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[Emiru]

I cant pick up whores in any other vehicles except cars, i would love to pick up a whore in a motorcycle and when im done I pop a wheelie over her face.

 

[egocrata]

I won't really bother to list the other things people have mentioned (Mid-mission saving, Niko the Tank, etc. etc.) but I will go here;



Does anyone else feel like they're playing the same GTA that they've been playing since the original came out? The entire mission structure is just bland and repetitive; I feel like I've done every mission a dozen times before. You never feel like you're actually part of the story; you're just an outsider running through someone elses book. Aside from a few predetermined places, you have little to no control over how the story is actually playing out.

They need to completely rethink the mission structure. Right now, I'm doing missions for four seperate people and none of them really mean anything to me. The only thing you really do in these missions is follow orders; you never actually set anything up for yourself. Why can't I set up drug deals with rival bosses and betray them? Why can't I organize hits on people that piss me off? Why can't I kidnap daughters of mob bosses and decide what I want to do with them? Why can't I send a group of thugs to rob a bank and listen to it unfold on the radio?

And that´s why the Godfather was an awesome core game wrapped up in really shitty graphics, but still managed to be one of the most engaging sandbox games ever.

You really were doing you own thing most of the game, if you felt like it. I was gaining control of the town myself, and only working for the Corleones because it helped me, getting a better cut and allowing me to hire even more firepower.

Recruiting people and taking over a warehouse to make money for myself was fucking awesome. Period.

Oh, and the whole city is open since day one, by the way. If the missions are well designed, your progression follows naturally what the plot dictates; first Little Italy, and you only dare going to other places when your previous action give you enough respect so common thugs from other families no longer dare to shoot you.

That game was awesome. I really hope the sequel solves the "it looks like ass" problem. The Wii controls were the best ever in a game of its kind.

 

[Kyo]

Niko's initial portrayal as a man with a conscience who kills only when necessary turned out to be a farce as he eventually became the typical "I work for money" gangster.

I think the point where I realized the whole depth of Niko's character was nothing but a smoke screen was as early as when

Spoiler

he shoots Vlad in the head just for being an ass and supposedly having an affair with his cousin's girl.

I thought that was just ridiculous and it really made me question the quality of the writing big time.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

3. Ponderous Story

A lot of reviewers keep harping on the stellar, amazing, and unparalleled story, which makes me wonder if any of these guys actually watch movies or read books. The tale of Niko is nothing original, evidenced by hundreds of movies from the era of film noir, but what sets this apart from its cinematic cousins is the sheer ponderousness of the story. This is a plot that barely moves and keeps repeating itself over and over. As a character, Niko doesn't evolve and his actions have little impact on the game world, save for the ending, which is as empty as everything that preceded it.

The writers of GTA IV make a rookie mistake: they tell me, they don't show me. Telling me Niko is searching for his moral compass is of no use, especially when none of the elements manifest in terms of gameplay, save for a few rudimentary decisions that are no more than, "Kill Mr. X or Kill Mr. Y."

What a load of insultingly written horseshit.

Whatever stuck-up snob wrote that garbage needs to switch off Radio Broker, take off his designer white belt, stop bumping rails for a second on the bleachers next to the pick up Kickball game in McCarren Park and pay attention to what the game actually focuses on.

Niko's narrative, his drive for revenge and relationship with Roman, while expertly done (sincerely, just look to the duo's escape from Broker), is about 20% of the narrative missions' focus.

What makes the games narrative truly innovative and groundbreaking, is the amount of depth portrayed in nearly every single character you run into. For no specific reason (not as hints or clues or mission objectives) we are constantly introduced to inconsequential characters orbiting around a Mission Head's existence. And they're so convincingly rendered (meth addict, addled housewife, etc) that you can't help but piece together not just a convincing outside world, but the interior world of the characters. And that's done almost exclusively by showing and NOT telling.

There's never a "Ah, Niko. What can I tell you. That's my drug addicted wreck of a sister and boy is she ever stressing me out." You just see a completely natural exchange between two characters and draw your own conclusions.

It's really remarkable that some dimwit has to call out the eruditeness of a gamer when said nincompoop can't even discern what the game is not only trying to do, but is also wildly successful at doing.

I've been staying out of this thread because I happen to think this game is just absolutely exceptional and there's really no need to try and convince anyone otherwise. Personal preference is personal preference after all. But there's no fucking way I was going to let such a fucking elitist snobbish dig at gamers in general go unanswered.

 

[Pharmacy]

What a load of insultingly written horseshit.

Whatever stuck-up snob wrote that garbage needs to switch off Radio Broker, take off his designer white belt, stop bumping rails for a second on the bleachers next to the pick up Kickball game in McCarren Park and pay attention to what the game actually focuses on.

Niko's narrative, his drive for revenge and relationship with Roman, while expertly done (sincerely, just look to the duo's escape from Broker), is about 20% of the narrative missions' focus.

What makes the games narrative truly innovative and groundbreaking, is the amount of depth portrayed in nearly every single character you run into. For no specific reason (not as hints or clues or mission objectives) we are constantly introduced to inconsequential characters orbiting around a Mission Head's existence. And they're so convincingly rendered (meth addict, addled housewife, etc) that you can't help but piece together not just a convincing outside world, but the interior world of the characters. And that's done almost exclusively by showing and NOT telling.

There's never a "Ah, Niko. What can I tell you. That's my drug addicted wreck of a sister and boy is she ever stressing me out." You just see a completely natural exchange between two characters and draw your own conclusions.

It's really remarkable that some dimwit has to call out the eruditeness of a gamer when said nincompoop can't even discern what the game is not only trying to do, but is also wildly successful at doing.

I've been staying out of this thread because I happen to think this game is just absolutely exceptional and there's really no need to try and convince anyone otherwise. Personal preference is personal preference after all. But there's no fucking way I was going to let such a fucking elitist snobbish dig at gamers in general go unanswered.

*sips latte and adjusts beret and closes the lid of the macbook*

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

*sips latte and adjusts beret and closes the lid of the macbook*

Hey, there's just no need to assume that anyone who actually pays attention to what narrative really does has only just now in their 30's finished off the stack of Highlights For Children magazines their Grammie gave them at the tender age of three.

 

[Chinner]

*sips latte and adjusts beret and closes the lid of the macbook*

never change pharmacy, never change.

 

[AnthonyP]

What a load of insultingly written horseshit.

Whatever stuck-up snob wrote that garbage needs to switch off Radio Broker, take off his designer white belt, stop bumping rails for a second on the bleachers next to the pick up Kickball game in McCarren Park and pay attention to what the game actually focuses on.

Niko's narrative, his drive for revenge and relationship with Roman, while expertly done (sincerely, just look to the duo's escape from Broker), is about 20% of the narrative missions' focus.

What makes the games narrative truly innovative and groundbreaking, is the amount of depth portrayed in nearly every single character you run into. For no specific reason (not as hints or clues or mission objectives) we are constantly introduced to inconsequential characters orbiting around a Mission Head's existence. And they're so convincingly rendered (meth addict, addled housewife, etc) that you can't help but piece together not just a convincing outside world, but the interior world of the characters. And that's done almost exclusively by showing and NOT telling.

There's never a "Ah, Niko. What can I tell you. That's my drug addicted wreck of a sister and boy is she ever stressing me out." You just see a completely natural exchange between two characters and draw your own conclusions.

It's really remarkable that some dimwit has to call out the eruditeness of a gamer when said nincompoop can't even discern what the game is not only trying to do, but is also wildly successful at doing.

I've been staying out of this thread because I happen to think this game is just absolutely exceptional and there's really no need to try and convince anyone otherwise. Personal preference is personal preference after all. But there's no fucking way I was going to let such a fucking elitist snobbish dig at gamers in general go unanswered.

To be fair, the author of that article was taking a swipe at reviewers and not gamers. I'm a "reviewer" technically and I wasn't offended. Ease up a bit, everyone's entitled to an opinion. I didn't review GTA4, but thus far I kind of see what he's saying.

I need more time with the game, but after thinking about it I must say that Niko does have character progression and if he completely did a 180 and changed from who he was to what he becomes in Liberty City it wouldn't be true to the character. Niko acts the way he's used to acting. It's kind of telling to how many times we all say we want to change and try to change, and outside influences and situations cause us to stay how we are.

I'm not sure what my opinion of the stories and characters are yet. I'm just pontificating.

 

[Pharmacy]

Hey, there's just no need to assume that anyone who actually pays attention to what narrative really does has only just now in their 30's finished off the stack of Highlights For Children magazines their Grammie gave them at the tender age of three.

if you have to delve into a narrative to find some hidden metaphors and other such shit, the story is terrible. if the story just clicks and works and you never question it, its good

did anybody ever analyse Claude Speed as a character in GTA3? Donald Love? Kenji? Salvatore? No. Because we didnt need to, GTA3s narrative was just fuckin ballin without needing to discuss it. We just KNEW claude was a mute badass etc etc

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

To be fair, the author of that article was taking a swipe at reviewers and not gamers. I'm a "reviewer" technically and I wasn't offended. Ease up a bit, everyone's entitled to an opinion. I didn't review GTA4, but thus far I kind of see what he's saying.

I need more time with the game, but after thinking about it I must say that Niko does have character progression and if he completely did a 180 and changed from who he was to what he becomes in Liberty City it wouldn't be true to the character. Niko acts the way he's used to acting. It's kind of telling to how many times we all say we want to change and try to change, and outside influences and situations cause us to stay how we are.

I'm not sure what my opinion of the stories and characters are yet. I'm just pontificating.

That sentence insults anyone who picked up a controller and agrees with the sentiment that the game features an unprecedented level of narrative realism. Reviewer or Just Plain Gamer.

And yeah, everyone's welcome to their opinion, about subjective things, like games, not the relative ignorance or life experience of anyone who happens to have a certain opinion.

Niko's "character progression" is intrinsically tied to how you play the game. If you drive around listening to The Beat, running down anyone who gets in your way, then Niko is a remorseless and senseless killing machine.

If you play through the missions as given, if you treat it like the game gives you opportunity to, if you look at his actions as those done by someone who is trying to provide for his family, to make it through the city with the only skills he has, then it's, literally, a different story altogether.

As Niko himself says, "Life is complicated." And the game, at no point, attempts to simplify it. You're given opportunities to let people live, to get manipulated, to completely have your own personal connections and interpretations color the outcome of the game in significant ways.

I wouldn't dare expect a character that's been through what he's been through suddenly be so charmed by life experience to do a complete 180 and embrace life in all its forms. But, in the course of the game, he has several illuminating conversations about his justifications, his outlook on life, his experiences, all of that.

I really wonder if the people who think Niko's narrative is facile and empty had even bothered to go on a date with someone who he actually genuinely cared about, to go out drinking with someone they didn't just have to to progress the storyline, or had any significant interaction with the multitude of different kinds of people available in the game.

Because those are all inherently part of the narrative of the game. That's why they include dialogue in them.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

if you have to delve into a narrative to find some hidden metaphors and other such shit, the story is terrible. if the story just clicks and works and you never question it, its good

did anybody ever analyse Claude Speed as a character in GTA3? Donald Love? Kenji? Salvatore? No. Because we didnt need to, GTA3s narrative was just fuckin ballin without needing to discuss it. We just KNEW claude was a mute badass etc etc

Delve? What the fuck, dude. All I did was listen to the dialogue.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

From the official thread, unsolicited:

The other day, i was at the first cut scene where Mikhail's wife and Niko were just talking....like, just talking ,s tuff not related to plot, but CHARACTER BUILDING and I was like "Wow...I;m not sure if I've ever seen this in a game before". That was a brilliant scene.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Agree with you pretty big time

While we scored it relatively high (9.7 - Gamer 2.0) reviewing really large games like GTA with an open world and a long story with plenty of side missions and multiplayer is a really had thing to do for a publication. You really need a good long time with them, and since the reviews need to be published in a timely manner it's hard to offer a very perceptive critique of such a game in a short time span. Movies are much easier to critique because you experience them in their entirety within a couple of hours. After that, there's nothing else. With games like GTA, the problems pop up over time.

If I'm not mistaken the bigger sites had a full week or so with it under the watchful of eye of Rockstar. I find that practice to be complete bullshit, by the way. "We'll let the press play it early but they have to do it with our project managers in the room extolling the 'awesomeness' of the game."

That can really color the opinion of the most objective of reviewers trying not to let bias come into play. It happens all the time with hands on impressions of games since you're with PR people and product managers guiding your through an experience. It's very difficult to cut through the bull when covering games.

Here are some quick thoughts:

Chase missions everywhere: I haven't played through the entire game yet (didn't review it so I've taken my time with it) but the chase missions are a pain in the ass. The more realistic driving mechanics are nice to some extent but only a select few cars handle turns really well (the GT, for example, has great handling). Because of that it makes it really difficult to keep up with the computer, which has the handling down pat. Because it's difficult to drive, you cringe when you realized you've hit the 10th chase out of 15 missions.

Like a hot girl on MySpace: Good looks, little substance: The city is amazing and as a New Yorker I can attest to the accuracy of this recreation. The physics engine is amazing and the little details add so much realism to the experience. BUT they really dropped the ball in a lot of areas. When you're not doing missions, there's little else to do. Taxi fares? Vigilante? Ambulance missions? And there need to be WAY more mini games. Bowling, playing pool and throwing darts gets old fast. Coney Island should be bumping, despite the fact that it is kind of dying in real life. The lack of non-mission activities is really disappointing. While the TV is great, most of the programs are just endless reruns.

F*** Friends: Relationship building is a great idea on paper, but it was thrown in the microwave instead of the oven. Because of the lack of non-mission activities going out becomes repetitive. Let's go bowling. Let's shoot pool. Let's get shit faced. Let's throw darts. blah blah blah. I need something else to do when I go out. I hate when my friends call now. It's more work than play, and that's not good.

There was actually a good post on this site called InfoAddict called the 10 Things That Suck About GTA IV, and I found this bit noteworthy:



I also wrote an article called 5 Ideas for GTA V. It's a bit too long to post in its entirety here, but here's a snippet that I think would add a lot to the next game. I also have some other ideas I really like and hopefully you could post what you like here.

So much right btw you and redblaster's post.

Dialogue tree? Interesting. Would add something to GTA. And, Rockstar could take a page from other games: allow me to restart with some of the stats intact. A lot of people love the games and would replay the game, if given the chance. Many people, I think, tie the 100% goal to the completion of the game. How about you figure out a way to play and beat the main story, keep the stats, then allow people to keep progressing on the stats in a replay of the main story? Or allow people that have gotten 100% completion to replay any story, when ever they want. Belief is already suspended and it would be an incentive to beat the game. Just ideas. I think the main story is the real substance of the game. All the jumps and vigilante missions just add to the story.

Getting back to your post, a dialogue tree would be a great addition if you could replay it and get, say 7 different outcomes. Then, 'owning property' could make a difference. Either be a slum lord or playboy.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Getting back to your post, a dialogue tree would be a great addition if you could replay it and get, say 7 different outcomes. Then, 'owning property' could make a difference. Either be a slum lord or playboy.

How would owning property, being a slumlord, ever fit realistically into Niko Bellic's narrative.

You get an achievement for having $500,000, so lets assume that's a remarkably high level of wealth. Do you know what kind of building you could buy in New York City for $500,000?

No one's going to pay you to live in your newsstand or hot dog cart.

 

[Red Blaster]

From the official thread, unsolicited:

Yes, that was a great cutscene. However, as I said earlier, it all but disappears after you leave Broker. The McReary family arc is compelling and relatively well-fleshed out, but there are still a lot of filler characters and Roman just disappears completely.

You get an achievement for having $500,000, so lets assume that's a remarkably high level of wealth. Do you know what kind of building you could buy in New York City for $500,000?

Well it's a good thing that the game takes place in Liberty City then, where real-estate prices are likely more reasonable.

 

[Won]

From the official thread, unsolicited:

Well most complains are about what hapens after the first island. This specific scene was great and I, like everyone else, thought this game has an amazing story and characters. But what do you get after the first island? Worthless filler characters. They just get thorwn out of the window after a while. And after that, the game throws even more characters at you and it gets really hard to keep track, who is who and why I am doing what. (still great character there though)
And as the game goes on, character motivations disappear too. Roman is back in buisness, bigger then ever and Niko is pretty rich after a bank robbery. But many pre-mission cutscenes still brings up the "as long you pay" stuff. Why?
I don't even know why I did missions for Pegerino. They just were there to fill in and block your progress for Nikos actual story.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yes, that was a great cutscene. However, as I said earlier, it all but disappears after you leave Broker.

How so? That aspect of Niko's experience is completely expanded upon in later interactions and dates.

 

[Red Blaster]

How so? That aspect of Niko's experience is completely expanded upon in later interactions and dates.

The dates with Kate, yes. But she's part of the McReary arc. I'm talking about the filler bullshit like working with the Mafia or Bernie, who's a caricature straight out of the old "silly" GTA games.

 

[Pharmacy]

The dates with Kate, yes. But she's part of the McReary arc. I'm talking about the filler bullshit like working with the Mafia or Bernie, who's a caricature straight out of the old "silly" GTA games.

working with the mafia was the coolest bit

also the "silly" GTA games blow this "realistic" GTA game out the water

 

[Stoney Mason]

The dates with Kate, yes. But she's part of the McReary arc. I'm talking about the filler bullshit like working with the Mafia or Bernie, who's a caricature straight out of the old "silly" GTA games.

Bernie is weak (and worse overly a stereotype) and is mainly a link to tie into the finding the character you are searching for but there are plenty of moments where you see plenty of insight into Niko's character beyond the first island. It continues all through the game.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The dates with Kate, yes. But she's part of the McReary arc. I'm talking about the filler bullshit like working with the Mafia or Bernie, who's a caricature straight out of the old "silly" GTA games.

I liked a lot of the mafia missions. They went a long way to explaining how organized crime is basically falling apart in the 21st century. I'm only about 85% through the story, but I think I've met all the mob guys by now and done missions for them (Phil, Pegorino, and Ray), and none of them exhibited any of the kind of bullshit cliche of other games. I mean, look, there is a mafia in NYC. It's run by Italians. There's only so much you can stretch that into unique characters, but I think a lot of the conversations you have with them talk a lot about, as I said, the state of crime in the city, the cultural politics of the mob, all that. And it's not like you have to fish around for the subtext. It's all in the conversations.

And as far as them being filler bullshit, I don't know how it will ultimately turn out, but everything seems pretty intertwined at this point, all of it contributing in some way to Niko's search, or getting wrapped up in various complications from other jobs.

I'll give you Bernie, though. That's just straight up "comic" relief.

Bernie is weak and is mainly a link to tie into the finding the character you are searching for but there are plenty of moments where you see plenty of insight into Niko's character beyond the first island. It continues all through the game.

Thank you.

 

[RobertM]

That sentence insults anyone who picked up a controller and agrees with the sentiment that the game features an unprecedented level of narrative realism. Reviewer or Just Plain Gamer.

And yeah, everyone's welcome to their opinion, about subjective things, like games, not the relative ignorance or life experience of anyone who happens to have a certain opinion.

Niko's "character progression" is intrinsically tied to how you play the game. If you drive around listening to The Beat, running down anyone who gets in your way, then Niko is a remorseless and senseless killing machine.

That's not "character progression", that's "character creation". You are not progressing as a character by doing those, you are just creating a character for yourself by doing those things. You probably questioned yourself whether you should run a person over or shoot someone in the car, if you think the character you embodied feels repressed for doing those things, you won't do it, but at the end of the day the in-game character doesn't progress as you take those action.
I'll bring up oblivion for a second even though it is a bit of a different game. In Oblivion what you did reflected on how some of the characters would respond if you talked to them, but in GTA it is scripted since you will do only one thing or the other, and that will only affect one character or the other. Your actions don't reflect on society, your actions don't reflect on most of the characters, otherwise you wouldn't be able to progress. It is a scripted game, with a scripted character, with a scripted plot.
What I do like about the game is that it makes you think sometimes when it comes to choices, everything else though needs some work.

If you play through the missions as given, if you treat it like the game gives you opportunity to, if you look at his actions as those done by someone who is trying to provide for his family, to make it through the city with the only skills he has, then it's, literally, a different story altogether.

As Niko himself says, "Life is complicated." And the game, at no point, attempts to simplify it. You're given opportunities to let people live, to get manipulated, to completely have your own personal connections and interpretations color the outcome of the game in significant ways.

I wouldn't dare expect a character that's been through what he's been through suddenly be so charmed by life experience to do a complete 180 and embrace life in all its forms. But, in the course of the game, he has several illuminating conversations about his justifications, his outlook on life, his experiences, all of that.

I really wonder if the people who think Niko's narrative is facile and empty had even bothered to go on a date with someone who he actually genuinely cared about, to go out drinking with someone they didn't just have to to progress the storyline, or had any significant interaction with the multitude of different kinds of people available in the game.

Because those are all inherently part of the narrative of the game. That's why they include dialogue in them.

See you're just creating your own story not the story that was intended to be heard or seen through dialog and cut scenes.
You do not have an opportunity to go around those things. You HAVE to be manipulated, you HAVE to kill one or the other, it's a choice you can not choose. The outcomes it already set, because no matter which path you take, they all end at the same dot.

I do find Niko's narrative getting a bit empty, only a few characters bring out his other side or say something else besides "what's the pay". I went on some dates, boat rides, strip clubs, bowling, darts, billiards (pool). I did find some of the conversations fairly good, but the depth of those actions is minimal. Some of the things just do not feel natural and you'll see the nature of the game which puts you out of this immersive experience. I remember once I tried to finish one mission as fast as possible just to go on a date. She sounded grumpy when I called her in early morning, which I though was interesting since Michel just wouldn't pick up her phone. I did all Brucie's car/bike jacking jobs and I got nothing out of it except for money, and that's one of problems when it comes to rewards. They could have let me access his garage or get free repairs, but all I got is money.

On a side note I'm only half way through the game, and already made "the choice", so my opinion might change as I get further.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

See you're just creating your own story not the story that was intended to be heard or seen through dialog and cut scenes.

You do not have an opportunity to go around those things. You HAVE to be manipulated, you HAVE to kill one or the other, it's a choice you can not choose. The outcomes it already set, because no matter which path you take, they all end at the same dot.

I do find Niko's narrative getting a bit empty, only a few characters bring out his other side or say something else besides "what's the pay". I went on some dates, boat rides, strip clubs, bowling, darts, billiards (pool). I did find some of the conversations fairly good, but the depth of those actions is minimal. Some of the things just do not feel natural and you'll see the nature of the game which puts you out of this immersive experience. I remember once I tried to finish one mission as fast as possible just to go on a date. She sounded grumpy when I called her in early morning, which I though was interesting since Michel just wouldn't pick up her phone. I did all Brucie's car/bike jacking jobs and I got nothing out of it except for money, and that's one of problems when it comes to rewards. They could have let me access his garage or get free repairs, but all I got is money.

On a side note I'm only half way through the game, and already made "the choice", so my opinion might change as I get further.

Sorry, but where else would I be getting the story from?

There are a few choices to be made in the game, and yeah, they're not on any Mass Effect level of game-changing scale, but the game does give you ample opportunities to craft the nature of the story. It all takes place in the same sandbox. You can barrel through the game and never hang out with a friend or go on a date and it will seem like Niko's a pretty lonesome guy. But if you do take part in those activities, it's not like you slipshoot into another dimension until the next story.

Look:

You do a mission for Packie.
Afterwards you go to a strip club with Brucie.
Then a date with Michelle.
Then you watch some TV.

All of those are available options given to you by the developers. Yes, they might not have an impact on the "endgame", but you are absolutely creating your own narrative with your choices. You're creating a sequence of events and relationships. If you just push through those interactions, just pile on dinners and dates to get perks and ignore conversations or "skip" the activities, then you're not really experiencing it the way they're supposed to be experienced.

The game was crafted to give you the opportunity to space things out, to build a day-to-day existence for Niko Bellic.

 

[Shaheed79]

Should I or should I not jump on this Goomba? Now THAT's character progression!

 

[Revengeance]

Totally agree, BenjaminBirdie. I found the story deeply engrossing and satisfying.

I generally don't come into this thread, cause it usually just pisses me off, but I actually have a (very superficial) complaint: whyyyy did they make so many achievements multiplayer based!? I really want to thousand this game, out of love, but some of those achievements will be nigh impossible (esp Let Sleeping Rockstars Lie)


Also, <3<3<3 Radio Broker

Well it's a good thing that the game takes place in Liberty City then, where real-estate prices are likely more reasonable.

And VIPLuxuryRingtones(.com) are $100 dollars each :lol

 

[Red Blaster]

Bernie is weak (and worse overly a stereotype) and is mainly a link to tie into the finding the character you are searching for but there are plenty of moments where you see plenty of insight into Niko's character beyond the first island. It continues all through the game.

Such as? I've done close to 70 missions thus far and I haven't seen Niko progress much beyond his thirst of revenge on this Darko guy. And whatever the fuck happened to Bulgarin? Also if the general mission design of the game wasn't balls terrible, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with the mafia missions but it's all the same chase bullshit.


Here's another problem with the game. The fucking wanted circle thing. I just finished yet another chase mission for the mafia and the police got on my ass for some reason, I've jacked a helicopter and the respawning cops keep following me around making the circle bigger. Absolutely retarded.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Totally agree, BenjaminBirdie. I found the story deeply engrossing and satisfying.

I generally don't come into this thread, cause it usually just pisses me off, but I actually have a (very superficial) complaint: whyyyy did they make so many achievements multiplayer based!? I really want to thousand this game, out of love, but some of those achievements will be nigh impossible (esp Let Sleeping Rockstars Lie)

I agree with that. I can't see myself playing very much Multi at all. But I'll be satisfied with just getting all the SP achievements. Did the same for Crackton.

 

[RobertM]

Sorry, but where else would I be getting the story from?

There are a few choices to be made in the game, and yeah, they're not on any Mass Effect level of game-changing scale, but the game does give you ample opportunities to craft the nature of the story. It all takes place in the same sandbox. You can barrel through the game and never hang out with a friend or go on a date and it will seem like Niko's a pretty lonesome guy. But if you do take part in those activities, it's not like you slipshoot into another dimension until the next story.

Look:

You do a mission for Packie.
Afterwards you go to a strip club with Brucie.
Then a date with Michelle.
Then you watch some TV.

All of those are available options given to you by the developers. Yes, they might not have an impact on the "endgame", but you are absolutely creating your own narrative with your choices. You're creating a sequence of events and relationships. If you just push through those interactions, just pile on dinners and dates to get perks and ignore conversations or "skip" the activities, then you're not really experiencing it the way they're supposed to be experienced.

The game was crafted to give you the opportunity to space things out, to build a day-to-day existence for Niko Bellic.

By doing those activities you're only changing your perception of the character from lonesome to alright guy with stained hands, but not the character himself which in fact stays what he is no matter what you do outside the story realm. To me all of those things fall outside the realm of story development and character development, and essentially what's outside is the "game".
I like options, but a lot of similar games have greater options, but I won't condone one or the other. You are not creating your narrative, the narrative is given to you based on what you're doing, but indeed you're creating your own story. See I'm not feeling anything when I'm doing all those things, rewards are minimal and in no way shape or form does it change the outcome, characters perception of me or the main story. I'm not really sure what I was suppose to experience, because the last time I went on the date they didn't show me the characters eating and engaging in a conversation, all I experienced was a delivery mission with a narrative in between. Essentially the "game" aspect was in the way of immersion.
Too bad this is not a life simulator otherwise there would be some incentive to shape and mold Bellic's everyday life. Can you do it? Perhaps, but not to an extent that his life has many opportunities to choose from.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Here's another problem with the game. The fucking wanted circle thing. I just finished yet another chase mission for the mafia and the police got on my ass for some reason, I've jacked a helicopter and the respawning cops keep following me around making the circle bigger. Absolutely retarded.

I actually found the arbitrariness more retarded. I was getting chased by the cops and their circle JUST ended right before a roadblock on the bridge. I'm talking maybe three car lengths away. But somehow that row of Barney Fifes all happened to be looking everywhere but right at the van in front of them for entire time it took me to stand still and wear down my Wanted Level.

 

[chriskun]

Sorry, but where else would I be getting the story from?

There are a few choices to be made in the game, and yeah, they're not on any Mass Effect level of game-changing scale, but the game does give you ample opportunities to craft the nature of the story. It all takes place in the same sandbox. You can barrel through the game and never hang out with a friend or go on a date and it will seem like Niko's a pretty lonesome guy. But if you do take part in those activities, it's not like you slipshoot into another dimension until the next story.

Look:

You do a mission for Packie.
Afterwards you go to a strip club with Brucie.
Then a date with Michelle.
Then you watch some TV.

All of those are available options given to you by the developers. Yes, they might not have an impact on the "endgame", but you are absolutely creating your own narrative with your choices. You're creating a sequence of events and relationships. If you just push through those interactions, just pile on dinners and dates to get perks and ignore conversations or "skip" the activities, then you're not really experiencing it the way they're supposed to be experienced.

The game was crafted to give you the opportunity to space things out, to build a day-to-day existence for Niko Bellic.

What is all those things sort of suck though??? I think thats the problem with this game, all the "minigames" are just not that great. It feels like filler.

 

[Creamium]

Totally agree, BenjaminBirdie. I found the story deeply engrossing and satisfying.

I generally don't come into this thread, cause it usually just pisses me off, but I actually have a (very superficial) complaint: whyyyy did they make so many achievements multiplayer based!? I really want to thousand this game, out of love, but some of those achievements will be nigh impossible (esp Let Sleeping Rockstars Lie)


Also, <3<3<3 Radio Broker




And VIPLuxuryRingtones(.com) are $100 dollars each :lol

I agree with you, but 'so many'? only about 10/50 achievements are mp based, of which 2 are already unlocked when you play a couple of matches and another few are not that hard to get or so I hear.

 

[Ceb]

I like shaping my "own" version of Niko. Too bad it all falls apart when the game forces you to do stuff you don't want to, like killing Mikhail.

Lots of things about GTAIV seem really promising at first, but they kinda fizzle out. Great buildup, no climax.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Such as? I've done close to 70 missions thus far and I haven't seen Niko progress much beyond his thirst of revenge on this Darko guy. And whatever the fuck happened to Bulgarin? Also if the general mission design of the game wasn't balls terrible, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with the mafia missions but it's all the same chase bullshit.

My point was insight into the character's mindset and motivations and world view. I see insight into many characters in gangster movies that do bad things all the time. And the choices presented by the end of the story do show progression depending on your choices you make. The mission design aspect is subjective. You may not like it. Others might. I try not to argue on those issues that are purely subjective.

 

[Revengeance]

I agree with you, but 'so many'? only about 10/50 achievements are mp based, of which 2 are already unlocked when you play a couple of matches and another few are not that hard to get or so I hear.

Ok, I was exaggerating a bit, but I still wish that they had gone with all sp achievements

 

[Vaxadrin]

ITT: Lots & lots of people who suck at GTA4.

 

[Pharmacy]

ITT: Lots & lots of people who suck at GTA4.

ITT: people with opinions on a game that isnt a masterpiece despite what people think

 

[Red Blaster]

i'm a daft bitch

Cool.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

Why havent any reviews brought up how terrible the lead voice actor is? He does a terrible impression of a Russian accent

 

[Chinner]

i thought he was pretty good, dunno about accents but his voice was convincing.

 

[Doc Evils]

Why havent any reviews brought up how terrible the lead voice actor is? He does a terrible impression of a Russian accent

He's Serbian. :lol

 

[Stoney Mason]

i thought he was pretty good, dunno about accents but his voice was convincing.

The emotion is the major part of conveying the character. Whether his accent was authentic enough was fairly immaterial to me. I thought the voice actor did a fine job with the material and having me relate. Someone else is free to disagree of course.

Sunday May 4,2008
By Mike Parker

A STRUGGLING actor and musician who once busked on trains has suddenly become one of the most sought-after male leads in Hollywood – thanks to the world’s biggest video game.

Most television fans will never have heard of shy, bespectacled Michael Hollick since he has only had four small roles in episodes of the crime series Law and Order.


Add to that a handful of equally minor parts in off-Broadway plays and low-paying club gigs, and it is easy to understand why his modest CV has barely been noticed in Tinseltown.


Now casting directors from at least three major studios are begging Hollick to star in big-budget movie projects and industry experts predict he will soon be commanding huge fees in the celebrity big league.


Hollick, 38, has catapulted from zero to hero virtually overnight after being cast as the “voice” of criminal mastermind Niko Bellic in the video game Grand Theft Auto IV, which launched last week.


Such is the popularity of the series, the latest instalment is expected to rake in more than £200million worldwide by Friday, with at least half a million copies sold in Britain alone.


That is more than this month’s two movie blockbusters, Iron Man and the latest Indiana Jones epic, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, can hope to achieve in such a short time.


And Hollick, whose voice as Niko already has millions of gamers enthralled, is about to claim his sizeable share of the Grand Theft Auto boom – despite being paid a reported mere £12,000 for two weeks of studio work.


One Hollywood producer told the Sunday Express yesterday: “He is the talk of internet chatrooms around the planet and very, very much the man of the moment. The way things now work is that what’s big in the gaming world today is big in the motion picture industry tomorrow and that’s the way it’s heading for Michael.”


Hollick’s character is a Serbian US immigrant and veteran of the war in Bosnia. The producer added: “Michael’s menacing eastern European accent is a stand-out feature of the game. He has become a cult hero.


“Javier Bardem came from nowhere to win an Oscar for his performance as a killer in No Country for Old Men. Expect Michael to do something similar.”

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/43330/Game-will-make-Michael-a-killing

 

[Vaxadrin]

ITT: people with opinions on a game that isnt a masterpiece despite what people think

*sips latte and adjusts beret and closes the lid of the macbook*

 

[Pharmacy]

*sips latte and adjusts beret and closes the lid of the macbook*

*watches anime and masterbates self to sleep*

pwning u itt

 

[Ploid 3.0]

It took me a while to realize GTA4 wasn't what I was expecting. When I first get a GTA (started at 3, skipped the gta expansions *stories) I truck through the missions until I unlock enough or everything worth unlocking. Now that I think I reached that point in GTA4 I started going to the meat of the game for me.

When you aren't doing missions, things get boring fast in this gta. There are very few codes. There is no lock wanted level code, gang to aggrivate, zones where gangs attack you without you provoking them, and so on. Forget tanks, there is no code that cause you to blow other cars up by touching them. I expected this game to make my fun crazy rampages in SA obsolete even though there is no countryside in this game. San Andreas is far from obsolete -_-. I freely gave away Vice City after obtaining SA, I was going to get rid of SA when I got this but I'm glad I found no one to give it to fast enough.

I'm sorry I caused some people to get this game. I should have got CoD4 as planned.

 

[shuri]

I fail to see how Nico is a deep character. I found the main character of GTA:SA far more entertaining. Benjadmin's harping about 'taking girls out, going out with friends, and doing missions' is somewhat hilarious considering you could do each and every one of those things, better even, in GTA San Andreas (well the whole taking friends out angle was not really exploited).

GTA:SA's character was a guy born of the ghetto who had a motivation to get out of it; and but was completly caught up in the whole Grove Street bullshit.

Niko is completly incoherent most of the time.. I like how he harps about finding out who killed his squad and how he's trying to find a new life in America, and he talks to Michelle and his cousin about how he's tired of criminal life and how crazy are..

But he turns around and gun down Vlad because he comes home one night and the cousin is emo about him banging his girl. WHY?! WHY THE SUDDEN OUTBURST OF VIOLENCE?!

CJ was a faaaaaaar better character, and as a matter of fact, I think that GTA:SA was way better than GTA4, on just about every level, except for graphics, for obvious reasons.

Niko feels like he was written by a team of 30 people.

Overall, GTA4 has far less gameplay options and overall wayyy crappier execution than GTA:SA

 

[knitoe]

Yes I am. Why, does playing with it on make some missions easier? I would hate to have to resort to turning it on though, seems cheesy.

Auto-lock allows you to easily find out where bad guys are standing even if they are way in the background. You could quickly move from 1 target to the next. Most useful in open environments. Probably makes the game 100X more easy.

 

[Rapping Granny]

Online. and people who can't make up their minds on which team to choose and how stupid hosts have games with weak ass weapons with small teams and that are kilometeres away from each other.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I fail to see how Nico is a deep character. I found the main character of GTA:SA far more entertaining. Benjadmin's harping about 'taking girls out, going out with friends, and doing missions' is somewhat hilarious considering you could do each and every one of those things, better even, in GTA San Andreas (well the whole taking friends out angle was not really exploited).

GTA:SA's character was a guy born of the ghetto who had a motivation to get out of it; and but was completly caught up in the whole Grove Street bullshit.

Niko is completly incoherent most of the time.. I like how he harps about finding out who killed his squad and how he's trying to find a new life in America, and he talks to Michelle and his cousin about how he's tired of criminal life and how crazy are..

But he turns around and gun down Vlad because he comes home one night and the cousin is emo about him banging his girl. WHY?! WHY THE SUDDEN OUTBURST OF VIOLENCE?!

CJ was a faaaaaaar better character, and as a matter of fact, I think that GTA:SA was way better than GTA4, on just about every level, except for graphics, for obvious reasons.

Niko feels like he was written by a team of 30 people.

Overall, GTA4 has far less gameplay options and execution than GTA:SA

CJ and Niko share some characteristics. Both come from poor backgrounds and try to improve themselves through criminal life. The difference being they choose to articulate that concept much better with Niko as an internal conflict.

He kills Vlad because he loves his cousin. Doesn't like Vlad in the first place and gets sick of his shit and kills him. About the farthest thing from "emo". Which is really a tired word in the first place.

He is conflicted because he is in a life of crime he doesn't want to do but feels he doesn't have the skills to do anything better and feels like he is such a low character in a sense he in some way deserves this fate.

 

[knitoe]

Just wondering, how much money does everyone have at the end? Ended up with 770K. Don't see the point why Rockstar gave you so much cash since you can't really do anything with it.

 

[Struct09]

Just wondering, how much money does everyone have at the end? Ended up with 770K. Don't see the point why Rockstar gave you so much cash since you can't really do anything with it.

I had about 850k when I finished the story missions