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Trouble with this current generation

K

kammy

Banned
Lack of niche or small games that are any good.

All we're getting is blockbusters and wannabe blockbusters. Companies are releasing less games and taking less risks. How many games have Konami, Capcom, Square, Namco released this generation? Not many.

The PS1 thread thats going right now just highlights this. This is going to be a bad gneration. I would have thought the Wii could continue with lots of niche games but its not. DS is delivering to a certain extent but this generation just seems soulless and uneventful so far.
 
The Wii has a lot of original, vibrant stuff coming down the tubes. I'm sure later in the lifespan of the PS3, we'll begin to see more niche titles be released.
 
EBA?
De Blob?
Endless Ocean?
Katamari Sequel?

Just some that come to mind. What kind of games did you really enjoy from past generations that were "niche", then we might have an idea of where you're coming from.
 
kammy said:
Lack of niche or small games that are any good.

All we're getting is blockbusters and wannabe blockbusters. Companies are releasing less games and taking less risks. How many games have Konami, Capcom, Square, Namco released this generation? Not many.

The PS1 thread thats going right now just highlights this. This is going to be a bad gneration. I would have thought the Wii could continue with lots of niche games but its not. DS is delivering to a certain extent but this generation just seems soulless and uneventful so far.
Click to expand...

XBLA?

PSN?
 
We're not even past first-gen games for PS3 and Wii, and barely into 2nd gen for 360. Obviously you're going to see the blockbusters first, games take a bit of time to develop...

As for niche games, they're probably going to be more prevalent this gen as downloadable titles, such as Geometry Wars, SSHD, Echochrome, Calling All Cars, etc.

I think you could count Lost Planet from Capcom as a fairly big risk as they really had no idea what the payoff would be, and probably the same with The Last Remnant from Square.


I could see merit in this post if we would be in the same situation 2 years from now, but you have to give this gen some time as it is way too early to be making this claim right now.
 
kammy said:
Lack of niche or small games that are any good.
Click to expand...

I will tell you the why. It's extremely simple.

For as long as there won't be a console userbase totally surpassing all others, there will be your lack of niche and small games.

Those games are a higher risk. This means you need a freaking solid userbase in other to have more potential sales and actually diminishing the risk to release that said game.
This is why the PS2 had a awesome library of those. It is only because it's userbase was totally trouncing anything we've seen before and all the competition.

The other chance for you to see such games is also when we will reach the idealistic "one console futur". The loss of risk this would bring to potential sales would make more of those games to appear.
 
I don't know, we've seen some pretty nifty stuff like Dead Rising, Chromehounds, Table Tennis (seriously, wtf), EDF finally, Condemned, and a whole ton of XBLA games that aren't just ports. If anything, I think this generation (At least on the 360) has been pumping out more smaller, niche, titles than we have seen before.

And you gotta admit, Flow on the PS3 is probably the most niche thing I've seen released on any platform, ever. Well, maybe tied to that talking fish thing on the Dreamcast.
 
That's because the PS2 is still more alive than either next-gen. console, there's no need for them to move right now.
 
how many niche or small games did those companies release in the first 2 years of last generation's launch?


i don't think this is really a big thing yet. there have been some niche games, but not from those companies (take EDF2017 as an example). i imagine many of the smaller and niche games are still being made for the ps2, as that's where the money is at, as the numbers slowly begin to build, then i imagine you'll see some of them eventually migrate over.
 
It will be downloadable titles .

In the xbox 360 limit you can most likely produce near dreamcast quality games which should be cheap to develop compared to even wii games .

With the ps3 you should be able to get ps2 lvl graphics at or around wii prices or dreamcast games for less than that .

On both systems you can get ps1/saturn / n64 game quality and lower for dirt cheap.

What will happen is that developers will take cool quirky ideas and release them as downloadable games that fit with their vision . if its a success on the dlc format they will then make a much longer and better looking version for retail .

This gen we coudl actually see the little titles become a much bigger and widespread movement .
 
I remember the EA spokesman saying, that thier would be less games this generation becuase of the cost. People on the GAF seem to have forgotten this statement. All the GAF want the Hi tech graphic and that takes time and money. I am not expecting alot of games on the 360 and PS3 like thier was on the PS2. As for company not taking a chance, they are pouring alot of money into these games, they don't want them to fail. The only hope for creative games will be on the Wii or XBL or PSN.
 
kammy said:
Lack of niche or small games that are any good.

All we're getting is blockbusters and wannabe blockbusters. Companies are releasing less games and taking less risks. How many games have Konami, Capcom, Square, Namco released this generation? Not many.

The PS1 thread thats going right now just highlights this. This is going to be a bad gneration. I would have thought the Wii could continue with lots of niche games but its not. DS is delivering to a certain extent but this generation just seems soulless and uneventful so far.
Click to expand...

It's about $$$ at the end of the day.
 
The thing about this gen is it's too tech-savvy and complex for many people. I am relatively young, and informed about the difference between various HD formats, audio formats and etc - but when I explain those to some of my friends, they just go like "huh?".

When I dulge into some system options in PS3's XMB, I also go like "huh?"... like I don't really know much difference between PCM or whatever it says. Frequent firware updates, and it gets even more complicated when everything's wireless too!

Simplicity is always a key to reach the mass market - and this generation is pretty complicated. In old days, you just hook up the Yellow, White, Red cables and everything was pretty peachy. (perhaps, S-Video - but many of my friends didn't even know what it was either!)

I think people who are younger than me, might know these things much better - but I don't think none of previous gen machines were this complicated. The trend did start out in last gen - but this gen has took it to the much higher level it seems... and requiring full HD monitor to experience the full graphical power is another downside too... not to mention, various different existing formats, various connections and all.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to give the ones who know the more advanced options, and each obstacle is easy enough to tackle one-by-one, but when you look at the whole thing at once, it gets a bit too overwhelming for a person who's starting to fall behind technology. ;)
 
kammy said:
How many games have Konami, Capcom, Square, Namco released this generation? Not many.
Click to expand...
Well, so far for internal projects...

Konami
-Pro Yakyuu Spirits 3 (360)
-Mahjong Kakutou Club (PS3)
-Elebits (Wii)
-Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007 (360)
-Dance Dance Revolution Universe (360)
-Pro Yakyuu Spirits 4 (PS3)
-Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu Wii (Wii)
-Dewey's Adventure (Wii)

Capcom
-Dead Rising (360)
-Lost Planet: Extreme Condition (360)
-Resident Evil 4 (Wii)

Square Enix
-Final Fantasy XI: Online (360)
-Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors (Wii)

Namco
-Ridge Racer 6 (360)
-Love Football (360)
-Ridge Racer 7 (PS3)
-Ennichi no Tatsujin (Wii)
-Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection (PSN)
-The Idol Master (360)
-Pac-Man Championship Edition (XBLA)

*edit* and rounding out Japan's "big 5"...

SEGA
-Phantasy Star Universe (360)
-Sega Golf Club Featuring Miyazato Family (PS3)
-Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz (Wii)
-Sonic the Hedgehog (360/PS3)
-Virtua Fighter 5 (PS3)
-Sonic and the Secret Rings (Wii)
-Virtua Tennis 3 (360/PS3)
-Jissen Pachi-Slot Pachinko Hisshouhou! Sammy's Collection Hokuto no Ken Wii (Wii)
-Puyo Puyo! 15th Anniversary (Wii)
 
kammy said:
Lack of niche or small games that are any good.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of small games that are good this generation.

Small 360 games that are good:

Geometry Wars
Catan
Carcassonne

Small PS3 games that are good:

Calling All Cars
Super Stardust HD

Those are just the ones I've played and consider good. There are probably more, including stuff on Nintendo VC(I don't have a Wii, yet).

As far as niche games go, you don't get those early on in the life of a console, you get them later on when the install base is enough to support the relatively low sales of a niche title. The only exception is when Sony/MS/Nintendo has one of their first party studios specifically make a niche title. Viva Pinata is an example of this.
 
joesmokey said:
We're not even past first-gen games for PS3 and Wii, and barely into 2nd gen for 360. Obviously you're going to see the blockbusters first, games take a bit of time to develop...

As for niche games, they're probably going to be more prevalent this gen as downloadable titles, such as Geometry Wars, SSHD, Echochrome, Calling All Cars, etc.

I think you could count Lost Planet from Capcom as a fairly big risk as they really had no idea what the payoff would be, and probably the same with The Last Remnant from Square.


I could see merit in this post if we would be in the same situation 2 years from now, but you have to give this gen some time as it is way too early to be making this claim right now.
Click to expand...


this man can read my brain
 
lachesis said:
The thing about this gen is it's too tech-savvy and complex for many people. I am relatively young, and informed about the difference between various HD formats, audio formats and etc - but when I explain those to some of my friends, they just go like "huh?".

When I dulge into some system options in PS3's XMB, I also go like "huh?"... like I don't really know much difference between PCM or whatever it says. Frequent firware updates, and it gets even more complicated when everything's wireless too!

Simplicity is always a key to reach the mass market - and this generation is pretty complicated. In old days, you just hook up the Yellow, White, Red cables and everything was pretty peachy. (perhaps, S-Video - but many of my friends didn't even know what it was either!)

I think people who are younger than me, might know these things much better - but I don't think none of previous gen machines were this complicated. The trend did start out in last gen - but this gen has took it to the much higher level it seems... and requiring full HD monitor to experience the full graphical power is another downside too... not to mention, various different existing formats, various connections and all.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to give the ones who know the more advanced options, and each obstacle is easy enough to tackle one-by-one, but when you look at the whole thing at once, it gets a bit too overwhelming for a person who's starting to fall behind technology. ;)
Click to expand...


I can give you the constant updates to the psp and ps3 need to stop. Its to much for the average user . This is one place i think ms has an advantage over sony. They roll out big updates once or twice a year that fixes alot of things all at once. It pops up on the screen and says hey you have to install me. it akes a few minutes and its done. Sony however has alot of smaller updates in addition to the tons of game updates that both of them have. its a bit over whelming to the users .

But in the end for the next gen systems they should all be running at 1080p standard with a scaler built in that will automaticly turn down to whatever your tv supports .
 
How are the updates for either the PSP or PS3 overwhelming? Turn on your PS3 and discover you can't sign-in until you update, press a few buttons, walk away and it's done. With the PSP it's just as simple, you can't play a game until you do the firmware update. Same deal,press a few buttons andit's done.

I'm pretty much a neo-luddite and find neither overwhleming in that regard. What I do find overwhemling is the litany of features that are being added and tweaked. I swear I haven't touched half of the capabilities of either system, and probably won't unless I sit down and read through the manuals in earnest.


As for the main topic at hand: as has been stated multiple times...

- It's too early in this generation for the niche games to be showing up on the newer systems.

- No system has surpassed the PS2 as of yet, and the demand for software on that system is still fairly strong.

- If anything we'll see more niche games on the downloadable services on all three consoles.
 
kammy said:
Lack of niche or small games that are any good.
Click to expand...

Someone lacks both patience and historical hindsight. The quirky games don't come until there's a clear winner in the race, and even then until it's clear the winner is selling large enough to make selling quirky games worthwhile.

The PS2 didn't start out with Katamari Damacy, you know?
 
jaundicejuice said:
How are the updates for either the PSP or PS3 overwhelming? Turn on your PS3 and discover you can't sign-in until you update, press a few buttons, walk away and it's done. With the PSP it's just as simple, you can't play a game until you do the firmware update. Same deal,press a few buttons andit's done.

I'm pretty much a neo-luddite and find neither overwhleming in that regard. What I do find overwhemling is the litany of features that are being added and tweaked. I swear I haven't touched half of the capabilities of either system, and probably won't unless I sit down and read through the manuals in earnest.
Click to expand...

It's not overwhelming - but for a casual game player like I am, who probably gets about 30 min of gaming time in every few days, I turn on the machine and it asks for the updates. Yes, I walk away - and my gaming time's over. I find it, very annoying. Walk away for 30 min, come back, it's downloaded - so now it's time to install. Hook up that 2 ft sixaxis controller (while the lastes didn't have to, thank god), and walk away another few min. Voila! Time to go to bed! :( Xbox 360's update is quite quick and installs amost instantly in comparison.

For what. All the techie stuff that doesn't really affect me nor I won't bother with too much.... but that desktop theme was pretty nice. I've put up my baby's picture in the bkg... but I find it's a function that they should have put in there to begin with. One could say each update is for the better - but for me it just shows how incomplete both X360 and PS3 really was when got released in terms of OS.
 
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