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[ss1]

In Scotland we will have to see the impact of Brexit before the SNP can call a second referendum. Until there is some visible material negative impact there is not point in calling one.

 

[Jackpot]

I asked these questions last time independence was raised and didn't get any answers:

What currency will Scotland use?

How will they make up the £12 billion shortfall in tax?

How much will no longer being in the Union impact Scotland's exports, given that 70% of it currently goes to the rUK?

How long will it take them to join the EU? Will they have to adopt the euro?

Was Remain for EU, and am Remain for Scotland.

Call woman a cunt.
Describe her followers as bigots.

Logic!

mmm, people do that to May all the time in this thread (which I've publicly decried and will do the same for people doing it to Sturgeon)

 

[Dead Man]

Call woman a cunt.
Describe her followers as bigots.

Logic!

For fucks sake.

 

[King_Moc]

I don't read the Daily Mail.

I was watching that twat Corbyn being the IRA's man on the mainland before you were born.

You can attempt to re-write history and deny his role all you want..but I was there.

Being there at the time just makes you biased. Younger people that look at the era now see it as being nuanced, with both sides being dickheads.

 

[Audioboxer]

It does make sense for Sturgeon to roll back on the 2nd ref intensity right now, for *exactly* the same reason the Lib Dems should do the same for their own 2nd ref. Too divisive, too many people thinking "I would vote remain/yes in another referendum but I don't think we should have one now".

The mistake was saying to propose it just before Brexit is concluded. Even although that would still mean knowing 90%+ of the outcome, the "optics" of saying an indyref2 vote prior to Brexit being fully concluded had people perceive the vote as being too early. As Sturgeon has had to say here, the reasonable way to approach this is allowing the whole of Brexit to conclude and then CONSIDERING the outcome. Is it good? Is it bad? What are the consequences? What is the final proposal to a bad Brexit deal for Scotland? Just shrugging of the shoulders and saying YOLO lets get on with this? How about the rest of the Scottish parties actually try to show they care about fighting for a soft-Brexit/single market, etc? Notably Dugdale and Scottish Labour. Nah, they just focus on indyref2. Brexit? Oh no, the real fear here is a proposal of a vote for independence.

Ultimately though, a snap election before Brexit even begins with 7 weeks of anti-indyref2 marketing ended up seriously hurting the SNP. As I said before luckily England decided to bail Scotland out and hand May a hung parliament.

People need to see what Brexit is going to actually hand the country, and they need to see the theatre of Tory negotiation skills. May's DUP deal has already FURTHER trashed her and her parties popularity across the UK.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Call woman a cunt.
Describe her followers as bigots.

Logic!

When will people understand that men are probably called the C word and/or call other men the C word on a much larger scale than women in the UK because it doesn't really have the same gendered meaning here?

A builder will hit his thumb with a hammer and shout "argh you CUNT". A man will probably call his friends cunts a million times in his life and never use it towards a woman. Only time I've heard the C word used as an insult specifically for women in the UK was when I watched "Grease" in school.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner.

 

[Jackpot]

Being there at the time just makes you biased.

Come on now, you can't say that anyone's views on NI who was an adult before 1998 are no longer valid.

Whilst extreme cases (see Mitchell and Webb) do make some people biased, in the vast majority of cases having direct experience of a subject is a benefit. You lose so much detail if you learn of something by reading a few articles on the web.

 

[Hazzuh]

Still haven't heard any of the people intent on whitewashing Corbyn's history with the IRA explain how him opposing the Anglo-Irish agreement helped lead to peace in any way.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The only good thing to come out of the whole GE shambles was seeing that divisive, toxic little cunt and her minions of bigots put back in their box.

It was nice to see May and the Tories have their nose bloodied.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

When will people understand that men are probably called the C word and/or call other men the C word on a much larger scale than women in the UK because it doesn't really have the same gendered meaning here?

A builder will hit his thumb with a hammer and shout "argh you CUNT". A man will probably call his friends cunts a million times in his life and never use it towards a woman. Only time I've heard the C word used as an insult specifically for women in the UK was when I watched "Grease" in school.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner.

Cunt has a gendered meaning anywhere? Seriously confused. The person I hear use the word cunt more than anyone is my mum and she basically only ever uses it at inanimate objects and the village drunk.

It's about as meaningful as calling someone a dick.

 

[D4Danger]

Still haven't heard any of the people intent on whitewashing Corbyn's history with the IRA explain how him opposing the Anglo-Irish agreement helped lead to peace in any way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/220053.stm

Lady Thatcher has said Enoch Powell was right to oppose the Anglo-Irish Agreement, which gave Dublin a formal say in the running of Northern Ireland for the first time.

In a review for the Daily Telegraph newspaper of a biography of Enoch Powell, the former prime minister reveals her regret over the deal she signed with Garrett FitzGerald, the then Irish prime minister, at Hillsborough in 1985.

Ulster Unionists condemned the agreement at the time as a betrayal and the first step towards a united Ireland

 

[Miles Quaritch]

When will people understand that men are probably called the C word and/or call other men the C word on a much larger scale than women in the UK because it doesn't really have the same gendered meaning here?

A builder will hit his thumb with a hammer and shout "argh you CUNT". A man will probably call his friends cunts a million times in his life and never use it towards a woman. Only time I've heard the C word used as an insult specifically for women in the UK was when I watched "Grease" in school.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner.

Look at this cunt, cuntsplainin'

 

[King_Moc]

Come on now, you can't say that anyone's views on NI who was an adult before 1998 are no longer valid.

Whilst extreme cases (see Mitchell and Webb) do make some people biased, in the vast majority of cases having direct experience of a subject is a benefit. You lose so much detail if you learn of something by reading a few articles on the web.

I mean, I was exaggerating (and only referring to that one poster), but ok, yes.

 

[jem0208]

Call woman a cunt.
Describe her followers as bigots.

Logic!

Calling a woman a cunt isn't bigoted.

Anyone can be a cunt.

 

[Pandy]

The SG/Sturgeon has changed absolutely nothing, except that instead of getting the legislation sorted out nice and early (which was a perfectly sensible idea pre-Brexit negotiations and before May called a GE) they'll now attempt to rush through the legislation nearer the time.

This speech was aimed at the people who didn't understand what was originally proposed, often due to misleading headlines in the media, and thought 'now is not the time' had any bearing on the reality of the situation.

Still, good to see it's working from a few of the responses here.

 

[hohoXD123]

No, what's rich is seeing the millennial meat-heads cry about a Conservative - DUP deal when they wanted an IRA lackey to be the PM.

I guess only one side of Northern Irish politics is unacceptable to the left.

What's rich is seeing the melennial meat-heads cry about Corbyn having tea with Gerry Adams when the Conservatives bribed the DUP and shat away any hope of neutrality in the GFA to stay in power

 

[PizzaFace]

Call woman a cunt.
Describe her followers as bigots.

Logic!

This isn't America, there's really no gender connotation here

 

[Theonik]

Deep down inside we're all a bunch of cunts.

 

[King_Moc]

Cunt has a gendered meaning anywhere? Seriously confused. The person I hear use the word cunt more than anyone is my mum and she basically only ever uses it at inanimate objects and the village drunk.

It's about as meaningful as calling someone a dick.

In America, apparently. Jim Jefferies is on a one mam mission to correct this. It's a great expletive.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No, what's rich is seeing the millennial meat-heads cry about a Conservative - DUP deal when they wanted an IRA lackey to be the PM.

I guess only one side of Northern Irish politics is unacceptable to the left.

Conservative rage is always a treat.

As impotent as it is hilarious!

 

[Audioboxer]

When will people understand that men are probably called the C word and/or call other men the C word on a much larger scale than women in the UK because it doesn't really have the same gendered meaning here?

A builder will hit his thumb with a hammer and shout "argh you CUNT". A man will probably call his friends cunts a million times in his life and never use it towards a woman. Only time I've heard the C word used as an insult specifically for women in the UK was when I watched "Grease" in school.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner.

Nah, it's "fine". Cunt is used routinely in the UK as a strong descriptor to describe someone you seriously disagree with/is an idiot/etc. However, it usually is reserved for when seriously ill or malicious things are done or said by a person first. Simply calling Sturgeon a little cunt because she opposes Brexit and supports a vote for indyref2 as a possible answer to Brexit can be a little vicious. Some of the big Tory figures get called cunts because they have dubious voting histories, say horrible things about the poor/disabled and often show contempt for anyone who isn't them/their party. Your Boris Johnsons, Goves, IDS's etc.

Therefore, I think the head turning sometimes happens when cunt is used to describe someone you might not think has "done enough" to be called a cunt. One thing I will say as a gendered insult it really has lost 99% of that weight in the UK. Still, for understandable reasons many still feel uncomfortable calling a woman a cunt, and yes, that even extends to people with records like May.

The SG/Sturgeon has changed absolutely nothing, except that instead of getting the legislation sorted out nice and early (which was a perfectly sensible idea pre-Brexit negotiations and before May called a GE) they'll now attempt to rush through the legislation nearer the time.

This speech was aimed at the people who didn't understand what was originally proposed, often due to misleading headlines in the media, and thought 'now is not the time' had any bearing on the reality of the situation.

Still, good to see it's working from a few of the responses here.

Pretty much, but so is the response needed when a snap election is fought based upon whipping people into a frenzy to think indyref2 was happening imminently. It was always proposed as a counter-measure, but now it's simply been resealed as something that will be considered depending on how Brexit goes. Sturgeon asked the rest of the Scottish MPs to fight against a hard Brexit/for the single market, but one policy Ruth will now still deflect from May's wrecking ball and obsess over indyref2 again. Dugdale will just remain in her shadows leaving it up to Corbyn to truly challenge May on Brexit.

 

[hohoXD123]

Deep down inside we're all a bunch of cunts.

I mean, we all came from cunts, so everyone is a cunt.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

In America, apparently. Jim Jefferies is on a one mam mission to correct this. It's a great expletive.

Oh I kinda get why Jim gets a lot of stick over there now then. Well if anyone can correct the use of cunt over there it's an angry Australian.

Seriously though, way to take one of the greatest words in the English language and ruin it for yourselves guys XD

 

[Pandy]

It was always proposed as a counter-measure, but now it's simply been resealed as something that will be considered depending on how Brexit goes.

No, listen to it again.

There's no ifs or buts in the statement related to the timing. An indy ref will be called for at the end of the Brexit negotiations when it is clear what the outcome has been. Not depending on the outcome, but when the outcome is known. Likely Autumn 2018 unless the timetable for negotiations changes, which is exactly the same as it was before.

The only way that statement puts the Indy Ref back in the box is if Brexit goes away altogether, which would have been the case already anyway.

 

[Audioboxer]

No, listen to it again.

There's no ifs or buts in the statement related to the timing. An indy ref will be called for at the end of the Brexit negotiations when it is clear what the outcome has been. Not depending on the outcome, but when the outcome is known. Likely Autumn 2018 unless the timetable for negotiations changes, which is exactly the same as it was before.

The only way that statement puts the Indy Ref back in the box is if Brexit goes away altogether, which would have been the case already anyway.

Yes and no. It's very carefully worded and sure, many parts are openly honest about how the SNP supports independence. There are however words to suggest revisiting it with scepticism afterwards, depending on how Brexit goes.

And at the end of this period of negotiation with the EU - likely to be around next autumn - when the terms of Brexit will be clearer, we will come back to Parliament to set out our judgment on the way forward, including our view on the precise timescale of offering people a choice over the country's future.

Some just want a break from the pressure of big political decisions.

They agree that our future should not be imposed on us, but feel that it is too soon right now to make a firm decision about the precise timing of a referendum.

They want greater clarity about Brexit to emerge first - and they want to be able to measure that up against clarity about the options Scotland would have for securing a different relationship with Europe.

And, in the meantime, whatever their scepticism about the likely outcome of the negotiations, they want the Scottish Government to try as hard as we possibly can to secure Scotland's position.

We remain committed - strongly - to the principle of giving Scotland a choice at the end of this process.

But to reassure people that they will not be asked to make this choice now - or in the immediate future - but only at the end of the process when greater clarity has emerged, I am confirming today that the Scottish Government will reset the plan I set out on March 13th.

We will not seek to introduce legislation for an independence referendum immediately.

Instead, we will - in good faith - redouble our efforts and put our shoulder to the wheel in seeking to influence the Brexit talks in a way that protects Scotland's interests.

We will seek to build maximum support around the proposals set out in the paper that we published in December - Scotland's Place in Europe - to keep us in the single market, with substantial new powers for this parliament, and do everything we can to influence the UK in that direction.

The Scottish Government will stand the best chance of positively influencing the Brexit outcome if we are at the table - with the full backing of our national Parliament - arguing for the sensible option of staying in the single market.

So join us now, with no equivocation - back the demands for the democratically elected Scottish Government to be at the table, able to influence the UK's negotiating strategy, and for Scotland and the UK to stay in the single market.

https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon..._s_future?mc_cid=4c78e04ffe&mc_eid=ca19d73f8c

Put it this way IF Brexit wasn't the shitshow many think it will be it WOULD put a huge spanner in the works for indyref2. If the rest of the Scottish MPs actually gave enough of a shit to try and tackle Brexit like the SNP

https://www.snp.org/scotland_brexit_plan_what_you_need_to_know?mc_cid=4c78e04ffe&mc_eid=ca19d73f8c

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00512073.pdf

we could be nudging towards a "decent Brexit". As I said though Ruth will just bow down to May, and Dugdale is desperate to try and outdo Ruth's indyref2 moaning. Very little chat about Brexit, the single market, and any demanding for Scotland to get to negotiate at the table.

Scotland incorrectly has become all about indyref2 instead of Brexit. Almost as if they all just accept it's now May's pet project, let's just bend over and go along with it ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ The counter-measure to this apparent Brexit apathy has always been once the negotiation really gets going people will switch on again. Hence why the snap election was kryptonite to the SNP. Just sit back and watch the new DUP propped up May/Tory party bumble into Brexit and continue to ask all the new Scottish Tories every few months "how are you feeling now folks/was it worth it?".

 

[ss1]

Philip Hammond going out with digs against Boris Johnson today: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0a8c0ebbea66a#block-59525bffe4b0a8c0ebbea66a

It is an honour to speak at the annual gathering of The Economic Council of the CDU which for 54 years has promoted a social market economy based on the values and ideas of Ludwig Erhard.

Erhard said, “Ein Kompromiß, ist die Kunst, einen Kuchen so zu teilen, daß jeder meint, er habe das größte Stück bekommen.”

[Translation: “a compromise is the art of dividing a cake in such a way that everyone believes he has the biggest piece.”]

Wise words with some applicability to the Brexit negotiations although I try to discourage talk of “cake” amongst my colleagues.

Brexit is going tear the Tories apart just like Europe did during the Major years.

 

[Chinner]

Could someone define what the Irish Language Act exactly is?

 

[Psychotext]

When will people understand that men are probably called the C word and/or call other men the C word on a much larger scale than women in the UK because it doesn't really have the same gendered meaning here?

A builder will hit his thumb with a hammer and shout "argh you CUNT". A man will probably call his friends cunts a million times in his life and never use it towards a woman. Only time I've heard the C word used as an insult specifically for women in the UK was when I watched "Grease" in school.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner.

I'm in Ireland at the moment. Had a conversation with a random stranger in which he referred to "cunt water everywhere" (puddles apparently). I had forgotten how much the Irish swear.

I mean, we all came from cunts, so everyone is a cunt.

I was from my mother's womb untimely ripped.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Philip Hammond going out with digs against Boris Johnson today: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0a8c0ebbea66a#block-59525bffe4b0a8c0ebbea66a



Brexit is going tear the Tories apart just like Europe did during the Major years.

The only problem is it'll take more than a decade to fix everything they've fucked up in the last seven years.

If they implode, I hope it literally tears the party apart and they form into two separate parties. That's the only way they can be kept out of power long enough for the cuntry to recover.

 

[SteveWD40]

The only problem is it'll take more than a decade to fix everything they've fucked up in the last seven years.

If they implode, I hope it literally tears the party apart and they form into two separate parties. That's the only way they can be kept out of power long enough for the cuntry to recover.

The Torys are 3 partys really:

Hard Right lunatics (Leadsom, IDS) who think 1984 is an instruction manual.

Neoliberals (Osbourne, Cameron) who are largely socially liberal but manic about low spending and austerity.

Middle England "values" (May) will slide around wherever they are needed between the first two but generally authotarion "we know best" types who want to ban / censor anything fun.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

The Torys are 3 partys really:

Hard Right lunatics (Leadsom, IDS) who think 1984 is an instruction manual.

Neoliberals (Osbourne, Cameron) who are largely socially liberal but manic about low spending and austerity.

Middle England "values" (May) will slide around wherever they are needed between the first two but generally authotarion "we know best" types who want to ban / censor anything fun.

Explains why their strongest voter demographic is miserable old fogies then.

 

[StayDead]

My parents see Cunt as a super serious insult, or at least they did until they realised nobody really cares anymore. I say cunt probably more than any other swear word and it can be used to describe anything.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The Torys are 3 partys really:

Hard Right lunatics (Leadsom, IDS) who think 1984 is an instruction manual.

Neoliberals (Osbourne, Cameron) who are largely socially liberal but manic about low spending and austerity.

Middle England "values" (May) will slide around wherever they are needed between the first two but generally authotarion "we know best" types who want to ban / censor anything fun.

That's actually a really good point, especially about the Middle England values part of the party.

 

[Rumblebones]

No, what's rich is seeing the millennial meat-heads cry about a Conservative - DUP deal when they wanted an IRA lackey to be the PM.

I guess only one side of Northern Irish politics is unacceptable to the left.

Delicious.

Post some more, I'll go get chips and vinegar.

 

[Syder]

No, what's rich is seeing the millennial meat-heads cry about a Conservative - DUP deal when they wanted an IRA lackey to be the PM.

I guess only one side of Northern Irish politics is unacceptable to the left.

The irony is palpable.

 

[Lego Boss]

My parents see Cunt as a super serious insult, or at least they did until they realised nobody really cares anymore. I say cunt probably more than any other swear word and it can be used to describe anything.

It's a horrid word. It has been over used here.

Please stop everyone!

 

[Huw_Dawson]

One other thought on Indyref2 - as the Tories have now (predictably) begun talking about transitional arrangements, there is less of a reason for Scotland to vote again before we leave as it is not a cliff edge.

The ultimate problem Scotland faces is that it wants fiscal unity with England but otherwise it wants to be in the EU, which would likely want Scotland in the Euro. Until that gets fixed I don't really think Scotland has a shot of going independent.

Anyway:

Sir Vince the Invincible has managed to scare off the last pretended to the throne of Liberal Democratia! All hail King Vince I!

(He is leader by default - all potential opponents have ruled themselves out).

 

[Spaghetti]

"Grenfell Tower gas pipes left exposed, despite fire safety expert's orders" via The Guardian

The story gets worse and worse.

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

Cunt is the most versatile word in the English language. It works in basically any sentence as a noun, adjective or verb.

Eg. I cunted that cunty little cunt in his cunting face and he cunting well deserved it, the cunt.

Perfect English

 

[Delusibeta]

I asked these questions last time independence was raised and didn't get any answers:

1) What currency will Scotland use?

2) How will they make up the £12 billion shortfall in tax?

3) How much will no longer being in the Union impact Scotland's exports, given that 70% of it currently goes to the rUK?

4) How long will it take them to join the EU? 5) Will they have to adopt the euro?

Lots of speculation ahead, but here's what I expect will happen:
1) A Scottish punt, followed by the Euro shortly after joining the EU.
2) 75% cuts, and 25% tax rises.
3) Negatively, since I would expect joining the EU would trump organising a free trade agreement with rUK.
4) Minimum 12 months after independence day, probably longer.
5) Yes.

 

[Lego Boss]

"Grenfell Tower gas pipes left exposed, despite fire safety expert's orders" via The Guardian

The story gets worse and worse.

Oh look a company responsible for safety was sold off . . .

Once again it pays to be neoliberal!

 

[Goodlife]

It's a horrid word. It has been over used here.

Please stop everyone!

I've called my wife a cunt about 10 times today.
I think she's called me a cunt about 20.

It's been a good day

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The word is a stiff insult anywhere else in the UK and is almost a term of affection in Scotland. Because Scotland is a bit odd.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

5) Yes.

The Euro (European Monetary Unit, EMU) is not a mandatory part of EU membership.

Accepting it as a type of currency might be another thing though.


edit: Also, considering the complexity of Brexit along with the historical conflicts of the various regions, nobody in the EU is going to be willing to quickly negotiate a re-entry of Scotland or Ireland since they would inherit the known baggage with it.
You voted on Brexit together, you're in the shit together. Protest the Tories to get them to revoke Brexit, but don't expect the EU to do you any favors soon.

 

[Theonik]

The Euro (European Monetary Unit, EMU) is not a mandatory part of EU membership.

Accepting it as a type of currency might be another thing though.

It is for new nations joining. The only two countries that have exemptions negotiated are Denmark and the UK due to John Major. But on the flipside the EU27 would decide on what terms Scotland could rejoin. It might be in their interests to allow Scotland to use Haggis or whatever other currency they want to use.

 

[Pandy]

*snip*

I think only the first quote contains any 'wooliness', really, but there's no point going into it, because I generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just saying that was the plan all along, and this is nothing but a 'marketing' ploy to move the conversation away from Indy Ref and onto Brexit now that the negotiations are underway.

If you were one of the people that listened to Nicola Sturgeon's speeches after the EU ref and thought that a Scottish Indy Ref was the only hope you had left to cling to, you still have that, no matter what the papers say tomorrow.

In the meantime, it's going to be interesting to see how much pressure the SNP and Scottish Labour can put on Ruth Davidson to control "her" MPs in Westminster. Having those Scottish Tory votes be decisive in the Commons is going to make Davidson effectively accountable for every bill that passes there.

EDIT: Somebody above saying Scotland would have to use the Euro if it joined the EU! Jesus, not this again. Bailing out of the thread for a while before I pick up another ban.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

It is for new nations joining. The only two countries that have exemptions negotiated are Denmark and the UK due to John Major. But on the flipside the EU27 would decide on what terms Scotland could rejoin. It might be in their interests to allow Scotland to use Haggis or whatever other currency they want to use.

Just looked it up and it's only 'eventually' mandatory, but it is not included as a part for joining, which is a separate series of treaties.

The Treaty does not specify a particular timetable for joining the euro area, but leaves it to Member States to develop their own strategies for meeting the condition for euro adoption. Seven of the 13 Member States who joined the EU since 2004 have already joined the euro area, most recently Lithuania on 1 January 2015.

I honestly didn't even know they were expanding the Euro zone at all. I've been out of the loop for a while.
Seems the real maximum adoption date is roughly 2020-2025 when they intend to have completed the EMU.

Also, I'd imagine the 'Opt-out' clause the UK had as a member of the EU might be extended into a hypothetical Scotland re-entry. But then the idea of a re-entry is very implausible as it is.

 

[Theonik]

Just looked it up and it's only 'eventually' mandatory, but it is not included as a part for joining, which is a separate series of treaties.



I honestly didn't even know they were expanding the Euro zone at all. I've been out of the loop for a while.
Seems the real maximum adoption date is roughly 2020-2025 when they intend to have completed the EMU.

Also, I'd imagine the 'Opt-out' clause the UK had as a member of the EU might be extended into a hypothetical Scotland re-entry. But then the idea of a re-entry is very implausible as it is.

You have to sign the relevant treaties that basically mean that as soon as you meet the criteria you must join the Euro. It is a requirement. Sweden is another exception but they deliberately have not signed one of the required treaties for joining but that kind of exceptionalism would likely not fly for Scotland. Moreover, if Scotland leaves after the UK does then it will likely have to rejoin as a new nation while the process would be fast tracked since it already meets the entry criteria being an EU nation as part of the UK already.

Going back to that point though. The issue is that any deal would need unanimous approval of Scotland's application by all the EU27, and so Scotland is unlikely to get any of the waivers the UK currently enjoys.

 

[Faddy]

You have to sign the relevant treaties that basically mean that as soon as you meet the criteria you must join the Euro. It is a requirement. Sweden is another exception but they deliberately have not signed one of the required treaties for joining but that kind of exceptionalism would likely not fly for Scotland. Moreover, if Scotland leaves after the UK does then it will likely have to rejoin as a new nation while the process would be fast tracked since it already meets the entry criteria being an EU nation as part of the UK already.

Going back to that point though. The issue is that any deal would need unanimous approval of Scotland's application by all the EU27, and so Scotland is unlikely to get any of the waivers the UK currently enjoys.

But the individual country decides when they have met the criteria for the Euro. So it is a pretty empty pledge.

Also why would we want/need waivers? The govt has opted Britain out of many key and good aspects of EU laws for no good reason. Schengen might be the only thing Scotland wouldn't want, preferring to have whatever common travel area emerges between Britain and Ireland.

 

[Audioboxer]

I think only the first quote contains any 'wooliness', really, but there's no point going into it, because I generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just saying that was the plan all along, and this is nothing but a 'marketing' ploy to move the conversation away from Indy Ref and onto Brexit now that the negotiations are underway.

If you were one of the people that listened to Nicola Sturgeon's speeches after the EU ref and thought that a Scottish Indy Ref was the only hope you had left to cling to, you still have that, no matter what the papers say tomorrow.

In the meantime, it's going to be interesting to see how much pressure the SNP and Scottish Labour can put on Ruth Davidson to control "her" MPs in Westminster. Having those Scottish Tory votes be decisive in the Commons is going to make Davidson effectively accountable for every bill that passes there.

EDIT: Somebody above saying Scotland would have to use the Euro if it joined the EU! Jesus, not this again. Bailing out of the thread for a while before I pick up another ban.

I agree with that. It's just political chess play for a lack of a better saying. I do agree on hindsight Sturgeon should just have said what she said today a few months ago, but ultimately I rest my case on the snap election was the best way to slay the SNP. Luckily the rUK bailed us out and Brexit being Brexit is undoubtedly going to cause many sleepless nights in Scots minds as it starts unraveling.

The MP's up here should face some too. As I said it's appalling both Scottish Labour and Scottish Conservatives have zero backbone and just prance around shouting about indyref2. Dugdale throws the Schools/Education into the mix, rightfully so, but it's like her only card too. Point being a lot of what is going on just now should be pressing May and Co around Brexit. Instead Davidson is just a wet paper bag to her master and Dugdale continues the Scottish Labour existential crisis of not knowing whether to just spend all her/their time SNP bashing, or also attempting to challenge The Tories. Corbyn seriously needs to kick Dugdale up the arse. She genuinely helped contribute towards the Tory gains up here.

As for currency debates raging on again, it's Irn-Bru caps. We have enough of them. We have to get more Americans drinking Irn-Bru and then who needs Oil money? We can just export tonnes of soda to America. Rich in a few months.