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[koam]

When did they first start making the game?

It was originally in development for the PlayStation as a 5-disc action-RPG. It was shown at E3 1999.

It's started off on the PS1, then was moved to the Gamecube (was it on n64 too?), then to the 360. I think this is the first time a game has been in development as an exclusive title for all three major competitors at some point in its lifespan.

 

[Geoff9920]

It's started off on the PS1, then was moved to the Gamecube (was it on n64 too?), then to the 360. I think this is the first time a game has been in development as an exclusive title for all three major competitors at some point in its lifespan.

But many people make the mistake of thinking it's been in development that entire time.

 

[PleoMax]

Best post of the thread... No offense to all the art-fruits but games should be mostly about FUN, not trying to deliver an emotionally gripping experience about the human condition that touches the soul, or whatever bullshit... nearly every single game that attempted to do this has come off as pretentious wank (remember MGS2, widely considered the low point of that particular series?). Focus on creating an engrossing, fairly original gameplay experience first, THEN worry about the plotline.

I'm sorry but i don't agree with this.

Great and original gameplay experiences can come after a world, characters, and plot are built.

See i don't mind games to focus on pure fun, like the Tetris of the next gen. Crackdown, Wii sports, etc Games that rely on pure instant fun. They're cool, but i also like the other games...the MGSs, The kotors and Mass effects, etc

See, we don't have to narrow down the industry to 1 kind of game, the Toy game, i want my games to also make me relate to the characters, make me care about the world, to make me think about the plot and pay attention to what's happening. To be like interactive movies or books.

And cmon...wtf is going on man, this board is nuts about MGS...and we know what MGS is all about, and if 2 and 3 are anything to go by, it ain't about the gameplay.

To the guys at SK, do your thing man, you are making a game for a gamer userbase that likes them big cinematic games, this ain't the Wii.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

The people that found that post inflammatory really should take a step back and look at themselves.

Inflammatory? No. Pompus bullshit? Yes.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Inflammatory? No. Pompus bullshit? Yes.

It was satire, imho. He was discussing it at a "level" that Dyack introduced. It is funny you find it the wisdom of the ages coming from Dyack and pompous bullshit coming from Salazar.

blinders?

 

[Screenboy]

remember this series is a trilogy so if you want to play the ending youre probably going to have to buy an xbox720 unless it gets the 'Zelda treatment'.


Waggle Human 3.

 

[DreamMachine]

anyone know when the EGM live podcast will be up, eager to hear it.

Oh and btw. why is it that everyone seems to have some gripe with silicon knights..

Wow at the hate. Denis may hype his game, but we can at least leave the critisims to his game and not his personal character, it seems like no other dev gets that kind of punishment here.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

It was satire, imho. He was discussing it at a "level" that Dyack introduced. It is funny you find it the wisdom of the ages coming from Dyack and pompous bullshit coming from Salazar.

blinders?

You're right on the money.
No seriously it's like on target, bulls-eye, boom, etc.

 

[Geoff9920]

anyone know when the EGM live podcast will be up, eager to hear it.

Oh and btw. why is it that everyone seems to have some gripe with silicon knights..

Wow at the hate. Denis may hype his game, but we can at least leave the critisims to his game and not his personal character, it seems like no other dev gets that kind of punishment here.

Strange GAF quirk, no real logical reason behind it.

 

[koam]

But many people make the mistake of thinking it's been in development that entire time.

So the gamecube and ps1 footage was what?

 

[Screenboy]

they were making Eternal Darkness before TV's were invented.

 

[Ark-AMN]

So the gamecube and ps1 footage was what?

Pre-rendered FMV's not running on an engine, at least for the Gamecube. The PS1 version was nearly complete but was canned when Nintendo made SK a second party (so had Nintendo not done that, Too Human would have been released long ago).

See, it's Nintendo's fault.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

It was satire, imho.

Satire? Like Salazaar's other hilariously obtuse posts around here I suppose? Take a look at this gem of his from the "How can one effectively say one game has 'better' graphics than another?" thread:

What I think I find objectionable about the attitude is that it seems like something from a moral philosophy article - as if the fundament, and not for a second forgotten motivation, of all human activity must be the conscience. I can't remember which philosopher it was (Oxbridge, twentieth century) but I was reading about a chap who insisted that you couldn't even call a judgement or decision 'moral' if you didn't commit there and then to the replication of your move in all future similar circumstances, and to the rightness or wrongness of others taking related decisions. It didn't seem to me like consistency could workably bear the weight and directing significance that this bloke was loading it with, and it doesn't seem to me like we should have to pick through, calibrate or laboriously buttress our opinions about graphics. Just look, play and rate.

I used to get annoyed when continental literary critics dismissed the criticism I liked as mere "evaluative chit-chat". That was daft - that's all it is, and all it needs to be. Ditto gaming. Consistency and confected theoretical 'reasonableness' of judgement are bogus. Reflex opinion ftw.

Seriously. WTF.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Seriously. WTF.

Through all the time I spent at Insertcredit I've never read a forum post as horrible as that one. Such mind-numbing pretentious bullshit it makes me wonder why I still like videogames.

Woo-Fu: Stop fishing btw.

 

[Kobold]

Seriously. WTF.

I read that and my eyes died. (seems like a smart dude hides in that pretentious nonsense, so why does he come here?)

 

[Woo-Fu]

Satire? Like Salazaar's other hilariously obtuse posts around here I suppose? Take a look at this gem of his from the "How can one effectively say one game has 'better' graphics than another?" thread:

Seriously. WTF.

That would seem pretty good proof of satire, though it does show that he isn't painting just Dyack with that particular brush.

I don't know what the big deal is. If a dev comes in here defensive and angry about people talking about his game, he needs to switch out his defensive and angry attitude for media. Link a video that shows progress in the area people are bitching about or something. If he can't do that(which would be understandable for any number of reasons), he pretty much needs to just STFU for his own peace of mind. The devs/reps who are good at it ignore the idiots while doing their best to answer the real questions posed by the rest of the herd.

Getting hot and bothered on a 'net forum doesn't do him or his game any good.

is this fishing, pepsiman?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

is this fishing, pepsiman?

Yep, I think you're just enjoying the attention now.

I believe Dennis has tons of videos he'll show you if you ask him nicely enough.

 

[Kobold]

Getting hot and bothered on a 'net forum doesn't do him or his game any good.

Right, also because it has nothing to do with his game. The game will come out either way, regardless if the developer is a jerk or a saint on a discussion forum.

You seem to be applying the double standard here. You are saying here people can slag of any random screenshot or videoclip, and then a developer has to only reply with media disproving the slaggings or be a saint and not be offended, while everything he might say on the forum is taken personally by every poster and their mother? He is not allowed to come in and apply his own slagging if he wishes so? *cough*doublestandard*cough*

A developer is just like you and me, got emotions and frustrations. But you gotta step out this bubble here and realize that that has nothing to do with their games what you think of it or not, or what you think the developer can or can't do on this forum to defend or talk about his game. And aren't we here to talk about the games? Not to debate the discretionary level of participation of posting developers to meet some illusionary standard?

The game will eventually come out, but his interaction on this forum will not sway him any significant amount of more or less sales or critical acclaim. Why? Because only you and a few hundred others are reading this and getting all hot and bothered about nothing.

You can hate away at any developer with all the anger you wish to pour into that bottomless cave. You will never get anything uselful out of that stupid senseless negativety. Noone will. So in that regard, your solution would be to just not let developers post here at all.

But give the game a fair chance to prove itself when it's out. Happy joy.

 

[Geoff9920]

So the gamecube and ps1 footage was what?

Pre-rendered FMV's not running on an engine, at least for the Gamecube. The PS1 version was nearly complete but was canned when Nintendo made SK a second party (so had Nintendo not done that, Too Human would have been released long ago).

See, it's Nintendo's fault.

Yup, that's my basic understanding of it.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I don't know what the big deal is. If a dev comes in here defensive and angry about people talking about his game, he needs to switch out his defensive and angry attitude for media.

I don't think you're familiar with the history between GAF and Denis.

 

[Chipopo]

I am sorry to see not much has changed here on the GAF. There should be no question as to why many developers do not post here. Thanks to those who were positive and made some logical comments.

To me the passing around these pictures/comments is like smashing the conch which alludes to many of the secondary themes in Lord of the Flies.

In time these comments will be bearers of fruit. Unfortunately for many here, they are going to be very bitter.

Holy shit, can we get back to how obnoxious THIS post is??

 

[Geoff9920]

Holy shit, can we get back to how obnoxious THIS post is??

Considering the BS he's put up with on previous threads here, I'd consider that a fairly civil response.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Right, also because it has nothing to do with his game. The game will come out either way, regardless if the developer is a jerk or a saint on a discussion forum.

You seem to be applying the double standard here. You are saying here people can slag of any random screenshot or videoclip, and then a developer has to only reply with media disproving the slaggings or be a saint and not be offended, while everything he might say on the forum is taken personally by every poster and their mother? He is not allowed to come in and apply his own slagging if he wishes so? *cough*doublestandard*cough*

It is a double-standard, no doubt, never said it wasn't. It is also just business. You're either the saint or you're not saying anything at all even remotely related to the game, those are the two viable paths. Just look at the rest of the people in the same position and how they behave. Pulling a Derek Smart just isn't the optimal approach.

As soon as you do something like that, it isn't about the game anymore, it is about the person. Too Human could be the best thing since sliced bread, but some people will focus on what he said in this thread pretty much forever.

 

[DreamMachine]

It is a double-standard, no doubt, never said it wasn't. It is also just business. You're either the saint or you're not saying anything at all even remotely related to the game, those are the two viable paths. Just look at the rest of the people in the same position and how they behave. Pulling a Derek Smart just isn't the optimal approach.

As soon as you do something like that, it isn't about the game anymore, it is about the person. Too Human could be the best thing since sliced bread, but some people will focus on what he said in this thread pretty much forever.

Wait, so your saying if say.. hideo said people who play my games are idiots.

you wouldn't play mgs 4 .. please..

what developers say has no bearing on the games I play.

 

[Kobold]

It is a double-standard, no doubt, never said it wasn't. It is also just business. You're either the saint or you're not saying anything at all even remotely related to the game, those are the two viable paths. Just look at the rest of the people in the same position and how they behave. Pulling a Derek Smart just isn't the optimal approach.

You will have to consider the amount of slagging. How would anyone react under such uncalled for offensive characterization of his or her persona. Trust me, this didn't start because Denis Dyack called GAF something profoundly intelectually challenged or because of a bad screenshot. This started off as an at first playful personal attack against his (totally irrelevant to any game, or game development cycle of course) physical state and from there evolved into some random secular oral violence surrounding anything he has ever lain a breath upon.

Anyways, for example CliffyB is a likeable guy, but he's never been called the worst on this forum. Thing is, negativety breeds negativety. Those who sow, must be prepared to be reaped.

Plus, guessing Denis Dyack is a pretty smart guy, he probably wouldn't come here if this wasn't somehow comic relief to him, I bet. GAF's available pools of ignorance, bigotry and random angst have a certain charm and alure that certainly amuses me, at least.

 

[RobotChant]

Pre-rendered FMV's not running on an engine, at least for the Gamecube. The PS1 version was nearly complete but was canned when Nintendo made SK a second party (so had Nintendo not done that, Too Human would have been released long ago).

See, it's Nintendo's fault.

ED on the GameCube was using a modified Too Human engine, so they were definitely working on it during their tendo days.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Very interesting how people on here seem to dismiss that guys posts as pretentious, while getting irate because people state Too Human sounds pretentious. Seems to be an intellectual vacuum around here...Im sure the guys IQ will be lowered to around the requisite level the longer he hangs around here. Keep on doing your thing peeps.

OT: Substance needs to be revealed for this game. People are as hyped for this as Mass Effect? That game looks really great from what they have shown...theyve revealed some of the goods, and the impressions have been consistently excellent. Im glad the devs seem passionate and confident of their product, but they need to show something.

peace

 

[Chipopo]

Considering the BS he's put up with on previous threads here, I'd consider that a fairly civil response.

Of course, he could also not post here at all, as he has opted to do for the past 5 years or so. I think I would much prefer that to an insult that requires a secondary website unraveling the symbolism of Lord of the Flies lol). A question for Dyack: If your posts require a bibliography while addressing the SHOOP-DE-WHOOP, I Are Ceiling Cat audience...at what point does self-consciousness kick in?

This obviously takes some inference on my part, but Dyack just strikes me as someone never willing to let go of his Ivory Tower dreams to match the reality of the industry he works in. None of his work will ever be peer-reviewed. You will never find "Dyack" on JSTOR. As it stands he's a well-intentioned PR man for a videogame firm, but he's also a ****ing CON ARTIST...parting saps with their money towards games that have no conference with the lofty clouds he puts them on. He's done it twice now. At least Molyneux has the clarity to match his fantasies with actual game design.

Dyack will always catch slack until he stops overselling himself.

edit: or actually lives up to his claims. My bets on neither coming true.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Very interesting how people on here seem to dismiss that guys posts as pretentious, while getting irate because people state Too Human sounds pretentious. Seems to be an intellectual vacuum around here...Im sure the guys IQ will be lowered to around the requisite level the longer he hangs around here. Keep on doing your thing peeps.

I couldn't do it without you good buddy!

peace

 

[djtiesto]

Why single out MGS 2? It's not like MGS/MGS 3 had any less story.

Personally, I think Bioware is a great example of a company that proves you can put story as a major priority and still make excellent games. Besides, things would be boring if everyone took the same approach to game design.

Well, MGS2 is the game that mostly gets shat on for its abundance of cutscenes and absolutely absurd wannabe pomo storyline. Lots of people were turned off by that. 3 toned down the amount of cutscenes and increased the amount/depth of gameplay, as a result to the reaction to 2.

I like story-based games, hell I still think RPGs from the 16-32 bit era are the golden age of video games, and I enjoy their stories a whole lot (heckuva lot more than most modern day games). But those games had good gameplay, too... best of both worlds. When devs become more focused on storytelling over gameplay (look at the Xenosaga series...), that's where the problem arises.

 

[Ark-AMN]

Considering the BS he's put up with on previous threads here, I'd consider that a fairly civil response.

This obviously takes some inference on my part, but Dyack just strikes me as someone never willing to let go of his Ivory Tower dreams to match the reality of the industry he works in. None of his work will ever be peer-reviewed. You will never find "Dyack" on JSTOR. As it stands he's a well-intentioned PR man for a videogame firm, but he's also a ****ing CON ARTIST...parting saps with their money towards games that have no conference with the lofty clouds he puts them on. He's done it twice now. At least Molyneux has the clarity to match his fantasies with actual game design.

Dyack will always catch slack until he stops overselling himself.

As you can see, he's still having to put up with the BS.

 

[Reave]

I can't believe people actually think games with intricate storylines are a bad thing. I'm amazed. Sheesh.... "pretentious."

 

[Geoff9920]

Well, MGS2 is the game that mostly gets shat on for its abundance of cutscenes and absolutely absurd wannabe pomo storyline. Lots of people were turned off by that. 3 toned down the amount of cutscenes and increased the amount/depth of gameplay, as a result to the reaction to 2.

I like story-based games, hell I still think RPGs from the 16-32 bit era are the golden age of video games, and I enjoy their stories a whole lot (heckuva lot more than most modern day games). But those games had good gameplay, too... best of both worlds. When devs become more focused on storytelling over gameplay (look at the Xenosaga series...), that's where the problem arises.

So your beef isn't about games having a story. It's with games that focused so much on the story that the gameplay felt like an afterthought instead of having an equal balance of both. Correct? If that's the case, I think it's a bit early to be judging Too Human in that respect.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

MGS2 gets shat on often because of Raiden.

I still think it's the best game in the series(especially including Substance's extras).

 

[Chipopo]

So your beef isn't about games having a story. It's with games that focused so much on the story that the gameplay felt like an afterthought instead of having an equal balance of both. Correct? If that's the case, I think it's a bit early to be judging Too Human in that respect.

Still, Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes fit that bill pretty nicely...both of them feature half-baked game design mixed with excessive story-telling elements.

 

[Geoff9920]

Still, Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes fit that bill pretty nicely...both of them feature half-baked game design mixed with excessive story-telling elements.

That's a matter of preference. They're imperfect, yes, but I'd hardly call them half baked.

 

[Prine]

I have never trolled Too Human, and I have, in fact, been looking forward to it.

Until now.

Seeing a developer chastise GAF for being GAF is pretty pathetic. Everyone who visits an internet board should know what they are getting by now. Some of it is good, some of it is bad. Grow a thick skin or die.

Throwing in some pseudo-intellectual "analysis" comparing GAF to children in The Lord of the Flies is not only insulting, it isn't even particularly original. Perhaps that's the problem--you need a little more time trying to be like Miyamoto and Jaffe, and a little less time trying to be like Foucault and Lawrence.

Thanks for alienating someone who was looking forward to your game, Denis. Good job.

Cant stand posters like you, disrespectful on so many levels.

Someone who's worked with Kojima and Miyamoto goes out of his way to post in this forum, on one of the biggest games from MGS, and he gets nothing but shit.

Your all dickheads

 

[Pug]

Dickheads is an affray to people that really are Dickheads Prine, some of the posts on here are far beyond that.

 

[farnham]

eternal darkness 2 and rogue squadron 4 not on wii makes me soo sad


still anticipating Too Human


and EGM live on the too human update!

 

[Prine]

Its so frustrating seeing devs leave because of idiots that purposely go out of their way to start trouble. I would never run into a thread and talk shit to a developer. Espeically one as highly ranked as Dennis Dyack.

And thats why they're dickheads, spoiling it for the rest of us, who want to know about thier games

 

[nightez]

It's started off on the PS1, then was moved to the Gamecube (was it on n64 too?), then to the 360. I think this is the first time a game has been in development as an exclusive title for all three major competitors at some point in its lifespan.

:lol :lol :lol very true never ending game development.

 

[nightez]

eternal darkness 2 and rogue squadron 4 not on wii makes me soo sad


still anticipating Too Human


and EGM live on the too human update!

Nintendo owns the Eternal Darkness trademark

 

[Pug]

Thing is 99% of the posters on here prine including journalists have no idea (even if they think they do) what goes on regarding the process of making a game. Yet we have posters on here who critique the game on gameplay mechanics and god knows what else on a game nobody has played. Che made a great point in one of the Forza videos where he mentioned that he quickly realised that he knew shit about development even though as a Journo he thought he did. Here we have a top notch developer trying give us information regarding a game and next up we get some of the most ridiculous post I have read in long time making sure he posts elsewhere in the future.

 

[Geoff9920]

:lol :lol :lol very true never ending game development.

Ugh, how ****ing stupid are you? This has been addressed many times, on this very page even.

 

[nightez]

Ugh, how ****ing stupid are you? This has been addressed many times, on this very page even.

Ha ha look who's bloody stupid c*nt

FACT: Too Human Started development on the PSX
Game play and Engine changes as the title changed platforms but still the same game - Too Human

 

[3rdman]

Ha ha look who's bloody stupid c4nt

FACT: Too Human Started development on the PSX
Game play and Engine changes as the title changed platforms but still the same game - Too Human

I haven't read this thread...quite frankly I'm too good for this thread...but, in any case, my understanding is that the original concept (artwork, design, story) began during the PS1 era...but that has nothing to do with development. I believe that began as a GC title, but not sure. However, you seem to know everything so I'll leave this wonderful thread in your hands where it belongs.

 

[PleoMax]

Ha ha look who's bloody stupid c4nt

FACT: Too Human Started development on the PSX
Game play and Engine changes as the title changed platforms but still the same game - Too Human

The game never entered full production on the GC. But anyway, in the end, wtf is your problem? Are you jealous or something? Are you bitter?

Do you feel any sort of pain?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Seriously I feel like crying in a corner until all of the bad people go away.

 

[nightez]

The game never entered full production on the GC. But anyway, in the end, wtf is your problem? Are you jealous or something? Are you bitter?

Do you feel any sort of pain?

Right... when did I say it did enter full production?
Besides the game was on most GCN releases lists thats a FACT. And not that i'm saying it entered Full Production.

Whats your problem? When did I ever imply being bitter?

 

[Y2Kev]

Seriously I feel like crying in a corner until all of the bad people go away.

:lol