Support NeoGAF

[Paracelsus]

Microsoft alone has the power to destroy Japanese gaming when they can't pay people to pick up their console....IN JAPAN!?

Is this the fucking Twilight Zone?

I cannot believe what I'm reading here. Is there a such thing as Troll-con?

Did you even read what you wrote? It doesn't matter what they wanted, but what they did. They cockblocked Sony long enough for Japanese console gaming to completely die by siding with the Nintendo DS which was a demented suicidal move because they didn't realize it wasn't gonna last and when portable gaming eventually disappeared (it did) they were gonna be left 10 years behind by the western developers, which is what happened, plus the shift in audience while they weren't there on home consoles.
Japan needed a leading machine. By not f*****g off and insisting on stopping Sony, they unwittingly ended up unleashing the kraken in the USA (Sony going full yankee which ended up biting MS in the arse big time) and killing Japanese gaming in the process.

 

[Aintitcool]

Halo was a great game and that justified MS on the console space.

 

[Vasto]

Behold, Microsoft's Rise To Power

 

[Tygeezy]

Blame xenophobic Japanese gamers for not buying them.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Well, there is some truth to this. The idea of DLC or Microtransactions can be traced back to Microsoft as well, at least the mainstreaming of it in the console space. There was also that brilliant idea of the "used games pass" where you had to pay extra to gain access to online features if you bought it 2nd hand (although credit for that probably goes to MS + EA and WB and the likes). I mean it's not like Sony and Nintendo don't try to pinch every single penny from your pocket, but they generally just kinda fumble around and what makes Microsoft so scary in that regard is that they ARE actually really fucking good and incredibly effective at that.

 

[Bernkastel]

Well, there is some truth to this. The idea of DLC or Microtransactions can be traced back to Microsoft as well, at least the mainstreaming of it in the console space. There was also that brilliant idea of the "used games pass" where you had to pay extra to gain access to online features if you bought it 2nd hand (although credit for that probably goes to MS + EA and WB and the likes). I mean it's not like Sony and Nintendo don't try to pinch every single penny from your pocket, but they generally just kinda fumble around and what makes Microsoft so scary in that regard is that they ARE actually really fucking good and incredibly effective at that.

Umm no. Dreamcast games had DLC before Xbox. And MTX originated from freemium mobile games.

Most of the recent multiplayer games from Microsoft like Forza Horizon 4, Sea of Theives, State of Decay 2, Killer Instinct and Crackdown 3 have either none or almost non existent MTX. Sony, on the other hand added MTX to Gran Turismo Sport and MLB The Show has stubs. Microsoft never entered into the Lootbox and MTX controversy, stop trying to say they are part of it.
As for paying to play online, remember that at that time, online games had their own subscription. You had to pay a monthly subscription for EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI in your PS2. On that regard, one Gold sub for all your online games is very generous.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

I mostly agree. The problem with Microsoft in this space is that they entered it solely as a cynical business venture, and largely to prop up other areas of their empire (PC sales, software dominance, etc). That should always be regarded as highly suspect, compared to gaming companies (Nintendo, SEGA, ...) that are primarily driven by creators or that entered the gaming market for creative purposes rather than to take over another strategic sector.

 

[CyberPanda]

This thread in a nutshell:

 

[Bernkastel]

I mostly agree. The problem with Microsoft in this space is that they entered it solely as a cynical business venture, and largely to prop up other areas of their empire (PC sales, software dominance, etc). That should always be regarded as highly suspect, compared to gaming companies (Nintendo, SEGA, ...) that are primarily driven by creators or that entered the gaming market for creative purposes rather than to take over another strategic sector.

Sony also entered it as a cynical business(like buying Sega and Nintendo exclusives). The Xbox didn't even make any profit during OG Xbox and Xbox 360 era, and they still kept the division around as a hobby.
Infact, Microsoft already had a game console called MSX during the 80s and early 90s. They also, invested a lot in DOS and PC gaming before Xbox. Even after creating Xbox, Microsoft never actively tried to make games from other platform exclusive to Xbox.

 

[FranXico]

Microsoft never entered into the Lootbox and MTX controversy, stop trying to say they are part of it.

Halo 5 and Gears 4 still have microtransactions, don't they? Thankfully, they didn't go as overboard as the Forza Motorsport 7 lootboxes.
The FM7 backlash probably has to do with all the patching stuff out, though.
In fact, it seems Halo Infinite is going to have microtransactions at the end of the day.

Sony, on the other hand added MTX to Gran Turismo Sport and MLB The Show has stubs.

God of War has no microtransactions.
Sony's latest game, Days Gone, has no microtransactions either, as far as I know.

So, if MS didn't use MTX in recent games, we can re-write history and pretend they never had anything to do with the practice, but we can't do the same for Sony?

 

[Krakin]

I'm not a MS fan but I blame Sony for messing up bad enough to allow MS to go on their money hatting spree.

 

[Jigsaah]

Did you even read what you wrote? It doesn't matter what they wanted, but what they did. They cockblocked Sony long enough for Japanese console gaming to completely die by siding with the Nintendo DS which was a demented suicidal move because they didn't realize it wasn't gonna last and when portable gaming eventually disappeared (it did) they were gonna be left 10 years behind by the western developers, which is what happened, plus the shift in audience while they weren't there on home consoles.
Japan needed a leading machine. By not f*****g off and insisting on stopping Sony, they unwittingly ended up unleashing the kraken in the USA (Sony going full yankee which ended up biting MS in the arse big time) and killing Japanese gaming in the process.

Cock blocked Sony? From launching Blue Dragon and Lost odyssey? How does getting exclusivity on 2 games ruin all of console gaming for Japanese developers?

Could it be that Japanese lifestyle synergizes better with mobile gaming? Didnt the switch just surpass the PS4?

Dude there are soooooo many other factors to consider than blaming xbox for something that even if this were true.

Your points are baseless.

 

[johntown]

Wow there have been a few amusing posts today but this one top them all.

Lay off the LSD OP

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Umm no. Dreamcast games had DLC before Xbox. And MTX originated from freemium mobile games.

Most of the recent multiplayer games from Microsoft like Forza Horizon 4, Sea of Theives, State of Decay 2, Killer Instinct and Crackdown 3 have either none or almost non existent MTX. Sony, on the other hand added MTX to Gran Turismo Sport and MLB The Show has stubs. Microsoft never entered into the Lootbox and MTX controversy, stop trying to say they are part of it.
As for paying to play online, remember that at that time, online games had their own subscription. You had to pay a monthly subscription for EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI in your PS2. On that regard, one Gold sub for all your online games is very generous.

Well again, I'm talking about normalizing microtransactions in the console space. The Dreamcast wasn't popular enough to do that in general, let alone the small portion of players that actually went online. That's also irregardless of how they themselves handle it currently.

As for the Gold subscription, while it's true that MMO's always had pay to play subs, shooters and many other online multiplayer games did in fact not have that. And those are the games that Microsoft made you pay for and by the way, you STILL had to pay an extra subscription fee for FFXI on Xbox 360.
That wasn't one of my peeves with MS though at the time as the 360 online experience was VASTLY superior to what everyone else offered. But it did normalize it and I don't think current subscriptions for any of the 3 console manufacturers offer adequate value for the money they make you pay.

 

[Hissing Sid]

This thread in a nutshell:

Grounds for divorce.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

The ''demise'' of the Japanese market aka the period between 2006 and 2010 when Japanese softcos suffered a lot happened because of the transition from SD graphics development and HD graphics development, it doesn't have anything to do with whatever you're talking about.
Just wanted to clarify that.

You are correct, Japanese AAA development was hurt simply by the ballooning cost of game development, this also hurt a shit ton of western developers too, to blame this all on Microsoft is full on absurd.

Not to mention the PS3 was simply a pain in the ass to develop for.

In addition Japanese gamers themselves decided that they would rather play games on the train than at home, it had nothing to do with Microsoft.

I agree that the westernization of gaming has been a net negative for the gaming industry, but you can't pin the blame entirely on Microsoft.

If Japanese games is what you like, the original Xbox justifies it's existence with it's Dead or Alive games and Ninja Gaiden alone.

 

[Bernkastel]

Halo 5 and Gears 4 still have microtransactions, don't they? Thankfully, they didn't go as overboard as the Forza Motorsport 7 lootboxes.
The FM7 backlash probably has to do with all the patching stuff out, though.
In fact, it seems Halo Infinite is going to have microtransactions at the end of the day.


God of War has no microtransactions.
Sony's latest game, Days Gone, has no microtransactions either, as far as I know.

So, if MS didn't use MTX in recent games, we can re-write history and pretend they never had anything to do with the practice, but we can't do the same for Sony?

Well, Forza Motorsport 7 didn't have any MTX at launch. They had Lootboxes but you can't pay for them with real money. When, they removed those Lootboxes people acted like they removed MTX. Unless, you also consider this as a MTX


The MTX in Halo 5 are purely cosmetic. In return you get all DLC for free. Infact, unlike other FPS Multiplayer cosmetics, they don't look out of place with the game in Halo 5


At 8:17 he talks about how in Halo 5 and Overwatch, cosmetics don't look out of place with the theme of the game. Even then, they will get rid of those in Halo Infinite.


I forgot to mention Phantom Dust, it's free with no in game MTX.
God of War and Days Gone are single player games, I am talking about multiplayer games here. You don't see any MTX in Sunset Overdrive and Quantum Break either.

 

[Son_of_Zardoz]

This thread is so fucking dumb I don't even know how to respond.

MS has been no worse for gaming than any other company. Just because you have some strange, completely made up fantasy where you think they have doomed Japanese gaming companies doesn't mean it's remotely true.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Microsoft elevates the gaming division who prior to gaming scraped and clawed in the PC realm.

 

[Solid Slammus]

This is like 'SONY KILLED SEGA AND THEREFORE FUCK SONY' brought back to life

except with like, ten thousand percent less merit.

lmaooo

 

[Stuart360]

Jesus christ some of you lol. The OP is JOKING, read his post in this thread if you dont believe it lol -
The Real Problem With Bioware and Bungie, and Greed

 

[The Alien]

Must be satire.

Too many of the opinions expressed here can easily be fact checked in the past month alone.

 

[TLZ]

Nicely written satire.

 

[Breakage]

There would be no Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden II if Xbox didn't exist.

Ninja Gaiden was originally going to be a Dreamcast title IRC. No doubt the vision would be compromised on lesser hardware.
And Ninja Gaiden II...well you only have to look at Sigma 2 to how it works as a PS3 game.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

 

[ethomaz]

Nahhh I prefer they losing every new gen

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Nahhh I prefer they losing every new gen

Keep fighting the good fight, I guess.

 

[TriSuit666]

Not like this, OP. Not like this...

 

[Chittagong]

Haha, just realised that OP hasn’t posted at all after the first post

 

[Stuart360]

Haha, just realised that OP hasn’t posted at all after the first post

Jesus christ some of you lol. The OP is JOKING, read his post in this thread if you dont believe it lol -
The Real Problem With Bioware and Bungie, and Greed

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

OP got me.

 

[Bolivar687]

Haha, just realised that OP hasn’t posted at all after the first post

I'm just trying to make it out of this one without a title

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Microsoft exited the console market. There are no exclusive Xbox games that interest me and I prefer single-player experiences as opposed to online. At the very least, they should stop selling Xbox consoles in Japan, given their consistently awful sales performance in said region.

 

[GrayFoxRJ]

Uncharted 4 has mtx, just a reminder.

 

[Vawn]

Come on Xbox introduced plenty of features to move the entire video game industry forward.

- They invented the fantastic ability to pay to play games online. Something Sony or Nintendo never would have discovered without Xbox's innovation.

- They've greatly helped move the industry to a system dominated by paid DLC and microtransactions.

- They were the first to master the art of spending money to keep games off of competitors platforms instead of wasting that money making actual new games.

- They proved that millions of gamers will praise a PR leader who constantly promises the moon and delivers nothing, as long as the 50-something year-old dresses like a 22 year-old nerd

 

[Stuart360]

Come on Xbox introduced plenty of features to move the entire video game industry forward.

- They invented the fantastic ability to pay to play games online. Something Sony or Nintendo never would have discovered without Xbox's innovation.

- They've greatly helped move the industry to a system dominated by paid DLC and microtransactions.

- They were the first to master the art of spending money to keep games off of competitors platforms instead of wasting that money making actual new games.

- They proved that millions of gamers will praise a PR leader who constantly promises the moon and delivers nothing, as long as the 50-something year-old dresses like a 22 year-old nerd

 

[Elenchus]

Did you even read what you wrote? It doesn't matter what they wanted, but what they did. They cockblocked Sony long enough for Japanese console gaming to completely die by siding with the Nintendo DS which was a demented suicidal move because they didn't realize it wasn't gonna last and when portable gaming eventually disappeared (it did) they were gonna be left 10 years behind by the western developers, which is what happened, plus the shift in audience while they weren't there on home consoles.
Japan needed a leading machine. By not f*****g off and insisting on stopping Sony, they unwittingly ended up unleashing the kraken in the USA (Sony going full yankee which ended up biting MS in the arse big time) and killing Japanese gaming in the process.

Only thing that destroyed Japanese games is the inferiority of Japanese games design.

 

[Enjay]

The true evil is nintendo.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

What's the opposite of gifting Gold?

Shitting on someone's steps and lighting it on fire.

 

[VooDooChicken]

never been a fan of M$, a bit of history: xbox appeared as something they had for testing direct x; this is why is called xbox (or the box used to test direct x); which is why the first xbox was an under-powered pc, and also why some people used it as a pc (it had I don't remember if a celeron or a pentium of the previous generation of what was in the market at the moment). But also, the other part is that direct x appeared to sabotage opengl. You see, it was the custom of M$ to make things run only on Windows, so if a developer made something using opengl, that developer would had to rewrite it so it would use direct x if he wanted it to run on Windows; or on the other hand, use direct x from the beginning, and forget opengl at all. That ensured 3d media would run on Windows only if the developer was not willing to deal of the cost of rewriting it twice. Ironically, since opengl was a standard and directx was not and instead it appeared overnight, what the first versions of direct x did was to call opengl under the bonnet.

Of course games made for xbox were intended to cash in; that is the same thing on every console, as that's their business. They don't do it just to make people happy, unless they can get something from it.

 

[Highway Star]

I think Microsoft under Steve Ballmer is where most of the damage came from. He created a divided, and toxic work environment at Microsoft. Since Satya Nadella has taken over, he's moved Microsoft in a different direction than the previous CEO. With Phil Spencer at the head of their gaming division we've seen an almost complete 180 for the XBOX.
I'm looking forward to the future of gaming in a positive way.

 

[VooDooChicken]

xbox 360 was much better than ps3
the only advantage ps3 had was free online

don't agree; but that's subjective (as is yours)

 

[Highway Star]

never been a fan of M$, a bit of history: xbox appeared as something they had for testing direct x; this is why is called xbox (or the box used to test direct x); which is why the first xbox was an under-powered pc, and also why some people used it as a pc (it had I don't remember if a celeron or a pentium of the previous generation of what was in the market at the moment). But also, the other part is that direct x appeared to sabotage opengl. You see, it was the custom of M$ to make things run only on Windows, so if a developer made something using opengl, that developer would had to rewrite it so it would use direct x if he wanted it to run on Windows; or on the other hand, use direct x from the beginning, and forget opengl at all. That ensured 3d media would run on Windows only if the developer was not willing to deal of the cost of rewriting it twice. Ironically, since opengl was a standard and directx was not and instead it appeared overnight, what the first versions of direct x did was to call opengl under the bonnet.

Of course games made for xbox were intended to cash in; that is the same thing on every console, as that's their business. They don't do it just to make people happy, unless they can get something from it.

Don't bogart that joint

 

[VooDooChicken]

Don't bogart that joint

I had to google what that meant; according to 'urban dictionary' it means to hog, but really, I don't get what you mean by that

 

[Ryllix_]

I didn't even make it hallway through that insanity. The gaming industry would be far worse off if Sony didn't have competition.

 

[VooDooChicken]

The true evil is nintendo.

the thread has 'trolling' in the title, but I am not sure if your comment is intended just to troll. Certainly PlayStation appeared because of Nintendo's foul play (the thing about the CD for the SNES), but if something I consider Nintendo the most ethical between the current ones. Also, it seems nobody remembers the 360's ring of death, which I believe had a rate of 30% failure in the first generation

 

[Enjay]

the thread has 'trolling' in the title, but I am not sure if your comment is intended just to troll. Certainly PlayStation appeared because of Nintendo's foul play (the thing about the CD for the SNES), but if something I consider Nintendo the most ethical between the current ones. Also, it seems nobody remembers the 360's ring of death, which I believe had a rate of 30% failure in the first generation

I was just trolling but if you can remember the rrod you should be reminded of nintendo forcing squaresoft (back when they were good) to require game boy advances to play final fantasy crystal chronicles (squaresoft's first release on a nintendo console which was a big deal and a highly anticipated game at the time).

They're all evil.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

EA is the true evil.

 

[Bernkastel]

Come on Xbox introduced plenty of features to move the entire video game industry forward.

- They invented the fantastic ability to pay to play games online. Something Sony or Nintendo never would have discovered without Xbox's innovation.

- They've greatly helped move the industry to a system dominated by paid DLC and microtransactions.

- They were the first to master the art of spending money to keep games off of competitors platforms instead of wasting that money making actual new games.

- They proved that millions of gamers will praise a PR leader who constantly promises the moon and delivers nothing, as long as the 50-something year-old dresses like a 22 year-old nerd

-During the PS2 era you paid a subscription to play for online games like EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI
-Paid DLC was a thing in Dreamcast and PC gaming before Xbox. MTX first came about in freemium mobile games. Xbox never themselves actively took part in MTX(just look at all their recent games, Sea of Theives,State of Decay 2, Forza Horizon 4, Crackdown 3 and Killer Instinct have either none or almost non existent MTX).
-Sony first did this in the PS1 era, when they paid to lock Sega and Nintendo games as PlayStation exclusive. Even recently SF V was PS4 console exclusive.
-I am sorry, but do you hate the fact that Phil does not act like a comic villain for you.

 

[Paracelsus]

Cock blocked Sony? From launching Blue Dragon and Lost odyssey? How does getting exclusivity on 2 games ruin all of console gaming for Japanese developers?

Could it be that Japanese lifestyle synergizes better with mobile gaming? Didnt the switch just surpass the PS4?

Dude there are soooooo many other factors to consider than blaming xbox for something that even if this were true.

Your points are baseless.

Microsoft blocked PS3 Tales of Vesperia

Microsoft paid Namco Bandai to keep Tales of Vesperia a Western Xbox 360 exclusive. That's why the belated, expanded Pl…

www.eurogamer.net

Namco: Microsoft Paid for Western Tales of Vesperia Exclusivity | RPG Site

Decision to localize the PS3 version "out of their hands."

www.rpgsite.net

And we knew this on neogaf way before this article. They had lowkey confirmed it, that they had planned to delay the 360 version a little and make it multiplatform (with the extra content coming later anyway) but "reason" got them to change their mind.

It's okay if you don't know, I don't blame you, but we were around at the early going of the PS360 generation. Microsoft "stealing" games was a very trendy topic.
Microsoft bribed in many ways (IU funding triAce engine which ended up in them releasing SO4 on 360 a year earlier, Microsoft helping a lot with the UE3 on The Last Remnant which convinced them to eventually give up the PS3 version) a lot of developers into making their games multiplatform or early exclusives. Multiplatform games don't have the same drawing power actual KA exclusives have, same for year old sloppy seconds, no matter how good.

Sony screwed up big time but there is no doubt Microsoft was a huge help in making things worse.

Remember FFXIV? It was born as a 360-PC project. Microsoft paid server costs for the 360 version of FFXI, and allowed silver members to play it. When the time for FFXIV came Japan was already a dead gaming environment and since MS were dominating gaming they changed their attitude: they wanted only gold members and maybe more (allegedly a cut of the subs). That's what led to them rushing back to Sony.