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TUPBftU #3: Kenshiro vs Darth Vader

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+1 Kenshiro
Considering ki/aura control the same value as Midi-chlorian force, I believe Kenshiro would be able to withstand the force, and in a close combat defeat Vader due to his frailness.
But in the Star Wars mythology there are even stronger jedi/siths that could probably hand Kenshiro ass.

Anyway thanks for the mention Timedog, you proved my time making that grounded worthy, I guess.
 
Vader was pretty free in Soulcalibur 4

Somebody posted a Youtube video where Kenshiro made somebody's head explode by getting hit

Kenshiro +1
 
Actually, now that I think back on it, Darth Vader's not all that strong at all, actually. He wouldn't stand a chance against Rei, for example, and Souther would compact him into a new brick for his pyramid. In fact, I'd wager that poor Anakin would struggle against any of the Nanto Seiken masters - yes, even Shuu (the blind one).

The only Hokuto Shinken master Vader would stand a chance against is Jagi, and even that's a close call. Toki would rip him a new one, and don't even get me started on Raoh.
 
Big One said:
1. Vader never fought Yoda. If he did then he'd clearly lose

2. Vader restrains himself from clean kills when fighting other Force-users. Vader may be evil, but he's still honorable.
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It seems fine to use Palpatine as a surrogate for Vader since Palpatine at the time of the battle was far superior to robo-Anakin.

Palpatine was said to be a better swordsman and stronger with the force than Darth Vader at the time that battle took place. Also, Palpatine could use force lightning, which Vader can't do.
 
+1 Kenshiro, especially if he's hiding in a hay bale

Vader before the prequels neutered his character would have been a much harder decision, although alternately Vader circa Gennedy Clone Wars tried their best to repair that damage.

Kenshiro vs Guts would have been a more interesting fight.
 
Lance Bone Path said:
It seems fine to use Palpatine as a surrogate for Vader since Palpatine at the time of the battle was far superior to robo-Anakin.

Palpatine was said to be a better swordsman and stronger with the force than Darth Vader at the time that battle took place. Also, Palpatine could use force lightning, which Vader can't do.
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Yeah, if it was Palpatine vs Kenshiro, that would be a much more even fight.

Raoh would probably still beat him. though
as long as he wasn't in Final Battle Self Sacrifice Mode
.
 
Lance Bone Path said:
It seems fine to use Palpatine as a surrogate for Vader since Palpatine at the time of the battle was far superior to robo-Anakin.

Palpatine was said to be a better swordsman and stronger with the force than Darth Vader at the time that battle took place. Also, Palpatine could use force lightning, which Vader can't do.
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What does Palpatine have to do with anything? He won the fight between him and Yoda...just Yoda escaped. Yoda is more than able to beat Vader, however.

Kenshiro doesn't have any resistance to physical force. Multiple times people literally grabbed him to keep him still, so I don't see why the Force wouldn't be able to do the same only to a much greater effect since Kenshiro wouldn't be able to get near to any Jedi.
 
Big One said:
What does Palpatine have to do with anything? He won the fight between him and Yoda...just Yoda escaped. Yoda is more than able to beat Vader, however.

Kenshiro doesn't have any resistance to physical force. Multiple times people literally grabbed him to keep him still, so I don't see why the Force wouldn't be able to do the same only to a much greater effect since Kenshiro wouldn't be able to get near to any Jedi.
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Those other guys are strong as well. He can walk through a building bro, how many times I gotta say it. Here, I'll show you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwkveulfDz4&t=1m14s
 
Big One said:
I've read the entire manga, so...

No, it doesn't matter how strong Kenshiro is. He wouldn't get a chance to use his strength.
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So you're saying Vader's force choke has enough strength to break something that can crumble skyscrapers. Yeah, no.
 
+1 Kenshiro. The armor mentioned above is interesting, and might lead to Darth Vader putting up a good fight, but he doesn't really have much in his arsenal that can kill Kenshiro. Kenshiro's fended off psychic attacks before, usually pretty easily. Given the magical will bullshit he can pull, a force choke probably won't hold him. With the light saber, Kenshiro's exponentially faster than Vader, disarming him wouldn't even be fun, let alone hard. From there, it's a lightsaber through the face, or a removal of Vader's helmet. Vader's head is still human, and that's all Kenshiro needs to make him explode. Omae wa moo, shindearu.
 
msv said:
So you're saying Vader's force choke has enough strength to break something that can crumble skyscrapers. Yeah, no.
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The Apprentice isn't more powerful than Vader, and he used the Force to crash an entire Star Destroyer from the sky to the ground. But even if you ignore that bit of canon and stick to the movies, all Vader would have to do is immobialize Kenshiro with the Force if he was trying to kill him. Whether that involves literally paralyzing him quickly then cutting him in half with a lightsaber, or just suffocating him to death through a force choke, Vader is more than capable of doing things like that. Matter of fact tricks like that are rudimentary at best.
 
Big One said:
The Apprentice isn't more powerful than Vader, and he used the Force to crash an entire Star Destroyer from the sky to the ground. But even if you ignore that bit of canon and stick to the movies, all Vader would have to do is immobialize Kenshiro with the Force if he was trying to kill him. Whether that involves literally paralyzing him quickly then cutting him in half with a lightsaber, or just suffocating him to death through a force choke, Vader is more than capable of doing things like that. Matter of fact tricks like that are rudimentary at best.
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For one, that's completely out of character for Vader. Two, given only the movies (I know nothing of all the other fan made stories), Vader doesn't have enough power for that. Since when does Vader have enough mind control to do that stuff to someone who's capable of battling it.
 
Big One said:
The Apprentice isn't more powerful than Vader, and he used the Force to crash an entire Star Destroyer from the sky to the ground. But even if you ignore that bit of canon and stick to the movies, all Vader would have to do is immobialize Kenshiro with the Force if he was trying to kill him. Whether that involves literally paralyzing him quickly then cutting him in half with a lightsaber, or just suffocating him to death through a force choke, Vader is more than capable of doing things like that. Matter of fact tricks like that are rudimentary at best.
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Kenshiro fought a master who could bend time and space and did so to immobilize him.

Kenshiro still won.
 
msv said:
For one, that's completely out of character for Vader. Two, given only the movies (I know nothing of all the other fan made stories), Vader doesn't have enough power for that. Since when does Vader have enough mind control to do that stuff to someone who's capable of battling it.
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It's not out of character for Vader. In fact he force-choked someone who was essentially mocking his religion. What would be out of character is if Vader did that to Luke or Obi-wan since, like I said, he's honorable.

Kenshiro isn't invincible, and has been hurt many different times pretty badly just by physical force alone. Pretty much anyone who uses long range attacks on a normal basis would be able to kill him with ease. A stormtrooper with a laser gun could kill him if it hits (but a normal gun wouldn't work). However if this was a fist-fight then Vader would be screwed, but even then Vader still has a lighsaber which would damage Kenshiro considerably on a physical level.
 
+1 Vader

A) Mind Trick
B) Telekinesis - the entire terrain around them would be Vader's weapon.
C) Lightsaber
 
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probably go down something like this
 
Big One said:
It's not out of character for Vader. In fact he force-choked someone who was essentially mocking his religion. What would be out of character is if Vader did that to Luke or Obi-wan since, like I said, he's honorable.

Kenshiro isn't invincible, and has been hurt many different times pretty badly just by physical force alone. Pretty much anyone who uses long range attacks on a normal basis would be able to kill him with ease. A stormtrooper with a laser gun could kill him if it hits (but a normal gun wouldn't work). However if this was a fist-fight then Vader would be screwed, but even then Vader still has a lighsaber which would damage Kenshiro considerably on a physical level.
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What, Kenshiro can easily dodge anything that Vader can bring, Vader's lightsaber skills and movement are on a human level, he can't move as fast as him. I don't see how long range attacks like that come in play in a 1on1 fight. And the physical force was mostly done to him by other people who are also freakishly strong.
 
msv said:
What, Kenshiro can easily dodge anything that Vader can bring, Vader's lightsaber skills and movement are on a human level, he can't move as fast as him. I don't see how long range attacks like that come in play in a 1on1 fight. And the physical force was mostly done to him by other people who are also freakishly strong.
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Then Vader would just use the Force on Kenshiro then. Kenshiro can't combat that whatsoever.

Also Kenshiro's movements are also on a human level, they're just really fucking fast.
 
Big One said:
Then Vader would just use the Force on Kenshiro then. Kenshiro can't combat that whatsoever.

Also Kenshiro's movements are also on a human level, they're just really fucking fast.
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Why would he not be able to battle the force? If you're gonna talk like ki won't work on the force, then I could just as well say that Kenshiro can destroy Vader with his ki. And really fuckin fast means that they're inhuman in this case.
 
msv said:
Why would he not be able to battle the force? If you're gonna talk like ki won't work on the force, then I could just as well say that Kenshiro can destroy Vader with his ki. And really fuckin fast means that they're inhuman in this case.
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Kenshiro's ki powers aren't like what you think. He can't just send a ki blast DBZ style or anything of that sort. The Force is very much like the DBZ style in the sense that you're sending long-range waves towards the opposing opponent. Kenshiro in practice is all about close-range combat, so combating someone like Vader would be impossible if Vader went all out on him.
 
Despite my avatar, this is pretty tough for me. Vader is one of my favorite villains of all time, but Ken is one of my favorite heroes. I mean, you can't sell either of them short. It depends on how close Ken can get. Flinging object at Ken wouldn't work, since Ken could either dodge, deflect, or break just about anything Vader can throw at him. I could see force choke being an issue, but Ken is not going to go down as easily as Vader's subordinates, and could potentially break out of it with Tenryu Kokyuho. From there, it's force awareness vs. lightning reflexes.

It would be a sweet fight either way. +1 Kenshiro (I blame Hayden Christensen)
 
Big One said:
Kenshiro's ki powers aren't like what you think. He can't just send a ki blast DBZ style or anything of that sort. The Force is very much like the DBZ style in the sense that you're sending long-range waves towards the opposing opponent. Kenshiro in practice is all about close-range combat, so combating someone like Vader would be impossible if Vader went all out on him.
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About that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zum-OTgk9P0
DBZ style long-range wave at 2:49. I don't expect it to change your mind. Just fyi.
 
Vader would get destroyed. I don't think a force choke would even work against someone who can control their own physiology like Kenshiro. It's like, congrats, you crushed his larynx, now he's stuck his thumb in his neck and enabled breathing through his feet. And he's pissed.

Kenshiro wins messily.
 
Big One said:
Kenshiro's ki powers aren't like what you think. He can't just send a ki blast DBZ style or anything of that sort. The Force is very much like the DBZ style in the sense that you're sending long-range waves towards the opposing opponent. Kenshiro in practice is all about close-range combat, so combating someone like Vader would be impossible if Vader went all out on him.
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He can power up and send out huge shockwaves, so yeah, it does work like that.
 
tough call, depends on how well vaders suit stands up to trauma i guess.

vader +1 because he doesnt have many pressure points left.
 
Big One said:
Kenshiro doesn't have any resistance to physical force. Multiple times people literally grabbed him to keep him still, so I don't see why the Force wouldn't be able to do the same only to a much greater effect since Kenshiro wouldn't be able to get near to any Jedi.
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I wouldn't be too sure about that. Skip to the second half of the video.

meltingparappa said:
Kenshiro vs Guts would have been a more interesting fight.
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No kidding.
 
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