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[gerg]

I think what Mik2121 means isn't that the series themselves have been cancelled, but the series' creators' participation in TAF has been.

In any case, Shintarō Ishihara seems to be quite the bigoted bastard.

@Dreamgazer: The parties in question are, in fact, threatening to boycott next year's TAF.

 

[Dreamgazer]

I think what Mik2121 means isn't that the series themselves have been cancelled, but the series' creators' participation in TAF has been.

In any case, Shintarō Ishihara seems to be quite the bigoted bastard.

@Dreamgazer: The parties in question are, in fact, threatening to boycott next year's TAF.

My mistake. I thought he was talking about Jump Festa which happens to be occurring right now. Haven't heard about the 10-comic alliance boycotting TAF though

 

[Mik2121]

My mistake. I thought he was talking about Jump Festa which happens to be occurring right now. Haven't heard about the 10-comic alliance boycotting TAF though

Nope sorry, I was talking about the boycott happening in 2011-s TAF. It's been on the news already and it's pretty important. I didn't mean to say that the series have been cancelled though. Sorry if I didn't explain myself correctly.

 

[Dreamgazer]

Nope sorry, I was talking about the boycott happening in 2011-s TAF. It's been on the news already and it's pretty important. I didn't mean to say that the series have been cancelled though. Sorry if I didn't explain myself correctly.

According to Mainichi daily news, it seems like everyone publishers involved in the comic-10 alliance is going to boycott TAF though:
http://mainichi.jp/select/wadai/news/20101211k0000m040076000c.html

So it's most likely going to be more than just the Shueisha weekly jump titles being canceled.

 

[Mik2121]

According to Mainichi daily news, it seems like everyone publishers involved in the comic-10 alliance is going to boycott TAF though:
http://mainichi.jp/select/wadai/news/20101211k0000m040076000c.html

So it's most likely going to be more than just the Shueisha weekly jump titles being canceled.

Seems like that, indeed. I don't really follow much of this (I don't live in Tokyo and I don't like anime nor manga), but some of my classmates and teachers were talking about this last week and by then all that was knew was what I posted above. Anyway it seems like the TAF is fucked, huh?

 

[Dreamgazer]

Seems like that, indeed. I don't really follow much of this (I don't live in Tokyo and I don't like anime nor manga), but some of my classmates and teachers were talking about this last week and by then all that was knew was what I posted above. Anyway it seems like the TAF is fucked, huh?

Pretty much I guess...since Ishihara is the chairman + TMG funds TAF. It's either he goes or they go.

That or they can easily just get a new fund master. I highly doubt the ministry of economics would let one of their biggest domestic trade show go to shit.

That or it'll essentially just be NHK-TAF :lol

 

[FoxSpirit]

The wording is shocking. So no "inappropriate stuff" in Jump? Homosexuality is bad?

What will One Piece do?? >.<

 

[Kuran]

Homosexuality is bad?

What will One Piece do?? >.<

Holy shit, they went there?

I can't see why people aren't protesting..

 

[tiff]

I'm amazed at the number of people who are completely okay with, or even encourage, using the government as a means of artistic quality control. Even ignoring how misguided that crusade is here, I think that's mind-blowing. It's so directly contradictory to any reasonable notion of free expression that I can think of.

 

[Kuran]

All I can think of is that it will prevent games such as Killer 7 from being made.. anything that stifles creativity is bad.

 

[onken]

Shocking so many people want to leave it up to a group of 50-60 Year old Asian men to approve what material is okay and what isn't to kids. >_>

Japanese law being made by Asian men, whatever next?!

What a fucking bizarre thing to say.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

On a serious note, things like High School of the Dead are +18 in Spain for example, but I dont think they are adults only in Japan, no? So that means they will ban things like High School of the Dead because they depict secundary school students in nearly sexual acts?

And what about things like Keroro, Doraemon and Persona games for example and its sexual innuendo?

I would like a serious reply if possible.

 

[C.T.]

Actually I agree with this law. While I hate censorship and regulations enforced by the administration, emotionally I can't say I don't sympathise with movements to destroy an already dead market. Don't give me this "it kills creativity" shit. Anime is not what it used to be anymore. There still some popular ongoing series but new interesting series? Nope. Not if you hate nerdy humor, panty shots, gore + (nearly)sex/rape, shool related anime. There are always some interesting and artsy ones in between, but it's a drop in the bucket. For me it lost it's charm and is mostly for the nieche. They've brought it on themselves. I don't think things like One Piece will be affected, don't hyperreact.

 

[Cheerilee]

Holy shit, they went there?

I can't see why people aren't protesting..

"They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist."

It's all over this thread.

 

[Dreamgazer]

i wish this thread is an IRC channel so I can just speak about it more conversationally.:lol

Anyway, as I mentioned in the previous page. What we are discussing is only statue item #7 of the bill. Many people need to get an idea of the full thing to really see how "communist" it is":lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_...e_Regarding_the_Healthy_Development_of_Youths

.jp wiki

 

[Crash Station]

"They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist."

It's all over this thread.

That would imply this law won't affect casual game fans. People just have no clue what it's even about. Worst case scenario, the most violent game coming out of Japan will be Mario and everything else will be CERO Z. Even that might be too violent (those poor turtles). I bet 99% of this forum would speak up then instead of spouting this "lol, no mor loli shit, icecream is suiside".

It probably won't be anywhere near that bad, but if the final decision rests on the government and this nutjob has a say in it, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Foxix Von]

Actually I agree with this law. While I hate censorship and regulations enforced by the administration, emotionally I can't say I don't sympathise with movements to destroy an already dead market. Don't give me this "it kills creativity" shit. Anime is not what it used to be anymore. There still some popular ongoing series but new interesting series? Nope. Not if you hate nerdy humor, panty shots, gore + (nearly)sex/rape, shool related anime. There are always some interesting and artsy ones in between, but it's a drop in the bucket. For me it lost it's charm and is mostly for the nieche. They've brought it on themselves. I don't think things like One Piece will be affected, don't hyperreact.

While a great deal of work currently being produced is trying to appeal to the weird otaku niche, just by the sheer total volume of output in the comic/anime market they have more diverse offerings, even now, than just about anywhere else. If you want to see a dead market try and watch some Saturday morning cartoons and see if there's anything good on.

Normally I'd be for some sort of regulatory body to rate and restrict actual mature content as needed, however that's not how this is being done as they already have rating systems in place. The vagueness of the law essentially implies that just about anything that they deem immoral can be booted to the equivalent of an X rating. This does effect even legitimate works of art not trying to be porn, and in addition to that it also gives the government the ability to publicly mock the people making it.

Take Ren and Stimpy for an american example. While they're a dog and cat, the implied homosexuality between protagonists could be twisted to fit the bill and rendered with an X rating. If anyone ever wanted to make something like that they're efforts would effectively rendered useless as it'd be near impossible to sell an x rated kid's cartoon.

Yes this DOES have the potential to stifle creativity. Under this Panty and Stocking (the name, I know) would be considered porn. Regardless of it's immature content, it is with out a doubt the most creative thing I've seen come out this year regardless of medium.

Laws like these are just inherently bad as it's giving government a LOT of freedom to judge what is and is not morally correct along with censoring internet access to minors without a parents permission. If a parent would like to opt out they have to send in a written request and must contain a justifiable excuse sent in to the phone provider. "Justifiable" being a term that is determent at behest of the government in this case as well. There is a reason so many people are up in arms about this.

 

[MCD]

The wording is shocking. So no "inappropriate stuff" in Jump? Homosexuality is bad?

What will One Piece do?? >.<

Okama way is not bound by any law.

It is life.

 

[C.T.]

You don't have to convince me that this law is BS, I just wanted to hate on anime which only tends to be creative when it comes to how to curcumvent laws and show as much skin as possible these days. Maybe I'm just bitter. I agree that the potential is still there when looking to the manga market. Still anime production companies tend to be risk-averse these days. Could be the price model of dvds and blu-rays. I mean the new model is to broadcast censored ecchi anime and milk otakus with the uncensored blu-ray release. I saw a dvd (or blu-ray?) of three bleach episodes for over 10000 Yen, when I was in Japan. That's ridiculous. But even the manga market is unhealthy these days. When Naruto, Bleach and One Piece are completed, the market will be in big trouble.

 

[Jex]

don't sympathise with movements to destroy an already dead market.

Videogames are a dead market?

 

[Paracelsus]

That would imply this law won't affect casual game fans. People just have no clue what it's even about. Worst case scenario, the most violent game coming out of Japan will be Mario and everything else will be CERO Z. Even that might be too violent (those poor turtles). I bet 99% of this forum would speak up then instead of spouting this "lol, no mor loli shit, icecream is suiside".

It probably won't be anywhere near that bad, but if the final decision rests on the government and this nutjob has a say in it, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.

Always from Dan Kanemitsu's blog

2) Tokyo’s definition of how it deems publicly available material as harmful to minors will be changed.
- Previously, “Any material that may be detrimental toward the healthy development of youth because of their capacity to be sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior.” was the criteria.
- Now the criteria will be expanded to include: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.”
- Any material that is excessively breaches this standard can be deemed to be “harmful material” by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government unilaterally and thereby restrict their circulation from all minors (0-17 of age).

It doesn't seem to me violence was toned down even with that law in action, they are clearly targeting ero-content in <18+ media.

I think it's still a bad thing but you've got to admit some anime recently aired really got carried away with this stuff, regardless of the airing time.

 

[C.T.]

Videogames are a dead market?

youre jumping the gun here. I was talking about the anime market. Do you follow all that stupid anime shows? of course I'm arogantly judging there pop-culture here, but I had to watch that shit for half a year and I became sick of it. I still like me some sport anime etc like Giant Killing by the way. The video game market (except pc games) is a different beast and already highly regulated. I doubt it will affect it that much.

 

[ITA84]

And what about things like Keroro, Doraemon and Persona games for example and its sexual innuendo?

Doraemon?! O_O

I haven't followed the series in a long while, but what's in it that could be censored?

 

[Crash Station]

Always from Dan Kanemitsu's blog


It doesn't seem to me violence was toned down even with that law in action, they are clearly targeting ero-content in <18+ media.

I think it's still a bad thing but you've got to admit some anime recently aired really got carried away with this stuff, regardless of the airing time.

Ah right, the first part is already in effect.

But yeah, it's still pretty bad. I wouldn't want to see stuff from the recent seasons go like Panty and Stocking because they're awesome, but the real victims here are series like Hourou Musuko which legitimately talk about gender identity and other mature issues. The anime should be fine, but the manga could be in danger.

 

[flawfuls]

But even the manga market is unhealthy these days. When Naruto, Bleach and One Piece are completed, the market will be in big trouble.

Naruto and Bleach aren't really that big a deal, they are popular manga, but there are plenty of other manga that sell on the same level as them in Japan. Bleach isn't even the number three manga (it's like fifth or sixth). One Piece is a monster though, I think this year it sold more than 4 times what Naruto did. It still has another ten years or so till it ends though.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Always from Dan Kanemitsu's blog


It doesn't seem to me violence was toned down even with that law in action, they are clearly targeting ero-content in <18+ media.

I think it's still a bad thing but you've got to admit some anime recently aired really got carried away with this stuff, regardless of the airing time.

This new law DOESN'T concern the 18+ stuff. Stuff can be simply bumped to x-rated. If you followed the thread, a main supporter of the bill drew x-rated stuff with drugs and rape. And THAT won't be affected.
Oh, and rl stuff won't as well.

 

[Cheerilee]

That would imply this law won't affect casual game fans.

Actually, that was the first line from a famous old poem about how the Nazis came to power and became the monsters we all know them as today, and how the Germans rolled over and let it happen, because they believed the Nazis were only targeting the undesirables.

It implies that casual game fans will be rounded up into death camps.

 

[Extollere]

This new law DOESN'T concern the 18+ stuff. Stuff can be simply bumped to x-rated. If you followed the thread, a main supporter of the bill drew x-rated stuff with drugs and rape. And THAT won't be affected.
Oh, and rl stuff won't as well.

If you read the quote, it says "less than 18+ material" It's intended to curb certain forms of suggestive topics in material that isn't rated for adults.

This is still concerning however, because lots of shows are targeted towards adults (drama, action, etc), yet are not rated 18+, so it's my understanding that they are still susceptible to this law even with the audience is mature.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I'm amazed at the number of people who are completely okay with, or even encourage, using the government as a means of artistic quality control. Even ignoring how misguided that crusade is here, I think that's mind-blowing. It's so directly contradictory to any reasonable notion of free expression that I can think of.

Oh FFS, I love how people jump on moral high horse and accept any sort of shit just for "freedom of expression". While the law is too vague, it is there to prevent a very specific situation: publishers putting pornographic material in magazines, mangas, animation which don't carry "18+" rating. This will never fly with JAV, but since it's drawing it's ok now? Please....

I know publishers depended on young otaku getting their porn fix, because legally they couldn't buy real porn or more "hard" type of hentai - well tough shit. This is also why the law doesn't target photography - if there is sex in there, BAM, it's 18+ no questions asked, everyone understands that.

Let's take a look at this law:

- Now the criteria will be expanded to include: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.”

Why are publishers complaining? They can still sell OVAs with girls making slurpy sounds, or girls masturbating through panties with no problem to MINORS. Sankaku is a shit site however check last two weeks to get the idea what passes for "normal" anime nowadays.

I think it's still a bad thing but you've got to admit some anime recently aired really got carried away with this stuff, regardless of the airing time.

LINK EDIT: Mods don't like Sankaku. If anyone wants to see what kind of stuff is in anime nowadays go to Sankaku and simply browse last 3-4 pages. You will find plenty.

Yes, this kind of shit is sold to minors, and will CONTINUE to be sold to minors. The only thing publishers need to change is to throw away loli sex (and I'm even not sure about that - what's the legal age to have sex in Japan? I heard it's pretty low, so any character older than that can get it on no problem), and incest. How fucked up do you have to be to protest this?

 

[InfiniteNine]

Might want to edit Kreig since I'm pretty sure a mod said not to link to Sankaku under any circumstance.

The only thing publishers need to change is to throw away loli sex (and I'm even not sure about that - what's the legal age to have sex in Japan? I heard it's pretty low, so any character older than that can get it on no problem), and incest. How fucked up do you have to be to protest this?

Anyways I'm against this sort of thing since some genuinely good series can come from these ideas and have already come out. Limiting peoples scope of subjects is pretty terrible. I'm pretty sure mainstream manga publishers don't even have loli sex in any of their series.

 

[Dresden]

To recap, THIS KIND OF STUFF IS STILL LEGAL:

Yes, this kind of shit is sold to minors, and will CONTINUE to be sold to minors.

I don't see anything wrong with this.

It's not the really gross shit, anyways.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I don't see anything wrong with this.

It's not the really gross shit, anyways.

You understand that a minor can be 17-year old, but can also be 12? Regardless, the series I mentioned will continue to be legally sold anyway. The only genres affected by law are incest, loli porn, and anything else that is illegal in real life.

 

[KTallguy]

Anyways I'm against this sort of thing since some genuinely good series can come from these ideas and have already come out. Limiting peoples scope of subjects is pretty terrible. I'm pretty sure mainstream manga publishers don't even have loli sex in any of their series.

The majority of harem animes are all about loli sex. They just never get to the sex part. There is plenty of sexual tension though.

I hate punishing freedom of expression, but I hate the pervasiveness of this incest/loli exploitation bullshit, so I'm not sure how to react.

 

[tiff]

Oh FFS, I love how people jump on moral high horse and accept any sort of shit just for "freedom of expression". While the law is too vague, it is there to prevent a very specific situation: publishers putting pornographic material in magazines, mangas, animation which don't carry "18+" rating. This will never fly with JAV, but since it's drawing it's ok now? Please....

I was speaking outside the scope of this law as much as inside it. I just found "Government regulating stuff I find creepy? Hell yeah!" to be a more common sentiment than I expected.

Although I would like to know the definition of pornographic material. It certainly isn't just anything featuring a sexual act (illegal or otherwise), at least in my eyes.

Yes, this kind of shit is sold to minors, and will CONTINUE to be sold to minors. The only thing publishers need to change is to throw away loli sex (and I'm even not sure about that - what's the legal age to have sex in Japan? I heard it's pretty low, so any character older than that can get it on no problem), and incest. How fucked up do you have to be to protest this?

Am I fucked up for not seeing the problem with a work featuring rape or incest simply on the basis of it featuring rape or incest? I mean, if you have to label pornographic material then you have to label pornographic material, but this brush seems to be insanely wide.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

Let's take a look at this law:

Aren't you missing the top part?

“Any material that may be detrimental toward the healthy development of youth because of their capacity to be sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior.” was the criteria.
- Now the criteria will be expanded to include --

 

[Dresden]

You understand that a minor can be 17-year old, but can also be 12? Regardless, the series I mentioned will continue to be legally sold anyway. The only genres affected by law are incest, loli porn, and anything else that is illegal in real life.

I still don't give a fuck. Wiping them out isn't the answer and regardless of how distasteful you might find it, it's all harmless shit in the end. OMGMORALS.

 

[Trojita]

Found this quote

It should also be noted that governor Ishihara, the man behind this bill, is a notorious right-wing extremist that has publicly offended koreans and chinese people, not to mention his insults on homosexual people (he thinks their DNA is damaged) and anime and manga fan (they, too, have DNA problems and are thus labeled as abnormal). He also openly preaches revisionist opinions regarding Japan's WW2 war crimes in Asia.

To add insult to injury, governor Ishihara is a novelist renowned for extremely debatable novels, ranging from rape&kill scenarios involving an handicapped girl, sexual humiliations, gang rape and so on. Some of his works have been adapted as films, and one of them has allegedly instigated copycats crimes for some time. Of course his works won't be affected by this bill since, as everyone know (except for those with damaged DNA, that is) animation and comics have terrible effects on children while movies and books can only do good.

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

I don't see anything wrong with this.

It's not the really gross shit, anyways.

The one with the cats made me lol.

 

[Crash Station]

Actually, that was the first line from a famous old poem about how the Nazis came to power and became the monsters we all know them as today, and how the Germans rolled over and let it happen, because they believed the Nazis were only targeting the undesirables.

It implies that casual game fans will be rounded up into death camps.

Yeah, I've heard it before. I was just saying there was a bit of a difference since the people in the poem understood what was going on but ignored them because it didn't affect them until it gradually got worse. With this law, people have no idea what they're talking about (me included apparently) with many assuming it's some loli/tentacle/whatever ban when it's actually the opposite.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I still don't give a fuck. Wiping them out isn't the answer and regardless of how distasteful you might find it, it's all harmless shit in the end. OMGMORALS.

I have no problems with the topics presented in Japanese manga/anime :lol I agree it's harmless, and doesn't really do much (Japan is very safe country for kids).

I'm simply amazed at publishers trying to spin that just because they want to continue to sell porn to kids.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Doraemon?! O_O

I haven't followed the series in a long while, but what's in it that could be censored?

Well, even if its very inocent there is still sexual innuendo.
For example all the Shisuka bath scenes were the male characters wants to see her.

Theres even one episode were Doraemon has a tv that can see inside houses or something like that, so Nobita discovers the one channel that gets into Shisuka's bath, wer she is bathing nude (you dont see anything, of course). Doraemon see nobita using the tv like that so he gets mad and tells him to go out of his room. In a very strange twist, Doraemon grins and switches on again the same channel and stares nervously the screen with a grin in his face. :lol

Shin Chan may have the same problems too.

 

[Nekofrog]

Guys guys guys, there's one fool-proof way to solve all of this underage sex stuff. Draw 'em like they're 12, but say they're in junior college.

Worked for all of the h-games from the late 90s.

/shudder

 

[Opiate]

Decided not to post this.

 

[Screaming Fist]

I've got to be honest with you guys, this doesn't really bother me that much.

This O_O