Thats what GTA should've been actually. A cross between Hitman, Burnout and Crackdown with a touch of gears/uncharted in for onfoot combat etc. Nailed it.

 

[Struct09]

No offense guys, but I'm calling bullshit. No way did you beat this mission on one or two tries. It is impossible.

Spoiler

You HAVE to go through it numerous times in order to know where the enemies are and which of them to pick off first. There are an ASSLOAD of them in the boat house, and from EVERYWHERE! Up top, down on the bottom, left, right, ever fucking where. Phil fucking dies by what seems like simple love taps!

Sorry but I simply don't believe you. If you did, I would like to know what strategy you used to get by the boat house portion on one or two tries without getting killed or letting Phil die.

This mission was way way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder than Three Leaf Clover!!!

I had body armor,

Spoiler

took cover behind the truck before going into the boat house, and just took out the guys one by one. I didn't even know Phil could die, he didn't even seem to help me out too much. The boat chase scene was even easier. I'm guessing that I got lucky with Phil's AI.

EDIT: Something I did that others might not have:

Spoiler

The mission tells you that the element of surprise is important, I was confused so when the guys at the boat house stopped my truck I kicked it into reverse. That didn't work, as they just started to shoot at me anyways. But it caused Phil and I start further away from the boat house.

As for Three Leaf Clover, I did fail it twice.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

I had body armor,

Spoiler

took cover behind the truck before going into the boat house, and just took out the guys one by one. I didn't even know Phil could die, he didn't even seem to help me out too much. The boat chase scene was even easier. I'm guessing that I got lucky with Phil's AI.

EDIT: Something I did that others might not have:

Spoiler

The mission tells you that the element of surprise is important, I was confused so when the guys at the boat house stopped my truck I kicked it into reverse. That didn't work, as they just started to shoot at me anyways. But it caused Phil and I start further away from the boat house.

As for Three Leaf Clover, I did fail it twice.

Passed this the first time, failed Three Leaf Clover once. This is an easy mission as long as you approach from a distant.

 

[Campster]

I can't seem to find a ranked play on my PS3 version, which annoys me. Quick play doesn't save my XP, and custom play just lets me create my own server - either way I can get to level 1 or 2 and then have to start over the next time I play. This is quite irksome.

 

[Red Blaster]

The media fucked up again on this one. I'm pretty pissed that they gave unanimous praise to such a "safe" game that was multiplatform when it clearly did not deserve it. I still like the game very much, but it's an A- at best.

I haven't finished the game yet, however I feel that I can declare San Andreas as the better game because it rewards the player so much more if they put effort towards exploring and discovering everything in the world. GTA IV is perhaps the most linear and scripted GTA yet. Rockstar's claim of "realism" as an excuse to remove features is grade-A bullshit and they should've been penalized for it. What happened to asset buying, driving school, location challenges, and race tournaments? There's barely anything to do in the new Liberty City. Rockstar just thought that since they have the fancy Euphoria physics they didn't have to add as much substance in GTA IV.

The story was awesome until you leave Broker, then it turns into muddled shit with seemingly random characters being added into the storyline at every other instance. The McReary family arc is quite good however the fact we have to work with the Mafia for the nth fucking time is inexcusable. Niko's initial portrayal as a man with a conscience who kills only when necessary turned out to be a farce as he eventually became the typical "I work for money" gangster.

And then there are the fucking chase missions over and over and over again. I'm positive that GTA IV has the most chase missions out of all the GTA games. I'll say that the missions where you have to raid a location (three leaf clover, late checkout, etc) are pretty good this time around thanks to the improved shooting, but the chase missions are awful. Also the fact that nigh all the missions are scripted and don't over you room to experiement is extremely dissapointing. Also some of the missions are just stupid and totally contradict Rockstar's initial claim of "realism", there's a mission where we have to kill someone who calls Bernie a faggot. And by kill, I mean chase him around the block on a motorcycle 18 times before he crashes and then you kill him only to have your wanted level hit 2 stars.

This game really need another 6 months in the oven.

 

[AnthonyP]

The media fucked up again on this one. I'm pretty pissed that they gave unanimous praise to such a "safe" game that was multiplatform when it clearly did not deserve it. I still like the game very much, but it's an A- at best.

I haven't finished the game yet, however I feel that I can declare San Andreas as the better game because it rewards the player so much more if they put effort towards exploring and discovering everything in the world. GTA IV is perhaps the most linear and scripted GTA yet. Rockstar's claim of "realism" as an excuse to remove features is grade-A bullshit and they should've been penalized for it. What happened to asset buying, driving school, location challenges, and race tournaments? There's barely anything to do in the new Liberty City. Rockstar just thought that since they have the fancy Euphoria physics they didn't have to add as much substance in GTA IV.

The story was awesome until you leave Broker, then it turns into muddled shit with seemingly random characters being added into the storyline at every other instance. The McReary family arc is quite good however the fact we have to work with the Mafia for the nth fucking time is inexcusable. Niko's initial portrayal as a man with a conscience who kills only when necessary turned out to be a farce as he eventually became the typical "I work for money" gangster.

And then there are the fucking chase missions over and over and over again. I'm positive that GTA IV has the most chase missions out of all the GTA games. I'll say that the missions where you have to raid a location (three leaf clover, late checkout, etc) are pretty good this time around thanks to the improved shooting, but the chase missions are awful. Also the fact that nigh all the missions are scripted and don't over you room to experiement is extremely dissapointing. Also some of the missions are just stupid and totally contradict Rockstar's initial claim of "realism", there's a mission where we have to kill someone who calls Bernie a faggot. And by kill, I mean chase him around the block on a motorcycle 18 times before he crashes and then you kill him only to have your wanted level hit 2 stars.

This game really need another 6 months in the oven.

Agree with you pretty big time

While we scored it relatively high (9.7 - Gamer 2.0) reviewing really large games like GTA with an open world and a long story with plenty of side missions and multiplayer is a really had thing to do for a publication. You really need a good long time with them, and since the reviews need to be published in a timely manner it's hard to offer a very perceptive critique of such a game in a short time span. Movies are much easier to critique because you experience them in their entirety within a couple of hours. After that, there's nothing else. With games like GTA, the problems pop up over time.

If I'm not mistaken the bigger sites had a full week or so with it under the watchful of eye of Rockstar. I find that practice to be complete bullshit, by the way. "We'll let the press play it early but they have to do it with our project managers in the room extolling the 'awesomeness' of the game."

That can really color the opinion of the most objective of reviewers trying not to let bias come into play. It happens all the time with hands on impressions of games since you're with PR people and product managers guiding your through an experience. It's very difficult to cut through the bull when covering games.

Here are some quick thoughts:

Chase missions everywhere: I haven't played through the entire game yet (didn't review it so I've taken my time with it) but the chase missions are a pain in the ass. The more realistic driving mechanics are nice to some extent but only a select few cars handle turns really well (the GT, for example, has great handling). Because of that it makes it really difficult to keep up with the computer, which has the handling down pat. Because it's difficult to drive, you cringe when you realized you've hit the 10th chase out of 15 missions.

Like a hot girl on MySpace: Good looks, little substance: The city is amazing and as a New Yorker I can attest to the accuracy of this recreation. The physics engine is amazing and the little details add so much realism to the experience. BUT they really dropped the ball in a lot of areas. When you're not doing missions, there's little else to do. Taxi fares? Vigilante? Ambulance missions? And there need to be WAY more mini games. Bowling, playing pool and throwing darts gets old fast. Coney Island should be bumping, despite the fact that it is kind of dying in real life. The lack of non-mission activities is really disappointing. While the TV is great, most of the programs are just endless reruns.

F*** Friends: Relationship building is a great idea on paper, but it was thrown in the microwave instead of the oven. Because of the lack of non-mission activities going out becomes repetitive. Let's go bowling. Let's shoot pool. Let's get shit faced. Let's throw darts. blah blah blah. I need something else to do when I go out. I hate when my friends call now. It's more work than play, and that's not good.

There was actually a good post on this site called InfoAddict called the 10 Things That Suck About GTA IV, and I found this bit noteworthy:

3. Ponderous Story

A lot of reviewers keep harping on the stellar, amazing, and unparalleled story, which makes me wonder if any of these guys actually watch movies or read books. The tale of Niko is nothing original, evidenced by hundreds of movies from the era of film noir, but what sets this apart from its cinematic cousins is the sheer ponderousness of the story. This is a plot that barely moves and keeps repeating itself over and over. As a character, Niko doesn't evolve and his actions have little impact on the game world, save for the ending, which is as empty as everything that preceded it.

The writers of GTA IV make a rookie mistake: they tell me, they don't show me. Telling me Niko is searching for his moral compass is of no use, especially when none of the elements manifest in terms of gameplay, save for a few rudimentary decisions that are no more than, "Kill Mr. X or Kill Mr. Y."

I also wrote an article called 5 Ideas for GTA V. It's a bit too long to post in its entirety here, but here's a snippet that I think would add a lot to the next game. I also have some other ideas I really like and hopefully you could post what you like here.

DIALOGUE TREES

Grand Theft Auto games are some of the most immersive around, but there is something missing in the experience: choice. Freedom of choice is the philosophy behind open world gameplay like the kind pioneered by Grand Theft Auto, yet its storytelling is locked into a very set narrative. While the narratives are great, it almost seems anti-GTA to not give the player some power over the plot.

This can easily be remedied with the addition of a dialogue tree reminiscent of the RPG genre, with last year's Xbox 360 hit Mass Effect providing the model for how it should be designed. It should not be as deep as in Mass Effect since you can sometimes become lost in a sea of backstory, but should at least provide options during cutscenes that can change the outcome of the game.