I guess that's one way to make your platform the most powerful. Cripple the main development engines on other platforms.
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Tim Sweeney say earlier praise has nothing to do with Sony's $250 million dollar investment
- Thread starter Jigsaah
- Start date
I guess that's one way to make your platform the most powerful. Cripple the main development engines on other platforms.
Hero_Select
Member
Sure Tim, sure.
Evangelion Unit-01
Master Chief
Tim has been very complimentary of the PlayStation brand over the past decade. Tim has also had some beef with Microsoft/Xbox over the years (some warranted criticism and some unfounded). On the other hand Epic made Gears of War for Microsoft and seemingly split from that deal on good terms and it wasn't too long ago that Epic and Sony were hashing out crossplay in the press. There is a lot of history at play here.
I think there was an opportunity for the demo with Sony and he took it. It’s certainly a company that he has some fondness for. I think the investment is largely just icing on the cake. Epic was looking for another round of funding already and would have certainly found an investor. It does seem likely that this Sony deal was in progress before the May demo as well.
As far as the equity Sony now has in Epic goes I am certain this is Sony investing in someone they view as a long term partner.
Going into next gen there is certain to be a content war-especially with the move to subscription models. Sony wants to pump games out faster. Sony has spent a lot of dev time over the past gen on engine work and frankly wasted time and missed potential revenue in the process. Naughty Dog and Guerrilla both have their own proprietary engines. Moving their first party to unreal would undoubtably create synergies for them. In addition it would significantly cut down on development time and allow for the studios to pump games out at a much faster rate. Sony’s portfolio is exclusively singleplayer so they miss out on microtransaction revenue that Microsoft is able to cash in on with their slant towards multiplayer experiences. This makes it even more important for Sony to put out games with shorter intervals. As a side note-I do think we will see more MP focused Sony games in the coming years. Using a standard off the shelf engine like unreal will also make onboarding new talent easier for Sony as there will not be a knowledge barrier for new hires. This deal also be a win for epic who will now see their 5% cut on Sony first party games; something that wouldn’t happen with Sony on their proprietary engines.
Sony is also in need of a PC platform as their new strategy is seemingly close to Microsoft’s. Over the next several years we will see more PlayStation titles in PC as they reposition PlayStation as a platform rather than a console. Microsoft has elected to make their games available via Xbox app and Steam. Sony is in need of an app and rather than reinvent the wheel themselves they can partner with Epic on this one. It would not surprise me if Sony was exempt from the cut that epic takes on games. For Epic having Sony titles on EGS would get people in the door who would then spend money on other games on the epic game store and help position them as a stronger player in the pc digital market.
All of that said as much as Epic is linked to Sony now they do not want to burn Microsoft. Epic wants to continue to receive their cut on revenue from Xbox first party titles games made using Unreal, like Rare’s games and Gears. It would also not be in Epics interest to decrease unreal’s support for Xbox as that would upset third party devs trying to make games for all platforms. What will be interesting to see is if Microsoft moves to make some of their propriety engines like Halo’s Slipspace engine or Forza tech more widely available to their first party studios in an attempt to build synergies and provide some standardization.
I think there was an opportunity for the demo with Sony and he took it. It’s certainly a company that he has some fondness for. I think the investment is largely just icing on the cake. Epic was looking for another round of funding already and would have certainly found an investor. It does seem likely that this Sony deal was in progress before the May demo as well.
As far as the equity Sony now has in Epic goes I am certain this is Sony investing in someone they view as a long term partner.
Going into next gen there is certain to be a content war-especially with the move to subscription models. Sony wants to pump games out faster. Sony has spent a lot of dev time over the past gen on engine work and frankly wasted time and missed potential revenue in the process. Naughty Dog and Guerrilla both have their own proprietary engines. Moving their first party to unreal would undoubtably create synergies for them. In addition it would significantly cut down on development time and allow for the studios to pump games out at a much faster rate. Sony’s portfolio is exclusively singleplayer so they miss out on microtransaction revenue that Microsoft is able to cash in on with their slant towards multiplayer experiences. This makes it even more important for Sony to put out games with shorter intervals. As a side note-I do think we will see more MP focused Sony games in the coming years. Using a standard off the shelf engine like unreal will also make onboarding new talent easier for Sony as there will not be a knowledge barrier for new hires. This deal also be a win for epic who will now see their 5% cut on Sony first party games; something that wouldn’t happen with Sony on their proprietary engines.
Sony is also in need of a PC platform as their new strategy is seemingly close to Microsoft’s. Over the next several years we will see more PlayStation titles in PC as they reposition PlayStation as a platform rather than a console. Microsoft has elected to make their games available via Xbox app and Steam. Sony is in need of an app and rather than reinvent the wheel themselves they can partner with Epic on this one. It would not surprise me if Sony was exempt from the cut that epic takes on games. For Epic having Sony titles on EGS would get people in the door who would then spend money on other games on the epic game store and help position them as a stronger player in the pc digital market.
All of that said as much as Epic is linked to Sony now they do not want to burn Microsoft. Epic wants to continue to receive their cut on revenue from Xbox first party titles games made using Unreal, like Rare’s games and Gears. It would also not be in Epics interest to decrease unreal’s support for Xbox as that would upset third party devs trying to make games for all platforms. What will be interesting to see is if Microsoft moves to make some of their propriety engines like Halo’s Slipspace engine or Forza tech more widely available to their first party studios in an attempt to build synergies and provide some standardization.
The Alien
Banned
I dont care about the deal. It's a good deal, but he shoulda been upfront. He says he's been working with them for months. Which means they've been getting paid for months. Now all those verbal blowjobs are more understandable.
(Sigh)....frankly I expected more from Sony - a company that's suppressed and copyright claimed opinions they dont like. While Epic, after stealing their golden goose from a client, sold part of their soul to China.
(Sigh)....frankly I expected more from Sony - a company that's suppressed and copyright claimed opinions they dont like. While Epic, after stealing their golden goose from a client, sold part of their soul to China.
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itsjustJEFF
Member
You sure about that, Bob?
Tim Sweeney says Sony's investment in Epic has nothing to do with his earlier PlayStation 5 praise
Investment talks began after the Unreal Engine 5 tech demo, he says.www.pcgamer.com
$250 Million definitely kinda helps in the "praising" department. But damn, for a company like Epic, with a valuation of $17 Billion, to be on them nuts that much for just $250 Million! Imagine all the action that's happening for the companies that fronted the $1.8 Billion. That much praise for only $250 Million, that's a steal, There could be a chance that he might just be really happy with the PS5 architecture? Is that a possibility? Asking for a friend.
At this point, for some, there's really nothing Tim could do or say that would convince them otherwise. If I was Tim, I'd just give up. There's really no point. Frankly, I don't think Tim really gives a fuck. He doesn't seem very bothered by any of the fanboys, PC/PS/Xbox, he knows they'll still buy games made with UE5 and Epic games.
Edit: PS keep talking about "made for developers, by developers" The systems architect is a game dev. He designed a system for people like him. Tim Sweeney is a game dev. Maybe there's a chance that he really likes the PS5 because it was designed for devs, like him. There's probably even a really good chance Tim is one of the devs that Cerny has meetings with about what they'd like to see in new hardware.
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RaySoft
Member
This is telling that Sony is "in it to win it".. They have their own engines, but they acknowledge that 3rd parties use mostly Unreal Engine, so this vote at the table could turn out to be significant for them in the long run.
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MrTroubleMaker
Member
tim loves money ... will say anything for it
jakinov
Member
All Sweeney did was praise the SSD and the technology around it and said the system was really balanced. You would think he’d be taking a lot more shit and being more explicitly in favor of the PS5 over the Xbox if he was getting paid to. A lot of you are just butthurt he didn’t praise Xbox for having a slightly better clock rate on the CPU, a bit of faster RAM and for shoving in extra CUs. Technical people aren’t going to care about that stuff because it’s not innovative or new, it doesn’t solve problems or make things meaningfully easier for devs. It’s iterative, Sony could have asked for the same thing, and you can find even better tech elsewhere.
I don’t see why people can’t accept that the SSD is a big deal and that Sony did a good job with it. And why they need to create some absurd conspiracy theory when other technical people have said good things about it too. It was a bunch of smart technical people who came up withthe design too who likely consulted a bunch of devs who arguably some of the best looking games in the industry. Not a bunch of people who put PCs together like LEGO.
I don’t see why people can’t accept that the SSD is a big deal and that Sony did a good job with it. And why they need to create some absurd conspiracy theory when other technical people have said good things about it too. It was a bunch of smart technical people who came up withthe design too who likely consulted a bunch of devs who arguably some of the best looking games in the industry. Not a bunch of people who put PCs together like LEGO.
Which forthcoming high end PC SSD do I need to buy(say price is no barrier) for my pretty crappy PC to get it to perform above the performance(fps, resolution, graphics settings, AI behavior etc..) of the PS5 do you know?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Sports
The New York Yankees are happy to announce tonight's telecast is brought to you from the good people at Coca-Cola! Enjoy a refreshing bottle of Coke during the summer or when you come to Yankee Stadium.
Video games
Sony would like to show you a presentation from Epic Games.
Thanks Jim Ryan. Here's our great UE5 demo. Look how great 1440p/30 is. But I want to make sure that were doing this in the goodness of our hearts as a friend to gamers. It's not like we have a deal worth millions of dollars or anything. So for any of you asking, it has nothing to do with money and if we do end up striking a deal, which is outed in the next few months, I promise it doesn't have anything to do with today's demo, the gushing over PS5 specs, or the fact we wont be doing detailed UE5 demos on the other console or Windows based electronics platforms either.
The New York Yankees are happy to announce tonight's telecast is brought to you from the good people at Coca-Cola! Enjoy a refreshing bottle of Coke during the summer or when you come to Yankee Stadium.
Video games
Sony would like to show you a presentation from Epic Games.
Thanks Jim Ryan. Here's our great UE5 demo. Look how great 1440p/30 is. But I want to make sure that were doing this in the goodness of our hearts as a friend to gamers. It's not like we have a deal worth millions of dollars or anything. So for any of you asking, it has nothing to do with money and if we do end up striking a deal, which is outed in the next few months, I promise it doesn't have anything to do with today's demo, the gushing over PS5 specs, or the fact we wont be doing detailed UE5 demos on the other console or Windows based electronics platforms either.
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[
There is a difference between saying a few nice things about the PS5 and going on a world press tour for Sony and ignore the other platforms outright refusing to acknowledge them at times. A 3rd party engine maker does not do that out of the kindness of their hearts. You can admit that it was fishy and now it makes sense. Then add in the custom IO rewrite Sony got and other optimizations. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I believe him. The guy and his team had a pivotal role in the design of the PS5, so it makes sense he holds it in high regard. This deal probably followed the positive impact of the collaboration.
This is the kind of thing Microsoft should have fostered with the X360 going into the X1, but instead MS and Epic parted ways.
This is the kind of thing Microsoft should have fostered with the X360 going into the X1, but instead MS and Epic parted ways.
Oddvintagechap
Member
This is obviously a recent event.
Its not a take over. Sony literally will have no say in anything. They will cash out in a few years. Some... alot of you are so extra.
Its not a take over. Sony literally will have no say in anything. They will cash out in a few years. Some... alot of you are so extra.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Get off of Twitter for the weekend, Tim. You're drunk.
Evangelion Unit-01
Master Chief
Both platforms are in to win in their own way. I don't think anyone would imagine Xbox could take the lead globally but they aim to make it a tighter race, get out ahead early, and be a market disruptor. I think they could do that if they manage to execute on their strategy.
It's interesting-my read is that there was definitely a bit of either a strategy conflict or a rapid change within Sony as the groundwork for the gen was laid out about 2-3 years ago. I do not think the PS5 had a smooth design phase but with new leadership they seem to have found a new strategy.
It's even more interesting that both Microsoft and Sony have both reached the same conclusion on what the next decade will bring and are positioning their systems as platforms. Microsoft is leaning heavy into strengths in services, cloud, and tech while acquiring new studios to round out their weaknesses on the software side. Sony is similarly tapping into their software strength by increasing throughput with new studio acquisitions and partnering with epic to provide standardized engine tech to shorten dev cycles; meanwhile compensating for their weakness on the tech side with their new Microsoft partnership.
It's pretty cool. Neither company is letting themselves be shackled by an old way of doing things but instead are actively making choices to strengthen their positions and prepare themselves for the changing landscape to come.
LordOfChaos
Member
Yall acting like a 1.5% stake in a $17 billion dollar company is enough for this to be some kind of conspiracy. Tim had also praised the PS4 and the PS3 before it, was he playing some decade and a half long game for 1.5% of what his company is worth? OR, was he just speaking up about his preferred platform, like he always has been?
Cert.in.Death
Member
Eh, he might be honest on this one, only because the amount is comparatively little for somebody who already is considered a multi-billionaire. Granted, the stocks are likely from his holdings, so that $250 million is likely going straight to him, so I’m not sure.
I think his praise for PS5 is due more to wanting to get cozy with Sony so they use his engine and allow him to further corner the market, not because of their investment.
I think his praise for PS5 is due more to wanting to get cozy with Sony so they use his engine and allow him to further corner the market, not because of their investment.
Gamerguy84
Member
Lol from the title all the way down this thread is bait and pointless. No one is going to convince any PS haters that Tim said what he said and meant it.
Tim isnt the only one though, there have been several others.
Tim isnt the only one though, there have been several others.
nikolino840
Member
So for you is nothing that a big worldwide company like sony invest in Epic?
For them doesn't care also who invest and not how much?
BusierDonkey
Member
Tim is the foot that just keeps in the mouthing.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Sure thing Tim, really believable
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Kagey K
Banned
Obviously was an impulse buy,
Sony woke up yesterday and decided they had too much money and had to spend it somewhere.
Otherwise its called courtship.
Had he kept the praise reasonable, I dont think anyone would have a problem with it, it’s when he got hyperbolic that it turned into.
jakinov
Member
There are "faster" ones that are either already out this year or coming out sometime this year I don’t follow that attentively as I don't plan on buying. However, it won’t have any of the custom hardware around the SSD that’s going to effectively enable you get more data without sacrificing other resources (or actually having an even faster SSD) and a bunch of other components that are aimed to reduce other bottlenecks and reduce CPU/GPU usage in relation to getting data into memory or keeping relevant data on the GPU. So you are basically going to need extra compute power to compensate for any work the CPU/GPU and/or buy a SSD that much faster you don't need to worry about the work eliminated from the dedicated hardware.
Most existing games are already designed around not being able to rely on having fast access to a shit ton of data (e.g. blocked off areas, no back-tracking, cutscenes, lifting/climbing sequences, etc.), so you probably aren't going to see much improvement in old games for the metrics you mentioned. You might see small negligible improvements as a faster SSD can help reduce CPU/GPU for workloads requiring data from secondary storage (which would rare for old games because they just cache everything in RAM ahead of time because they have more of a just-in-case strategy). But for future new game, depending on the exact workloads and how it's designed you should probably see improvements as both Microsoft and PlayStation are expecting developers to have more of a "just-in-time" strategy to memory usage.
So to answer your question you'd need an SSD twice as fast probably (don't know which ones will be available) to offload some work off your GPU/CPU and get the same effective speeds but you probably won't get the same targets with your crappy everything else, closer on future games for sure. You can't get any of the other components that come with the PS5 SSD that Epic and everyone praises that let you use your existing crappy GPU and CPU more effectively for future games. So having a crappier CPU/GPU than a PS5 while not being able to be as efficient will not let you match it with getting an SSD alone.
They had one event. It's already been established that PlayStation wanted Epic to help them demo their engine using the PS5. Which isn't crazy Microsoft, Apple and others have done the same thing with Epic when showing off new things. They aren't going to talk about the Xbox during their PS5 event. That'd be like them talking about Apple when going on the Microsoft stage or talking about Google when they go on the Apple stage. A 3rd party engine maker who has a nerd as the CEO who likes to talk about tech and be vocal about what he thinks is cool or doesn't like. Nothing new. John Carmack who was also basically a 3rd party-engine developer used to praise the 360 all the time. Because he's a nerd and likes talking about tech that's interesting. Gabe Newell also liked to praise and also throw shade at the 360. Epic and Crytek use to love to praise the cell on the PS3. Crytek even praised DX 11 on Xbox One. Technical people or nerds like to talk about and excited by cool tech and the PS5 SSD is cool tech.
Why wouldn't they write custom things to take advantage of the platform their engine is going to support? Epic does custom things for Apple devices and is likely going to do custom things for Xbox as well if it's needed. They have an interest in making sure their engine works the best that it can on every platform. Not worry about if they are spending too much time on one platform or another. And if they do spend extra time on the PS5 it's arguably more likely because it shakes things up more and is the more popular platform. They wouldn't need to do anything special for having a CPU that's a bit faster, having RAM that's a bit faster or having extra GPU power. Because that shits expected and doesn't warrant special optimizations because it's nothing special/new about it. Not much different from a high-end PC that they already support.
danielJackson
Banned
So what? Playstation is still 20x stronger brand than xbox, no surprise if other companies want to do business rather with global popular brand, than with brand that is popular on US only.
I believe that 250m did affect to it, but not 250m dollars, 250 million Playstation fans over the world.
I believe that 250m did affect to it, but not 250m dollars, 250 million Playstation fans over the world.
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AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Reminds me of that Chappelle skit making fun of R. Kelly.
"You give me that kind of money R. Kelly can fart in my dinner tonight" lol
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Lethal01
Member
Guess he didn't want to directly say that you couldn't get this level of fidelity on on the Series X, it would have been too mean spirited.
Kenpachii
Member
You sure about that, Bob?
Tim Sweeney says Sony's investment in Epic has nothing to do with his earlier PlayStation 5 praise
Investment talks began after the Unreal Engine 5 tech demo, he says.
Sorry tim, u are paid shill now.
Timberwolf25
Member
I believe him!!!
No I really don't.
No I really don't.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Pople can’t accept this because it is bullshit, simple as that. «shoving in extra CUs» , newsflash that’s what every graphics card developer in the world does to increase the power of a GPU, every time an attempt has been made with simply overclocking (see some ATI cards) it has been a total failure. Faster Ram, much more powerful GPU, faster CPU versus a faster SSD....whatever.....
If things were the exact opposite , if the ps5 had the XSX specs and form factor while the XSX was a giant router with varying clock rates , MS would have been laughed out of the Internet, just like in the Xbox one/ps4 days.
Oh and it is not just Tim’s praise, rewatch the UE5 presentation to see how he reacts when Geoff asks him about Xbox, Tim goes out of his way to not speak the word Xbox and starts talking about .......mobile
FranXico
Member
Too ridiculous.
Yall acting like a 1.5% stake in a $17 billion dollar company is enough for this to be some kind of conspiracy. Tim had also praised the PS4 and the PS3 before it, was he playing some decade and a half long game for 1.5% of what his company is worth? OR, was he just speaking up about his preferred platform, like he always has been?
You make a good point and you look for sources, but we will pretend nothing happened so we can continue to shit Epic for another 7 pages.
TheRaidenPT
Member
I'm definitely curious to see what could happen in a future between Epic and Sony, it would be nice to see Epic making a new game.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Agreed , from his quotes about the ps3&ps4, Tim was always bullshitting about PlayStation consoles. His ps3 quote is hilarious
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SleepDoctor
Banned
Maybe Sony should have put the 250 million towards making a stronger Ps5 rather than have to pay this clown to give false praise to it. I mean this clown been suckin off Sony for free all these years anyway 
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