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[Althane]

She'll increase cardio while still doing strength training. There are plenty of athletes in MMA who are both strong and have great cardio.

Yeah, I don't get that. I'm by no means a fitness guru, but cardio and muscle power by no means seem like a inverse relationship. It's only by ignoring one and training the other exclusively that you'd lose the one in the first place, right? (well, excluding minor gains, for example, muscle mass slightly decreasing cardio because, hey, you've got more mass to carry around if you haven't trained at that mass)

Having an advantage doesn't mean you can't lose. And an advantage doesn't have to be massive for whatever is giving the advantage to be banned. Obviously in Fox's case it's not as simple as when we're talking about Substances or Attire but Fox doesn't need to be lifting women over her head with one hand for her to have an advantage that is unfair for the other women in the division.

I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems like you should be able to divide these fights up into regions, such as:
1) Strength - Pure muscle strength, ability to exert force with your body
2) Energy - How long you can exert your strength, and how long you can keep yourself moving in a high energy situation
3) Determination - How much you really, really don't want to lose
4) Talent - Hey, there's some natural talent involved in all things
5) Skill - Training, training, training. And some more training. Just plain being familiar with your moves, how to execute them, and how to block your opponent's moves.

So there's probably a standard deviation that these athletes have within these regions.

What people are arguing is that Fox (I think that's her name? I'm pretty drunk right now, and sort of doing this on the fly) had an unfair advantage (i.e. her advantage was over the 'standard deviation' (I'm a programmer, I'm allowed to do mathy references)) compared to the other athletes in her league.

Just because her talent, skill, and determination may be on the low end, doesn't mean that she doesn't have an unfair advantage in one attribute.

And that's not even talking about the body development, etc, of being male for 30 years would do for you. I haven't done any research on that, and as far as I know, there's really not much to be bad in terms of such athletic competition.

 

[J_Lee]

someone needs to come up with some sort of chart or formula that shows the maximum advantage a genetically born female woman can potentially have without any cheating and just the natural luck of being the absolute pinnacle of natural born female genetics and then check any MtF Transwomen that wants to compete with women that same chart to see if they would be allowed. i mean, since it's all science fact and all, someone should just make a chart... solve the debate once and for all!

I think seeing Fox's maximum punch force would help, if her punch force is comparable to that of a male MMA fighter in her same weight class then she shouldn't be able to fight.

 

[railGUN]

I think seeing Fox's maximum punch force would help, if her punch force is comparable to that of a male MMA in her same weight class then she shouldn't be able to fight.

MMA isn't limited to punching - using that as a metric is stupid. There are jiu-jitsu guys who can't punch for shit but could rip your leg off before you can blink. I don't have a good metric to suggest, mind you.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Yeah, I don't get that. I'm by no means a fitness guru, but cardio and muscle power by no means seem like a inverse relationship. It's only by ignoring one and training the other exclusively that you'd lose the one in the first place, right? (well, excluding minor gains, for example, muscle mass slightly decreasing cardio because, hey, you've got more mass to carry around if you haven't trained at that mass)

I'm not an expert either but I would think that the more muscle you have the higher the demand on oxygen making one less oxygen efficient. So it's not wrong to say that an increase in one area would constitute a decrease in another. But Trainers have been doing this stuff for centuries so there's likely techniques and ratios that are applied that would maximize gains and minimize losses. From watching fights for years... it only seems to have a major effect in extreme cases (Super heavy Heavyweights and super light Bantamweights) and Fox doesn't appear to have an extremely large physique.

I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems like you should be able to divide these fights up into regions, such as:
1) Strength - Pure muscle strength, ability to exert force with your body
2) Energy - How long you can exert your strength, and how long you can keep yourself moving in a high energy situation
3) Determination - How much you really, really don't want to lose
4) Talent - Hey, there's some natural talent involved in all things
5) Skill - Training, training, training. And some more training. Just plain being familiar with your moves, how to execute them, and how to block your opponent's moves.

So there's probably a standard deviation that these athletes have within these regions.

What people are arguing is that Fox (I think that's her name? I'm pretty drunk right now, and sort of doing this on the fly) had an unfair advantage (i.e. her advantage was over the 'standard deviation' (I'm a programmer, I'm allowed to do mathy references)) compared to the other athletes in her league.

Just because her talent, skill, and determination may be on the low end, doesn't mean that she doesn't have an unfair advantage in one attribute.

And that's not even talking about the body development, etc, of being male for 30 years would do for you. I haven't done any research on that, and as far as I know, there's really not much to be bad in terms of such athletic competition.

All of those classifications would be nice but there's just no way to realistically do that for all of these fighters. Well, at least not in a way that isn't cost and time prohibitive. There's no unified body in charge of MMA, so no one would bother with even attempting something like that.

 

[RockTurtle]

MMA isn't limited to punching - using that as a metric is stupid. There are jiu-jitsu guys who can't punch for shit but could rip your leg off before you can blink. I don't have a good metric to suggest, mind you.

some metrics might not be even measurable.

 

[Agkel]

Basically you called a transwomen a man. To me you're nothing but another ignorant bigot in a sea of them and I have no interest to further any discussion with you. Your words, personally, hurt me.

Your points have also been made, dismissed and made again countless times in this thread already.

Don't take this as a personal attack, but reading your arguments on this thread, and especially this comment, you are doing a disservice to the trans community. I understand that perhaps your life has been far from rosey and that has made you more defensive than usual but there was no hate on his post and you would do better informing him of his error than doing what you are accusing many of doing (knee jerk) and bunching him with bigots.

Also you said you already made your mind on the topic and nothing you see or someone says will change your mind. I suggest you let the conversation go because all you are going to get out of this thread is a headache.

 

[Althane]

I'm not an expert either but I would think that the more muscle you have the higher the demand on oxygen making one less oxygen efficient. So it's not wrong to say that an increase in one area would constitute a decrease in another. But Trainers have been doing this stuff for centuries so there's likely techniques and ratios that are applied that would maximize gains and minimize losses. From watching fights for years... it only seems to have a major effect in extreme cases (Super heavy Heavyweights and super light Bantamweights) and Fox doesn't appear to have an extremely large physique.

Yeah, I guess. Admittedly, I'm not focusing on either extreme, and just trying to boost my gains little by little in both. So... *shrug*

For super weight lifters and the 'swole' crowd, I can see it being a problem, but the MMa people seem to be overall athletically fit.

All of those classifications would be nice but there's just no way to realistically do that for all of these fighters. Well, at least not in a way that isn't cost and time prohibitive. There's no unified body in charge of MMA, so no one would bother with even attempting something like that.

OH, yeah, no. That was purely from an amateur ranking thing I was positing. What people were using as their sort of metrics (which, like mesmerMAN says above, some metrics aren't really measurable. Determiniation, for example)

 

[J_Lee]

MMA isn't limited to punching - using that as a metric is stupid. There are jiu-jitsu guys who can't punch for shit but could rip your leg off before you can blink. I don't have a good metric to suggest, mind you.

All those forces can be measured, I am just saying I would like to see the force of Fox's punch. Have you ever seen Sports Science they have measured just about everything you can measure in just about every sport you can think of so in theory you could compare Fox to another fighter in just about any aspect.

Here the episode I'm talking about I think

 

[railGUN]

All those forces can be measured, I am just saying I would like to see the force of Fox's punch. Have you ever seen Sports Science they have measured just about everything you can measure in just about every sport you can think of so in theory you could compare Fox to another fighter in just about any aspect.

No, you can measure it, I get that.

The force difference between MMA athletes is where the problem lies, because some don't even punch, they wrestle, or submit.

 

[paile]

That's ugly. There is no hate in his posts. You do a disservice to the fight against real bigotry when you lump things like that into the same category.

Calling a transwoman a man is what is ugly and so are posts that attempt to play this down. A lot of people are hurt, myself included, when that is done.

At any rate I'm over it. I should know better than to participate in discussions about trans issues with the general public anyway.

 

[Althane]

Calling a transwoman a man is what is ugly and so are posts that attempt to play this down. A lot of people are hurt, myself included, when that is done.

As far as I've been able to tell from RobertSan's posts, the term 'man'/'male' was used to reference the past state of our topic, Fox.

Fox's current state has always been stated as female by RobertSan. RS has been quite respectful in this regard.

If you'd like to show a counterexample, feel free, but for now I think you're being overly sensitive in that regard.

 

[Fornaximus]

Calling a transwoman a man is what is ugly and so are posts that attempt to play this down. A lot of people are hurt, myself included, when that is done.

You need to consider intent before you go around calling everybody bigots because they don't know everything there is to know about the transgender political correctness handbook. He obviously didn't mean it as an insult. You can't expect the world to be as "enlightened" as you. You push people away who might otherwise totally support your cause when you attack them as bigots for simply not knowing the right words to use without offending.

 

[Fahrenheit]

The youtube video posted in the OP has in context the funniest comment on a youtube video ever.

Anyways, didn't the Olympics have some issues with female olympians not being genetically female?

To me it seems like Miss Fox shouldn't be aloud to fight other females but that's just me. I'm not sure what the sanctioning body of MMA was thinking to allow this but in any other sport she would be kicked out as soon as she was found out to be a man.

 

[Scrabble]

Calling a transwoman a man is what is ugly and so are posts that attempt to play this down. A lot of people are hurt, myself included, when that is done.

And your type of attitude is only going to give fuel for bigots to be even more hateful. I didn't see any ill-intent in his post, so why not go ahead and educate him that a transwoman is not a man, without being so hateful yourself.

 

[Agkel]

Calling a transwoman a man is what is ugly and so are posts that attempt to play this down. A lot of people are hurt, myself included, when that is done.

How do you combat ignorance? I really hope that your posts are not a reflection of how you behave in real life when you are confronted with ignorance about the trans world. I'm not downplaying that you are hurt when someone calls you anything other than what you want to be called, but you need to realize when there is malice behind what is been said and taking an opportunity to teach other people and remove them from ignorance.

And I say this as a minority who has been subjected to a lot of racism in his life.

 

[J_Lee]

Calling a transwoman a man is what is ugly and so are posts that attempt to play this down. A lot of people are hurt, myself included, when that is done.

At any rate I'm over it. I should know better than to participate in discussions about trans issues with the general public anyway.

I was called a girl from the age of 5 to about 12 and I still don't understand how this could be offensive and I am a male, to this day people still call me mame on the phone yet I don't get upset. If anything it should piss me off even more because I am a man.

 

[charsace]

Come on guys Fox went through puberty as a man and fully matured as a man. She is gonna have advantages. Girls can play physical sports with boys up until puberty when bodies start to change, and with it the chance that a boy could hurt a girl gets higher. If she had a decent skill level she would be unstoppable. She just walks 2 fights I've seen of hers so far and she just walks through her opponents stand up.

 

[paile]

And your type of attitude is only going to give fuel for bigots to be even more hateful. I didn't see any ill-intent in his post, so why not go ahead and educate him that a transwoman is not a man, without being so hateful yourself.

Yeah fine. My apologies to the poster in question.

I suppose if I had the patience of a saint I could correct him; as I have done plenty of times anyway. If the poster has made the comment earlier in the thread I possibly would have corrected him. But you know, perhaps the poor poster in question was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Perhaps I'm just over this shit all told.

I have spent an entire thread being on the defensive and I can't say I'm not sick and tired of it. My position was always a wait for the facts, wait for the science kind of position. The matter is inconclusive. Peer review research says it is inconclusive. We need more research and study, I would say it, over and over and it would sink in for no one.

But does that stop the know-it-alls from rocking into this thread with cries of 'unfair', 'she shouldn't compete' along with the implications that she's a man and that she carries an unfair advantage? They don't read the thread, they just rock up and spout their opinions from gut reaction. Yet I spend the time to try and explain where I'm coming from and as usual spend hours on something which is time I never intended to spend.

It is also not my job to combat bigotry or educate. I always said I have utterly no intention of being an advocate for trans rights, yet here I am, dragged into it again.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Dumb question, but in the OP's picture, which one is Fox and which one is the other fighter? On the one hand, I get where people are coming from about how they think she has an unfair advantage, but on the other hand it's not like all men are genetically born to be MMA fighters. Is it the fact that she was born as a man that has people up in arms? I mean, I'm pretty out of shape. I'm pretty sure most women could kick my ass. Does she look like Lou Ferrigno in the ring or something? To be fair, I googled a couple of images of her and she doesn't look like that photo in the original post. She looks like a Brock Lesner in a wig (okay maybe not that dramatic), but has she changed recently? I just think it's dumb that people think that men or transgender people have an automatic advantage over women judging from the photo in the OP.

 

[J_Lee]

Yeah fine. My apologies to the poster in question.

I suppose if I had the patience of a saint I could correct him; as I have done plenty of times anyway. If the poster has made the comment earlier in the thread I possibly would have corrected him. But you know, perhaps the poor poster in question was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Perhaps I'm just over this shit all told.

I have spent an entire thread being on the defensive and I can't say I'm not sick and tired of it. My position was always a wait for the facts, wait for the science kind of position. The matter is inconclusive. Peer review research says it is inconclusive. We need more research and study, I would say it, over and over and it would sink in for no one.

But does that stop the know-it-alls from rocking into this thread with cries of 'unfair', 'she shouldn't compete' along with the implications that she's a man and that she carries an unfair advantage? They don't read the thread, they just rock up and spout their opinions from gut reaction. Yet I spend the time to try and explain where I'm coming from and as usual spend hours on something which is time I never intended to spend.

It is also not my job to combat bigotry or educate. I always said I have utterly no intention of being an advocate for trans rights, yet here I am, dragged into it again.

No you want to proclaim everyone is a bigot if they don't agree with your views.

 

[paile]

No you want to proclaim everyone is a bigot if they don't agree with your views.

Yes put words in my mouth that I never said. As the spotlight is on me right now I don't anyone else is going to call you out for that one.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Yes put words in my mouth that I never said. As the spotlight is on me right now I don't anyone else is going to call you out for that one.

you said it's not your job to combat bigotry. doesn't that men anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot?

 

[J_Lee]

Yes put words in my mouth that I never said. As the spotlight is on me right now I don't anyone else is going to call you out for that one.

you said it's not your job to combat bigotry. doesn't that men anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot?

Thank you Boom Boom Pow

 

[paile]

you said it's not your job to combat bigotry. doesn't that men anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot?

Depends entirely on the context of their disagreement.

 

[PKrockin]

Yeah fine. My apologies to the poster in question.

I suppose if I had the patience of a saint I could correct him; as I have done plenty of times anyway. If the poster has made the comment earlier in the thread I possibly would have corrected him. But you know, perhaps the poor poster in question was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Perhaps I'm just over this shit all told.

I have spent an entire thread being on the defensive and I can't say I'm not sick and tired of it. My position was always a wait for the facts, wait for the science kind of position. The matter is inconclusive. Peer review research says it is inconclusive. We need more research and study, I would say it, over and over and it would sink in for no one.

But does that stop the know-it-alls from rocking into this thread with cries of 'unfair', 'she shouldn't compete' along with the implications that she's a man and that she carries an unfair advantage? They don't read the thread, they just rock up and spout their opinions from gut reaction. Yet I spend the time to try and explain where I'm coming from and as usual spend hours on something which is time I never intended to spend.

It is also not my job to combat bigotry or educate. I always said I have utterly no intention of being an advocate for trans rights, yet here I am, dragged into it again.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't your position to not wait for the research, let her compete until the research proves it to be a problem, whereas the people you were debating with more or less were the ones who said to wait for research to prove that it was safe and fair for her to compete?

 

[railGUN]

Depends entirely on the context of their disagreement.

No one has been a bigot I this thread, unless I've missed some blatant post.

 

[paile]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't your position to not wait for the research, let her compete until the research proves it to be a problem, whereas the people you were debating with more or less were the ones who said to wait for research to prove that it was safe and fair for her to compete?

My position was basically that she should be able to compete against those willing to compete against her.

If I'm defensive it is because many of my opponents did not want to consider this a debate. For them it was a clear cut case of 'she has the advantages of a man' and therefore should not compete. That was it.

No one has been a bigot I this thread, unless I've missed some blatant post.

Pimpwerx said some questionable things that were called out by other posters. Not much other than that.

 

[J_Lee]

No one has been a bigot I this thread, unless I've missed some blatant post.

paile has proclaimed many people bigots

 

[paile]

paile has proclaimed many people bigots

Have I?

Feel free to quote this range of example in which I have called people bigots.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Pimpwerx said some questionable things that were called out by other posters. Not much other than that.

Questionable to a couple posters who think they can bully others into submission by labeling them transphobic. Unfortunately for you, I understand the English language and don't wilt before words. What I said was factual and not bigoted. Question all you like, but you're not gonna scare a black man by claiming unfounded prejudice. I know hate speech better than you'll ever know, bud, so keep on peddling your shitty wares.

Back to lurking. PEACE.

 

[Scrabble]

Yeah fine. My apologies to the poster in question.

I suppose if I had the patience of a saint I could correct him; as I have done plenty of times anyway. If the poster has made the comment earlier in the thread I possibly would have corrected him. But you know, perhaps the poor poster in question was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. Perhaps I'm just over this shit all told.

I have spent an entire thread being on the defensive and I can't say I'm not sick and tired of it. My position was always a wait for the facts, wait for the science kind of position. The matter is inconclusive. Peer review research says it is inconclusive. We need more research and study, I would say it, over and over and it would sink in for no one.

But does that stop the know-it-alls from rocking into this thread with cries of 'unfair', 'she shouldn't compete' along with the implications that she's a man and that she carries an unfair advantage? They don't read the thread, they just rock up and spout their opinions from gut reaction. Yet I spend the time to try and explain where I'm coming from and as usual spend hours on something which is time I never intended to spend.

It is also not my job to combat bigotry or educate. I always said I have utterly no intention of being an advocate for trans rights, yet here I am, dragged into it again.

Sorry but since the beginning of this thread you've laid accusations of people being prejudice/bigots for simply disagreeing, I have little sympathy if you decide to act like you've been patient this whole time. And yes absolutely more research needs to be done, no one here will dispute that, but to discount real physical attributes on account "well more research needs to be done, so in the meantime it's totally okay to fight" seems very disingenuous. More research needs to be done on testosterone levels, bone densities, reaction time, etc. We don't need to conduct scientific research to conclude that men have bigger hands, broader shoulders, stronger jaws, etc. These things don't change for a transwoman, but you've continued time and time again to simply dismiss this as you see fit. Again, the fact that she kept it a secret is a much bigger issue in of its self that I feel isn't getting enough attention here.

 

[rocketknight]

To be fair, the robertsan21 post paile was replying to called Fox "he" after an entire thread of "she," the same as I've seen robertsan21 do in another thread or two over the past few months. The post is edited now but paile's response makes a lot more sense in context.

 

[paile]

I know hate speech better than you'll ever know, bud, so keep on peddling your shitty wares.

Isn't bud short for buddy and basically something you would not use when referring to a women?

Gotcha again. But I'm quite sure that was your intent.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Isn't bud short for buddy and basically something you would not use when referring to a women?

Gotcha again. But I'm quite sure that was your intent.

i use buddy for both males and females. but i say in his context, it's more of an annoyance usage and not a gender usage

 

[Pimpwerx]

Isn't bud short for buddy and basically something you would not use when referring to a women.

Gotcha again. But I'm quite sure that was your intent.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Everyone sees you for who you are now. Want me to screen grab a few dozen images from my Facebook where I call my best female friend "buddy"? You're overly-sensitive and have been from the very beginning. You have no interest in honest debate and have even stated as much. You're distorting common parlance to try to paint people who disagree with you in a negative light. If you ask, I will screencap and embarrass you further. Learn the language you've been posting in a bit better.

Don't make me have to de-lurk again, please. PEACE.

 

[paile]

Sorry but since the beginning of this thread you've laid accusations of people being prejudice/bigots for simply disagreeing

I called the view that preventing her from competing based on a gut reaction was prejudiced.

Low and behold, I am right -

The word prejudice refers to prejudgment: i.e. making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case.

Want me to screen grab a few dozen images from my Facebook

No. I don't have any pressing desire in seeing your Facebook.

 

[paile]

i use buddy for both males and females. but i say in his context, it's more of an annoyance usage and not a gender usage

So be it.

 

[Digital Joker]

Sorry but for me this breaks down to a castrated man hitting women.
No way "she" should be allowed to fight.

 

[railGUN]

Sorry but for me this breaks down to a castrated man hitting women.
No way "she" should be allowed to fight.

See, now why the fuck do you have to come along and say something so fucking stupid at this point... Fucking moron.

 

[Jest Chillin]

It's a sensitive topic, so it's understandable that emotions get pulled into it. The best thing for all involved is to take a step away from the thread for a bit. It would also help if everyone stopped trying to call each other out. I'm not a mod and I'm not pretending to be and obviously everyone is free to ignore me or call me an asshole for this post. I'd just like to see everyone cool off so things don't spin anymore out of hand and people don't end up catching bans. ;/

 

[Agkel]

Sorry but for me this breaks down to a castrated man hitting women.
No way "she" should be allowed to fight.

I'm sure you were patiently waiting until the waters were calming down to post this very, enlightened and important post, werent you?

 

[Scrabble]

I called the view that preventing her from competing based on a gut reaction was prejudiced.

Low and behold, I am right -

The word prejudice refers to prejudgment: i.e. making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case.

So then who are the people who also make a prejudgment that she should fight without also discerning the facts? Have there not been plenty of those people as well? Also aside from wikipedia links you've posted, where are facts that that there is no advantage for a transwoman? We've had plenty of expert opinions(who live and breath mma, I would think they'd know this topic more than us) and doctor studies claiming that yes, there is a distinct advantage. I'd say most in this thread are coming from a position of knowing these details.

Also I don't think we disagree as much. I too, like I said before, agree that a ciswoman has every right to challenge a transwoman as long as she is made aware of the fact, which is something Fox did not disclose before getting caught. It still however creates an uneven playing field where you can't expect ciswomen to choose not to fight for money, as well as being incredibly dangerous. The fact that a fighter of her skill was still able to manhandle every opponent she's faced is a scary thing.

 

[Fahrenheit]

I couldn't tell which one used to be the man till I googled.

Spoiler

Would still have sex with them both

Anyways Fallon Fox lost so any advantages she may have had due to having a dick at one point in her life apparently didn't keep her from getting knocked the fuck out

 

[Amalthea]

Sorry but for me this breaks down to a castrated man hitting women.
No way "she" should be allowed to fight.

I hope it was worth the account activation wait.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I couldn't tell which one used to be the man till I googled.

Spoiler

Would still have sex with them both

Anyways Fallon Fox lost so any advantages she may have had due to having a dick at one point in her life apparently didn't keep her from getting knocked the fuck out

She didn't get knocked out. Ref stopped the fight because she wasn't defending herself which appeared to be because she was tired.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Calling a transwoman a man is what is ugly and so are posts that attempt to play this down. A lot of people are hurt, myself included, when that is done.

At any rate I'm over it. I should know better than to participate in discussions about trans issues with the general public anyway.

Maybe cut some people some slack though? Damn, sorry, that sounds ignorant. Sorry. For a lot of people trans issues are new. In the context of this thread there might be relevant discussion about whether they think a trans person should be allowed to fight another woman. I mean, personally, I don't think she looks that different from the person she was up against (she actually looks kind of hot to me) and I don't think natural born women are at a disadvantage because Fox was born a man.

I mean, I'm pretty open minded. In fact, the only time I've talked to trans people is on GAF. Where I live there's a, how do I say this, uhmm, a cis? is that the correct term? I just want to make sure. Anyway there's a trans person that works for us. He/she (sorry I don't know the correct term) works in another department. The other day I'm smoking a cigarette outside the office building and this guy asks me do you work with "Scary Larry?". I didn't know who the fuck he was talking about, until I realized she's like the only trans (openly trans person) in town. I kind of threw up in my mouth when he called her Scary Larry. I guess what I'm trying to say is that not everyone is exposed to trans people or live in big cities that are respectful of other people. Hell, where I live people still hate gay people.

Ehhhh, sorry. I'm not trying to downplay your thoughts or you as a person. I think it's sometimes people get defensive when they are challenged about their beliefs or something. If it's worth anything, I'd consider you a friend even though I don't know you.

 

[Scrabble]

I couldn't tell which one used to be the man till I googled.

Spoiler

Would still have sex with them both

Anyways Fallon Fox lost so any advantages she may have had due to having a dick at one point in her life apparently didn't keep her from getting knocked the fuck out

This is such a fallacy. Should steroids also be made legal on account "well this one player used them, and he's no Lebron James." It's a silly stance to take, especially when the sport entails beating the everlasting fuck out of one another. You really want a transwoman of equal or even greater skill to be in the ring with a ciswoman? That's just asking for serious head trauma, or even death.

 

[Digital Joker]

See, now why the fuck do you have to come along and say something so fucking stupid at this point... Fucking moron.

Listen I'm all for people doing whatever they want to do in life as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Guys want to marry guys? No problem. Feel like you identify more with a women and want a sex change? Its your life and if its what makes you happy than go for it.
But don' t try to roll up in a pickup truck with a hemi engine and try to tell me its a fucking Mazda Miata just because you put 14inch rims and tires on it.

 

[Reneledarker]

I couldn't tell which one used to be the man till I googled.

Spoiler

Would still have sex with them both

Anyways Fallon Fox lost so any advantages she may have had due to having a dick at one point in her life apparently didn't keep her from getting knocked the fuck out

Nope, and I bet most of the average skilled female fighters could take her. I saw some of her last fights and she was just facing bad opponents, that is why she looked so dominant.

This is such a fallacy. Should steroids also be made legal on account "well this one player used them, and he's no Lebron James." It's a silly stance to take, especially when the sport entails beating the everlasting fuck out of one another. You really want a transwoman of equal or even greater skill to be in the ring with a ciswoman? That's just asking for serious head trauma, or even death.

I find this "safety" argument to be pretty stupid. It is a contact sport after all. I am pretty sure Cyborg hits as strong as Fox. Should Cyborg be banned from MMA? If another woman hits as strong as Fox, should her also be banned?

 

[Fahrenheit]

She didn't get knocked out. Ref stopped the fight because she wasn't defending herself which appeared to be because she was tired.

Yeah I know but "getting technical knocked the fuck out" didn't have a ring to it.