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[bitbydeath]

I don't really care about gaming semantics, I play the stuff I find fun.

But Ive always thought that 3 of the core elements for something to be a proper RPG are being able to create your own character, being able to affect the story and quests (at least to an extent) with your choices, and having a good degree of freedom in how to build your character.

Everything else is a "_____ game with RPG elements"

Sims would meet that criteria.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Action game vs RPG?
It is a sliding scale, but of what?

Simple, actually. In an action game, the performance of the game avatar is directly related to the physical skill of the operator. If you suck then your character suck, if you are godly then you play godly.
Example? CoD.

In an RPG, the performance of the game avatar is related to the limits of the game character's own stats. Accuracy is based on stat, luck is based on stats, charisma is based on stats, damage is based on stats. You can make a difference by being skillful, but it is much less of a factor than growing the character themselves.
A classic example is TES Daggerfall, where you can swing your sword as fast as you like but the chance to hit is based on the stats and not how you aim.

A lost of games these days have a mix of the two extremes, but often the RPG element is just window dressing. This is most obvious where games have level scaling, where the game enemies get stronger the stronger the player character is. This is when you have an Action game that wants to PRETEND it is an RPG, so it has a veneer of RPG skin that end up being just lies and deceits. The level ups are fake, just put there for appearances.

ironically a really old example of fake level-ups is in the arcades D&D licenced beat-them-ups, where you see cut-scenes between levels that tell you the characters have gotten stronger, when in reality they have not. The enemies are the same difficulty all the way through, they just SAY the characters are stronger. That is the funny reverse case where the game is trying to be an RPG when they were an action game due to hardware restrictions.


So yeah, most games these days are just actions games, because most gamers want their skills to matter. Older gamers like me who aren't as young as they used to would prefer RPGs that don't have real life reflexes or memorize button presses. But as we get older such games are harder and harder to find.

 

[lyan]

It's a JRPG, in which you experience a big epic story while progressing characters you don't have control over. It's a subgenre of RPG.

That said, the only thing that matters is what Myths said... tracking character improvement through stats, and augmenting/improving those stats via gear. If that is forward-facing to the player at all, you're talking about a game which at a minimum has a crucial, inextricable RPG element which governs player progression.

Something cannot logically be called a subgenre when it is missing all the things that define the genre, the opposite can be true though but that would make RPG a subgenre of JRPG.

 

[mxbison]

I would say being able to play how you want and make decisions. But then like 95% of RPGs don't qualify anymore I guess.

 

[Denton]

For me, real RPGs are a combination of

- character progression with ability to create meaningfully variable characters
- choices and consequences in both main and sidequests, with nonlinear storytelling and dialogue (providing player agency)
- free form exploration of the game world

 

[Neolombax]

Honestly, as long as I know how the game works in general and it's a fun game, I'm all good. There's a lot of games nowadays that integrate multiple genre's, its kind of limiting to put specific labels on it.

 

[Damigos]

An RPG is a game where its RPG elements are more than its other elements

 

[lachesis]

I think a true RPG is really about D&D. The origin and all.. as you are literally playing a role. It could be said that every single video game is like that..
Some may think the level up and experience system is the core element of RPG - but a lot of the times, I think if it's a true rpg, where your own input doesn't really affect games story and entire arc and given to one way street (like a lot of story-driven, including many, and some are my beloved JRPG games).

So... I've kinda given up the distinction of it. It's whether I like it or not like it. I like well paced turn-based, strategic games than action/timing based games - so I tend to look into that in purchasing games a lot of times - not necessarily what a true RPG is.

 

[Hudo]

Obviously the new metric is that an RPG is a game where you can fuck.

 

[Humdinger]

Here are what I believe are the defining elements of an RPG:

1. Customizable character or party
2. Significant choice and consequence within the story (not just build types or weapon choice)
3. Leveling-up system for skills or attributes

However, I admit this definition excludes games like The Witcher, which most people would classify as an RPG. So it isn't perfect. Maybe that first criterion is flexible?

 

[RoboFu]

A real rpg is something like elder scrolls. You pick your class (a role ) and go on an adventure of your choices building your characters in depth as you go.

What’s not an rpg? 20 hours of cutscenes and enemy battles that take place in “ rooms “ , button mashing , and super shallow character building.


The one thing I really do not like is rpgs that do not at least have class paths, that the player can be everything eventually. That’s extremely boring to me.

 

[mrmustard]

There is no 100% correct definition. If the devs don't want to make yet another action adventure they simply call it action rpg and nobody can prove them wrong.

 

[Filben]

Consequences and a world shaped by your actions and interactions and decisions, not alone by the narrative and script. Weight of my own actions should be perceptible and the script of story and gameplay mechanics should allow such thing.

Also (vertical) character and not only (horizontal) player progression.

 

[saintjules]

The ability to bang a woodland animal.

Like in Baldur's Gate??

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Strong level system that is more than just unlocking skills and deep side quests mostly imho. I’ve seen a lot of people here label Horizon an RPG, that’s basically what the industry has done to the genre.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Something cannot logically be called a subgenre when it is missing all the things that define the genre, the opposite can be true though but that would make RPG a subgenre of JRPG.

FF does have the things which define the RPG -- character progression, stats based improvements, augmentation of those stats via acquired items/weapons/etc.

 

[Ainem Enamas]

An immersive experience of playing a role.

 

[lyan]

FF does have the things which define the RPG -- character progression, stats based improvements, augmentation of those stats via acquired items/weapons/etc.

That's the point of this thread isnt it, if these are what it takes to be an RPG almost everything today becomes an RPG.

 

[EruditeHobo]

That's the point of this thread isnt it, if these are what it takes to be an RPG almost everything today becomes an RPG.

Yeah, RPG elements are very conducive to deeper gaming experiences -- that's why they have applied to many more game types as games as a whole have gotten more cinematic, more specific, and deeper.

But none of that means FF isn't an RPG, which is what I was responding to... it's obviously an RPG, the crucial elements for defining an RPG are quite clearly present in every entry in the series.

 

[EruditeHobo]

There is no 100% correct definition. If the devs don't want to make yet another action adventure they simply call it action rpg and nobody can prove them wrong.

People can easily call them wrong... they can call it whatever they want, but RPG does mean something pretty specific. It is a term that comes from a specific place, and that specificity still applies. It's just a little bit harder to pin down. That's the language game everyone is playing. I can call a couch a chair, that doesn't mean I'm going to have a good argument as to WHY a couch should be called a chair.

Same is true of someone calling a game that is mostly an action-adventure game an "action RPG" -- nothing makes Zelda an RPG the way Elden Ring is an RPG. The gameplay itself, at times, might be pretty similar. But the difference between them is still significant. And it's categorical, ie it's non-subjective.

 

[CanYouFlyBobby?]

To me a RPG is a game where choices matter and the affects of those choices can be seen in the world.