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[Rentahamster]

Did I say that they were? I said if for a reason.

They're not though. At least not in the short term.

 

[Man with Knife]

As much of a shithead Assad is, wouldn't Syria be worse off if he was taken down by the rebels? I saw this French documentary some months ago, and in it, the women interviewed said that Assad was secular and allowed women to work and participate in arts and all, while the rebels were extremists who wanted to enslave them.

Hussein was also a shithead, and everyone agrees now that taking him down was the worst possible outcome.

As a general rule of thumb, you can just look at Saudi-Arabia's stance on anything and then safely support the exact opposite. Since they want Assad to be removed from power, yes, you better damn believe Syria would be worse off then.

 

[Ishan]

I don't think Hindu nationalism should be dragged into this. And then comparing it to Islamic extremism is a bit of a stretch especially given this particular incident

 

[celljean89]

I think someone should primary her, I don't like her positions, before and after she endorse Bernie Sanders. Just because you're cool with Bernie Sanders, doesn't mean you're a progressive. She's like one of those fake liberal that are an Islamophobia and are "against SJW". I like the idea of Justice Democrats, they should challenge her in her district.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

As a general rule of thumb, you can just look at Saudi-Arabia's stance on anything and then safely support the exact opposite. Since they want Assad to be removed from power, yes, you better damn believe Syria would be worse off then.

Saudi Arabia supports Iran not having a nuke, gotta give Iran some nukes I suppose.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Any evidence that she isn't representing her district adequately would be reflected in her electorate's opinion of her. If it remains solidly positive, there is no reason. Until your suspicion is confirmed by data, you're just trying to promote your silly purity test for no clear gain.

I am being pragmatic. You, however, are on a crusade.

This is a poor assessment of what it means to represent a district because it ignores things like incumbency and non-competitive general elections where anyone of a certain party will win. Like, sure, Tulsi won in 2016. That doesn't mean she's representing her district adequately. Her voting record in the House suggests otherwise.

You are not being pragmatic because just about any Democrat will win in HI-2. It is not a red state or a R+5 district. You didn't address this earlier - do you understand the difference between primarying a centrist Democrat in a safe seat vs a competitive seat?

 

[Moff]

As much of a shithead Assad is, wouldn't Syria be worse off if he was taken down by the rebels? I saw this French documentary some months ago, and in it, the women interviewed said that Assad was secular and allowed women to work and participate in arts and all, while the rebels were extremists who wanted to enslave them.

Hussein was also a shithead, and everyone agrees now that taking him down was the worst possible outcome.

There was a time when the moderate rebels could have been a force of good, but plenty of independent journalists agree by now that the moderate rebel groups are controlled by Islamist fundamentalist extremists. If they won the Syrian people would experience a living hell much worse than Iraq with it's unstable regime.

If you want the least terrible outcome for the Syrian people there is no way around sitting down with Assad.

 

[boiled goose]

where are you Justice Dems?

Wouldn't going after her for MEETING with Assad the biggest purity test ever?

The hypocrisy by some on this board is hilarious.

Fyi. Justice Democrats is about corporate and big money influencing policy.

If assad donates to her campaign and then she proposes assad friendly policy that's when you should call justice dems.

So many on this board are so eager to hate on progressives that they don't realize how stupid of an argument they are making. Only validated by a comfy sounding board.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

This is a poor assessment of what it means to represent a district because it ignores things like incumbency and non-competitive general elections where anyone of a certain party will win. Like, sure, Tulsi won in 2016. That doesn't mean she's representing her district adequately. Her voting record in the House suggests otherwise.

You are not being pragmatic because just about any Democrat will win in HI-2. It is not a red state or a R+5 district. You didn't address this earlier - do you understand the difference between primarying a centrist Democrat in a safe seat vs a competitive seat?

There is no difference, primarying Joe Manchin with a black woman who hates coal is exactly as good as primarying Tulsi Gabbard. "Practicality" and things like that are not real things, clearly.

Wouldn't going after her for MEETING with Assad the biggest purity test ever?

The hypocrisy by some on this board is hilarious.

Hey, have you read anything in the OP.

I have a purity test of "don't propagate propaganda for people committing genocide."

This purity test is much less stupid than most purity tests proposed.

Everyone has purity tests. For example, I have the purity test of "I won't vote for someone who hates Muslims."

A lot of people just have very stupid purity tests like "I won't vote for someone who refuses to ban all fracking and nuclear power immediately."

 

[metalslimer]

Wouldn't going after her for MEETING with Assad the biggest purity test ever?

The hypocrisy by some on this board is hilarious.

Fyi. Justice Democrats is about corporate and big money influencing policy.

If assad donates to her campaign and then she proposes assad friendly policy that's when you should call justice dems.

So many on this board are so eager to hate on progressives that they don't realize how stupid of an argument they are making. Only validated by a comfy sounding board.

Keep up with the defense of an Islamophobic piece of trash that sacked up to Trump to try and get a cabinet spot

 

[boiled goose]

There is no difference, primarying Joe Manchin with a black woman who hates coal is exactly as good as primarying Tulsi Gabbard. "Practicality" and things like that are not real things, clearly.

The anti assad League can primary tulsi, sure. Different organizations focus on different problems

 

[Dopus]

Saudi Arabia supports Iran not having a nuke, gotta give Iran some nukes I suppose.

He was using hyperbole to convey his thoughts.

Also, could you identify which groups are the moderate ones again and how we should go about supporting them? You ignored that bit last time I asked.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

He was using hyperbole to convey his thoughts.

Also, could you identify which groups are the moderate ones again and how we should go about supporting them? You ignored that bit last time I asked.

For whatever reason, I have not responded quickly to "saying that all Syrians support Assad is not praise" posters.

But yes, I have supported the Free Syrian Army as better group than Assad even though they've had to ally with some Al-Qaeda forces to try to hold East Aleppo.

 

[boiled goose]

Keep up with the defense of an Islamophobic piece of trash that sacked up to Trump to try and get a cabinet spot

Wtf! Where did I defend Tulsi??? This is the biggest strawman ever.

My only extremely clear point was that this was not relevant to the clear mission of Justice Democrats.

So asking them to primary her for THIS is silly.

Get it now???

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Wouldn't going after her for MEETING with Assad the biggest purity test ever?

The hypocrisy by some on this board is hilarious.

Fyi. Justice Democrats is about corporate and big money influencing policy.

If assad donates to her campaign and then she proposes assad friendly policy that's when you should call justice dems.

So many on this board are so eager to hate on progressives that they don't realize how stupid of an argument they are making. Only validated by a comfy sounding board.

If Justice Democrats is about corporate and big money influencing policy, then they should absolutely go after Gabbard, who's known to be friends with Republican billionaire Sheldon Adelson. She's even introduced bills for him!

http://time.com/3695948/sheldon-adelson-online-gambling/

 

[Wenger'sBakedBaguettes]

Meanwhile another US-backed "moderate rebel" group has "given" their weapons to AQ and Idlib continues to be an intense battle between the Salafist groups that don't serve US interest. Based on the coverage of it given so far I guess you could say the western media forgot civilians exist outside Aleppo.

 

[Dopus]

For whatever reason, I have not responded quickly to "saying that all Syrians support Assad is not praise" posters.

But yes, I have supported the Free Syrian Army as better group than Assad even though they've had to ally with some Al-Qaeda forces to try to hold East Aleppo.

She didn't say all Syrians. She said the Syrians she spoke to. Which of course they would say that, it's Western Syria.

The FSA are long since moderate rebels. And even if they were, the FSA are comprised of multiple factions with a lot of infighting and a lot of other groups on the fringes who are very much extremists. It is not feasible to support an assortment of militias, nor is it practical. They're not 'moderates'. There is already a huge problem with weapons being sold on the black market that are exported through Jordan, some even making their way to ISIS.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That's progressive icon Tulsi Gabbard for ya.

 

[Kurdel]

Wow, fuck Tulsi Gabbard.

 

[danm999]

I can see the argument with meeting with Assad but Jesus Christ at parroting his talking points regarding the Syrian conflict. Disgraceful.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Meanwhile another US-backed "moderate rebel" group has "given" their weapons to AQ and Idlib continues to be an intense battle between the Salafist groups that don't serve US interest. Based on the coverage of it given so far I guess you could say the western media forgot civilians exist outside Aleppo.

It certainly says a lot about the western mainstream media that they aren't covering the carnage in Idlib as the rebels fight each other.

 

[boiled goose]

If Justice Democrats is about corporate and big money influencing policy, then they should absolutely go after Gabbard, who's known to be friends with Republican billionaire Sheldon Adelson. She's even introduced bills for him!

http://time.com/3695948/sheldon-adelson-online-gambling/

Then they should and I think they will if they can. Point stands that it's not because Assad but because of her big money ties.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

How many scumbags do US reps rub elbows with over the last century? It's a part of the game. Sad but true.

We're not going to get Assad out. We've made that abundantly clear to the world.

The fuck else we suppose to do? Just not try for an discourse?

 

[excelsiorlef]

How many scumbags do US reps rub elbows with over the last century? It's a part of the game. Sad but true.

We're not going to get Assad out. We've made that abundantly clear to the world.

The fuck else we suppose to do? Just not try for an discourse?

There's discourse and a secretly financed meeting that ends with Tulsi speaking Assad propaganda talking points.

There are people who shouldn't be doing this discourse and one of them is Tulsi Gabbard

 

[RustyNails]

Piece of shit.

 

[ShironRedshift]

There's discourse and a secretly financed meeting that ends with Tulsi speaking Assad propaganda talking points.

There are people who shouldn't be doing this discourse and one of them is Tulsi Gabbard

Indeed. She had a tough history with bring an Islamaphobe and she refuses to disclose who actually financed the meeting? Why are people giving her the benefit of the doubt given that she can even be honest about who actually paid for this trip to happen? I don't get it. There's just far too much smoke here.

 

[Condom]

Piece of shit.

shitty source, tho I'm not sure if there is anything better out there

 

[Animator]

Piece of shit.

Oh wow a chart on the internet, it must be true! I am pretty sure ISIS alone killed way more than 2.5k people since 2011 based on the books I read on them.

 

[Stumpokapow]

She was on CNN acting as his apologist. She had more words of condemnation for the opposition than she did for the man who used chemical weapons against his own population.
That interview will be her undoing within the Democratic party, she may as well run as an independent next time.

Hawaii's second is D+21 Cook PVI; anyone running as a Democrat will win, anyone running as anything else will lose. The district has never elected a Republican in its entire history. Hawaii's other district elected a Republican twice, once when two Democrats ran as Democrats and split the vote badly enough (special elections in Hawaii don't have primaries); and once when a Democrat got primaried from the left by an ineffective candidate who didn't mount a real campaign. The state has had one Republican governor of eight. The state senate is composed of 25 Democrats and 0 Republicans. The state house is composed of 45 Democrats and 6 Republicans (couldn't finish the sweep? Embarrassing.)

If Gabbard can't get the Democratic nomination, she shouldn't bother continuing in Hawaiian politics.

 

[RustyNails]

Oh wow a chart on the internet, it must be true! I am pretty sure ISIS alone killed way more than 2.5k people since 2011 based on the books I read on them.

The Syrian Network for Human Rights (SNHR) is a UK-based non-governmental organization, founded in June 2011,[1] which monitors the Syrian Civil War. The organization's chairman is Fadel Abdul Ghani.

It has been routinely cited by news media,[2][3] as well as by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights[4] on at least one occasion.

I see the Russian Propaganda is finding it's way into gaf. Discredit and defame anyone that shows Assad/Putin in a bad light?

 

[Big Baybee]

Then they should and I think they will if they can. Point stands that it's not because Assad but because of her big money ties.

You know that they won't, though. Right? You also know this woman is not a fucking progressive, right?

 

[Kthulhu]

While I don't entirely disagree with her reasoning, I still think she shouldn't have done it.

Assad isn't our friend, and he's made it abundantly clear he doesn't care about helping bring peace to the region.

 

[APF]

Since someone mentioned it earlier, McDermott's trip to Iraq was a pointless and ineffective stunt that ended up doing more harm than good. While he raised legitimate points re the Bush Administration lying about WMD intelligence in order to fast-track the invasion, it was overshadowed by the suddenly long-held belief that you don't criticise US policy overseas--especially if you're not an official diplomatic envoy. The conversation that ensued wasn't about the wisdom of invasion or the certainty of the intelligence info being presented to the US people, but rather it was a convenient way of Iraq war apologists to concern troll over issues of propriety (that used to be a thing!) and cast anyone who raised his same concerns as actual traitors parroting Iraqi propaganda. Right as he was about the overall point, the stunt was a bad idea.

 

[JCX]

McCain visited the Syrian rebels a few years ago.

Didn't know Ken Bone was a Syrian Rebel.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Tulsi Gabbard sounds like Pussy Grabber.

 

[Rentahamster]

By the way, wouldn't it also be fair to include her direct thoughts on this trip?

https://medium.com/@TulsiGabbard/the-syrian-people-desperately-want-peace-e308f1777a34#.36g08bfkl

As much of Washington prepared for the inauguration of President Donald Trump, I spent last week on a fact-finding mission in Syria and Lebanon to see and hear directly from the Syrian people. Their lives have been consumed by a horrific war that has killed hundreds of thousands of Syrians and forced millions to flee their homeland in search of peace.
It is clear now more than ever: this regime change war does not serve America’s interest, and it certainly isn’t in the interest of the Syrian people.

Historically speaking, in the last 50 years, how many of our regime change interventions have resulted in a more positive country?

Their message to the American people was powerful and consistent: There is no difference between “moderate” rebels and al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same. This is a war between terrorists under the command of groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and the Syrian government. They cry out for the U.S. and other countries to stop supporting those who are destroying Syria and her people.

I heard this message over and over again from those who have suffered and survived unspeakable horrors. They asked that I share their voice with the world; frustrated voices which have not been heard due to the false, one-sided biased reports pushing a narrative that supports this regime change war at the expense of Syrian lives.

I heard testimony about how peaceful protests against the government that began in 2011 were quickly overtaken by Wahhabi jihadist groups like al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) who were funded and supported by Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, the United States, and others. They exploited the peaceful protesters, occupied their communities, and killed and tortured Syrians who would not cooperate with them in their fight to overthrow the government.

Although opposed to the Assad government, the political opposition spoke strongly about their adamant rejection of the use of violence to bring about reforms. They argue that if the Wahhabi jihadists, fueled by foreign governments, are successful in overthrowing the Syrian state, it would destroy Syria and its long history of a secular, pluralist society where people of all religions have lived peacefully side by side. Although this political opposition continues to seek reforms, they are adamant that as long as foreign governments wage a proxy regime change war against Syria using jihadist terrorist groups, they will stand with the Syrian state as they work peacefully toward a stronger Syria for all Syrians.

Originally, I had no intention of meeting with Assad, but when given the opportunity, I felt it was important to take it. I think we should be ready to meet with anyone if there’s a chance it can help bring about an end to this war, which is causing the Syrian people so much suffering.

I call upon Congress and the new Administration to answer the pleas of the Syrian people immediately and support the Stop Arming Terrorists Act. We must stop directly and indirectly supporting terrorists — directly by providing weapons, training and logistical support to rebel groups affiliated with al-Qaeda and ISIS; and indirectly through Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States, and Turkey, who, in turn, support these terrorist groups. We must end our war to overthrow the Syrian government and focus our attention on defeating al-Qaeda and ISIS.

 

[Trojita]

By the way, wouldn't it also be fair to include her direct thoughts on this trip?

http://i.imgur.com/fQE0KZI.jpg[IMG]

[url]https://medium.com/@TulsiGabbard/the-syrian-people-desperately-want-peace-e308f1777a34#.36g08bfkl[/url]



Historically speaking, in the last 50 years, how many of our regime change interventions have resulted in a more positive country?[/QUOTE]
All this does is confirm that she is a mouth piece for Assad.

Isis and Assad wouldn't attack each other and with Russia were going after the moderate Rebels. But now those Rebels were "al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same."'

She's saying the same Assad mouthpiece shit that woman from RT was saying.

 

[Alucrid]

SIMON: Let me follow up on this, Representative Gabbard. Are you really holding the Syrian rebels more responsible for the death and destruction in Aleppo, for example, than the Assad regime?

GABBARD: I'm simply being a realist about the situation - and that the people in Syria would be in a far worse situation if al-Qaida took charge and took over Syria than they were before this effort to overthrow this regime began.

SIMON: I mean, the Assad regime has used chemical weapons and has committed what a lot of people consider to be war crimes against its own people. You really think the Syrian rebels would be worse?

GABBARD: My statement stands. If those who are calling for the removal of this regime are, in essence, accepting the fact that al-Qaida would take over that country, whether it's al-Qaida or ISIS or other terrorist groups - and for people to think that that would somehow improve the lives of the people there in Syria or that it would somehow better secure the American people - I think that's a crazy notion.

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/10/50507...-introduces-bill-to-halt-u-s-arms-supplies-to

also googling Stop Arming Terrorists Act brings up some fun websites

 

[Xe4]

Then they should and I think they will if they can. Point stands that it's not because Assad but because of her big money ties.

It's cool to meet with a leader who is actively killing his people in some of the most horrific ways imaginable, and then whitewash his actions. The second you meet with the leader of a bank, however, you've obviously crossed a line.

 

[Trojita]

She's so transparent.

We just bombed 100 Al Qaeda fighters and a camp.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/world/middleeast/us-airstrike-al-qaeda-syria.html?_r=0

The whole thing is way more complicated than she is talking about and that conversation Alucrid posted of her is embarrassing.

 

[Chuckie]

Purity tests will be the death of the democratic party.

I've seen these 'purity tests' mentioned a couple of times now.

Can someone explain to a Dutchy what that means in this context?

Genuine question.

 

[MistakenMobius]

I've seen these 'purity tests' mentioned a couple of times now.

Can someone explain to a Dutchy what that means in this context?

Genuine question.

It's happens a lot in fringe political movement:

Checking how pure is someone regarding the belief.

Are u [insert ideology/faith here]?
Yes but are u supporting this?
Yes but are u supporting that?
No, then u are not a true [insert ideology/faith here]

 

[Alucrid]

I've seen these 'purity tests' mentioned a couple of times now.

Can someone explain to a Dutchy what that means in this context?

Genuine question.

it's a way to deflect criticism by saying that people are painting her in a bad light just because of one teeny tiny thing.

 

[Chairman Yang]

All this does is confirm that she is a mouth piece for Assad.

Isis and Assad wouldn't attack each other and with Russia were going after the moderate Rebels. But now those Rebels were "al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same."'

She's saying the same Assad mouthpiece shit that woman from RT was saying.

She's so transparent.

We just bombed 100 Al Qaeda fighters and a camp.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/world/middleeast/us-airstrike-al-qaeda-syria.html?_r=0

The whole thing is way more complicated than she is talking about and that conversation Alucrid posted of her is embarrassing.

So, uh...which part of what she's saying is wrong? Repeating that she's an "Assad mouthpiece" doesn't actually tell us anything on its own.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Bassam Khawam, the executive director of AACCESS who traveled with Gabbard, reportedly belongs to pro-Assad Lebanese political party the Syrian Social Nationalist party (SSNP). The party has dispatched its members to fight on behalf of the Assad regime during the nearly six-year war.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/tulsi-gabbard-bashar-al-assad-syria-democrats

Hmm, how blatant could they actually make the connection though? I me-

Hmm, the "Social Nationalists" party that represents itself with a reversed Swastika and the party started in 1932.....

The party also attempted to commit a terror attack in the United States.

Three men arrested last October as they tried to bring a bomb into the United States are members of a Lebanon-based terrorist group and were planning an attack in America, law-enforcement officials said today.

Some officials said they believed the three men, arrested as they entered Vermont from Canada, intended to carry out a car bomb assassination, possibly in New York City, as part of a factional dispute within a group known as the Syrian Social Nationalist Party. A Justice Department spokesman said the arrests appeared to be the first in the United States in connection with the violence in Beirut.

A senior official of the Federal Bureau of Investigation said the Syrian Social Nationalist Party was responsible for a variety of terrorist acts in the Middle East, including the 1982 assassination of the Lebanese President-elect, Bashir Gemayel.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/18/world/us-links-men-in-bomb-case-to-lebanon-terrorist-group.html

Someone in Hawaii please run against this woman.

 

[Alucrid]

maybe these are the facts she was trying to find

 

[parrotbeak]

Someone in Hawaii please run against this woman.

Someone did:
This Hawaiian Republican Is the Most Racist Candidate of 2016

 

[legacyzero]

Between this and her slamming of Islam, this is really looking horrrrrrible.

 

[Skyzard]

Title is inaccurate.

 

[LucidMomentum]

Title is inaccurate.

How so?