Support NeoGAF

[flawfuls]

Personally I feel this thread should be moved to OT and have the "affects gaming" as well part removed from the title. So far the law has no effect on gaming at all.

I would also be interested in helping out the compilation of legitimate links if needed.

There was already a topic in the OT section.

 

[thetrin]

Wait, WHAT? It's a restriction on cartoon depictions, but NOT live photography? That makes no fucking sense.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

child porn shouldn't be illegal because we don't like what it depicts. it should be illegal because it's creation involves actual child mollestation, and trying to buy it/consume it creates a demand for the material that can't be made without child mollestation.

drawing anything shouldn't be illegal in any way shape or form.

this may only be classification, but it's the same sort of classification that leads to slanted rating systems which limit artistic freedom directly and indirectly.

so good old fashioned straight sex is fine, but oh dear we don't want to promote any gayness now do we that wouldn't do! we don't want our kids catching the gay. lets have them masterbating over 'normal' sexual acts that lead to marriage (whatever the hell that means).

Oh, I essentially agree with you - I believe that the government has a duty to protect children from physical harm, but certainly shouldn't get involved in things people do by themselves that truly cause no harm to another. All I was saying is that if this was a law that was solely restricted to limiting access to clear extreme child pornography, I would not be motivated to protest it. But it sounds like it actually has nothing to do with that, and what the law seems aimed at does disturb me.

 

[charlequin]

Wait, WHAT? It's a restriction on cartoon depictions, but NOT live photography? That makes no fucking sense.

It does if it's specifically a shot across the bow of the anime/manga industry.

All I was saying is that if this was a law that was solely restricted to limiting access to clear extreme child pornography, I would not be motivated to protest it. But it sounds like it actually has nothing to do with that

Right. And, specifically, Japanese law already contains the ability to regulate or restrict sexually explicit material that would be inappropriate for minors, as well as rather strong rules regulating the production and possession of child pornography.

 

[thetrin]

child porn shouldn't be illegal because we don't like what it depicts. it should be illegal because it's creation involves actual child mollestation, and trying to buy it/consume it creates a demand for the material that can't be made without child mollestation.

This is the biggest point. The ban on child pornography is not an anti-obscenity law. People seem to forget the reasons behind it's illegality.

It does if it's specifically a shot across the bow of the anime/manga industry.

All actual child pornographers can sleep well tonight, I guess.

I'm waiting for the inevitable leaked pictures of Ishihara snorting coke off the ass of a 16 year old girl.

Assange, use your powers for good for once!

 

[Mandoric]

It does if it's specifically a shot across the bow of the anime/manga industry.

I think you could make an argument for a Joe Camel type situation. But ironically, the "it's all for pedos anyway" reaction defangs that.

Also, shouldn't that be Ishihara snorting crack off the ass of a 16-year-old boy? Especially with that Japanese traditionalist thing going.

 

[Dreamgazer]

Based on the coverage from Dan Kanemitsu's blog, that's not true:



Since the bill as written covers "pictures" and "animation" (but not photography or live-action film) it would seem to also cover computer-illustrated-or-animated content contained within video games as well.

As best I can tell from this write-up, the bill does not in fact create any additional restrictions regarding homosexuality, but it would potentially make any works including themes of rape or incest "adults only" even if no explicit content is included as long as they fall into the extraordinarily vague standard for being "unjustifiably glorified or exaggerated."

改正案第2条

第7条（図書類等の販売及び興行の自主規制）　
図書類の発行、販売又は貸付けを業とする者並びに映画等を主催するもの及び興行場（興行場法（昭和二十三年法律第百三十七号）第一条の興行場をいう。以下同じ。）を経営する者は、図書類又は映画等の内容が、次の各号のいずれかに該当するものと認めるときは、相互に協力し、緊密な連絡の下に、当該図書類又は映画等を青少年に販売し、頒布し、若しくは貸し付け、又は閲覧させないように務めなければならない。

一　青少年に対し、性的感情を刺激し、残虐性を助長し、又は自殺若しくは犯罪を誘発し、青少年の健全な成長を阻害するおそれがあるもの。
二　漫画、アニメーションその他の画像（実写を除く。）で、刑罰法規に触れる性交若しくは性交類似行為又は婚姻を禁止されている近親者間における性交若しくは性交類似行為を、不当に賛美し又は誇張するように、描写し又は表現することにより、青少年の性に関する健全な判断能力の形成を妨げ、青少年の健全な成長を阻害するおそれがあるもの

My problem is that Dan is clearly quoting the manga and animation part ("漫画、アニメーションその他の画像（実写を除く") from statue item #7 heading " 図書類等の販売及び興行の自主規制" which technically should only apply to books and related media.

...(but then

oh fuck this...the law is so vaguely written that I should not even bother.

One thing is true though. It's mostly still the writers and the publishing industry(the comic-10 aliance) that is largely protesting the law

 

[Lyte Edge]

You should know better Lyte as a japanophile yourself. The hardest of the hardcore's system of choice is the 360.

I want my orgasm shooter dammit

Let me follow up with: This game looks awful and previews have not been favorable. Maybe this might force them to go back and somehow turn it into something good?

 

[charlequin]

oh fuck this...the law is so vaguely written

That's the thing. If someone can show me that video games are explicitly excluded I'd believe that, but without such an explicit statement in the text of the law I don't see how anyone can say with certainty that it won't be applicable to them in practice.

 

[Trojita]

So the Love Hotel arc in Persona 3 in its entirety and the vague emphasis that your characters (Two consenting people) having sex at the end of the Social Links?

Can anime and manga characters even kill each other now? That's immoral and against the social code.

Would "Here and Then Now and There" be censored because the girl was raped as a part of the story? Would any story be censored where the girl was raped off screen as a part of the story?

Keep fucking that chicken Japan.

 

[Big One]

So the Love Hotel arc in Persona 3 in its entirety and the vague emphasis that your characters (Two consenting people) having sex at the end of the Social Links?

Can anime and manga characters even kill each other now? That's immoral and against the social code.

Would "Here and Then Now and There" be censored because the girl was raped as a part of the story? Would any story be censored where the girl was raped off screen as a part of the story?

Keep fucking that chicken Japan.

This has already been address, I suggest reading page 3 and 4.

 

[webrunner]

There was an anime based on .Hack a while ago, which had two separated twins playing the game together. There was.. an uncomfortable amount of subtext.

I wonder if they would ban that?

 

[Dresden]

I think you could make an argument for a Joe Camel type situation. But ironically, the "it's all for pedos anyway" reaction defangs that.

Also, shouldn't that be Ishihara snorting crack off the ass of a 16-year-old boy? Especially with that Japanese traditionalist thing going.

16-year old boys are for chumps. He's upgraded to thirteen year olds.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Just one question: child porn is banned in Japan right? :lol If so, I don't see why is anyone complaining about "photography" not being included - it's not like you will have a photoshoot with a subject that falls into this law.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I never understood the popularity of loli. It seems like a way for pedophiles to get their fix while staying out of prison. Not calling anyone a pedo, just saying, an adult anime character should always be used if it involve sexy stuff. Ever see kids with makeup on, and Myle Cyrus line slutwear? I's just wrong.

 

[Dresden]

I never understood the popularity of loli. It seems like a way for pedophiles to get their fix while staying out of prison. Not calling anyone a pedo, just saying, an adult anime character should always be used if it involve sexy stuff. Ever see kids with makeup on, and Myle Cyrus line slutwear? I's just wrong.

I think loli is pretty fucking gross, loli porn in particular, but it's still fictional and hurts no one.

Besides, this bill will fuck things up for more than just the omgpedos.

 

[Busaiku]

Wait, WHAT? It's a restriction on cartoon depictions, but NOT live photography? That makes no fucking sense.

Actual child pornography is completely banned, to all audiences.
The restrictions emphasized on this bill already exist for live pornography.

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

If it were any other first world nation I'd be upset, but given Japan's infatuation with Rape, Incest, and Pedophilia I'd say this bill fits pretty nicely.

 

[Atilac]

Actual child pornography is completely banned, to all audiences.
The restrictions emphasized on this bill already exist for live pornography.

wrong: child pornography is completely legal to own, just illegal to distribute.

 

[Pimpbaa]

If it were any other first world nation I'd be upset, but given Japan's infatuation with Rape, Incest, and Pedophilia I'd say this bill fits pretty nicely.

Yeah, that shit is outta control there. Something has to be done.

 

[tiff]

If it were any other first world nation I'd be upset, but given Japan's infatuation with Rape, Incest, and Pedophilia I'd say this bill fits pretty nicely.

I don't see how this makes any sense from an ideological standpoint.

 

[bernardobri]

wrong: child pornography is completely legal to own, just illegal to distribute.

... Seriously?

 

[Crash Station]

So have we figured out if this covers violence against minors? If so, that kind of destroys the entire shounen demographic and even games like Zelda will get banned. Why the hell does everything have to be so vague :/

 

[Roxas]

wrong: child pornography is completely legal to own, just illegal to distribute.

dont be fucking ridiculous :lol

 

[polyh3dron]

lol, no more perv manga and hentai? and no more racy dating sim games?

They are gonna go NUTS

 

[tiff]

lol, no more perv manga and hentai? and no more racy dating sim games?

They are gonna go NUTS

Hentai isn't getting touched by this.

 

[AzureNightmare]

wrong: child pornography is completely legal to own, just illegal to distribute.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol GTFO

 

[Atilac]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol GTFO

unless things have changed, thats the way it is.

 

[polyh3dron]

OK imaginary First Ammendment of Japan spporters...


But we can all agree that the portrayal of rape, child pornography and incest for entertainment and sexual titillation are BAD right?

(also, Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy, not a phenomenon)

Best Avatar Quote EVER

 

[Diablohead]

What will icecream do with him/herself now?

 

[Takuan]

It's probably for the better :\

 

[Saiyar]

dont be fucking ridiculous :lol

He is right. Japan has no laws governing the simple possession of Child Pornography. Only production, distribution and possession with intent to distibute are illegal.

 

[Crash Station]

Atilac is right. From Wiki:

Tokyo has yet to review any of the laws currently in place making simple possession of child pornography legal in Japan, or more specifically the lack of laws punishing simple possession without the additional criteria of distribution.

 

[Atilac]

Its legal to own kiddie porn, but god forbid you decide to to animate it or draw a picture representing it!!!! that would be immoral.

 

[Jex]

OK imaginary First Ammendment of Japan spporters...


But we can all agree that the portrayal of rape, child pornography and incest for entertainment and sexual titillation are BAD right?

That's right, incest should only be handled in a classy fashion.

 

[LiK]

Atilac is right. From Wiki:

Wow....

Makes this law look even stupider.

 

[Tempy]

Let me follow up with: This game looks awful and previews have not been favorable. Maybe this might force them to go back and somehow turn it into something good?

Your avatar is pretty hot btw.

 

[Tempy]

This better not affect Comic LO and Comic Rin.

 

[Big One]

If it were any other first world nation I'd be upset, but given Japan's infatuation with Rape, Incest, and Pedophilia I'd say this bill fits pretty nicely.

I too would be worried if I based an entire country on it's drawn porn

 

[X26]

cool, maybe now they'll start making good anime again

 

[Tempy]

On a more serious note, is stuff like Aki Sora/Oretama actually labelled as porn/18+ material and if not, is it going to be? There's a lot of very ecchi stuff which I don't consider to be hardcore hentai simply because it doesn't show penis/vagoo (although there will be bodily fluids shown).

 

[Jintor]

"Immoral purposes"?

This bill is incredibly vague

 

[Bebpo]

"Immoral purposes"?

This bill is incredibly vague

Yep. The potential for the chilling effect of this bill on artistic creativity is immense.

Welcome to the world of PG-13 anime, manga, games from Japan that stays afar from any mature subject matter.

 

[mollipen]

This better not affect Comic LO and Comic Rin.

Comic LO: great covers, and... yeah.

 

[Kuraudo]

Its legal to own kiddie porn, but god forbid you decide to to animate it or draw a picture representing it!!!! that would be immoral.

Just because another bill is fucking stupid doesn't mean this one is wrong.

 

[FoneBone]

But we can all agree that the portrayal of rape, child pornography and incest for entertainment and sexual titillation are BAD right?

Sure, but I can't at all condone the idea of government being the arbiter of what constitutes "entertainment and sexual titillation" vs. bona fide artistic merit. It's far, far too ambiguous.

 

[Jintor]

Just because another bill is fucking stupid doesn't mean this one is wrong.

I like the intent

but the wording is just... way too vague.

Chilling effect ho

 

[Foxix Von]

wrong: child pornography is completely legal to own, just illegal to distribute.

Assuming that they have appropriate laws against it's production as well, I don't see anything wrong with that. Simple possession of material shouldn't be something you can be charged for.

Also, what's up with this bit?

3) Publishers that have over 6 works deemed to be harmful material within a one year period by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government shall be subject to referral to their respective self-regulatory bodies for addressing the repeated offenses. Any further breaches within the following 6 months, and the Tokyo Metropolitan Government will have the authority to release the name of the company to the public, and the Governor will have the authority to issue opinions and evidence to support that opinion.

In other words, if a publisher releases something that Tokyo deems to be harmful to minors more than 6 times within a 12 month period, then the self-regulatory body that the publisher belongs to will be told to do something about this offending publisher. If the publisher offends once more within 6 months after that process, the Governor will have the right to humiliate the publisher in a public forum, and when that happens, you can expect retailers and distributor to avoid carrying that publisher’s line of works.

I'm not sure if I'm getting this properly. So if you violate whatever the vague wording of this law is seven times within a year the government then has the right to step in just to humiliate the producers? That's fucking weird.

 

[Extollere]

This better not affect Comic LO and Comic Rin.

It won't. Both are rated R-18. :3

 

[Hylian7]

So have we figured out if this covers violence against minors? If so, that kind of destroys the entire shounen demographic and even games like Zelda will get banned. Why the hell does everything have to be so vague :/

Oh God if this is true I don't even want to think about what will happen to video games as we know them.