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[Michael F. Assbender]

Words can hurt.

If someone attacks you with a pencil, must you fight back with a pencil?

Unless he’s John Wick.

Did you know he killed three guys with a pencil? With a fucking pencil.

 

[Maxim726X]

Unless he’s John Wick.

Did you know he killed three guys with a pencil? With a fucking pencil.

Best scene from the second movie, without question.

 

[KHarvey16]

Yeah...sorry it's not a great comparison. I dumbed it down to a low level...

I just don't know how you can expect to sit a person down that has that much hate and bigotry in their heart and expect it to do...anything. It can happen but I just don't see it being at all easy. I also don't think people should be able to go out and spread hate and spew vitriol like Neo Nazi's do and not expect a reaction.

But would violence convince them either?

Words are violence. Words are violence. Words are violence.

The sooner the world recognizes this, the better.

I cannot fucking believe we are living in times where literal Nazis walk the streets and people say, "Eh, First Amendment. What are you gonna do?"

The “words are violence” thing cuts both ways. If we believe in the concept of proportionality (which we all do when it comes to self defense), then violence made up of words should only be met by violence made up by words.

 

[Snkfanatic]

We actually tried for several years. Many of our businesses even worked with the Nazi regime. It wasn't until Pearl Harbor was attacked that the US officially declared war on Nazism.

As for now, I'm all for punching Nazis as long as you accept that it's technically assault and you'll have to prove in court that you were justified. This whole rhetoric about how we should just start shooting Nazis on sight because of WW2 neglects the fact that we declared war on a foreign nation to be able to do that. It might sound good but in reality it'll probably start a civil war. If you're cool with that consequence, by all means.

Yeah, I realize now that was kind of a silly thing to say. Definitely not advocating for people to just shot someone like that.

 

[BruceCLea]

Bill is right. You can't punch away your problems.

 

[neoanarch]

Bill is right. You can't punch away your problems.

He dropped his armband. Problems punched away.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Words are violence. Words are violence. Words are violence.

The sooner the world recognizes this, the better.

I cannot fucking believe we are living in times where literal Nazis walk the streets and people say, "Eh, First Amendment. What are you gonna do?"

How can you possible say that words are violence?

That seems extreme by any definition I can possible think of. Doesn't that disingenuously diminish the much harsher reality of physical assault than verbal abuse?


I understand that people can get hurt by people saying horrible things. But being hurt from verbal abuse is not in the same category as being destroyed physical. You can walk away from verbal abuse. You can change the channel. What option do you have when you're getting your shit punched in or beaten half to death?

 

[Oberon]

He dropped his armband. Problems punched away.

Not sure if serious.
So your problem with neo nazis aren't their damaging views, but wether or not they wear swastikas in public?
Because that's what you're implying here.

 

[Nipo]

How can you possible say that words are violence?

That seems extreme by any definition I can possible think of. Doesn't that disingenuously diminish the much harsher reality of physical assault than verbal abuse?


I understand that people can get hurt by people saying horrible things. But being hurt from verbal abuse is not in the same category as being destroyed physical. You can walk away from verbal abuse. You can change the channel. What option do you have when you're getting your shit punched in or beaten half to death?

Do you think emotionally abused spouses and children have it easier than physically abused ones?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Oh somebody please think of the advocates for mass genocide!

 

[Orayn]

How can you possible say that words are violence?

That seems extreme by any definition I can possible think of. Doesn't that disingenuously diminish the much harsher reality of physical assault than verbal abuse?


I understand that people can get hurt by people saying horrible things. But being hurt from verbal abuse is not in the same category as being destroyed physical. You can walk away from verbal abuse. You can change the channel. What option do you have when you're getting your shit punched in or beaten half to death?

Fascist rhetoric should be treated similarly to an armed person announcing their intent to kill someone, because that's what it literally is in a lot of cases. The guys at rallies know the right words to avoid saying it explicitly, but you'd have to be willfully ignorant to say that's not their intention.

 

[Intheflorsh]

but who are the real nazi

 

[Oberon]

Oh somebody please think of the advocates for mass genocide!

So if someone were to say " I am against prison guards abusing criminals including murderers" would you respond "Oh somebody please think of the criminals!"

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Fascist rhetoric should be treated similarly to an armed person announcing their intent to kill someone, because that's what it literally is in a lot of cases. The guys at rallies know the right words to avoid saying it explicitly, but you'd have to be intentionally ignorant to say that's not their intention.

It hasn't even been two months since that march with a bunch of Nazis screaming about blood & soil until they started assaulting and running people over. The rhetoric can't be separated from the violence. Death is what these groups want.

So if someone were to say " I am against prison guards abusing criminals including murderers" would you respond "Oh somebody please think of the criminals!"

Because abusing people who are already facing punishment for their crimes while also potentially putting the wrongfully accused in harms way is the same as not putting up with people who willingly preach the values of a regime responsible for one of the most atrocious acts in human history.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So if someone were to say " I am against prison guards abusing criminals including murderers" would you respond "Oh somebody please think of the criminals!"

Lol no

You’ve got to come up with better shitty hypotheticals

 

[Gnome Scat]

Hey if someone is walking around with a swastika strapped to their arm then they're asking for it.

 

[Oberon]

Because abusing people who are already facing punishment for their crimes while also potentially putting the wrongfully accused in harms way is the same as not putting up with people who willingly preach the values of a regime responsible for one of the most atrocious acts in human history.

Actually, you're right. That was a pretty dumb analogy. I should have thought about it more before posting it.

Lol no

You’ve got to come up with better shitty hypotheticals

Yeah, I can admit when I am wrong and this is one of those times

 

[Garrett 2U]

Oh somebody please think of the advocates for mass genocide!

We have free speech in the country. You have the right to believe whatever you want.

Of course, some beliefs are going to make you ostracized, and rightfully so.
As a society, we don’t encourage Nazism.

However, as an atheist, I don’t want to be punched in the fact because of my minority view. Even though some would very much appreciate doing so.

So no, I’m not going to encourage violence on anyone for their freedom of speech. But if they threaten myself or someone around me, I will stick up for that person, with force if necessary.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

We have free speech in the country. You have the right to believe whatever you want.

Of course, some beliefs are going to make you ostracized, and rightfully so.
As a society, we don’t encourage Nazism.

However, as an atheist, I don’t want to be punched in the fact because of my minority view. Even though some would very much appreciate doing so.

Serious question: do you know what Nazis are?

 

[Garrett 2U]

Serious question: do you know what Nazis are?

Lol, nice serious question.
Great attempt to belittle my argument.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Lol, nice serious question.

You’re the one bring up the possibility of getting punched for being an atheist as in the same realm of possibility, so hey

 

[Garrett 2U]

You’re the one bring up the possibility of getting punched for being an atheist as in the same realm of possibility, so hey

There’s no adequate comparison to the being a Nazi.
They did absolutely horrible, atrocious things.
And we should gather together and shut them down at every possibility.

But that doesn’t include punching someone in the face if they aren’t instigating violence.

 

[B-Dubs]

We have free speech in the country. You have the right to believe whatever you want.

Of course, some beliefs are going to make you ostracized, and rightfully so.
As a society, we don't encourage Nazism.

However, as an atheist, I don't want to be punched in the fact because of my minority view. Even though some would very much appreciate doing so.

So no, I'm not going to encourage violence on anyone for their freedom of speech. But if they threaten myself or someone around me, I will stick up for that person, with force if necessary.

Again with the slippery slope bull. This is what happens when you have no argument but want to stand on principal.

Lol, nice serious question.
Great attempt to belittle my argument.

You have no argument.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Serious question: do you know what Nazis are?

It does seem like a lot of people don't treat nazis seriously.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Good thing the vast majority of this country isn’t fascist and will listen to reason.

we elected Donald J. Trump as the 45th President of The United States of America.

I challenge your assertion.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Again with the slippery slope bull. This is what happens when you have no argument but want to stand on principal.

You have no argument.

The principle I’m standing on is freedom of speech.
The argument I have is that every citizen of the US is entitled to freedom of speech.

I encourage every one of my fellow citizens to exercise their freedom of speech and oppose any Nazi organization trying to spread their hateful rhetoric.

 

[Garrett 2U]

we elected Donald J. Trump as the 45th President of The United States of America.

I challenge your assertion.

Yes Trump was elected.

But Obamacare hasn’t been repealed, the wall is being blocked, and there’s no blockade on Muslim immigration.

If our country was facist, Trump wouldn’t be failing at every major policy initiative he attempts.

 

[Nipo]

We have free speech in the country. You have the right to believe whatever you want.

Of course, some beliefs are going to make you ostracized, and rightfully so.
As a society, we don’t encourage Nazism.

However, as an atheist, I don’t want to be punched in the fact because of my minority view. Even though some would very much appreciate doing so.

So no, I’m not going to encourage violence on anyone for their freedom of speech. But if they threaten myself or someone around me, I will stick up for that person, with force if necessary.

You also have the right to trial by jury if you decide to punch a nazi. if one of those jurors feels your actions are just you won't be punished by the courts.

 

[Captin Quacker]

The principle I’m standing on is freedom of speech.
The argument I have is that every citizen of the US is entitled to freedom of speech.

I encourage every one of my fellow citizens to exercise their freedom of speech and oppose any Nazi organization trying to spread their hateful rhetoric.

No one is tryin to take anybody free speech, in fact it's because of free speech the dumbass was able to put on his nazi gear and go run his mouth

 

[Garrett 2U]

You also have the right to trial by jury if you decide to punch a nazi. if one of those jurors feels your actions are just you won't be punished by the courts.

I absolutely agree.

No one is tryin to take anybody free speech, in fact it's because of free speech the dumbass was able to put on his nazi gear and go run his mouth

Correct. And as a society we should be able to easily disregard his blatantly ignorant opinion.

 

[Manoko]

The principle I'm standing on is freedom of speech.
The argument I have is that every citizen of the US is entitled to freedom of speech.

I encourage every one of my fellow citizens to exercise their freedom of speech and oppose any Nazi organization trying to spread their hateful rhetoric.

To some people freedom of speech depends on what speech you're giving, and that's a slippery slope its universality actually prevents from happening, and rightfully so.

I wouldn't punch a Nazi because of his/her opinions, but I would try my hardest to counter his/her point of view so that listeners understand the harmful nature of it, and hopefully disregard them and are intellectually armed to do so.

I would never want to silence anyone though, as it achieves no good whatsoever.

 

[Captin Quacker]

I absolutely agree.



Correct. And as a society we should be able to easily disregard his blatantly ignorant opinion.

kinda hard when alot of the country as well as the president agree with him

 

[Aselith]

Maher dropping a Hogans Heroes reference pretty much says everything about his current cultural relevance. Time to retire.

Not sure if serious.
So your problem with neo nazis aren't their damaging views, but wether or not they wear swastikas in public?
Because that's what you're implying here.

Their views always existed. The CURRENT problem is that they feel comfortable stating and expressing them openly. So yes the problem is him feeling comfortable wearing the armband.

 

[Gaz_RB]

I mean you shouldn't ever be punching anyone for their speech or what they're wearing. Violence should be an absolute last line of defense if we're to keep up a safe and civilized society. But to be honest if I'm in that situation I'm not gonna stop anybody from punching a "nazi", and I'm not really gonna critique it either--if anyone deserves to get punched, it's nazis--it's just not going to help change any minds and you should be ok with getting thrown in jail. For most, me included, it's worth getting tossed in jail for this.

And to people comparing any of this to World War II/US and Nazi Germany, I'm just not sure if you're joking or just willfully/innocently ignorant of history.

Seems some have a problem differentiating between a defense of freedom of speech as it relates to the government and a defense of white supremacists or their views. With that said, I don't see a problem with punching nazis as long as you're ok with the consequences. Morally, you've got the infinitely higher ground, obviously.

As an aside--when it comes down to it, the Right will use this as "oh my god freedom of speech" because it's their guys, but then turn right around and yell at football players for taking a knee. It's hypocritical, but both sides don't seem to realize the first amendment is supposed to protect the people from the government, not the people from the people.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Maher dropping a Hogans Heroes reference pretty much says everything about his current cultural relevance. Time to retire.

Bill’s response:

 

[Nokterian]

We aren’t Nazi Germany, even with Trump in the White House we are far off.

Not yet..you don't know how fast fascism takes hold, before you can say what happend? It will be to late.

First they come for your freedom, then they come for the rest.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Not yet..you don't know how fast fascism takes hold, before you can say what happend? It will be to late.

First they come for your freedom, then they come for the rest.

But who is they? And have they come for our freedom yet?

The world is far different than it was in the early 1900s, not to mention our country is far different than Germany at that time.

 

[Nokterian]

But who is they? And have they come for our freedom yet?

The world is far different than it was in the early 1900s, not to mention our country is far different than Germany at that time.

Nazi's who fucking else? Since Trump did not condemn them and blaming 'both sides' there free to go anywhere and yet they killed a protester and injured dozens of people.

Doesn't matter if the world is different, wake..the..fuck..up. If nazi's get a hold on more power they will use that ideology no matter what.

 

[B-Dubs]

The principle I'm standing on is freedom of speech.
The argument I have is that every citizen of the US is entitled to freedom of speech.

I encourage every one of my fellow citizens to exercise their freedom of speech and oppose any Nazi organization trying to spread their hateful rhetoric.

Free speech isn't what people are talking about here. Free speech concerns the government limiting your speech, not the rest of the public making your speech so hated that you're afraid to say it. Punching a Nazi so he doesn't speak isn't infringing on his free speech rights. Just because the government can't stop them from spewing their shit doesn't mean we have to tolerate it.

To some people freedom of speech depends on what speech you're giving, and that's a slippery slope its universality actually prevents from happening, and rightfully so.

I wouldn't punch a Nazi because of his/her opinions, but I would try my hardest to counter his/her point of view so that listeners understand the harmful nature of it, and hopefully disregard them and are intellectually armed to do so.

I would never want to silence anyone though, as it achieves no good whatsoever.

The White Roses did that in Germany before the Nazis took power. Guess how it turned out for them?

 

[Timeaisis]

I haven't watched anything from Bill Maher in a long time, and seeing this video, I'll resume that streak. Outright saying people who punch Nazis are just as bad as Nazis. Get fucked, Maher.

Ok, here's an interesting question for you, and anyone else willing to chime in.

If someone is a self-professed Nazi who has not committed violence against anyone their entire life and someone else is an antifascist who regularly assaults Nazis unprovoked, whose the worse person?

Let's also assume this antifascist punched this self-professed Nazi in this example. Is it actions or ideology that makes someone a terrible (or more terrible) person?

I don't want to take sides, I just think this is an interesting topic that both sides tend to avoid via platitudes, e.g "Nazis are evil, they deserve it" or "the first amendment protects all, including Nazis".

 

[Nokterian]

Ok, here's an interesting question for you, and anyone else willing to chime in.

If someone is a self-professed Nazi who has not committed violence against anyone their entire life and someone else is an antifascist who regularly assaults Nazis unprovoked, whose the worse person?

Let's also assume this antifascist punched this self-professed Nazi in this example. Is it actions or ideology that makes someone a terrible (or more terrible) person?

I don't want to take sides, I just think this is an interesting topic that both sides tend to avoid via platitudes, e.g "Nazis are evil, they deserve it" or "the first amendment protects all, including Nazis".

Educate yourself..

 

[Gaz_RB]

Nazi's who fucking else? Since Trump did not condemn them and blaming 'both sides' there free to go anywhere and yet they killed a protester and injured dozens of people.
Y
Doesn't matter if the world is different, wake..the..fuck..up. If nazi's get a hold on more power they will use that ideology no matter what.

I just don't see a scenario where they get any actual power barring some insane series of events.

You're scared and wasting energy in the wrong direction. We have far bigger things to deal with in this country like institutional racism, climate change, healthcare, the eroding of the separation of powers, a broken electoral system that allows someone like Trump to win despite a majority vote against him, etc, than some simplistic "nazi" boogieman. To me it's a distraction, a side show. Look at the controversy in trump's right hand while he uses his left to fuck everything up.

Educate yourself..

"Here's a cartoon, educate yourself"

 

[B-Dubs]

Ok, here's an interesting question for you, and anyone else willing to chime in.

If someone is a self-professed Nazi who has not committed violence against anyone their entire life and someone else is an antifascist who regularly assaults Nazis unprovoked, whose the worse person?

Let's also assume this antifascist punched this self-professed Nazi in this example. Is it actions or ideology that makes someone a terrible (or more terrible) person?

I don't want to take sides, I just think this is an interesting topic that both sides tend to avoid via platitudes, e.g "Nazis are evil, they deserve it" or "the first amendment protects all, including Nazis".

You do realize that the Nazis literally want everyone who isn't them dead, right? Like, that's literally at the core of their ideology. This ain't about right vs left, this is about genocide vs not.

Seriously, you need to do some reading, because damn.

 

[theCalamity]

Surprised this wasn't posted yet

 

[Nokterian]

I just don't see a scenario where they get any actual power barring some insane series of events.

You're scared and wasting energy in the wrong direction. We have far bigger things to deal with in this country like institutional racism, climate change, healthcare, the eroding of the separation of powers, a broken electoral system that allows someone like Trump to win despite a majority vote against him, etc, than some simplistic "nazi" boogieman. To me it's a distraction, a side show. Look at the controversy in trump's right hand while he uses his left to fuck everything up.



"Here's a cartoon, educate yourself"

Not a cartoon it is reality, clearly you do not understand it.

 

[FyreWulff]

It does matter. One group had the power to commit genocide and cause the largest war in the history of the world. The other is a fringe group on the margins that holds no respect, political power, etc and is basically powerless. Treating Group #2 like it's directly continuous with Group #1 is not going to serve a purpose.

These people have held seats in government and passed laws specifically desired by the group.

Pretending Nazis are some random internet group is dangerous. They are organized, have money, and are actively recruiting. They have marketing groups. Pretending they aren't there just lets them operate and expand in the void you are allowing them to live in.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Ok, here's an interesting question for you, and anyone else willing to chime in.

If someone is a self-professed Nazi who has not committed violence against anyone their entire life and someone else is an antifascist who regularly assaults Nazis unprovoked, whose the worse person?

Let's also assume this antifascist punched this self-professed Nazi in this example. Is it actions or ideology that makes someone a terrible (or more terrible) person?

I don't want to take sides, I just think this is an interesting topic that both sides tend to avoid via platitudes, e.g "Nazis are evil, they deserve it" or "the first amendment protects all, including Nazis".

I mean it's his ideology of wanting to kill millions that makes him worse. The ANTIFA guy still has the moral high ground here. Although the violence isn't going to change anything, in my opinion.

None of that has anything to do with the first amendment, as long as the government acts accordingly.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Ah, the mystical “peaceful Nazi”

 

[Timeaisis]

You do realize that the Nazis literally want everyone who isn't them dead, right? Like, that's literally at the core of their ideology. This ain't about right vs left, this is about genocide vs not.

Seriously, you need to do some reading, because damn.

Of course I realize that. I'm asking an ethical hypothetical question here. If you're not interested in answering it, that's fine. Don't attack me, attack the argument.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Not a cartoon it is reality, clearly you do not understand it.

But you're not going to change that poster's mind by posting it and saying "educate yourself".