-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Tomb Raider Multiplayer (Eidos Montreal) Details
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
This could have a backward meaning like... "you're turning the franchise to gold!"
I honestly think more than being Uncharted clone, this is about the latest industry trend of trying to get gamers to keep their copies for longer periods of time with replay value, and they feel the easiest way to do this is with multiplayer. All order of games this gen are getting lame multiplayer modes that nobody ends up playing anyway because that's not the focus of these games and developers/publishers still don't understand the concept of not throwing money away on shit that isn't the main draw for most people purchasing these games.
I mean I thought Uncharted had a really fun multiplayer aspect, but that's the exception to the rule rather than the norm. And in any event, this game is such a backfire in all ways I can hardly expect this will turn out special... especially since the multiplayer modes are just lame me-too thoughtless crap. Except maybe "Cry for Help", but we'll never know until some other undetermined time because they keep focusing on shit that has nothing to do with anything that made people love the Tomb Raider series
Jawmuncher
Member
I'm still excited. MP sounds like it could be a fun distraction.
I bought Tomb Raider 1 on the Steam sale last night. So far, in just two levels, I've been mauled by a bear, cut down by a swinging scythe, drowned underwater as I searched desperately for a switch to open a trapdoor, and been crippled by at least two falls from three stories high (once a mis-timed jump, the other because I didn't press X to grab a ledge in time).
And this game will have none of that!!! Madness.
And this game will have none of that!!! Madness.
I think the Midas analogy works perfectly. Midas was obsessed with wealth and lost sight of the things that really matter. Eidos/Square is making this game this way because they think it will make them more money, and it may, but they've given the game the personality of cold, lifeless gold.This could have a backward meaning like... "you're turning the franchise to gold!"
I agree. It's getting to where publishers won't make a game without multiplayer. I don't think this game set out to become derivative. I think the multiplayer was one of the biggest demands from Eidos/Square and so they copied the gameplay of various successful games that have multiplayer; Uncharted being the most similar thematically.Amir0x said:
Haha, you took the analogy to the next level. I was just thinking purely in simplistic 'what the picture looks like' level. But yeah when you describe it like that, I guess it does make sense lol
That's true. They seem to have one mode at least that isn't completely derivative, but hey... every time something like that could possibly be true about something in this game, they just decide not to show it sooo... who knows!
Well, that was my thought process making it. I knew it might be taken "we're rich!" but I thought it being a death animation plus the anti greed message of the story of Midas would make clear the intention. You could say that Lara is Eidos' daughter, and they've turned her into a lifeless shell in their pursuit of wealth. Though in today's world many business leaders would probably just shrug their shoulders and melt their daughters down into gold coins.
It's not a real Tomb Raider game, so yeah they even add whatever they want, online,co-op,item market, cards mini game, always on first person view...
I just need them to bring the real Tomb Raider games and the real Lara back after doing whatever they want with this thing.
I just need them to bring the real Tomb Raider games and the real Lara back after doing whatever they want with this thing.
sublimit
Banned
Same.I couldn't care less if this game had MP or not if the SP was what i wanted it to be.
But as it is this shows that they designed the SP game specifically to support the MP mode.Hubs,combat and shooting mechanics,upgradable weapons etc.It's really sad to see another game's SP transformed because of the MP.
I don't think Crystal is capable of doing that anymore.
NullPointer
Member
Sure seems that way.
What are publisher expectations for multiplayer in a game like this? Do they honestly expect it to take off, or would they be satisfied with a very small percentage of players keeping it going?
I'm still not giving up entirely. After all are those still the same guys who made Tomb Raider after Angel of Darkness relevant again.
From what I heard is it there to capture the audience who only buys about one game per month. If those people have to decide between a SP only game and a game with MP they'll choose the latter because they'll get more hours out of it.
But by the same token, Core made Angel of Darkness, and they had also made the original Tomb Raider. Anyone can fall from grace.
The important thing would be whether the team is composed of the same people as the previous games or not. I don't know if that info is readily available somewhere or not.
The problem I think is with Square Enix and what they want from the Eidos IPs( look at Hitman: Absolution).
just wait and next time Wada/Square might turn Legacy of Kain reboot into medieval warfare first person shooter co-op focused game with huge online full of "cool" perks.
NullPointer
Member
radioheadrule83
Banned
This could have a backward meaning like... "you're turning the franchise to gold!"
I honestly think more than being Uncharted clone, this is about the latest industry trend of trying to get gamers to keep their copies for longer periods of time with replay value, and they feel the easiest way to do this is with multiplayer. All order of games this gen are getting lame multiplayer modes that nobody ends up playing anyway because that's not the focus of these games and developers/publishers still don't understand the concept of not throwing money away on shit that isn't the main draw for most people purchasing these games.
I mean I thought Uncharted had a really fun multiplayer aspect, but that's the exception to the rule rather than the norm. And in any event, this game is such a backfire in all ways I can hardly expect this will turn out special... especially since the multiplayer modes are just lame me-too thoughtless crap. Except maybe "Cry for Help", but we'll never know until some other undetermined time because they keep focusing on shit that has nothing to do with anything that made people love the Tomb Raider series
As well as trying to add replay value, which is a noble aim, I think some developers and publishers feel like more features / more modes = better chance of higher metacritic scores. The chances of such scores are dwindling unless this is raw fucking awesome to play, because they really do not have any control of the message anymore, and older fans of the franchise (including myself) are eyeing this release with cynicism and skepticism. The first big mistake was trying to make the Uncharted similarities out to be part of some grand maturing in tomb raider storytelling and aggrandise it with statements like 'you will want to protect her' which were met with instant ridicule. Their trumpet blowing and promotion, which normally I think we'd be more open to, is being met consistently with jokes and raised eyebrows. They shouldn't have taken themselves so seriously... Such a huge change to the games is something they should have dealt with more gingerly.
I still hope it's really good
Coolbgdog12
Member
need videos.
sublimit
Banned
After Underworld's release there have been quite many lay offs inside Crystal and new people came in.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
I love it how the interact icon appears in the last second.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Everyone saying this will be dead in a few weeks is gonna be eating crow. Firstly...I think itÂ’ll more than likely be good. And secondly, never underestimate the brand name of 'Tomb Raider'.
Also, IÂ’m curious. Are any of the people not happy with this game Resident Evil fans? IÂ’d love to know what you thought of Resident Evil 4 before it released. It seems like a similar situation.
Also, IÂ’m curious. Are any of the people not happy with this game Resident Evil fans? IÂ’d love to know what you thought of Resident Evil 4 before it released. It seems like a similar situation.
Tell that to Eidos.
I'd say RE4 is closer to the Crystal Dynamics TR trilogy. This is more like RE5/RE6 and Modern Sonic the Hedgehog games.
I think one of Eidos/SE's main problems is overestimating the brand name of their franchises. They thought Hitman was a lot bigger than it was and a lot more hyped than it was and it fell on its face.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
I have zero idea how you came to that. RE4 changed the formula, not RE5 or RE6. And comparing this to modern Sonic? WAT?
Well I suppose that's why they thought Tomb Raider needed a bit of a shake up. This one will no doubt pull in a bigger crowd than previous Tomb Raiders. Also, the marketing had been pretty good too....
There are franchises bigger than Tomb Raider that have shoehorned in multiplayer just like this and have had a completely dead online community within a month. There's nothing special about yet another deathmatch game or another capture the flag remix, or any of the modes they're talking about here - it's all retreaded yawn stuff in a series that nobody on holy Earth ever asked for a multiplayer mode for (unless it's the type of multiplayer explicitly centered around Tomb Raider-esque strengths; which, of course, this is not).
Resident Evil 4 retained a significant amount of the flavor of the series while adding in new stuff that modernized it in an intelligent fashion. The differences between what is going on with TR and what went on with RE4 is so vast it's almost comical to compare the two.
Tomb Raider stripped every last thing that was ever good about the franchise and took a steamy, watery shit all over it. You may anticipate it, but it's not Tomb Raider in any sense of the word. Resident Evil 4 took much of the great trappings of the RE series and simply ratcheted up the action and toned down the horror a bit. And they modernized the gameplay in intelligent, meaningful ways that changed the genre for the better.
Not only does Tomb Raider not have a single new idea in its repertoire, every single thing it does is worse than what came before in the series. Shittier platforming, shittier puzzling, shittier atmosphere. 'Bout the only thing it does better, probably, is combat, and that's the thing any self-respecting Tomb Raider fan will say they give a shit about the least. Because that's not what the series is about.
This combat-whore QTE no-control at all fest is fine for some people, and I respect that, but it's not Tomb Raider and this ain't fucking Resident Evil 4.
Again this is what they thought about Hitman and Absolution tanked. It's selling really bad overall and it was rated worse than Blood Money and it likely forever alienated the core base. It was a failure on all fronts all because they thought dudebroing it up a lot would help it sell more.
Crystal Dynamics changed the TR formula about as much with the trilogy. They made the games more actiony while retaining a lot of what the franchise was known for. This game bears no resemblance to Tomb Raider.
This game has been shaken up in the way that a practitioner of homeopathy shakes up a solution.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Amir0x, you think the atmosphere looks worse here? If anything I think that's the games strongest point (have you seen the 90 minute IGN video?) The music cues, the sense of isolation, the attention to detail, the lighting, weather effects etc. You can slam the game all you want, but saying the atmosphere is a step down from previous games is crazy talk. Anyway......we're just going to keep going in circles, it's obvious I’m just going to have to agree to disagree with you guys. I personally love the direction they’re going with. To me they are doing pretty much everything right, simple as that.
Hopefully you guys can enjoy the game for what it is when it comes out.
Hopefully you guys can enjoy the game for what it is when it comes out.
Of course it's worse. Tomb Raider is about isolation, dark tombs with very little light, creepy ancient tombs weathered by years of disuse, a dusty hand pulling back cobwebs to reveal glyphs and artwork.
This Tomb Raider is about climbing around a generic island with explosions and vicious QTE. I know which atmosphere I prefer.
Anyway, if you're a fan of Tomb Raider, there's no way you can say they're doing everything right. You really want to play a Tomb Raider game where platforming is lazy hand-held shit, where pressing UP to climb is all you do 99% of the time and dying via platforming is non-existent? You really want to play a Tomb Raider game with Tombs completely de-emphasized, exploration completely cut up into linear slices of nothingness? A combat system where you press Y to see her brutally kill someone with no interaction from you?
I really wonder about people sometimes. If people don't want to actually play a game, why are they even playing videogames? Watch a movie or something. This game is barely interactive nonsense. I hope I enjoy it too when I buy it in the bargain bin, but I've played the demo, seen the gameplay videos, read impressions and previews. There's no way anything is going to change from now until launch. We know what this game is. It's a genuine Tomb Raider fans worst nightmare.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Best I can do is try not to fault the game for what it isn't. I mean, difficult as that will be, it is what it is. It's a game taking all its cues from Uncharted, that has left most of the things people positively identify with Tomb Raider on the cutting room floor. It's a "me too" microcosm of modern game design. I mean this formula is getting really boring.
Maybe there will be a fun game in there. But I was really excited to play Tomb Raider...
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
I think this game has some of the most impressive atmosphere I've seen from a game in a long time. It looks bloody amazing.
NullPointer
Member
Agreed on some aspects of the atmosphere, but it depends how that plays out. How much of the game is driven by combat, and how much is exploration, platforming and environmental puzzles?
What they've shown so far is combat, executions, micro-tasks and collectibles, cinematics, multiplayer and only the barest bones of traversal and puzzles, although they hint that there are more and larger tombs as the story progresses.
More than anything I'd love to be wrong about this game, but if the focus is on combat than Amir0x is completely right (and my gut BTW). Going by what has been shown it doesn't look good.
Tricky I Shadow said:
I'm sure you do, you're bloody singleminded in defending this game against the hordes of disappointed Tomb Raider fans. I simply think you've done a poor job illustrating what is appealing about such a product as this, nor why any Tomb Raider fan shouldn't spit on its grave.
If you hate the Tomb Raider series and everything it stands for, I can understand preferring anything that is not Tomb Raider. And so maybe you don't actually want to play a game and you prefer developers do everything for you. Maybe that's just the way you groove. I just don't think you should act all PERPLEXED about where the hate is coming from. The game design of this title is absolute, lowest common denominator garbage.
Neuromancer
Member
Sounds fucking awful. No thanks.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Crows are gonna be on the verge of extinction come March 5th.
Phife Dawg
Member
Would have been boss if she pushed the button before breaking her neck.
Previous as in the old TRs or previous as in the underperforming TRs? The latter may happen the former is pretty unlikely.
A lot of games late this gen have been underperforming, I don't really see why this should be different tbh. It will probably pull some decent launch numbers considering the marketing and everything (blockbuster baby!) but then it'll probably fall flat. I expect to buy this a couple of weeks after release heavily discounted in the UK.
Just wanted to say that I saw your original post before you edited this one wherein you said you were going to explain what should appeal to Tomb Raider fans or why cynics shouldn't be so negative after you got off of work...
...does this mean, with your edit, I should expect no such discussion? Given the tone of this new post, I guess I'll ask once more:
do you have any reason why cynics will be wrong about this game, or is everything we said entirely accurate and you just like it anyway? In which case, you realize, there will be no crow served.
I remember this guy claiming that the Uncharted series is revolutionnary, that alone should tell you that he will love everything remotely akin to this formula.
This Tomb Raider is shaping up to be very close to Uncharted in many respects, it's not surprising to see people unfamiliar with TR jumping on board.
That's irrelevant to the discussion but even as someone who likes the old TR I welcome this change because I love story/character driven games.
Here's my thought on why I am prodding here. It's not that I think people can't legitimately like this Tomb Raider game. But the critics are producing a series of very straightforward issues with this title that extend to its complete destruction of the principles that made this series great, and with its diminishing value of player control with auto-platforming, QTEs, set pieces, etc. Then people like Tricky keep acting like we should expect "crow" or some other form of humbling public appraisal. But why? Everything we have said is accurate: it has destroyed anything that even remotely relates to the appeal of Tomb Raider, it does have all those issues we discuss.
In other words, Tricky I Shadow (and many others as I can read in TR topics) seem to think we're being UNFAIR about our criticism toward this game. I just want to know in what way they feel we're wrong about this title... it doesn't seem any of these individuals have been able to articulate why they feel that way.
I wholeheartedly agree with that, the game gets a lot of shit from the old TR fans and I can see why. I cannot say it's not deserved because they did nothing to alleviate those fears.
Yeah, that's all I'm saying. I'm saying "sure, this can be very fun for a lot of people. But as a Tomb Raider fan, it's immensely disappointing and here's why: ___________." Certain individuals like Tricky keep being dismissive of us, as if what we're saying is callous or unfair or worse somehow these conclusions are being made without enough information. As if we're jumping to conclusions! I just think at this point we have enough information to make an informed conclusion about what we're getting. And hey, what we're getting is fine for plenty of people. It's just not "fine" in the way that appeals to most fans of Tomb Raider.
Heh, it sounds like she's completely dismissing the serious tone they were trying to paint in early interviews:
It seems to me she's saying " this isn't meant to be taken super seriously like those things, she's just the type of person who is always experiencing new challenges."
am I reading this wrong?
My biggest beef is with the game not really being Tomb Raider, but it has problems that exist outside comparison to the old games. If you love story/character driven games, then I assume you should want those things to be good. By all we've seen the narrative and characterization in this game are terrible.
Also, this change is not necessary to have more story and characterization, so you shouldn't welcome it for that reason.
sublimit
Banned
If you can tolerate of being insulted and flamed by insecure 15 year old kids for daring to critisize this game then you should try ask this question in the TRForums lol.
I mean look at posts like these:
I mean what really can you answer to a post like that?No offense to Tricky but it seems he belongs to this group of "fans" that either don't have the slightest clue of what TR is about or they deliberately close their eyes and ears to the concerns most people seem to have towards this game.They are trying to spin it and twist it to make it look like there's a whole secret game there that no one else has managed to see except for a very few selective "fans".
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yeah, I remember when they were saying that this one of the moments that change Lara. Until now she was just some normal girl that is put in a life or death situation that changes and now she faced challenges before?
Give me a break. The PR with the game has been disastrous.
Nope, TPS wasn't even a very popular genre back then. And actually RE4 had a very unique look at TPS mechanics with distintive and excellent level design.
RE4 was a game that inspired a new batch of action games and set a landmark on TPS design. Tomb Raider is the product of a cold, lifeless, countless focus groups thet betrays the essence of the series.
sublimit
Banned
Exactly.
Yes. She is actually describing it a series of challenges that lead to bad arse Lara and that the specific scene didn't trigger Lara the killing machine unlike the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Which is weird considering the lead of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo didn't have a flip switched either. She was (modern city) survivalist long before her scene with the social services worker. So Ms. Prachett is making the same mistake that she claims everyone else is making.
Now I kind of hope one of Lara's finish hims/fatalities has her shouting "ARRRRR" before she splatters his blood on the camera.