Support NeoGAF

[MilkyJoe]

Loot boxes have come under fire from the UK’s mental health tsar, as she calls for publishers to stop selling them to children. It may seem an old argument to some gamers but concerns about video game loot boxes remains high, as the NHS’s mental health director calls for them to be banned in games bought by children. ‘Frankly no company should be setting kids up for addiction by teaching them to gamble on the content of these loot boxes. No firm should sell to children loot box games with this element of chance, so yes those sales should end’, said NHS mental health director Claire Murdoch in a statement.

NHS mental health chief wants video game loot box ban

Loot boxes have come under fire from the UK’s mental health tsar, as she calls for publishers to stop selling them to children.

metro.co.uk

“Frankly no company should be setting kids up for addiction by teaching them to gamble on the content of these loot boxes. No firm should sell to children loot box games with this element of chance, so yes those sales should end.

“Young people’s health is at stake, and although the NHS is stepping up with these new, innovative services available to families through our Long Term Plan, we cannot do this alone, so other parts of society must do what they can to limit risks and safeguard children’s wellbeing.”

Concerns have been raised about children playing video games which involve spending significant amounts of money – often without parents’ knowledge or consent – on so-called ‘loot boxes’, which are virtual collections of in-game purchases and other add-ons.

To progress in the game, players can collect extra items and content, but do not know what items they will be given until they’ve paid – which encourages users to keep spending and playing.

Investigations have found numerous cases of children spending money without their parents’ knowledge, including a 16-year-old paying £2,000 on a basketball game and a 15-year-old losing £1,000 in a shooting game.

A report by the Royal Society of Public Health in December found that over half of young people believe that playing a video game could lead to gambling and that the link between gaming and gambling is a negative one.

Ms Murdoch has called on gaming companies to:

• Ban sales of games with loot boxes that encourage children to gamble
• Introduce fair and realistic spending limits to prevent people from spending thousands in games
• Make clear to users what percentage chance they have of obtaining the items they want before they purchase loot boxes
• Support parents by increasing their awareness on the risks of in-game spending

More at link

NHS England » Country’s top mental health nurse warns video games pushing young people into ‘under the radar’ gambling

www.england.nhs.uk

Let's hope his is going to get addressed properly this time.

 

[Saruhashi]

"Concerns have been raised about children playing video games which involve spending significant amounts of money – often without parents’ knowledge or consent – on so-called ‘loot boxes’, which are virtual collections of in-game purchases and other add-ons."

I feel like this is a side issue when it comes to loot boxes.

Personally I do not like them and would lose nothing at all if they were banned.
Realistically though I think I should have the right to gamble if I want and a video game publisher should have the right to offer me that service.

It should be regulated for sure and just like other gambling should be restricted to 18 plus. That seems fair. Don't get kids hooked on gambling at all and regulate gambling for adults so that it is less predatory.

This whole "without the parents knowledge" thing is fucking bullshit though. At some point protecting kids needs to become a parents responsibility. If you are letting little Timmy run wild with your credit card then that's not just EA's fault.

 

[Spukc]

Good fucking die already

 

[JOEVIAL]

I feel like this is a side issue when it comes to loot boxes.

Personally I do not like them and would lose nothing at all if they were banned.
Realistically though I think I should have the right to gamble if I want and a video game publisher should have the right to offer me that service.

It should be regulated for sure and just like other gambling should be restricted to 18 plus. That seems fair. Don't get kids hooked on gambling at all and regulate gambling for adults so that it is less predatory.

This whole "without the parents knowledge" thing is fucking bullshit though. At some point protecting kids needs to become a parents responsibility. If you are letting little Timmy run wild with your credit card then that's not just EA's fault.

Totally agree with that last quote. But then there's the argument that they should be completely removed from games geared for kids (anything with a teen or PEGI 13 rating or less). In America kids are not allowed near the tables or slot machines at casinos. The same basic principle should be in force for video games.

If a game has predatory gambling the rating needs to be M or 17+. If the developers don't want that rating, remove the paid loot boxes, or switch to an in-game currency system where you're actually rewarded for playing the game (novel concept, I know).

 

[DESTROYA]

Totally agree with that last quote. But then there's the argument that they should be completely removed from games geared for kids (anything with a teen or PEGI 13 rating or less). In America kids are not allowed near the tables or slot machines at casinos. The same basic principle should be in force for video games.

If a game has predatory gambling the rating needs to be M or 17+. If the developers don't want that rating, remove the paid loot boxes, or switch to an in-game currency system where you're actually rewarded for playing the game (novel concept, I know).

That wouldn’t work a lot of the time because I see kids play age inappropriate games all the time, sure having loot boxes only in M or 17+ games would be a nice start but unfortunately I don’t see how that can be enforced.

 

[Saruhashi]

Totally agree with that last quote. But then there's the argument that they should be completely removed from games geared for kids (anything with a teen or PEGI 13 rating or less). In America kids are not allowed near the tables or slot machines at casinos. The same basic principle should be in force for video games.

If a game has predatory gambling the rating needs to be M or 17+. If the developers don't want that rating, remove the paid loot boxes, or switch to an in-game currency system where you're actually rewarded for playing the game (novel concept, I know).

Yes.
100% agree with this.
That's the route I would like to see them go down.

Maybe also add some kind of protections so that customers cannot spend lots of money on card payments without asking for password etc.

 

[Saruhashi]

That wouldn’t work a lot of the time because I see kids play age inappropriate games all the time, sure having loot boxes only in M or 17+ games would be a nice start but unfortunately I don’t see how that can be enforced.

Then it becomes a parents responsibility.

If your kid is playing M or 17+ games AND has access to your credit card AND is able to use your card in game to spend 100s of bucks then that's on the parents.

 

[Zannegan]

Their next step will probably be a game-time limit for adults in the name of mental health and national productivity. That said, I can't say I disagree with this one.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

This always reminded me of the times parents would cry about banning gta...

“why does this game exist?! My little Tommy hasn’t been the same since he started playing it!”

Yes love. Maybe because little Tommy shouldn’t be playing it. You’re the one ignoring the damn age on the front of the box, but let’s blame the developers.

When I worked retail many, many moons ago, we had this a lot. “I have to let you know this game has some pretty crazy shit madam, there’s murder, swearing, and prostitutes” “oh it’s ok, he just likes the driving.”

Course he does.

Sooner or later, parents have to accept responsibility, and understand that they have a duty of care to their kids. If you are old enough and still have an issue, you are old enough to back away. Gambling is a bit trickier because it’s an addiction,and that’s why I’m not a fan of loot boxes at all, unless they are free items you get from normal playing. I would be happy with banning that shit altogether but hey, it makes too much money, so it will never go away. But sadly the reality of what it all really is, isn’t broadcasted enough.

That’s why my 3 year old only plays GTA5c, and not other games. I don’t want her growing up in a world where her actions don’t have consequences. When she runs down somebody, I make her get out and apologise. Its all about manners, see. She set fire to the house last Tuesday, and while it did a fair bit of damage, she did apologise,

#ParentingWin

 

[DESTROYA]

Then it becomes a parents responsibility.

If your kid is playing M or 17+ games AND has access to your credit card AND is able to use your card in game to spend 100s of bucks then that's on the parents.

Well it’s always on the parents in those cases but some kids still take advantage of the situation , if parents were smart they would never tie credit cards to consoles that kids have access to anyway.
The other way I can see this maybe working is having loot specific pre-paid cards that you have to be 18 or older to purchase and adding a hypothetical $100 a week limit you can only use, you would still be able to have loot boxes but adding another layer of security so it can’t be abused too badly.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

On the subject of console lock downs, the consoles all have settings that let you lock purchases down. It’s really not hard. I have it so I can’t make a purchase without putting in a code, and that’s great for me because if I ever have a Micheal J Fox moment and slap the A button too many times, I know I won’t have £500 worth of fifa points waiting for me.

Which would be double shit, because I dont play FIFA.

 

[joe_zazen]

Then it becomes a parents responsibility.

If your kid is playing M or 17+ games AND has access to your credit card AND is able to use your card in game to spend 100s of bucks then that's on the parents.

some,parents are shitty and that isnt the kid’s fault, which is why child beating is illegal and social services exist..

If childhood gambling can lead to adult addiction, then it is society’s responsibility to stop that shit.

 

[DESTROYA]

On the subject of console lock downs, the consoles all have settings that let you lock purchases down. It’s really not hard. I have it so I can’t make a purchase without putting in a code, and that’s great for me because if I ever have a Micheal J Fox moment and slap the A button too many times, I know I won’t have £500 worth of fifa points waiting for me.

Which would be double shit, because I dont play FIFA.

It’s unfortunate but most parents don’t realize they have this feature or more likely the kids don’t tell them about it anyway. Your absolutely right this feature should be touted more by the console makers themselves, hell put in big bold letters on the front of the box or even on the front page of the setup pamphlet that says read me first before setting up the console.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

It’s unfortunate but most parents don’t realize they have this feature or more likely the kids don’t tell them about it anyway. Your absolutely right this feature should be touted more by the console makers themselves, hell put in big bold letters on the front of the box or even on the front page of the setup pamphlet that says read me first before setting up the console.

when you buy a new phone, one of the very first things it asks you is “do you want to set up a password?”

consoles should adopt this first time setup. It should instantly be asking you to protect yourself, and make life easier. I understand that will delay you playing your games for 48 seconds, but shit, games take 4 and a half years to install anyway, you won’t miss much...

 

[DESTROYA]

when you buy a new phone, one of the very first things it asks you is “do you want to set up a password?”

consoles should adopt this first time setup. It should instantly be asking you to protect yourself, and make life easier. I understand that will delay you playing your games for 48 seconds, but shit, games tale 4 and a half years to install anyway, you won’t miss much...

Totally agree man, great point!

 

[ROMhack]

It's very manipulative and I've been to a few meetups in the past year to discuss the ethics behind it.

The main takeaway is that the people designing the systems really get that they're unethical. In the current landscape though — and this is huge in the UK tech scene — there's little regulation to stop companies taking advantage of it. Ultimately it creates huge amounts of revenue for them and they probably wouldn't exist without it.