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[Pappasman]

I'd take better gameplay over shadows. If you want better shadows wait for the movie.

 

[ethomaz]

How? doesn't have good shadows at 30fps.

Exactly... do a better use for the addiction PS4 power... eg. run it at 60fps.

 

[A_Gorilla]

Naughty Dog just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about the American engine culture (I'm an expert), but their graphic engine is a huge part of it. If you don't use your engine at 60fps/1080p, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the American players, after hearing about this, are not going to want to purchase The Last of Us Remastered, nor will they purchase any of Naughty Dog's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but ND has alienated an entire market with this move.

Naughty Dog, publicly apologize and give us The Last of Us in 60fps/1080p or you can kiss your business goodbye.

I love how even after all these years people still fall for this!

 

[-tetsuo-]

PS4 already maxed out. Should just put it on PC so it can be run properly.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

No. 60 has greatly improved shadows from last-gen, 30 improves them even more.

60FPS already has better shadows. 30FPS just has EVEN better shadows

I think this needs to be in the title.

 

[Broder Salsa]

More games on consoles should have options like this. Why not?

 

[somesayyea]

i fail to see the controversy...i will be playing the 60fps mode

 

[Kud Dukan]

I cannot wait until the gaming community moves past this obsession with frame rate.

 

[mrklaw]

To set things straight, are they saying 60 retains last gen's shadows while 30 gets a boost? Or 30 retains last gen's shadows and 60 gets a downgrade?

Neither.

60 gets 2x shadow detail compared to PS3. 30fps gets even more detailed shadows

 

[we.are.the.armada]

Naughty Dog just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about the American engine culture (I'm an expert), but their graphic engine is a huge part of it. If you don't use your engine at 60fps/1080p, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the American players, after hearing about this, are not going to want to purchase The Last of Us Remastered, nor will they purchase any of Naughty Dog's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but ND has alienated an entire market with this move.

Naughty Dog, publicly apologize and give us The Last of Us in 60fps/1080p or you can kiss your business goodbye.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Leafhopper]

Honestly, this should become a pratice. Im not saying that console games should have full settings customization like PC games, but a option to 30 or 60fps would always be welcome I think.

But then you have the crazy people that say they don't want options like this because it complicates the console experience, if they wanted this they would just get a PC.

I wish I was kidding.

 

[Saint Gregory]

IIRC Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate had a somewhat better framerate and did horizontal downsampling from 800x240 to 400x240 if you disabled 3D from the menu.

SSFIV did 60fps with some additional effects with 3D off too. Seems like I should be thanking based Capcom and ND for giving gamers options then ^_^

 

[Dragon1893]

Honestly, it would be kind of silly if they didn't take advantage of the extra overhead they had with a 30fps lock in some way.

Makes sense? why would they not take advantage of the horsepower they shave when people lock it in 30? pc users do that all the time too.

This line of thinking doesn't provide any drama. We need drama.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

I think this needs to be in the title.

You could write people a novel explaining this and some people on here would still not understand...

LOL PS4 maxed out downgrade confirmed. hue hue hue hue hue

 

[icespide]

Not sure if it's just me or if someone else is slightly annoyed, but I just have this feeling like they could of done much more with this remaster...

If 343i can put H1 + H1A upped to 1080/60, H2 + H2Remake (also 1080/60) + Halo 3 upped to 1080/60, Halo 4 upped to 1080/60... Also have them run their OLD engines along with the new engines AND be able to switch back and forth for nostalgic reasons... then I don;t see why ND couldn't have at least made the game somewhat better.

Also, before anyone says well they only had 1 year and they were also working on Uncharted you've got to realize that 343i done all that I listed in 2 years (I'm guessing they started work after Halo 4 as they did say that was the last Halo game in the new trilogy for last gen) AND they are also working on Halo 5.

Yes, I know it's a remaster and it won't look HUGELY different, but it just seems like they didn't put in as much effort...

in regards to the bolded specifically, there's no correlation here. 343i had 4 games to work with and ND only had 1. What would you have them do?

Also only Halo 1 and 2 have the anniversary treatment where you can switch between graphical modes. I'm very much looking forward to the Halo 3 remaster, I can't imagine it looking too amazing.

 

[jacksepticeye]

I cannot wait until the gaming community moves past this obsession with frame rate.

Just like they moved passed the obsession with visuals? oh wait

 

[delta25]

defiantly going to have to see some comparisons before I pass judgement.

 

[antitrop]

I cannot wait until the gaming community moves past this obsession with frame rate.

Which will only be when the frame rate standard for video games matches the frame rate standard for most people's televisions.

 

[darkwing]

oh dear, does this mean UC4 will not have a better shadow quality?

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Choice is always a good thing.

Most would probably stay with 60fps in this case, but I wonder what the people on this board will do if the same would happen with U4, but with even more diffrences in graphical features.

 

[SerTapTap]

Once youtube starts supporting 60fps universally it will make for some great comparisons too. We finally have a situation where we can directly compare exact sections at 60 and 30

Yeah I think Youtube's 30 FPS lock has had a HUGE effect on things. I record videos and half of the software and hardware out there is designed for 30FPS (I will have to change my capture card and video editing software, both of which were >$100, to do 60 FPS). Why? Youtube. It's the presumed destination of enthusiast, non-professional video work, so lots of mid range tools out there target it, people get used to 30 FPS, then there's not much reason to target 60 because hell, people will look at it on Youtube at 30 FPS anyway.

 

[Kayant]

Not sure if it's just me or if someone else is slightly annoyed, but I just have this feeling like they could of done much more with this remaster...

If 343i can put H1 + H1A upped to 1080/60, H2 + H2Remake (also 1080/60) + Halo 3 upped to 1080/60, Halo 4 upped to 1080/60... Also have them run their OLD engines along with the new engines AND be able to switch back and forth for nostalgic reasons... then I don;t see why ND couldn't have at least made the game somewhat better.

Also, before anyone says well they only had 1 year and they were also working on Uncharted you've got to realize that 343i done all that I listed in 2 years (I'm guessing they started work after Halo 4 as they did say that was the last Halo game in the new trilogy for last gen) AND they are also working on Halo 5.

Yes, I know it's a remaster and it won't look HUGELY different, but it just seems like they didn't put in as much effort...

Well there is this -

"I wish we had a button that was like ‘Turn On PS4 Mode’, but no," Druckmann said. "We expected it to be hell, and it was hell. Just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds … that took a long time. These engineers are some of the best in the industry and they optimized the game so much for the PS3’s SPUs specifically. It was optimized on a binary level, but after shifting those things over, you have to go back to the high level, make sure the systems are intact, and optimize it again.

"I can’t describe how difficult a task that is. And once it’s running well, you’re running the [versions] side by side to make sure you didn’t screw something up in the process, like physics being slightly off, which throws the game off, or lighting being shifted and all of a sudden it’s a drastically different look. That’s not ‘improved’ any more; that’s different. We want to stay faithful while being better."

 

[hohoXD123]

Wait can you change these settings on the fly? May be slightly inconvenient but this could be a good option for those photo mode moments.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

But then you have the crazy people that say they don't want options like this because it complicates the console experience, if they wanted this they would just get a PC.

I wish I was kidding.

Just a 30fps vs 60fps option (with automatic adjusts) would not complicate anything imo. But yeah, I guess youre right that people would complain about it.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

I'd rather have better gameplay than shadow *fidelity

 

[Maintenance]

I cannot wait until the gaming community moves past this obsession with frame rate.

Sorry, but framerate will never go away. Some people prefer their games not to be cinematic messes.

Well there is this -

"I wish we had a button that was like ‘Turn On PS4 Mode’, but no," Druckmann said. "We expected it to be hell, and it was hell. Just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds … that took a long time. These engineers are some of the best in the industry and they optimized the game so much for the PS3’s SPUs specifically. It was optimized on a binary level, but after shifting those things over, you have to go back to the high level, make sure the systems are intact, and optimize it again.

"I can’t describe how difficult a task that is. And once it’s running well, you’re running the [versions] side by side to make sure you didn’t screw something up in the process, like physics being slightly off, which throws the game off, or lighting being shifted and all of a sudden it’s a drastically different look. That’s not ‘improved’ any more; that’s different. We want to stay faithful while being better."

Don't bother with the troll, not worth it.

 

[badcrumble]

Good. If you have additional horsepower to play with and increasing resolution/framerate is out of the question, you should take advantage of it by improving the visuals in other ways. I'm glad there's a 60fps mode and I'm also glad that the 30fps mode isn't gimped if it's got additional room to grow in other ways.

 

[Portugeezer]

Maybe graphics option in consoles games will indeed happen...

I mean, it makes sense, like when you get anti aliasing in 2D mode for some 3DS games.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Which will only be when the frame rate standard for video games matches the frame rate standard for most people's televisions.

By the time that happens most people TVs will move to 120hz or more and we back to beginning

 

[Nilaul]

Congrats for the developers giving us the option; this should be done more.

 

[DigiMish]

Not sure if it's just me or if someone else is slightly annoyed, but I just have this feeling like they could of done much more with this remaster...

If 343i can put H1 + H1A upped to 1080/60, H2 + H2Remake (also 1080/60) + Halo 3 upped to 1080/60, Halo 4 upped to 1080/60... Also have them run their OLD engines along with the new engines AND be able to switch back and forth for nostalgic reasons... then I don;t see why ND couldn't have at least made the game somewhat better.

Also, before anyone says well they only had 1 year and they were also working on Uncharted you've got to realize that 343i done all that I listed in 2 years (I'm guessing they started work after Halo 4 as they did say that was the last Halo game in the new trilogy for last gen) AND they are also working on Halo 5.

Yes, I know it's a remaster and it won't look HUGELY different, but it just seems like they didn't put in as much effort...

1) Nobody is going to give a shit toggling between the PS3 and PS4 version because the graphical change isn't as vast as Halo and the Halo remake. Nostalgia doesn't work like that.

2) 343i is not the only developer making the Master Chief Collection.

 

[Orayn]

oh dear, does this mean UC4 will not have a better shadow quality?

To achieve 60 FPS, Uncharted 4 will not feature shadows or textures. 100% colored polygons with Gouraud shading, baby!

 

[TalonJH]

To set things straight, are they saying 60 retains last gen's shadows while 30 gets a boost? Or 30 retains last gen's shadows and 60 gets a downgrade?

It will look better all around no matter what option you pick. Its not like 60 fps mode means your playing the PS3 version but with a better framerate.

 

[Windom Earle]

Well there is this -

"I wish we had a button that was like ‘Turn On PS4 Mode’, but no," Druckmann said. "We expected it to be hell, and it was hell. Just getting an image onscreen, even an inferior one with the shadows broken, lighting broken and with it crashing every 30 seconds … that took a long time. These engineers are some of the best in the industry and they optimized the game so much for the PS3’s SPUs specifically. It was optimized on a binary level, but after shifting those things over, you have to go back to the high level, make sure the systems are intact, and optimize it again.

"I can’t describe how difficult a task that is. And once it’s running well, you’re running the [versions] side by side to make sure you didn’t screw something up in the process, like physics being slightly off, which throws the game off, or lighting being shifted and all of a sudden it’s a drastically different look. That’s not ‘improved’ any more; that’s different. We want to stay faithful while being better."

Yes that explains a lot.

I am ok with these news as long as the 60fps is perfect. Unfortunately it sounds like there are dips though. :/

Not sure if it's just me or if someone else is slightly annoyed, but I just have this feeling like they could of done much more with this remaster...

If 343i can put H1 + H1A upped to 1080/60, H2 + H2Remake (also 1080/60) + Halo 3 upped to 1080/60, Halo 4 upped to 1080/60... Also have them run their OLD engines along with the new engines AND be able to switch back and forth for nostalgic reasons... then I don;t see why ND couldn't have at least made the game somewhat better.

Also, before anyone says well they only had 1 year and they were also working on Uncharted you've got to realize that 343i done all that I listed in 2 years (I'm guessing they started work after Halo 4 as they did say that was the last Halo game in the new trilogy for last gen) AND they are also working on Halo 5.

Yes, I know it's a remaster and it won't look HUGELY different, but it just seems like they didn't put in as much effort...

"Facepalm"

 

[TrojanBlade]

Isn't this what GAF always wanted for consoles? 30 fps with better effects vs 60 fps with lower...umm like PC. What's the problem now GAF?

 

[SerTapTap]

then I don;t see why ND couldn't have at least made the game somewhat better.

um

Yes, it's JUST a PS3 game. Just a PS3 game running at

Twice the framerate
Twice the pixel count
Four times the texture detail
Two times the shadow resolution
Cutscene models instead of game models for main characters
Higher resolution particle effects
No texture streaming
Higher draw distance
Higher LOD at longer distance
Probably some I'm forgetting

 

[icespide]

Yes that explains a lot.

I am ok with these news as long as the 60fps is perfect. Unfortunately it sounds like there are dips though. :/

where did you hear that?

 

[Kayant]

Depends on how drastic the difference is but that's pretty cool. More games on console should give options like this when possible.

 

[KillGore]

Isn't this what GAF always wanted for consoles? 30 fps with better effects vs 60 fps with lower...umm like PC. What's the problem now GAF?

lol this


What's the problem here? I wish all console games were like this, or more like PC games. Give me options

 

[bananafactory]

Yes that explains a lot.

I am ok with these news as long as the 60fps is perfect. Unfortunately it sounds like there are dips though. :/



"Facepalm"

All of the early streamers I've seen said they barely noticed any dips. Maybe 5-10 fps when there's a lot of particle effects. I don't think it's going to be a big issue

 

[RoboPlato]

oh dear, does this mean UC4 will not have a better shadow quality?

Uncharted 4 is built from the ground up for PS4. This is a port from a very difficult and different architecture.

 

[darkwing]

Isn't this what GAF always wanted for consoles? 30 fps with better effects vs 60 fps with lower...umm like PC. What's the problem now GAF?

it wants everything

 

[Wishmaster92]

1st playthrough -60fps
2nd playthrough (Photomode playthrough) -30fps

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Eh, i was gonna play it at 30 fps anyways... this just makes it much better for me. I hope that they have a similar option included in their next games (Uncharted 4) as well as i prefer IQ over fps.

 

[TalonJH]

60FPS already has better shadows. 30FPS just has EVEN better shadows

lol, I look at your avatar and felt like it perfectly suits how you felt while answering that question.

 

[Windom Earle]

where did you hear that?

Seems the articles in the OP only mention a "perfect framerate" at 30fps. Maybe I am reaching though.

All of the early streamers I've seen said they barely noticed any dips. Maybe 5-10 fps when there's a lot of particle effects. I don't think it's going to be a big issue

Meh, that would still be a lot of judder going down from 60.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I don't think this is even remotely controversial.

Neither do I. When news of the 30 fps lock mode first came, people were worried that this would be an I:SS scenario, where the unlocked mode would give a widely fluctuating frame rate, averaging closer to thirty than sixty. If locking the frame rate gives enough extra juice to improve shadows, that likely means the unlocked frame rate will average comfortably much higher than in locked 30 mode.

I often see people here asking for options between better effects or better frame rates in console games, similar to the situation on PC. Looks like they're giving us just that. This should be welcomed and encouraged, not scorned, lest we want to discourage other developers to do the same.

People must realize that 60 fps leads to concessions in other areas, regardless of hardware. People upset at this seems to have believed it would have come for free. I expected better from GAF, where I thought people would be relatively educated about matters like these.

 

[icespide]

it wants everything now

fixed that for you

 

[Buburibon]

From the various impressions of early copies, it does.

Stop taking people's word for it and just wait for the inevitable DF graph.

It does, as stated numerous times by the devs and people who have played it.

Thanks, that sounds good.

 

[RoboPlato]

Seems the articles in the OP only mention a "perfect framerate" at 30fps. Maybe I am reaching though.



Meh, that would still be a lot of judder going down from 60.

Someone on GAF has the game and the only frame drop he noticed was in one of the sections with already heavy particle effects after he threw a molotov and it was small and brief.