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[Jake Tower]

Not everyone has the same taste as you, nor do they necessarily have the same backlog/history of titles played.

Choice is good, there is no downside.

Then why are you for restricting my choice in how to dispose of my property?

 

[unbias]

Agreed. But they're betting, in a way, that the only real liquidity that exits the market belongs to GameStop's used market anyways. GameStop has come out and said 70% of trade in credit goes to new game purchases. However, price sensitivity on new games purchases is quite low (meaning that people aren't making games purchase decisions with price being a primary factor. IP, quality, word of mouth, genre, etc all are more important purchase drivers than price to the average consumer) and it looks like they want to test out that 70% number to see if it's true.

To be fair, we don't know what policies will be in place. Perhaps nothing changes for the end consumer on the trade in, perhaps GameStop just kicks a couple bucks back to the pubs. Who knows. Perhaps it'll be far worse. We don't know yet.

In the bigger picture, what is really scary is how many young people (who have little disposable income and who do utilize trade ins to fund a majority of purchases) will decrease their frequency of purchase and will turn to other outlets (iOS, League of Legends, etc) for their gaming needs and never look back.

Training the younger generation of gamers to purchase fewer games is the more worrisome thing to me.

That would still reduce liquidity and disposable income on the consumer, unless you are implying gamestop would just take the hit. If they want to fix their problem, make it more advantageous to not go physical.

I don't think we have to worry about that. PC, Tablet, Phones, and indy is doing a better job at teaching people to expect variety. AAA is going to be an incredibly small fraction of the industry in the future, imo.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Not everyone has the same taste as you, nor do they necessarily have the same backlog/history of titles played.

Choice is good, there is no downside.

When choice gets whittled down, all that's going to remain are the huge mass-market titles that sell of their license or branding. That's the irony so many people crying out for the "death of the industry" seem to be missing.

If the shit hits the fan, the first thing to go will be the niche titles, genres that only gamers like. The casual and mass-market dinosaurs will lumber on for years purely on the strength of their branding.

Casual NFL and soccer fans will pick up Madden and Fifa year-in, year-out, regardless of whether they can sell it used or not. These franchises are as near bulletproof as anything in the media.

Personally, I couldn't give a flying fuck about either. But guess what, my taste doesn't really count for much because there are millions of people out there who are into their sport of choice, more than gaming.

My answer wasn't meant to just pertain to my taste. Most of the AAA games coming out are already becoming whittled down. There are too many clones. Just because there are a lot of games still coming out doesn't mean that most of them aren't already suffering from the same problems you listed. There are already too few niche titles. Sure a lot of games are coming out, but that doesn't mean those games are doing something original or interesting. Fuse is a AAA title. I don't think anyone wants Fuse. That's why it's probably going to bomb. I'd rather have a month where I get 4 vastly different AAA games from different genres then a month where I get 8 AAA titles where only two of them aren't trying to replicate something I already have and failing miserably at being better.

 

[TheD]

Frankly, not understanding that competition is the thing that keeps prices low on the PC and that with vendor only console digital store you will have no competition in the online space (and maybe no competition at all in time) Not having used sales has nothing to do with it and shows that TB is not as smart as he first appears.

Because the people who created the art are more morally justified to that money and support than you or GameStop will ever be.

I know the law and the first-sale doctrine; there is a difference between what is most right and what is lawful.

No, they do not have any moral rights to the money!

If I made a table or something I would not have a moral right to more money when someone sells it again, game publishers are no different.

 

[FStop7]

Yeah, fuck the people who make the games we're arguing about.

If they're on the wrong side of this, then yes: fuck them. It's business, not friendship. They're not your friends. They make a product and they want you to buy it. And if they support this fucked up model of killing game resale then they're embracing business that's bad for you, the customer. Simple as that.

 

[unbias]

My answer wasn't meant to just pertain to my taste. Most of the AAA games coming out are already becoming whittled down. There are too many clones. Just because there are a lot of games still coming out doesn't mean that most of them aren't already suffering from the same problems you listed. There are already too few niche titles. Sure a lot of games are coming out, but that doesn't mean those games are doing something original or interesting. Fuse is a AAA title. I don't think anyone wants Fuse. That's why it's probably going to bomb. I'd rather have a month where I get 4 vastly different AAA games from different genres then a month where I get 8 AAA titles where only two of them aren't trying to replicate something I already have and failing miserably at being better.

PC market still had good niche titles, and indy has some games that are more fun then AAA games and a lot of these are also available on the console space. Middleware will come back, but in a different way, imo.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

PC market still had good niche titles, and indy has some games that are more fun then AAA games and a lot of these are also available on the console space. Middleware will come back, but in a different way, imo.

I was actually just referencing the AAA market. The indies don't suffer from the same problems as the bigger studios, or at least not as often. Most of my favorite games this gen are independent/downloadable titles, and I'm building a PC at the moment for the specific purpose of checking out all of the weird titles that never come out for consoles.

 

[TheJerit]

what an insufferable c-unit he's become. glad to see most here have seen through his drivel.

 

[Clear]

Then why are you for restricting my choice in how to dispose of my property?

I'm not for restricting choice per se. I've specifically stated more than once that I'm not for the system MS has put forward because I think people should be able to trade games. It strikes me as heavy-handed, and honestly I think its too unwieldy to be globally implementable.

What I am against is retailers like Game and Gamestop's predatory practices in pushing used over new purely because it gives them a better margin. It short-sighted profiteering that while it benefits gamers in the short-term, in the long haul it has a damaging effect.

TB pretty much covers most of my reasoning in his spiel regarding how the limited revenue streams available to games publishers make what Game/stop are doing so harmful. I've been arguing this case (and taking the inevitable flak for it) on GAF for a long while now - its a related, but distinctly different thing to the recent shitstorm surrounding Xbone.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Because the people who created the art are more morally justified to that money and support than you or GameStop will ever be.

I know the law and the first-sale doctrine; there is a difference between what is most right and what is lawful.

To me, if you start from the position that capitalism is a valid system, then you can't argue that a manufacture is entitled to profit from subsequent sales. Goods need to be able to be freely exchanged by agents who each are acting in their own self intrest. Once I purchase a game disk, I am not morally bound to act in a publishers intrest. It is a complete perversion of the system.

I'm not for restricting choice per se. I've specifically stated more than once that I'm not for the system MS has put forward because I think people should be able to trade games. It strikes me as heavy-handed, and honestly I think its too unwieldy to be globally implementable.

What I am against is retailers like Game and Gamestop's predatory practices in pushing used over new purely because it gives them a better margin. It short-sighted profiteering that while it benefits gamers in the short-term, in the long haul it has a damaging effect.

TB pretty much covers most of my reasoning in his spiel regarding how the limited revenue streams available to games publishers make what Game/stop are doing so harmful. I've been arguing this case (and taking the inevitable flak for it) on GAF for a long while now - its a related, but distinctly different thing to the recent shitstorm surrounding Xbone.

Predatory practices? Who are the preying on? Consumers? They are giving consumers clear options. Publishers? Publishers work with Gamestop extremely closely on Pre Orders and DLC initiatives. They are under no obligation to deal with Gamestop and yet they choose to because they are obviously getting something of value from the relationship. I guarantee that a publisher would rather someone trade in a game for credit at Gamestop than sell the game privately on eBay, Craigslist, or at a garage sale. They are much more likely to convert a Gamest0p sale into a new game purchase.

 

[AppleSmack]

After watching the video I honestly completely agree with Total Biscuit. Fuck used games.

 

[Yagharek]

After watching the video I honestly completely agree with Total Biscuit. Fuck used games.

You were already arguing against them earlier this week. What changed?

 

[AppleSmack]

You were already arguing against them earlier this week. What changed?

I have found out about a lot of things I didn't realize before. Once you get past the mob mentality of "hate microsoft", I can perfectly see why they want to get rid of this system.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Agreed. But they're betting, in a way, that the only real liquidity that exits the market belongs to GameStop's used market anyways. GameStop has come out and said 70% of trade in credit goes to new game purchases. However, price sensitivity on new games purchases is quite low (meaning that people aren't making games purchase decisions with price being a primary factor. IP, quality, word of mouth, genre, etc all are more important purchase drivers than price to the average consumer) and it looks like they want to test out that 70% number to see if it's true.

To be fair, we don't know what policies will be in place. Perhaps nothing changes for the end consumer on the trade in, perhaps GameStop just kicks a couple bucks back to the pubs. Who knows. Perhaps it'll be far worse. We don't know yet.

In the bigger picture, what is really scary is how many young people (who have little disposable income and who do utilize trade ins to fund a majority of purchases) will decrease their frequency of purchase and will turn to other outlets (iOS, League of Legends, etc) for their gaming needs and never look back.

Training the younger generation of gamers to purchase fewer games is the more worrisome thing to me.

Wisdom. They act as if they're still the only game in town. They never were before, and they CERTAINLY ain't now.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Frankly, not understanding that competition is the thing that keeps prices low on the PC and that with vendor only console digital store you will have no competition in the online space (and maybe no competition at all in time) Not having used sales has nothing to do with it and shows that TB is not as smart as he first appears.

when you're not selling a physical product there is no scarcity* and no excess. publishers are responsible for most of the pricing differences. the retailers who are not steam need to take less of a cut to offer a cheaper price. and they operate on the good will of Steam because most people only want Steam codes to play on the best games platform/social network

most of the price differences are not the result of competition between stores. it's (i) competition between games (and other forms of entertainment). the opportunity cost of buying one game with limited discretionary income is such that another may not be bought; and (ii) staggered pricing. different people are willing to buy games at different price points


*there are limited numbers of codes/bandwidth that store fronts have but that's just temporary scarcity in activations/bandwidth

 

[Ace Harding]

I have found out about a lot of things I didn't realize before. Once you get past the mob mentality of "hate microsoft", I can perfectly see why they want to get rid of this system.

Care to share what those things are (sorry if I missed an earlier post)?

 

[AppleSmack]

Care to share what those things are (sorry if I missed an earlier post)?

It is all in the OP. Or you can just watch the video yourself. I bought dumb arguments like "how used cars don't hurt car industry" and garbage like that and actually thought it equivalently applies to games when there are much more things going on. Gaming is a very unique industry.

 

[Freshmaker]

No one is saying they will be willing to pay the full price of a game a month or two after release. Comparing it to a movie opening is ridiculous as a studio will receive money from Bluray sales, licensing deals, rentals, royalties and TV broadcasts down the line. Other than licensing deals, what does a video game publisher receive?

Digital sales, DLC, sound track sales, merchandise... Yep those poor publishers have nothing.

 

[DarkFlow]

I'm going to give you all some information I have been holding on to for a very long time. I have said in previous posts that I worked for Electronics Boutique a fairly long time ago as an Assistant Buyer. I was there from the beginning of the PS2 generation to the transition to the Xbox 360 just before Gamestop took over. I went back into all of my remnants(old papers and price books) from my time there and found a lot of notes regarding the Used games business. I'm not going to tell you that these types of practices are still in use today, but I am confident in saying, many of these things have led up to the point we are at.

First, some quick info regarding store profitability at EB. Store managers were given profitability plans, which their bonuses were based on. Their P&L's were what they based their selling policies on. Let me explain.
To remain profitable, most stores had to be around a 35% margin. This was very difficult to do as full priced new releases were 20%. Consoles were 1%-3%. When I was there, this amounted to 50-60% of gross company sales. No way would that bring anyone into profitability.
Used games, and to a smaller extent, guide books and 3rd party accessories claimed most of the balance of sales. My numbers showed that used games alone accounted for about 25-35% of gross sales, but at a margin of over 51%
To put this into perspective with 100 million in sales. New games and consoles would account for $60 million in sales making approx 8-10 million in profit(if you account for the fact that is a mixture of new games and consoles) Used games would account for 30 million in sales and about 15 million in profit.
Yes, half the sales, double the profit. Managers were told this repeatedly and told that the only way to make your plan was push pre-owned sales.
Ok, this you all should know and understand.
The other side of things were happening at the corporate offices. We had a "buyer" for managing used games sales and that is all. They were responsible for making sure the business maintained the margins I just told you about. What were their responsibilities?
1. Make sure the avg cost was at least half of the retail value of the preowned games.
2. If the margins were too small, lower the buyback cost to get the avg cost down to that level as quickly as possible to make that profit back.
3. Sell lower margin preowned games "sideways"(to liquidators or distributors to 3rd world countries for a quick profit at higher margins than in the store)

This is where things got a little more interesting. There were times where I was witness to a few things that were perhaps a little more shady.
Video game publishers gave us money(credits off of future invoices or DFI) based on a few things. Advertising dollars(1-3% of ordered goods), defective goods(.5-1% of ordered goods), and price protections(done on a case to case basis to bring down the cost of the item, so the retail can still be at the full margin of the new title).
There were many instances where they would give us money for advertising their products in our catalog and shelf space in the front of the store and we would take that money and use it to bring the avg costs down for their preowned games, while still honoring the advertising commitments. On our end, we would log them in as freebies.

I was there when two smaller publishers caught wind of this practice and threatened to cancel our purchase orders on all future titles. We paid them in free advertising and they kept their mouth shut.
I will tell you this practice continued for some time and it kept those margins in the Pre-owned business MASSIVE.
I cannot be positive about other companies, but I'm sure they have their own creative accounting going on.
This may seem as being a huge attack on the Gamestop model, and there is a lot more that I can tell you. I will be more than happy to answer any questions that I can.

I also want to say, that I do not necessarily agree with some of the practices that MS is supposedly implementing. However, I do recognize that some change is needed for this ecosystem to thrive. There needs to be a compromise between the Developers/Publishers/Retail/Consumer that makes the industry stronger and gives us the games and products we want for the foreseeable future.

Nothing in this wall of text is anything new or mind blowing. This is called doing business.

 

[dab0ne]

If there was a way to give Devs and Pubs a share of the used games sales that didn't fuck over their customers by forcing consoles to be basically locked down then please implement it. It is going to be interesting to see if SONY can use Gaikai in a way that will allow subscription based gaming and if they will make any money doing it that way.

 

[Ace Harding]

Frankly, not understanding that competition is the thing that keeps prices low on the PC and that with vendor only console digital store you will have no competition in the online space (and maybe no competition at all in time) Not having used sales has nothing to do with it and shows that TB is not as smart as he first appears.

Why would there be any less competition in the possible XBone game market than there is on Steam? Where have they indicated it would be a "vendor-only digital store?"

 

[unbias]

when you're not selling a physical product there is no scarcity* and no excess. publishers are responsible for most of the pricing differences. the retailers who are not steam need to take less of a cut to offer a cheaper price. and they operate on the good will of Steam because most people only want Steam codes to play on the best games platform/social network

most of the price differences are not the result of competition between stores. it's (i) competition between games (and other forms of entertainment). the opportunity cost of buying one game with limited discretionary income is such that another may not be bought; and (ii) staggered pricing. different people are willing to buy games at different price points


*there are limited numbers of codes/bandwidth that store fronts have but that's just temporary scarcity in activations/bandwidth

That doesn't even make sense. The physical copy IS a physical product and cost money do create and distribute, and that is the only version that is being sold as used. You are not making sense. If used games were higher demand then new versions, there would be a scarcity of that used physical version of the good, this isn't the case with used games(outside of games like Suikoden series or Ogre Battle where they stop printing the new good).

 

[Gestault]

Basically what I see there are industries that made used items work. If videogames can't exist with used games existing that's its fault, not ours.

...which would be exactly why many are attempting to change it to remedy a supposedly unsustainable issue?

 

[unbias]

Why would there be any less competition in the possible XBone game market than there is on Steam? Where have they indicated it would be a "vendor-only digital store?"

Are you being serious? Xbox is a console controlled by MS with no other option to turn to for DD. The PC market has a lot of different options for DD beyond Steam.

 

[quest]

Agreed. But they're betting, in a way, that the only real liquidity that exits the market belongs to GameStop's used market anyways. GameStop has come out and said 70% of trade in credit goes to new game purchases. However, price sensitivity on new games purchases is quite low (meaning that people aren't making games purchase decisions with price being a primary factor. IP, quality, word of mouth, genre, etc all are more important purchase drivers than price to the average consumer) and it looks like they want to test out that 70% number to see if it's true.

To be fair, we don't know what policies will be in place. Perhaps nothing changes for the end consumer on the trade in, perhaps GameStop just kicks a couple bucks back to the pubs. Who knows. Perhaps it'll be far worse. We don't know yet.

In the bigger picture, what is really scary is how many young people (who have little disposable income and who do utilize trade ins to fund a majority of purchases) will decrease their frequency of purchase and will turn to other outlets (iOS, League of Legends, etc) for their gaming needs and never look back.

Training the younger generation of gamers to purchase fewer games is the more worrisome thing to me.

At least someone else gets that point. This anti-used/trading/lending/renting games just pushes away future customers. It is already happening this would only speed it up by doubling the price of a game since there is no resale avlue.

 

[Shai-Tan]

That doesn't even make sense. The physical copy IS a physical product and cost money do create and distribute, and that is the only version that is being sold as used. You are not making sense. If used games were higher demand then new versions, there would be a scarcity of that used physical version of the good, this isn't the case with used games(outside of games like Suikoden series or Ogre Battle where they stop printing the new good).

we were talking about digital distribution

 

[Satchel]

Used CDs didn't hurt the music market.
Used DVDSs didn't hurt the movie market.
Used cars don't hurt the automobile market.
Used games don't hurt the game market.

Who the hell buys used CDs?
Who the hell buys used DVDs?
Yes they do
Yes they do

 

[AppleSmack]

Are you being serious? Xbox is a console controlled by MS with no other option to turn to for DD. The PC market has a lot of different options for DD beyond Steam.

Steam is a monopoly. The very thought of having to purchase an item on another service is usually the worst thing in the world for PC gamers.

 

[Amir0x]

Who the hell buys used CDs?
Who the hell buys used DVDs?

I have like half a shelf full of used DVDs and Blu-Rays.

 

[Ace Harding]

Are you being serious? Xbox is a console controlled by MS with no other option to turn to for DD. The PC market has a lot of different options for DD beyond Steam.

Did Microsoft say they would be the only one selling games for their console? That's the first I've heard of that. As far as I know, they aren't planning to be the only place to buy XBone games. You'll be able to buy the discs (and possibly codes) at retailers just like you can now. I don't know why you'd assume otherwise.

Also, PS4 will exist, and presumably a very large portion of its games will also be available on XBone. That is competition.

If Battlefield 4 is $60 on the XBone store and $50 for PS4, guess who is going to sell more games? Guess who is going to lower their price?

 

[Satchel]

I have like half a shelf full of used DVDs and Blu-Rays.

Then you are in a tiny minority. To the point where outside eBay, where the hell can you even buy them used in a store?

 

[The Jason]

Because the people who created the art are more morally justified to that money and support than you or GameStop will ever be.

So someone created art and decided to sell a copy, and then even after being compensated with money, the artist retains more of a right to the re-sale money than the person who compensated the artist in the first place? How much do we have to pay in order to own what they created?

By your logic, there is no amount of money which the consumer can pay in order to have true ownership of the purchase product.

 

[Clear]

Predatory practices? Who are the preying on? Consumers?

Actually yes they are, this is how they maintain their massive margins on resold games.
They don't buy and sell to do consumers a favour, they do it because its enormously profitable. And given that consumers are both the supplier and the recipient of the product...

Publishers? Publishers work with Gamestop extremely closely on Pre Orders and DLC initiatives. They are under no obligation to deal with Gamestop and yet they choose to because they are obviously getting something of value from the relationship. I guarantee that a publisher would rather someone trade in a game for credit at Gamestop than sell the game privately on eBay, Craigslist, or at a garage sale. They are much more likely to convert a Gamest0p sale into a new game purchase.

All wrong.

 

[AppleSmack]

Then you are in a tiny minority. To the point where outside eBay, where the hell can you even buy them used in a store?

Agreed. I have never had a store clerk try to give me a used movie when I bought a movie at the store.

 

[antitrop]

Then you are in a tiny minority. To the point where outside eBay, where the hell can you even buy them used in a store?

The Walgreens down the street has a fairly extensive selection. I buy them all the time, sometimes I'll just stop in and pick up a can of Monster and a pack of cigarettes and I'll grab a used DVD for $2 on an impulse.

 

[unbias]

Who the hell buys used CDs?
Who the hell buys used DVDs?
Yes they do
Yes they do

Bold - Do you not see why this actually works against your inference?

Underlined - Since when? Any poor country that puts tariffs on the used car industry struggles with that industry(Just look at Latin America).

 

[unbias]

Actually yes they are, this is how they maintain their massive margins on resold games.
They don't buy and sell to do consumers a favour, they do it because its enormously profitable. And given that consumers are both the supplier and the recipient of the product...



All wrong.

Bold - They do it because the demand for it is high. Beyond this, there is no evidence that the used market takes away from new game total sales. It doesn't even make sense, considering used games for any game is never scarce unless a company stops making copies, and you can always get your hand on almost any game you want used.

 

[quest]

It amazes me how dumb the console publishers really are. They are the only business people in the world who think to increase sales you effectively double the price of your product. Maybe I should not be amazed one of them spent 100 million on a fucking tomb raider game. I do feel bad for the younger gamers who will be forced to tablets/phones because of this greed. The industry crashed once it will do so again very shortly when they throw the baby out with the bath water by crushing used/trade/lending/renting games. Only this time there will be no Nintendo to revive it and the IOs/Android over lords will take over.

 

[staticneuron]

Doesn't matter, if enough consumers view it as a right, the market will treat it like a right, due to the cost of removing that "right". Or they wont and will end up contracting the AAA market(even more).

Because this falls in line with what happens during the initial purchase, the idea that you are putting forth is that those who purchase new in mind to sell used, or fall into the cycle. Are large enough or staunch enough to forgo the next generation and its games simply to prove a point.

I actually doubt that. And I am curious to see if this will come to fruition because even MS claimed you will have the ability to sell and trade games but the distinction seems to be making themselves a middleman instead of a B&M store.

 

[zoku88]

Then you are in a tiny minority. To the point where outside eBay, where the hell can you even buy them used in a store?

Tower Records?

The only reason why this isn't common anymore is because not very many people buy CDs period...

It's probably more common in places where CDs are still popular and where they still cost a ton (say, maybe Japan or something, where it costs like 30 bucks.)

 

[unbias]

Because this falls in line with what happens during the initial purchase, the idea that you are putting forth is that those who purchase new in mind to sell used, or fall into the cycle. Are large enough or staunch enough to forgo the next generation and its games simply to prove a point.

I actually doubt that. And I am curious to see if this will come to fruition because even MS claimed you will have the ability to sell and trade games but the distinction seems to be making themselves a middleman instead of a B&M store.

So you think everyone will just adjust? What you are insinuating is that the video game market is rescission proof. Also if MS becomes the middle man that means more cost, which means that goes back onto the consumer, which will result in less disposable income.

 

[electricpirate]

It strikes me that used games are more of a symptom of a dysfunctional market, than the dysfunction themselves. 60 dollar 5 hour romps, inability to capture dead weight, high barriers to entry, all on a medium that is entirely fungible. Used games, and piracy are the natural responses to this. All attempts to fight those without addressing the core rot will only make things worse.

It's interesting that he's playing a F2P game while he talks about it, as F2P is part of the solution. Either way, it's going to get uglier before it gets better.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Who the hell buys used DVDs?

I buy used Blu-Rays.

Then you are in a tiny minority. To the point where outside eBay, where the hell can you even buy them used in a store?

Hastings and Blockbuster Video are the two places I buy used Blu-Rays from regularly. They both sell previously viewed rental discs (Hastings also sells used copies). Savings can be outrageously good on used. At Blockbuster Memorial Day B1G1 free sale, I got Haywire and Lockout for $7 total, Total Recall (2012) and Cars 2 for $10 total, and Looper and Disney's Brave for $13 total. Hastings often has ridiculously cheap online sales, where you can buy quality movies for $3 or $4 shipped. Used Blu-Rays are great.

 

[Amir0x]

Then you are in a tiny minority. To the point where outside eBay, where the hell can you even buy them used in a store?

FYE sells used DVDs and Blu-Rays. And you can also sell them to the store as well. I made $160 selling used DVDs and Blu-Rays to them a few weeks back. They also have a website you can sell your used DVDs/Blu-Rays to, if you're so inclined.

Also, Blockbuster going out of business sale, selling used movies all over the damned place.

The point is: These 'rights' always never matter to people, until the day it does. Why give up a right you have for no appreciable turn just because this very second it doesn't impact you?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

1) Regardless on where you are on the issue of used game sales, it's annoying reading comments from people who basically haven't seen the video, but just post based on cliff notes. He addresses A LOT of the stuff mentioned here. It's kind of timid to just make a post saying "so basically he doesn't care about anyone but PC gamers???". That any many other things, he talked about within the first 5-10 minutes of the video.



2) I agree with the notion that Microsoft does not have a great track record of trust versus Steam. I find that this is the ultimate argument against Xbox One's way of block used games. Microsoft never has, had a lot of good will or company trust. Even from their liked brands, Microsoft Office, Xbox, and Windows Mobile 8, it's not good will.

I think, that if you are a gamer who truly is afraid of what Microsoft will do, stick to your guns and play on another platform, until they have proved themselves worthy of your trust. That is your consumer right. That and nothing else. You got the right to vote with your wallet, so say no. You shouldn't support a company you would not trust with their webcam, your credit card details and their it-tagged software. Steam, really is great... So far.


We've all seen how far Google has fallen in trust over a relatively short amount of time. Five years ago, people would have called you paranoid if you thought Google would leak their information to agencies and govenments and private companies to predict consumer behavior and map out humans to make them less predictable and ease up on what they can market to you effectively. Now we know it's true. And we know the story is darker. There is no good multi billion dollar companies.




3) Gamestop saying that their used game sales help the industry. Consider the source, and all their incentive and gains for them to keep doing it. Gamestop and GAME are not the only retailers selling games. It is highly probable that they are misleading what they are saying. I don't buy it.



4) Developer costs keep rising. It keeps going up from every generation. More visual quality demands bigger team. This has been the norm for over long time, and it will continue to do so.




5) The reality in this situation might be that it is (like so many other things) not a black and white issue. Some games benefit from word of mouth and used games. Others are probably hurt by it. Perhaps those games with low reply value or content. You could argue that no games should launch with little replay value though. But value is always based and measured against what else is there. So somebody will always lose. There will never be a situation where everything has inherently good value. It will always be measured and compared. That is human nature.




6) TotalBiscuit is a great commentator and he knows a lot of what he is talking about. I don't find him discarring, he has legions of people who wanted to hear his opinion, and he probably doesn't think he is more important than anyone else. If you've followed his channel you know he is just like that. He talks with a slightly snoobish accent and sometimes gets heated over the stupidity thrown against him. Like the used car argument. Or that he is in Microsofts pocket. Or a lobbyist for the republicans.

Agreeing with him has nothing to do with it. Disagreeing with him is great too. He himself says it. That he is not the bearer of truth or has the answers. Even the video is called devils advocate, named for speaking of the unpopular opinion and talking a different perspective on it.




7) Someone posted, "so basically fuck the retailers?". We all know that retailers in a lot of industry has faced problems for years. If you look at blockbuster, it had to happen. That was a massive global chain with many, many, many thousands of employees. Blockbuster was one of the most widely available chains in the world, and at a point more visible than Starbucks many places in the world.
It all died because of the digital era. That is just progress and evolution. It's not as simple as just "fuck the retailers".
I was not happy people lost their jobs, but I like services like Netflix. They seem like value to me, and I got more stuff than I can throw at it.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I have found out about a lot of things I didn't realize before. Once you get past the mob mentality of "hate microsoft", I can perfectly see why they want to get rid of this system.

It is obvious why a publicly traded company would attempt to maximize profit, yes. What isn't obvious is why it makes sense to support it as a consumer.

If the basic argument is "Getting rid of used games will make publishers more money." Then why stop with used games? I am sure there are all sorts of things we could do to increase publisher's revenues.

 

[Kingbrave]

Steam is a monopoly. The very thought of having to purchase an item on another service is usually the worst thing in the world for PC gamers.

So Amazon, Origin, GMG or GOG don't exist? You don't understand a monopoly then.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Video games are the only media industry where it feels retailers actively try to undermine the purchasing of first hand product.

 

[unbias]

4) Developer costs keep rising. It keeps going up from every generation. More visual quality demands bigger team. This has been the norm for over long time, and it will continue to do so.

This is their fault. The indy, iOS, Tablet, and other lower budget projects are growing exponentially.

 

[Clear]

Bold - They do it because the demand for it is high.

If the demand is high, why the immense margin? Why if I shop around can I actually buy big titles new, for less than the price Game charges for a week old used blockbuster?

Beyond this, there is no evidence that the used market takes away from new game total sales.

How much evidence do you need when they commonly sell functionally identical versions of the same experience at different price-points? Which one do you think is going to sell better when the one labelled "new" offers absolutely no advantage to the buyer?

They buy games back from their customers to sell them on at a profit, not because they look good on their shelves.

Explain to me why retail conglomerates are somehow more noble than publishing conglomerates; Pursuit of profit is an equal imperative for both, yet apparently to you one can do no wrong, yet the other is Mammon incarnate.

The indy, iOS, Tablet, and other lower budget projects are growing exponentially.

Yes they are, and every one of them uses digital not retail as its primary sales channel. Funny that.