FairXchange
Member
I don't see a need for outrage. Most gaming journo's don't exactly make a lot of money, I won't condemn them for the few perks they get on the job.
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Ubisoft gave journalists a free Nexus 7 at a Watchdogs Preview event.
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
The problem is, Jason is not an unbiased source. Therein lies the contradiction and hypocrisy, because the core of journalism is built upon providing an objective view. It's great and all to get an "insider" perspective but Jason's view on the matter is so transparently rooted in the fact that he himself is involved with those under indictment. That's not to say he's guilty, just that he's involved and that his posts on such matters always seem to be an attempt to exonerate himself from the drama. I find that petty and, frankly, a poor representation of how journalists should compose themselves.
Now I'm not sure if this was the same connection that troushers was talking about but i found this to be equally interesting in regards to what he posted:
And i found the image:
Ugh.
APZonerunner
Member
I have to speak up here and say that I've both seen and heard of similar stuff on both sides of the pond, to be honest. I've never seen it be very different at all. Kotaku may well have better practices - some sites do, and that's great - but the vast majority are taking whatever backhands they can, from smaller sites getting stars in their eyes the first time they get a game a week early and without paying a cent through to, say, massive organizations accepting giant statues of characters from a major hit game - or even arcade machines - from the publisher to put in their office.
RE the 'free PS3 stuff', it was a competition at a party - an awards ceremony geared towards giving out accolades to the best writers (oh, the irony). One of the sponsors, Defiance, IIRC, left cards on tables asking people in attendance to tweet about the event with a #GMADefiance hashtag. If they tweeted, they'd be entered into a draw for a PS3, and they were giving two or three of them away, I think. The competition itself wasn't all that bad, though the sponsored hashtag thing was a bit silly. Those who got involved weren't evil or taking backhanders, but were just misguided in not really thinking about what they were doing before picking up their phone and tweeting what was on the stupid card left on their table without thinking about what kind of message it sent. To their credit, at least two of the winners either gave the machines away or donated them to charity and apologized.
It's still pretty gross, but my point is that this sort of weird competition stuff is a completely different kettle of fish from journalists just being handed a free phone worth a couple hundred. That's another level of awful.
There is a question about where you draw the line, and I'm curious what GAF thinks on it. Do you accept an all expenses-paid trip for a preview if your publication otherwise couldn't afford it and thus wouldn't have that content? If you do, if they then take you out for dinner, do you accept them paying for the dinner? Do you accept a drink in a bar? If the game is sent with an elaborate press kit, do you accept that, or reject it and either give it away or send it back sans game disc? Yadda yadda. I think one thing that is absolute is that you shouldn't accept something like a free phone which is completely unrelated. That's just bullshit. I've seen varying levels of acceptance at events, though, especially in recent years. I see some journalists from some sites now carry a packed lunch to events, refusing to even touch complimentary coffee and snacks that are left out to hit between interviews & presentations... and then I see others who are like free-stuff-vultures. So there's a great range of attitudes to this stuff.
SlowRevolution
Member
any way to know who else went to this event?
if they went they should probably be rushing to say "we turned down the Nexus 7 because it's inappropriate." No "we accepted it, but it's just swag, it won't influence us, we'll get rid of it later we promise" bullshit.
You should look into it more if you're not busy with other stories. Seems like it would be easier for you or someone else in your profession to do that, you're the ones with the connections.
if they went they should probably be rushing to say "we turned down the Nexus 7 because it's inappropriate." No "we accepted it, but it's just swag, it won't influence us, we'll get rid of it later we promise" bullshit.
You should look into it more if you're not busy with other stories. Seems like it would be easier for you or someone else in your profession to do that, you're the ones with the connections.
Typically when he does it's not so much defensive as trying to provide either an alternate point of view or an attempt at some rationality to a discussion like this. GAF has a lot of different members and points of view, some of which are more quick to jump to a conclusion than others.
I don't think it's out of line for him to ask for folks to maybe take a moment wait to see who accepted the tablets, since there are a few less professional youtubers and so forth, or to see exactly what some did with them. I don't see an issue with impartiality for example if a website takes it to donate to charity. They're taking a cheap marketing tactic and doing something positive with it. Or an independent review site who might not own a tablet and be able to access some game features otherwise(so long as they put that in the review of course).
I don't see it as insecure to make that attempt, many attacks against the profession are ones made out of ignorance to reality of it.
That's the whole point. It's not an outright bribe but there are very real and measurable psychological influences at play when something like this happens. It's not the difference between a 2/10 and 9.5/10, sure, but it is relevant.
You probably wrote a bad review for a Ubisoft game in the past.
reptilescorpio
Member
Watch Dogs keepin the little Dawg down, how are you going to use the companion app now
Was it looking good? What's the embargo on the details?
Their jobs are relatively cushy, if they need more money they should get a second job, rather than accept subtle bribes. Anyway, what does anyone need a Nexus 7 for? It's American extravagance and greed at its most insipid.
I get your point, its just not as cut and dry as people like yourself would like to make out. You are outright calling it a bribe? As if Ubisoft asked for a particular score or even a range of scores in order for them to accept these 'gifts'.
CambriaRising
Member
It's not the jobs of forum posters to investigate the gaming industry, nor do they have the means to do so.
Well put.
Nicely said and I agree wholeheartedly.
Lasthope106
Member
They don't make a lot of money because it's not a real job. Yeah I said it.
First of all there is no such thing as game journalism. There is journalism period. Some, very few people actually report on games. The rest of what GAF calls game journalists are an extension of the publishers' PR departments.
I'm not shocked about what is doing Ubilol.i'm more shocked about people here in GAF saying is normal
Now is the time to rewatch his Halo 4 review for IGN. It's one the worst things I've ever seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNoSEj1k9V0
coughlanio
Member
I presume Ubisoft probably also paid for flights and hotel stay for alot of these journalists?
Well, NeoGAF is basically game journalism journalism.
I've done much the same - for development - in the "questions about game development" thread, I don't think it's unreasonable to get a perspective from within on the subject. It's absolutely up to the reader to determine how much honesty they want to read into said statements, but that doesn't mean we should decry the fact that said statements *exist*.
(Mind you, the "European" mention did rankle a bit, but I'm still happy to hear his views)
dragonbane
Member
Yeah, but no opinion in this thread is really unbiased. He is just adding his own to the pile. We don't even know how many anonymous journalists might be posting in this thread right now. You can take what he says however you want, I don't think he tries to speak with authority here and force people to believe him. You chose not to trust what he says and that's fine. Everyone else can decide for themselves. He is not ruining this discussion or affecting it negatively in any way whatsoever.
These happenings do and will continue to create doubt and controversy around gaming "journalism" and review scores.
These happenings are not news unfortunately, been happening for years ....... both sides of the Atlantic (no matter what jschreier thinks, remember free Xbox 360 slims at E3 for example).
Gaming "journalism" / critique will continue to have doubts surrounding it.
These happenings are not news unfortunately, been happening for years ....... both sides of the Atlantic (no matter what jschreier thinks, remember free Xbox 360 slims at E3 for example).
Gaming "journalism" / critique will continue to have doubts surrounding it.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
There's an interesting blog about it here. (This guy is giving his to charity.)
http://www.totalxbox.com/75142/blog...ound200-tablet-at-a-watch-dogs-preview-event/
http://www.totalxbox.com/75142/blog...ound200-tablet-at-a-watch-dogs-preview-event/
Bribe
"Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct."
Seems like a bribe to me.
Ban Puncher
Member
I remember going to Atari's office and being plied with booze and tiny sandwiches before being shown Driver 3 before release. I fell asleep during the presentation and apparently snored loudly. They paid for my taxi home.
I still told people that game sucked ass.
I still told people that game sucked ass.
Happens all the time on neogaf though with news worthy results.
I find trying to convince a bunch of ignorant masses on a message board your profession isn't as bad as they think to be pretty insecure. What I mean by that is there are much better ways to try and cure people of their ignorance. Ironically, he works within a medium with that very sole purpose!
If he really wants to just "add to the pile," then he too should be anonymous. Jason isn't equal to average Joe or Sue Gaffer, he works within the industry and is very forthcoming about his own industry connections.
... so... Watch Dogs?
Nah it's like the Supreme court said : you need to have both parties agree on intent and the money must be actual money with a big cash sign on it
chickdigger802
Banned
if it was a bribe... seems kinda meh for a bribe. Are there any hipster journalists that don't have a tablet of any sort?
Wait does watch_dogs have any second screen stuff like ac4? I did kinda enjoy doing kenway's fleet stuff at work.
Wait does watch_dogs have any second screen stuff like ac4? I did kinda enjoy doing kenway's fleet stuff at work.
CambriaRising
Member
My point was that we shouldn't have to do it, and it is unreasonable to expect it.
What does any of that have to do with America? A French company gave away a Korean company's product at an event in France.
Very well put. Ubisoft isn't giving out $200 devices out of the goodness of their heart. It's an investment. You'd be naive to think otherwise.
Official Xbox Magazine UK's Jon Hicks says the mints were eaten.
https://twitter.com/MrJonty/status/456001637342281728
Disclosure. With humor. I like it!
Just make sure to add that to the review (if the same guy is reviewing it) and its kosher. Well not kosher for ubi or the general practice. But this is the state of the industry, and disclosure is the best limiting factor we have.
Ah the power of suggestion and the tricks it plays on the subconscious mind at work again I see. Reading reviews of Watch_Dogs after this could be quite funny. That and any twitter posts saying they declined Ubisofts offer and they aren't effected by marketing hahahahahahahaha.
I agree.. I also saw Total Biscuit tweet about the whole thing, saying that he even turned down more expensive things than that. He failed to mention that he probably earns way more money than the average games journo..
I don't know. Maybe I'm agreeing because I'd surely take the gift as well if I were in the position of those journalists -- if its not bound to any conditions that'd influence my review that is. (I know that it would probably still somehow influence me subconsciously)
Honestly, this is a bad move on ubi's part. I mean, giving things away at preview events is nothing new in the industry, but there is so much distrust and cynicism directed towards this game that this is essentially more fuel to that fire.
And now they have created an air of distrust now since they gave tablets, and people will assume it was intended as a bribe.
Especially since we are still parodying "DEW N DORITOS".
This doesn't seem cynical on ubi's part, just clueless.
And now they have created an air of distrust now since they gave tablets, and people will assume it was intended as a bribe.
Especially since we are still parodying "DEW N DORITOS".
This doesn't seem cynical on ubi's part, just clueless.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I'm not sure if this is as bad as it seems but the narrative on the situation is already set.
Free stuff is handed out across many industries.
I'm not saying the industry is free from foul play but this hurts WD as a game since this the title with the biggest push from Ubisoft at the moment.
Free stuff is handed out across many industries.
I'm not saying the industry is free from foul play but this hurts WD as a game since this the title with the biggest push from Ubisoft at the moment.
OK lol @ the guy who's really mad about me posting here.
Anyway, I think this is an unquestionably gross practice, but as this thread goes on, it seems like many of the professional UK reporters have come out saying they didn't actually take the tablets. I think anyone reading this thread needs to be more responsible about playing the "lol game journalism" card when it might have very well turned out that most of the professional game journalists did the right thing here.
Nothing against hobbyists and youtubers, but if you expect people who do this for fun to hold themselves to the same standard as professional reporters, you're gonna have a bad time.
Anyway, I think this is an unquestionably gross practice, but as this thread goes on, it seems like many of the professional UK reporters have come out saying they didn't actually take the tablets. I think anyone reading this thread needs to be more responsible about playing the "lol game journalism" card when it might have very well turned out that most of the professional game journalists did the right thing here.
Nothing against hobbyists and youtubers, but if you expect people who do this for fun to hold themselves to the same standard as professional reporters, you're gonna have a bad time.
dragonbane
Member
Perhaps he should, but I don't see how it matters here. I'm sure everyone in this thread is intelligent enough to decide for themselves what to do with his words. He is certainly not trying to trick people into believing him.