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[diamondstar]

Charge as it is now is useless because 95% of the time you're surrounded by multiple enemies so that even if you've successfully charged one (or shotgunned him), you'd still have to deal with several others who'd likely shoot you face-blank or in the back as you try to run back for cover.

Yea I loved Vanguard in ME but didn't care for it in ME2. It would have been better if every upgrade allowed you to charge multiple enemies. Then at least you could charge and then jump back out of danger. Or charge at a group of enemies, jumping from one to another then taking out a shotgun and blasting all 3 while stunned. Now that would be cool.

I loved using Cryo roounds and then charging. It was cool as shit at first but the fun factor wore off quick.

 

[ChoklitReign]

Nothing beats Infiltrators with Cloak + Widow rifle though. I just wish that weapon had more ammo than 13.

It takes 3 headshots to kill soldiers on hardcore. That class is crippled on high difficulties.

 

[Lostconfused]

Nothing beats Infiltrators with Cloak + Widow rifle though. I just wish that weapon had more ammo than 13.

Heightened adrenaline rush and Mattock rifle.

 

[Jarmel]

It takes 3 headshots to kill soldiers on hardcore. That class is crippled on high difficulties.

With the Widow? You're doing it wrong then. Infiltrator is second only to soldier in regards to DPS due to the Cloak.

 

[Mindlog]

No I'm saying that charge is stupid because what happens is if you charge some lone dude, it barely does any damage, then you can either shoot them point black with the shotgun or melee them, but even with a recharge your shields last like two seconds out of cover meaning your window of attacking and getting the fuck to cover is low because the mobs can just focus fire you down. It would be much more fun for charge to knock them away then you run to cover and do it over untill you're just pinballing all the mobs in the level.

A good vanguard is pinballing through mobs.
Knockback is also the opposite of what a good Vanguard wants. It pushes enemy out of shotgun/right hook range.

However, if all you want to do is knock over groups then just turn the difficulty down.

I prefer the Viper over the Widow as a soldier.

 

[EatChildren]

It takes 3 headshots to kill soldiers on hardcore. That class is crippled on high difficulties.

Infiltrator...crippled...oh high difficulties?

 

[Dark Stalkers]

It takes 3 headshots to kill soldiers on hardcore. That class is crippled on high difficulties.

you must be on that good shit

 

[ChoklitReign]

Well it's just my experience. Maybe 2 headshots. And I'm using Widow & cloak like you guys. I'm actually stuck on a part with krogans because I'm out of ammo for almost every gun.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Yamashita's art style really clashes with ME

 

[Wallach]

Infiltrator...crippled...oh high difficulties?

Crippling boredom, maybe.

But then once you cryo/pull/throw some guy 300ft into the air, most anything else seems boring.

 

[HarryHengst]

Charge as it is now is useless because 95% of the time you're surrounded by multiple enemies so that even if you've successfully charged one (or shotgunned him), you'd still have to deal with several others who'd likely shoot you face-blank or in the back as you try to run back for cover.

No its not useless. You are just using it wrong. You shouldnt charge in the middle of a group, you should play it more tactically and take out the sides.

 

[Sophuis]

Charge as it is now is useless because 95% of the time you're surrounded by multiple enemies so that even if you've successfully charged one (or shotgunned him), you'd still have to deal with several others who'd likely shoot you face-blank or in the back as you try to run back for cover.

...Area Charge?

 

[HDgaming42]

How? Everything shown from ME3 looks much better than ME2. So far the combat looks 10x better and the RPG features are back. Whats the unexplained hate for?

Take a trip over to the Mass Effect Franchise Bitching Thread if you really don't get the hate...

How long before there's a Facebook campaign to sign George Kamitani for Mass Effect 4? That man knows how to enlarge a pair of breasts.

(I'm actually pretty stoked for Dragon's Crown, but come on. Mass Effect was supposed to be so much more...)

 

[HarryHengst]

Take a trip over to the Mass Effect Franchise Bitching Thread if you really don't get the hate...

How long before there's a Facebook campaign to sign George Kamitani for Mass Effect 4? That man knows how to enlarge a pair of breasts.

(I'm actually pretty stoked for Dragon's Crown, but come on. Mass Effect was supposed to be so much more...)

That thread is so retarded. Bunch of manchilds whining that the game isnt exactly what they want it to be, ugh.

 

[Gvaz]

That thread is so retarded. Bunch of manchilds whining that the game isnt exactly what they want it to be, ugh.

Yeah bitching that a game series has great ideas then never knows how to fix them so it throws the baby out with the bathwater is retarded, surely.

 

[Snuggles]

That thread is so retarded. Bunch of manchilds whining that the game isnt exactly what they want it to be, ugh.

haters gon' hate yo

 

[HarryHengst]

Yeah bitching that a game series has great ideas then never knows how to fix them so it throws the baby out with the bathwater is retarded, surely.

It is when your criticisms really dont go any further than "this isnt baldurs gate so it sucks".

 

[DatBreh]

Yeah bitching that a game series has great ideas then never knows how to fix them so it throws the baby out with the bathwater is retarded, surely.

Sorry but you are falling into the same category the guy you quoted is speaking of. What is the "baby" that they threw out? The only thing i can possibly see people complaining about is the removal of the explorable planets. Seeing as how those were nothing more than jagged mountains with a different skin i cant say i miss them that much.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I always thought the Widow's damage was calculated wrongly. Most of the shots to the head will take all the shields and leave <5% of HP. Stupid waste of two bullets. I have the rifle the size of a tank, heads should be flying left and right.

 

[HDgaming42]

That thread is so retarded. Bunch of manchilds whining that the game isnt exactly what they want it to be, ugh.

Wow, you read fast. Nearly 900 posts in 6 minutes? Bravo!

Excellent summary.

 

[HDgaming42]

It is when your criticisms really dont go any further than "this isnt baldurs gate so it sucks".

Yah, now I'm sure you didn't actually read that thread...

There are far better arguments put forward there than your simplistic summary implies. You may not agree with them, but simply discounting them and then asking why people are upset just makes you look...well...

 

[RedSwirl]

Shunya Yamashita is the best.

Well shit that explains it.

 

[Gvaz]

It is when your criticisms really dont go any further than "this isnt baldurs gate so it sucks".

Someone said that? Cause that's not what I got from that thread.

Sorry but you are falling into the same category the guy you quoted is speaking of. What is the "baby" that they threw out? The only thing i can possibly see people complaining about is the removal of the explorable planets. Seeing as how those were nothing more than jagged mountains with a different skin i cant say i miss them that much.

I'm not writing paragraphs explaining something other's have explained several times over but to summarize:

-rpg elements got dumbed down or outright removed
-exploration was completely removed instead of just fixing the mako

Those are the two main points I can remember. Other complaints can be:

-immersion was lessened by having mission select screens (where the fuck did that decision even come from?) and lack of things to explore
-story felt episodic rather than "epic". Instead of having a story that flowed from one point to the next, the whole game is "find this dude and recruit them". Then if you want you can do a mission to make them like you, but other than that the driving force like the first game had simply wasn't there. The reapers? Nothing happens. The Collectors? One fucking mission before the "endgame". What the fuck happened?
- can't modify squadmates armor (the obvious reasoning is because they don't have to work on armor that will fit the different body types, skeletons, etc. This shows as well in DA2. Bioware says it's for making characters more memorable, but clothes have nothing to do with a character being memorable. It has everything to do with establishing the character either with or beside the player, which barely ever happens and when it is, it's not executed well.)

The complaints were:
- "all these garbage loots you get and the best items are the master gears you unlock at 1mil creds, having to sort through them is a pain"
> Standardizes classes and only have a small selection of guns to choose from and you aren't allowed to modify
- "man the mako is such a pain to control!"
> removes the mako and all exploration, tries to fit it back in with the hammerhead but misses the point entirely making the effort half assed

 

[Typographenia]

It is when your criticisms really dont go any further than "this isnt baldurs gate so it sucks".

The only BioWare games I've played are ME1 and ME2, and I was disappointed with the direction ME2 went in. What does that make me?!



The more attention and focus towards making vanguard awesome is just what the doctor ordered. I really enjoyed the way it was geared in ME2, and fine tuning it would make me happy.

I'll never be even close to as good as those people that make the videos are, but I still like to pretend that's how my squad sees me performing when I play. That's why everyone on my ship likes me. Yeah...

 

[HDgaming42]

I'm not writing paragraphs explaining something other's have explained several times over but to summarize <snip>

I made the mistake of interpreting "Whats the unexplained hate for?" as a genuine request to actually, you know, explain "the hate".

What the statement apparently meant was "I have decided that ME3 is going to be 10X awesome, and if you can't see that you are a retarded whining manchild."

Cautious optimism, logic or reason are not welcome visitors in the house of "it will be awesome".

IT. WILL. BE. AWESOME.

 

[Kitschkraft]

So I'm late but I just saw the statue.

I actually don't mind the boobs, that's par for the course at this point, but the face is annoying as all hell. Would never buy that thing as is.

 

[MuddyDonut]

That is a nice bust, oh and the Liara statue is ok too

 

[Kinyou]

So I'm late but I just saw the statue.

I actually don't mind the boobs, that's par for the course at this point, but the face is annoying as all hell. Would never buy that thing as is.

Yeah she has the face of 2 year old baby. How could they think that anyone would ever like tha-

...oh.

Spoiler

just kidding

 

[HDgaming42]

So I'm late but I just saw the statue.

I actually don't mind the boobs, that's par for the course at this point, but the face is annoying as all hell. Would never buy that thing as is.

Avatar baby Liara is OK because her tits are smaller? No wait--you said you liked the new tits so...

yah, you lost me.

 

[Replicant]

No its not useless. You are just using it wrong. You shouldnt charge in the middle of a group, you should play it more tactically and take out the sides.

That'd only work in large areas and multiple of enemies are not in front of you. If they are, even if you attack from side, others will notice you fast and shooters from high ground will shoot you at any opportunity. And on Insanity, forget about it!

 

[Mindlog]

> Standardizes classes and only have a small selection of guns to choose from and you aren't allowed to modify

Still as ridiculous now as it was then. The classes are far more differentiated and the weapons can actually be distinguished from one another.

Let's focus on Mass Effect 3. The weapons can be customized. I hope they don't bring back the idiotic 10 levels for the same item to satisfy loot-mongers. Loot 'management' is an archaic holdover that gets wrongfully labeled as depth.

I hope they limit weapon lockers and workbenches mid-level. It's another immersion killer to suddenly have access to all of your weapons right before an encounter.


Most of the other classes can either stay in cover or have reliable aggro breakers and shield/health regen. The Vanguard's regen requires it to leave cover and attack. Thankfully Bioware made at least one class somewhat difficult to master.

 

[Calisto Glory]

That'd only work in large areas and multiple of enemies are not in front of you. If they are, even if you attack from side, others will notice you fast and shooters from high ground will shoot you at any opportunity. And on Insanity, forget about it!

Never had the problems when i played it on the gamescom. You still have your teammates which can take care of two of the bad guys around you and the rest is kinda easy.

 

[Wallach]

That'd only work in large areas and multiple of enemies are not in front of you. If they are, even if you attack from side, others will notice you fast and shooters from high ground will shoot you at any opportunity. And on Insanity, forget about it!

The video I linked before is on Insanity. As are like a million other videos on YT because Vanguard is one of the most popular classes to use on Insanity. It's not that complicated.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Have they fixed Shepard's teeth?

 

[MechaX]

That'd only work in large areas and multiple of enemies are not in front of you. If they are, even if you attack from side, others will notice you fast and shooters from high ground will shoot you at any opportunity. And on Insanity, forget about it!

Charge on Insanity is pretty effective still, provided that you don't charge clear in the middle of a pack of enemies. Plus, charge + shotgun + melee pretty much takes care of 90% of the enemies in the game, and the 100% shield recharge ensures that you can get behind cover fast enough to wait for the cooldown.

What isn't all that viable is probably Adept Insanity. Singularity shenanigans are fun and all, but still pretty slow in taking out basic enemies. And Horizon is a nightmare for Adepts on insanity.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Avatar baby Liara is OK because her tits are smaller? No wait--you said you liked the new tits so...

yah, you lost me.

LOL, it was a good avatar quote by kinyou, but it's from a webcomic and it makes sense that it's stylized in that way. I mean, I don't really feel theres a comparison, and I wouldn't want a statue version of my avatar either.

And I don't necessarily "like" the new tits, I would just be willing to put up with them, if the face was at least the same. They have changed her dimensions before in the comic I think, but the character is at least still recognizable. That thing looks like a random Asari.

I wouldn't mind a nice quarian figurine, something solid with a glass helmet and everything. The Bioshock Big Daddy figure is still the best collections set gift thing I've bought this gen, that thing is fucking solid.

 

[Gvaz]

Let's focus on Mass Effect 3. The weapons can be customized. I hope they don't bring back the idiotic 10 levels for the same item to satisfy loot-mongers. Loot 'management' is an archaic holdover that gets wrongfully labeled as depth.

It doesn't add depth it adds choice. What choice is there in most of the guns when the newer ones are clear upgrades (sans the laser sight pistol but that's not really a necessity)?

 

[Wallach]

It doesn't add depth it adds choice. What choice is there in most of the guns when the newer ones are clear upgrades (sans the laser sight pistol but that's not really a necessity)?

That's pretty much what he's saying; that problem was much worse in the first game because almost all weapons in each category were the same, just either worse or better than the last one you picked up depending on what "level" it was. All of the choice and depth came from modifying the weapon with unique upgrades and ammo.

 

[Mindlog]

It doesn't add depth it adds choice. What choice is there in most of the guns when the newer ones are clear upgrades (sans the laser sight pistol but that's not really a necessity)?

We agree! There was no choice with ME1 weaponry. It was simply sorting through green bars until, Spectre. Thanks to a smaller roster of differentiated weapons there are actual choices to be made in Mass Effect 2.

Eviscerator (not as prone to OK, multishot) vs Krogun (1 shot, 1 kill, next target)
Tempest (shield killer and very effective pulsed) vs Locust (armor killer that's effective at a longer range)
Carnifax (massive damage) vs Predator (faster with more damage potential)
Plenty of assault rifles are useful and preferred for different reasons.
Just a few posts ago I noted that I enjoyed using the Viper over the Widow.

If Mass Effect 3 manages to stick with the meaningfully differentiated formula then the weapon modding will be loaded with gameplay choices.

 

[Complistic]

Nice to see bioware whoring liara out again. I'd be upset if I was a fan of the character. But I'm not so it's funny.

 

[Jarmel]

It doesn't add depth it adds choice. What choice is there in most of the guns when the newer ones are clear upgrades (sans the laser sight pistol but that's not really a necessity)?

Supposedly some of the 'upgrades' in ME3 are variable in that there isn't just clear upgrades. We'll see at launch though.

 

[HarryHengst]

That'd only work in large areas and multiple of enemies are not in front of you. If they are, even if you attack from side, others will notice you fast and shooters from high ground will shoot you at any opportunity. And on Insanity, forget about it!

I finished the game on Insanity with a Vanguard and i didnt die much more often than with the other classes (except Sentinel, but that is pretty much playing with godmode on). Its not that hard, you just have to rely a bit more on your teammates at times while waiting for a good opportunity to charge.

Vanguard is a well designed class because it rewards practice and taking the time to master your available skills instead of brute-forcing through the enemies like i was doing with the Soldier (which was also pretty cool because Adrenaline Rush + the mattock never got old). it also forces you to pick your team mates for the mission.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Vanguard is a well designed class because it rewards practice and taking the time to master your available skills instead of brute-forcing through the enemies like i was doing with the Soldier (which was also pretty cool because Adrenaline Rush + the mattock never got old). it also forces you to pick your team mates for the mission.

I dunno, ping-pong Charging through packs feels pretty brute force to me, though admittedly I've yet to do a Soldier playthrough in either game.

 

[Gvaz]

We agree! There was no choice with ME1 weaponry. It was simply sorting through green bars until, Spectre. Thanks to a smaller roster of differentiated weapons there are actual choices to be made in Mass Effect 2.

No, okay.

ME1 had the problem of each weapon was pretty much just rng loot and for the most part nothing was better than spectre gear.

ME2 "fixed" this by removing all that and only giving each class a few weapon choices, but each new weapon was arguably better than the previous one you obtained in either damage or rate of fire. Certain weapons I suppose are better at different usage, but not enough to justify just using the one with the best dps.

That's not what I wanted. I'd rather have the random guns back if you're going to limit me to like 10 slightly different guns over the course of a game. I want weapon mods too.

I want customization of me and squadmates other than just boringass stats of +5% damage. That's not interesting. What they did for shepard was alright, though it could have been a little better and apply it towards squadmates as well. If I want Garrus to wear a ugly yellow suit, damnit you'll wear that stupid thing because I the player said so.

I just realized that ME2 would have been 100000000000 times better had you recruited all of them at once or something along those lines, then gone around the galaxy liberating planets from the collectors while slowly learning they had something terrible past the omega relay. Each planet you capture gives Cerberus support and funding and resources (fuck that awful minigame) and would flow into why you're fighting Cerberus better than the current path it seems to have taken.

 

[HarryHengst]

I dunno, ping-pong Charging through packs feels pretty brute force to me, though admittedly I've yet to do a Soldier playthrough in either game.

Well, yeah, in the end you kill everything, thats true. But Vanguard forces you to think a bit more about who to target, where cover is etc. While with soldier i could rush forward, find the cover closest to the enemies and just start firing away on whatever was in front of me without much consideration of what to target first. Which was also a cool experience, but its a different way of playing the same game.

Anyway,my point is that Vanguard owns and with ME3 giving it more melee options it will own even more.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Have the customization options been expanded? Shepard isnt in the military anymore! I want cooler haircuts and beard options dammit!

The options where practically identical between the first two games which strikes me as a weird place to be 'lazy'

 

[Kinyou]

Have the customization options been expanded? Shepard isnt in the military anymore! I want cooler haircuts and beard options dammit!

The options where practically identical between the first two games which strikes me as a weird place to be 'lazy'

I think it's pretty certain that the new hair options they showed during the femshep voting will make it into the game.

 

[Mindlog]

ME2 "fixed" this by removing all that and only giving each class a few weapon choices, but each new weapon was arguably better than the previous one you obtained in either damage or rate of fire.

Just a little shift in bolding to point out our disagreement. The raw DPS of the Widow is inferior to the effective DPS of the Viper. This is the same with shotguns, pistols and assault rifles. There are a variety of effective choices.

I don't want to sort through dozens of different versions of the same interchangeable weapon. It's useless busy work to me.

We agree on most of the other points.

I do want my party members to have armor like, Sheppard's. I do want mods. The system they have in place for ME3 sounds great. I wish they weren't distributed as loot though. I'm largely done with field loot. It's a stupid system. A stupid stupid stupid system. ME3 will undoubtedly have us earning credits for no good goddamned reason. The Reapers are here. I am, Commander Sheppard. Can I do a quest for you to earn some cash? Can I waste my time screwing around the battlefield looking for loot? Sure, you can improve your rifle. 20,000 spacebucks please.

Space Jesus needs to knock over all the kiosks off their stupid space tables. "Enough! Give me the mods or I'll feed you to the Reapers." That's the kind of looting I can get behind.

Alternative solution: EDI. The ship is some massive intelligence with minifacturing capabilities. Let us use EDI to search for 'optimal weapon configurations.' Loot can be just as easily distributed over time using a research system.

 

[Nirolak]

They're trying to fix the eyes:

 

[Gvaz]

I sure hope that'll fix the "shepard stares into distance while making an angry face"