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[ChainedMaster]

How is the porn case in the UK example you've given related to laws hate speech? (It isn't)
The German case was about an old law that prohibits insulting foreign leaders, which, as the article you've linked, has since been repealed to avoid this happening again.

In addition, as per the article you referenced:

It is related because it has to do with the government's power to control speech. In the USA, such a ban would be labeled unconstitutional for precisely the same reason it would be unconstitutional to ban hate speech.

In the German case, if Merkel had her way it would have not been repealed. She apologized to Erdogan for Christ's sake. If the German people didn't knock some sense into her, she would have though that was the reasonable thing to do. Imagine if the Germans had a government friendly to the Turks, they would not have repealed that law. The fact is that hate speech is dictated by the government in power. That's the problem. Whether or not that particular law is repealed is not the issue, but the fact that it was a law and the government has the power to keep it or repeal it. That is not the case in the USA.

 

[Nokterian]

"More speech and better speech."

Nazis are not interested in a debate.

There interested to kill you when they can, because they think you are nothing compared to them, they will do a genocide when they have the chance.

Listen to holocaust survivors, i still can't believe people defend neo nazi's as 'free speech' they never intended to do that.

If you never learned anything from history you should educate yourself.

Listen to the horrors...also fuck bill maher, fucking asshole.

https://twitter.com/attn/status/910559961008058368

 

[Sohter.Nura]

Well, first: murderers and rapists endanger someone else. Therefore, the person that they're endangering are well within their rights to defend themselves. Much like how those that see someone claiming Nazism are defending themselves by responding with violence.

I also encourage victims of domestic abuse to fight back against their perpetrators. That does not make the two equal.

So you're saying is that, if someone is a rapist, we should be allowed to post on social media on his whereabouts, and people should be allowed to go and beat him up, instead of having the police handle it? What if a rapist has served his sentence, but was released after serving, should that still be the case?

Honestly, I'm not trying to defend nazi view points here, I'm just trying to show you how flawed your logic is.

 

[Ostinatto]

Are we talking about nazis in 2017?

how surreal is this? i can't believe it.

 

[daxy]

It is related because it has to do with the government's power to control speech. In the USA, such a ban would be labeled unconstitutional for precisely the same reason it would be unconstitutional to ban hate speech.

In the German case, if Merkel had her way it would have not been repealed. She apologized to Erdogan for Christ's sake. If the German people didn't knock some sense into her, she would have though that was the reasonable thing to do. Imagine if the Germans has a government friendly to the Turks, they would not have repealed that law. The fact is that hate speech is dictated by the government in power. That's the problem. Whether or not that particular law is repealed is not the issue, but the fact that it was a law and the government has the power to keep it or repeal it. That is not the case in the USA.

If your entire point is that the law can be freely interpreted and misused by a regime intent on doing so, then what's the point of legislating anything seeing as it can be used against you? Even supposed free speech, as in the US, is only protected until it steps on the toes of whoever is in power, such as with the recent debacle about NFL and MLB players taking a knee. How about protecting people from groups that seek to spread hate and attempt to fracture society? To me, it seems as if this idealized limitless free speech has primarily benefited those people that seek to create hierarchies based on race and ethnicity.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

So you're saying is that, if someone is a rapist, we should be allowed to post on social media on his whereabouts, and people should be allowed to go and beat him up, instead of having the police handle it?

Honestly, I'm not trying to defend nazi view points here, I'm just trying to show you how flawed your logic is.

Well you aren't doing a very good job at that considering you're putting words in my mouth. I never encouraged vigilantism in any of my posts; I'm merely stating that it's a false equivalence to put Nazis and those violently fighting back agains them are on the same wavelength.

That's a very dangerous road to travel because the implications go back to fingerwagging the Jewish people that fought back against the Nazis as people that are against free speech.

 

[B-Dubs]

So you're saying is that, if someone is a rapist, we should be allowed to post on social media on his whereabouts, and people should be allowed to go and beat him up, instead of having the police handle it? What if a rapist has served his sentence, but was released after serving, should that still be the case?

Honestly, I'm not trying to defend nazi view points here, I'm just trying to show you how flawed your logic is.

It's funny, you talking about logic given the insane jump in it you just made with this post.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

Well you aren't doing a very good job at that considering you're putting words in my mouth. I never encouraged vigilantism in any of my posts; I'm merely stating that it's a false equivalence to put Nazis and those violently fighting back agains them are on the same wavelength.

That's a very dangerous road to travel because the implications go back to fingerwagging the Jewish people that fought back against the Nazis as people that are against free speech

I'm not putting words in your mouth lol you're putting words in your own mouth, i'm just following your logic dude.

 

[B-Dubs]

I'm not putting words in your mouth lol you're putting words in your own mouth, i'm just following your logic dude.

No, you're not.

 

[ChainedMaster]

If your entire point is that the law can be freely interpreted and misused by a regime intent on doing so, then what's the point of legislating anything seeing as it can be used against you? Even supposed free speech, as in the US, is only protected until it steps on the toes of whoever is in power, such as with the recent debacle about NFL and MLB players taking a knee.

It wasn't "freely interpreted". That was the law. Insulting Erdogan was illegal.

Look up the McLibel case. That would never fly in the US. Two people's lives could have been ruined because they were being too mean to McDonald's. The first amendment protects us against such abuses. Anti-libel and anti-insult laws in Germany and the UK are ridiculous.

 

[newjeruse]

I don't think Morello schooled anyone. I also remember him on Bill Maher before the election equivacating Hillary and Trump. So he can fuck off.

 

[legacyzero]

I don't think Morello schooled anyone. I also remember him on Bill Maher before the election equivacating Hillary and Trump. So he can fuck off.

I mean, it wasn't THAT bad. A lesser of two evils argument, perhaps, but he was always for Hillary (at least after he Primary), and grills people who didn't vote for her regularly. He's not against Hillary

 

[xandaca]

It's simple. If you're in or feel at imminent risk of physical danger, you can use reasonable physical force to defend yourself. If you're not in or at risk of physical danger and you use violence, you are the aggressor and you are in the wrong. Hurt feelings is the price grown-ups pay for living in a free society.

 

[Oberon]

Well you aren't doing a very good job at that considering you're putting words in my mouth. I never encouraged vigilantism in any of my posts; I'm merely stating that it's a false equivalence to put Nazis and those violently fighting back agains them are on the same wavelength.

That's a very dangerous road to travel because the implications go back to fingerwagging the Jewish people that fought back against the Nazis as people that are against free speech.

I was talking about wether or not neo can be rehabilitated ( and if it's even something people here want). I wasn't talking about wether someone punching a nazi is as bad as a nazi, but because of courset they're not

No, you're not.

I would like to know where he went wrong, could you explain?

 

[MeBecomingI]

I think you must have linked the wrong video because I didn't see a ton of "schooling" going on.

I saw a back and forth.

This. The hate Bill gets is ridiculous.

Anyway, it was a lively debate that's for sure.

 

[daxy]

It wasn't "freely interpreted". That was the law. Insulting Erdogan was illegal.

Look up the McLibel case. That would never fly in the US. Two people's lives could have been ruined because they were being too mean to McDonald's. The first amendment protects us against such abuses. Anti-libel and anti-insult laws in Germany and the UK are ridiculous.

No it doesn't. Again, you realize libel is also an offense in the US? Moreover, the ECHR later rectified the verdict stating that Steel & Morris were protected by free speech laws in the first place.

 

[B-Dubs]

I was talking about wether or not neo can be rehabilitated ( and if it's even something people here want). I wasn't talking about wether someone punching a nazi is as bad as a nazi, but because of courset they're not



I would like to know where he went wrong, could you explain?

The guy never advocated hurting anyone who wasn't directly threatening you or for vigilante justice. You might say, "my guy, the Nazis aren't directly threatening you," to which I'd respond, "Their very speech calls for the eradication, the systematic genocide, of everyone that is not them and they've been shown to take actions to carry out these threats when given the chance. How is that not a direct threat?"

 

[legacyzero]

This. The hate Bill gets is ridiculous.

Anyway, it was a lively debate that's for sure.

Now this I'm in agreement is. Bill can be really fucking dumb sometimes, but I don't think he's as bad as a lot of folks malign him as.

 

[-MB-]

There interested to kill you when they can, because they think you are nothing compared to them, they will do a genocide when they have the chance.

Listen to holocaust survivors, i still can't believe people defend neo nazi's as 'free speech' they never intended to do that.

If you never learned anything from history you should educate yourself.

Listen to the horrors...also fuck bill maher, fucking asshole.

https://twitter.com/attn/status/910559961008058368

I directly correlate the rise of neo nazism/fascism to the dying off of the generation that underwent the genocide or fought against it.
20 years ago or more your (grand) parents would likely have kicked your ass if u voiced support for these nazi scum. But alas, most of them died off because of old age, and the few left are so old they sit in retirement homes unable to do what is needed.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Do you believe that for example a murderer or a rapist can't be rehabilitated?

If you murder or rape a person, I personally do not care if you can be rehabilitated.

I care about people in jail who are in for drugs, theft, etc. If you break into someone's house and murder or rape a person, you don't deserve rehabilitation.

 

[ntropy]

I directly correlate the rise of neo nazism/fascism to the dying off of the generation that underwent the genocide or fought against it.
20 years ago or more your (grand) parents would likely have kicked your ass if u voiced support for these nazi scum. But alas, most of them died off because of old age, and the few left are so old they sit in retirement homes unable to do what is needed.

the rise of neo nazism/fascism? give me numbers.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"A wise man told me don't argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who."


This Vox had an article called The Case Against Antifa:.

Except that's all a bunch of bullshit. The right hasn't needed ammo for years, they spin and downright lie about anything and everything to get an advantage. People need to learn some history, this both sides crap isn't something new and it sure isn't going away any time soon. This is literally the same mentality as the people who tut-tut blacks and other minorities for not protesting "the right way". Antifa has mostly been getting press recently, are you really trying to suggest that the right was without ammo or unable to spin the disgusting white supremacist shit they hold so dear until now? You lost both chambers of congress and the presidency, that really shows that until the left started "doing things the wrong way" the right had no power. These are racists appealing to a racist base, this was never a discussion they were willing to hear.

I directly correlate the rise of neo nazism/fascism to the dying off of the generation that underwent the genocide or fought against it.
20 years ago or more your (grand) parents would likely have kicked your ass if u voiced support for these nazi scum. But alas, most of them died off because of old age, and the few left are so old they sit in retirement homes unable to do what is needed.

No they fucking wouldn't.

Stop with this revisionist history and rose colored glasses. Nazis aren't just a group that hates jews. The highly racist grandparents that you talk about that did nothing for black people for over 20 years after the end of WWII, many of which supported the disgusting south, would not have "kicked your ass" if you voiced disgust against black people.

 

[-MB-]

the rise of neo nazism/fascism? give me numbers.

You mus have missed all the far right parties getting elected lately? Trump? The Alt-Right? They are way more visible and mainstream than they used to.

 

[WrenchNinja]

This is why the left gets so much shit. Liberal says something you don't like, and he's suddenly labeled as a Nazi or racist by other liberals. Jesus Christ.

what do you call a 61 year old white dude who casually says the n-word

 

[Oberon]

The guy never advocated hurting anyone who wasn't directly threatening you or for vigilante justice. You might say, "my guy, the Nazis aren't directly threatening you," to which I'd respond, "Their very speech calls for the eradication, the systematic genocide, of everyone that is not them and they've been shown to take actions to carry out these threats when given the chance. How is that not a direct threat?"

I get your point. My issue is the question wether they'll be any less hateful once they get punched. Because they way I see it, what ( reasonable) people want is less people that hold the nazi ideology
(And this isn't like in WW2 where they were literally killed and then made illegal by the law)

If you murder or rape a person, I personally do not care if you can be rehabilitated.

I care about people in jail who are in for drugs, theft, etc. If you break into someone's house and murder or rape a person, you don't deserve rehabilitation.

That's settles it then if that's what you believe. I do suggest to inform yourself about the advantages of prisons based on rehabilitation.

The dude in Seattle left his armband behind. Punching rehabilitates Nazis apparently.

I get that you're trying to be funny, but I guess that's what people here believe

 

[neoanarch]

I get your point. My issue is the question wether they'll be any less hateful once they get punched. Because they way I see it, what ( reasonable) people want is less people that hold the nazi ideology
(And this isn't like in WW2 where they were literally killed and then made illegal by the law)

The dude in Seattle left his armband behind. Punching rehabilitates Nazis apparently.

 

[Randam]

Maher going on about how no one throws Jews in ovens therefore it is somehow okay to accept some asshole on the bus. If you wear the symbol of the political party that actually fucking did that then you've actively promoting the idea that their actions are okay.

Maher is an absolute dick head.

This isn't some issue from the distant past. There are still people alive who lived through it.

Qft.

 

[Autodidact]

This. The hate Bill gets is ridiculous.

Anyway, it was a lively debate that's for sure.

Won't someone think of the straight white douche comedians who call anyone offended by their tone-deaf "jokes" sensitive snowflakes?

 

[neorej]

The guy never advocated hurting anyone who wasn't directly threatening you or for vigilante justice. You might say, "my guy, the Nazis aren't directly threatening you," to which I'd respond, "Their very speech calls for the eradication, the systematic genocide, of everyone that is not them and they've been shown to take actions to carry out these threats when given the chance. How is that not a direct threat?"

It is a direct threat and punching a Nazi should always be considered self defense. Fuck Nazis. They are the scum of the Earth. They seek nothing but eradication of anyone who does not comply with their Übermensch ideal, and they're are a direct threat to you, your family, your friends and everyone you know.

Punching a Nazi shouldn't only be condoned, it should be applauded. People should get medals for punching Nazis. Tax exemption. Free taxi fares. Dates with supermodels. "How many Nazis did you punch? 30? Well here, this BMW is on the house." And when a Nazi goes and files a complaint about getting punched, the officer should hunt down the person who punched that Nazi to hand him a reward, and lock the Nazi in jail for being a Nazi, so he can get punched some more by his fellow inmates. Fuck Nazis.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I get your point. My issue is the question wether they'll be any less hateful once they get punched. Because they way I see it, what ( reasonable) people want is less people that hold the nazi ideology
(And this isn't like in WW2 where they were literally killed and then made illegal by the law)

Who gives a shit if they change their mind? No, honestly, who gives a shit? This isn't about saving the hearts and minds of racist pieces of garbage popping off on social media about how they want to murder minorities, this is about showing people that this isn't ok. You're never going to be able to 100% eradicate racism or bigotry in the world, it's impossible but you can overwhelmingly make it unacceptable. To show younger generations that this isn't ok and those groups will be resisted and beaten down and forced to cower into the shadows where they belong. To show them that you can't go on some racist tirade and not lose your job, your way of living and many things you hold dear because you believe a group of people will be eradicated. The racists of today will eventually die off or be outnumbered if people fight back, that's what matters, not saving the soul of some racist.

 

[B-Dubs]

I get your point. My issue is the question wether they'll be any less hateful once they get punched. Because they way I see it, what ( reasonable) people want is less people that hold the nazi ideology
(And this isn't like in WW2 where they were literally killed and then made illegal by the law)

That's their endgame though. That's always their endgame. They might not always say it out loud, but that's what their eventual goal is. Pretending it's not is being willfully blind to reality.

Who gives a shit if they change their mind? No, honestly, who gives a shit? This isn't about saving the hearts and minds of racist pieces of garbage popping off on social media about how they want to murder minorities, this is about showing people that this isn't ok. You're never going to be able to 100% eradicate racism or bigotry in the world, it's impossible but you can overwhelmingly make it unacceptable. To show younger generations that this isn't ok and those groups will be resisted and beaten down and forced to cower into the shadows where they belong. To show them that you can't go on some racist tirade and not lose your job, your way of living and many things you hold dear because you believe a group of people will be eradicated. The racists of today will eventually die off or be outnumbered if people fight back, that's what matters, not saving the soul of some racist.

Yup. This is how you slowly eradicate ideologies like Nazism: you deny them air and watch them wither on the vine. You may not have to punch them, but there's ways to show their actions won't be condoned. Ostracize them, fire them, refuse them platforms from which to speak. Make their very ideology persona non grata among the public to the point where they don't even feel comfortable whispering that shit in an empty room.

 

[RinsFury]

Are we talking about nazis in 2017?

how surreal is this? i can't believe it.

Did you miss Trump getting elected and the rising tide of white supremacy?

 

[televator]

Why do people love to use the slippery slope argument when it comes to punching a person that follows an ideology that actually resulted in the murder and death of tens of millions of people, not some hypothetical, I'm more peaceful than you, thought experiment?

I'll admit that though I don't condemn it, punching a Nazi is not the ideal way to go about things. It would be ideal to have a law about people who are a clear and present danger like this parading around in public and have the police handle it. I view the act of proclaiming yourself a Nazi no differetly that shouting "l'm the mile high bomber" on an airplane. However, society is eroded in America the police and the justice system are in many ways institutions of white supremacy and to some extent have racial biases that align with Nazi doctrine. Given the shitty circumstances we find ourselves in with respect to those things, I don't have a problem with people punching their lights out.

 

[Oberon]

Who gives a shit if they change their mind? No, honestly, who gives a shit? This isn't about saving the hearts and minds of racist pieces of garbage popping off on social media about how they want to murder minorities, this is about showing people that this isn't ok. You're never going to be able to 100% eradicate racism or bigotry in the world, it's impossible but you can overwhelmingly make it unacceptable. To show younger generations that this isn't ok and those groups will be resisted and beaten down and forced to cower into the shadows where they belong. To show them that you can't go on some racist tirade and not lose your job, your way of living and many things you hold dear because you believe a group of people will be eradicated. The racists of today will eventually die off or be outnumbered if people fight back, that's what matters, not saving the soul of some racist.

I mean Donald Trump being president sends a way bigger message than a neo nazi getting punched in the face.
I get your point though, and maybe I am too naive to think that people can change, that the corrupt systems can be changed for the better without resorting to violence. I am also worried that people didn't really think this through and are just letting their emotions speak.

That's their endgame though. That's always their endgame. They might not always say it out loud, but that's what their eventual goal is. Pretending it's not is being willfully blind to reality.

I might have worded is badly, but I ment when the nazis got killed ,and then trialled for what they attrocities they did. And pretty much anything in connection to nazism was banned in germany.

 

[FLEABttn]

I'm just saying. Let the guy have his stupid flag on his arm. Yell at him, call him expletives, shame him in public for his deplorable views, whatever. Don't punch him, don't round him up. Ganging up and rounding up on people with different views, whether they are deplorable (like this nazi dude) or with merit (like not kneeling or even burning the flag) is a fascist social behavior, IMO.

Naw, fuck all that.

I am put in a position where I feel like I have to defend a fucking nazi. This is crazy.

Then don't do it and stop being crazy. This is only hard because you're making it hard.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Except that's all a bunch of bullshit. The right hasn't needed ammo for years, they spin and downright lie about anything and everything to get an advantage. People need to learn some history, this both sides crap isn't something new and it sure isn't going away any time soon. This is literally the same mentality as the people who tut-tut blacks and other minorities for not protesting "the right way". Antifa has mostly been getting press recently, are you really trying to suggest that the right was without ammo or unable to spin the disgusting white supremacist shit they hold so dear until now? You lost both chambers of congress and the presidency, that really shows that until the left started "doing things the wrong way" the right had no power. These are racists appealing to a racist base, this was never a discussion they were willing to hear.

No not at all. That's not what the article meant with ammo. It didn't say or claim the right hasn't had ammo or been able to spin. It just said that antifa attacking and lynching innocent conservatives gave them the ammo they needed to create false equivalencies.

The article points out how peaceful demonstrations have a good track record on bringing positive change.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I mean Donald Trump being president sends a way bigger message than a neo nazi getting punched in the face.
I get your point though, and maybe I am too naive to think that people can change, that the corrupt systems can be changed for the better without resorting to violence



I might have worded is badly, but I ment when the nazis got killed ,and then trialled for what they attrocities they did. And pretty much anything in connection to nazism was banned in germany.

I think you're missing the point. Solely punching Nazis and doing nothing else will 100% absolutely not work. I can absolutely guarantee that. The point is more that recently punching them has been effective to removing them. These people are chicken-shit cowards, not macho men. By punching a couple in the face, they were running in fear and were too chicken-shit to even speak or attend their own rallies. The point is do what's necessary, if you can do it without punching then do it but if you're getting no traction and punching a couple in the face have these cockroaches scattering then why would you not do it? The punches that have taken place weren't people getting like beaten to a pulp or mutilated or something. Usually after a single punch they run for their mommy.

No not at all. That's not what the article meant with ammo. It didn't say or claim the right hasn't had ammo or been able to spin. It just said that antifa attacking and lynching innocent conservatives gave them the ammo they needed to create false equivalencies.

The article points out how peaceful demonstrations have a good track record on bringing positive change.

Except they clearly never needed that ammo. Clearly them and you are saying that that ammo has a large impact or you wouldn't be bringing it up. I'm saying it has little to no impact because they were already using other things and perverting non-violent relatively innocent things to rile up their racist base. Again, like I already said, this didn't begin or end or even grow by any significant margin because Antifa acted like morons a couple times.

 

[ZeoVGM]

That's settles it then if that's what you believe. I do suggest to inform yourself about the advantages of prisons based on rehabilitation.

I'm quite informed on it. Which is why I said I support it in most cases.

Rape is not one of those cases.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It's simple. If you're in or feel at imminent risk of physical danger, you can use reasonable physical force to defend yourself. If you're not in or at risk of physical danger and you use violence, you are the aggressor and you are in the wrong. Hurt feelings is the price grown-ups pay for living in a free society.

I agree.

And since nazism by design is perpetually as much of a threat to the immediate physical well-being of everyone in the vicinity of its practitioners in the same way someone wearing a white hood walking down the street is, reasonable force (punching) is appropriate.

People have managed to somehow forget that to brandish the Nazi symbol and Nazism is to endorse and seek to enforce a constant threat of violence and a state of fear in everyone that doesn't match their racial description. Violence that we have quite a bit of documentation on, if you'll all recall. Violence that stands as unique in many ways in all of human history. It is not a passive threat; it is active incitement and intimidation by simply being and out in public. Just as walking the street in a white hood is. If you understand why someone in a white hood on the street is immediately and intentionally threatening to the physical well-being of people of color by default and design (do I really need to go get you orangutans pictures), then you understand why someone wearing the nazi symbol is a threat as well.

Some here need to stop acting like this shit is passive and non-threatening. Stop trying to pretend you're the smart kid in the room working to defend their free speech. We fight nazis 'round here. If they want to wear symbols of hate, they can prep for a laying on of hands. Nazis will not feel comfortable in my country. They do not get a safe space.

I think you're missing the point. Solely punching Nazis and doing nothing else will 100% absolutely not work. I can absolutely guarantee that. The point is more that recently punching them has been effective to removing them. These people are chicken-shit cowards, not macho men. By punching a couple in the face, they were running in fear and were too chicken-shit to even speak or attend their own rallies. The point is do what's necessary, if you can do it without punching then do it but if you're getting no traction and punching a couple in the face have these cockroaches scattering then why would you not do it? The punches that have taken place weren't people getting like beaten to a pulp or mutilated or something. Usually after a single punch they run for their mommy.

Indeed.

 

[Oberon]

.

Maybe it's because I am too much of a coward, but I still can't advocate for violence I wouldn't able to do myself I appreciate that you took the time to explain that point of view to me though. I never really was worried about some guy wearing a swastika gettting hurt, it was more of the feeling that people would start to think that violence would be the only solution left or something like that.

I'm quite informed on it. Which is why I said I support it in most cases.

Rape is not one of those cases.

Fair enough. I can understand that

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Real issue is that America won't consider white people terrorists. So they get the privilege of "b-b-but the constitution!" while some pro-isis mofos marching getting their asses kicked would get universal applause from America.

Another double standard.

 

[B-Dubs]

Man, I remember when every shooter was WWII themed and everyone was complaining about how Nazis were overdone as bad guys. Devs should never have listened to their shit.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Except they clearly never needed that ammo. Clearly them and you are saying that that ammo has a large impact or you wouldn't be bringing it up. I'm saying it has little to no impact because they were already using other things and perverting non-violent relatively innocent things to rile up their racist base. Again, like I already said, this didn't begin or end or even grow by any significant margin because Antifa acted like morons a couple times.

Have you seen this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFYiz1uTAvQ

Look, you say that there is no measurable impact, but what if this has long term effects? You might not see it now, but it could very well have caused damage you don't see yet.

 

[Oberon]

What if violence becomes the only way? The last time we tried to eliminate Nazism we had the world at war with them. Literal war with bombs, tanks, machine guns, flamethrowers, what then? You seem to think all these white supremacists just need a talking to for an hour and they're all misguided youths who just need a spanking and they'll knock it all off. You can feel however you want but no one is jumping at the chance of violence and you seem to be more making a lame slippery slope argument than facing what is actually happening in the real world. Also, I know nothing about you but given your idealism, you're likely on the younger end of this board and likely not a minority that has to go through this on a daily basis. It's a lot easier when you're not the one they're threatening to shoot by carrying assault rifles or who they beat to a bloody pulp with sticks and shields like in charlottesville and then the police refuse to investigate.

I don't live in america so I guess I don't know how it is over there. And even though my skin is white I was certainly victim of xenophobia. Hell, when I was a kid my house got burned down by someone and we lost pretty much everything, and it was likely because we are immigrants. (it was also during the night to is aswell have been attempted murder)

WOW, I just remember something just now. It's actually a funny story and somwhat releveant. I think one of the reasons I am so adamant about my opinion on punching nazis is because when I was a child ( I was like 10) I was accussed of being a nazi. I held 4 pieces of paper rectalnge in such a way that it presumibly made the look like a swastika. I did that like once while playing around and a guy saw it and looked at me weird. During the break he told me that he told everyone that I was a nazi and that they were going to beat me up after the school. I did not know what a nazi was at that point but I was terrified of being beaten up. During class I was thinking about it and other people were looking at me angerly and I started crying. I told her I was going to get beat up, and the classmates said because I was a nazi. Luckely the teacher settled the whole thing and explained to them how ridiculous that was so every was "fine" at the end

 

[MetaCircular]

What level of extrajudicial violence is acceptable against nazis? Broken bones/skulls, maiming, killing? Assuming this isn't a wartime scenario like WW2.

Who qualifies as a nazi? Does a person need to explicitly identify as a nazi to deserve being attacked (e.g., wearing certain symbols, openly saying they are a nazi, marching at a rally)? This is probably where my line is for punching.

What about more vanilla racists? Gamergaters? MRAs? How many nazi-like characteristics does a person need to display for you to feel comfortable with violence against them?

 

[SenorArdilla]

Wouldn't dressing up in Nazi memorabilia and threatening harm to others be considered fighting words and not protected speech?

 

[ReplacementPelican]

I’m not going to lament a Nazi being punched in the face. It’s a violent ideology and one that led to the deaths of millions of innocents.

Fuck you if you’re willing to tolerate them because of some philosophical thought you think it’s erudite and makes you sound good.

Nazis are evil. They want to murder, separate and destroy our values. If you want to tolerate them because they haven’t ‘yet’ by your estimation then I really don’t see any help for you.

Honeslty, America. You shouldn’t tolerate these people and their ideology, regardless of what people who you’re told are basically infallible wrote down hundreds of years ago.

It makes me depressed to see us all do this again.

-edit-

I just actually can’t. People get punched in the face every day, for all types of stupid fucking shit and I constantly hear about this one dude getting punched in the face and we all have to admonish it and talk about the philosophy of such a stupid, insinficant thing so that pseudo-intellectuals can crow on about ‘both sides’ and ‘but liberals’

A dude got punched in the face, it’s not first page news or worthy of all this debate. People get punched in the face every day.

 

[uncelestial]

You know rule of law was a thing before trump right

Uh yes, you should read this book, as I had to when studying American political science at university.