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UK PoliGAF |OT2| - We Blue Ourselves

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Dan27 said:
One more:

Sophy Ridge ‏(@SophyRidgeSky)
Seema Malhotra - who introduced Jeremy Corbyn yesterday - has resigned as Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
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That I did not expect. Didn't she say earlier that they needed to stick together and not do this?
 
Labour's Bloody Sunday:

Cl514-NWIAAfTKe.jpg
 
BBC Breaking News (‏@BBCBreaking)
Deputy Labour leader Tom Watson tells Jeremy Corbyn to resign, after spate of UK shadow cabinet resignations
 
So what happens if there's a leadership election and Corbyn wins?

Round and round she goes, where it stops nobody knows.
 
Youth Labour circulating a letter calling for Corbyn to leave am due to his EU stance. As I predicted - his base are strongly pro-Eu and he misread that completely.
 
At that point it becomes a question of who and how many decide they'd rather stand as an independent, I think. Both in the Commons and the Lords.
 
Crab said:
So what happens if there's a leadership election and Corbyn wins?

Round and round she goes, where it stops nobody knows.
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Party split. Possible a coalition with Lib dems and SNP to stay in Europe. Talking to the labour people I know, Corbyn's actions are actually pushing them to co wider leaving the party which for some was unthinkable even a few days ago.
 
Maledict said:
Party split. Possible a coalition with Lib dems and SNP to stay in Europe. Talking to the labour people I know, Corbyn's actions are actually pushing them to co wider leaving the party which for some was unthinkable even a few days ago.
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Stupid, stupid, stupid. It would destroy the Labour Party - again. I hope to god Corbyn loses, and I had some fair patience for him once.
 
Crab said:
Stupid, stupid, stupid. It would destroy the Labour Party - again. I hope to god Corbyn loses, and I had some fair patience for him once.
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Like I said, literally life long labour activists are saying the party isn't theirs anymore if he stays. These are the ground troops of the party machine.
 
Are we starting a new UK PoliGAF for our new era?

I vote for |OT| Boris Breaks It
 
Haa. I may also suggest Et tu, Boris?

I wonder if it's best waiting until things settle down a little bit - with things spread (rightly, ofc) across the individual threads of Labour's meltdown, WTF happens with the EU, and Tory leadership as they're in full flow.
 
Nandy and Smith going. Corbyn is a dead man walking.
 
tomtom94 said:
Nominations open Wednesday evening and close Thursday noon, presumably to stop there being a hundred different candidates.
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Unfortunately Dr Liam Fox has thrown his hat into the ring. I genuinely fear for the country if he becomes PM. He is extremely right-wing on social issues.
 
Davis is out, Fox is in. Leadsrom won't say if she's running or not. May is expected to be the "anyone but Boris" challenger. Hunt is "seriously considering" it but surely wouldn't survive the MPs' vote. Woolaston wants people to drop out if they don't have a serious chance of winning.
 
Corbyn loses the motion of no confidence in him by 172 to 40.

Tom Watson and Angela Eagle meeting right now to determine who will challenge him.
 
Hey, Britgaffers! I've got a question I've been meaning to ask you.

Do the Leavers have any semblance of an actual plan of kickin all the pakistanis and Indians and Ukrainians out? Because it seems to me a hilarious irony that with the leave vote, the UK loses its special immigration relationship with the European Union. And with the loss of that relationship, the UK actually has nowhere to kick out its minorities anymore. Britain will remain 1 in 5 not-white for centuries to come and will never, ever be the way it "used to be ever again".

So when I hear about leave voters shouting "time to go back home"... when exactly do legal Eastern European and Africans who are British citizens start leaving?
 
Kristoffer said:
Hey, Britgaffers! I've got a question I've been meaning to ask you.

Do the Leavers have any semblance of an actual plan of kickin all the pakistanis and Indians and Ukrainians out? Because it seems to me a hilarious irony that with the leave vote, the UK loses its special immigration relationship with the European Union. And with the loss of that relationship, the UK actually has nowhere to kick out its minorities anymore. Britain will remain 1 in 5 not-white for centuries to come and will never, ever be the way it "used to be ever again".

So when I hear about leave voters shouting "time to go back home"... when exactly do legal Eastern European and Africans who are British citizens start leaving?
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So it looks increasingly like the Leave camp actually didn't expect to win, or if they did, had no intention to plan for any kind of initial action plan to put into place, or were content with kicking the can to David Cameron (who promptly kicked it back by resigning).

As far as I can see, those from other countries who have obtained British Citizenship have nothing to worry about - they have their passport and their right to live here. Those in the process of obtaining theirs (I would believe...) should be ok if they get theirs before the exit of the UK from the EU.

It remains to see what will happen with those EU nationals who are here. I would expect those here and already contributing to the economy to be allowed dispensation to stay. Certainly, this seems the most logical path forward as those in jobs have already integrated into the workforce and asking them to leave would be a regressive step, especially in terms of finding replacements that have the same skills (that would be of UK nationality too...)

I think there's an insane amount ignorance from Leave voters who automatically thought that those already here are going to be kicked out in the next few weeks. I think those people are going to be very disappointed when all these details are announced.

The realisation and subsequent anger from the xenophobic Leave voters when they realise they have been played is going to be something to see...
 
Dan27 said:
Stephen Crabb has just announced he will stand for Conservative Party leader.

He would get my vote.
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I'd say that putting up a man who previously endorsed "gay cure" organisations would be too much even for the Conservatives but in the current climate he might actually survive.
 
tomtom94 said:
I'd say that putting up a man who previously endorsed "gay cure" organisations would be too much even for the Conservatives but in the current climate he might actually survive.
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I would say he's safely categorized in this case as a "best of a bad bunch"...
 
Dan27 said:
So it looks increasingly like the Leave camp actually didn't expect to win, or if they did, had no intention to plan for any kind of initial action plan to put into place, or were content with kicking the can to David Cameron (who promptly kicked it back by resigning).

As far as I can see, those from other countries who have obtained British Citizenship have nothing to worry about - they have their passport and their right to live here. Those in the process of obtaining theirs (I would believe...) should be ok if they get theirs before the exit of the UK from the EU.

It remains to see what will happen with those EU nationals who are here. I would expect those here and already contributing to the economy to be allowed dispensation to stay. Certainly, this seems the most logical path forward as those in jobs have already integrated into the workforce and asking them to leave would be a regressive step, especially in terms of finding replacements that have the same skills (that would be of UK nationality too...)

I think there's an insane amount ignorance from Leave voters who automatically thought that those already here are going to be kicked out in the next few weeks. I think those people are going to be very disappointed when all these details are announced.

The realisation and subsequent anger from the xenophobic Leave voters when they realise they have been played is going to be something to see...
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#LeaveItToLeavers
 
Martin Belam ‏@MartinBelam 1h1 hour ago
Labour: We can't find anyone to stand to be new leader

Conservatives: We are all standing to be new leader


Gove is standing now!
 
This is why I love the Tories. None of this "let's have a meeting, let's discuss it at the AGM, let's have a secret ballot." Nope. The knives come straight out and the emails get leaked. Amazing theatre. Spectacular. Bravo.
 
CyclopsRock said:
This is why I love the Tories. None of this "let's have a meeting, let's discuss it at the AGM, let's have a secret ballot." Nope. The knives come straight out and the emails get leaked. Amazing theatre. Spectacular. Bravo.
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Labour have always been bloody useless at dealing with their leaders. We're now in the preposterous state when a leader can overwhelmingly lose a vote of no confidence, to the point where he can't even do his job and lead a shadow cabinet, and yet he won't go.

Democracy for choosing party leaders is a bad idea to be frank.
 
Maledict said:
Labour have always been bloody useless at dealing with their leaders. We're now in the preposterous state when a leader can overwhelmingly lose a vote of no confidence, to the point where he can't even do his job and lead a shadow cabinet, and yet he won't go.

Democracy for choosing party leaders is a bad idea to be frank.
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No, it's a great idea. What's a bad idea is having a two-party system that means Blairites and Corbynites have to exist in the same party, causing the inevitable shit-storm when one ends up at the helm rather than the other. Our actual electoral system is so poor at expressing political cleavages we have to do it inside parties instead.

If the Labour Party could split and be done with it, you'd probably have two fairly coherent parties at the end with distinct membership and purpose. But the lessons from the last split make that a no-go.

EDIT: In general, I think there are very few problems to which the answer is "less democracy". Democracy doesn't explicitly mandate any outcome, what emerges from a democratic procedure is the result of the inputs. If the inputs are producing a bad outcome, and those "inputs" are people with formed opinions and preferences over their lives who want a stake in their political system, then changing the procedure, while it might avert the bad outcome in the short-term, is a sticky-plaster solution. Eventually, the discontent will still bubble up, because you've not addressed the core problem - why people think that way, what's causing them to form those opinions. Even more dangerously, it can hide this discontent from view. Working class Britain has been furious for nearly a decade and a half, but much our elite didn't notice because our procedures didn't allow this anger to come through.
 
Just push for electoral reform and the rise of coalition governments, we'd have much the same as what we get now, a (coalition) party in power that compromises on it's message depending on it's makeup and who is PM.

Labour isn't the only party that is full of fractures, the tories are exactly the same, the only difference they're a lot less vocal about it and tend to keep dissent quietly smouldering. Though this round of Leader elections might prove me wrong.
 
I wonder if Carswell will re-defect? that seems like a big ask of his electorate, but he's a generally well respected MP and he's "got what he wanted" - what's the point in staying with UKIP? Even if he ended up being their leader, what good would it do him? I imagine he could climb the ladder pretty well if he were in a Leave-lead Tory party. If that's something he's into...
 
CyclopsRock said:
I wonder if Carswell will re-defect? that seems like a big ask of his electorate, but he's a generally well respected MP and he's "got what he wanted" - what's the point in staying with UKIP? Even if he ended up being their leader, what good would it do him? I imagine he could climb the ladder pretty well if he were in a Leave-lead Tory party. If that's something he's into...
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He'd be the first MP since Churchill to do a defection then defect back to the same party later in his career, I think.

EDIT: Excluding the N.Ireland shenanigans with the Independent Unionist Party.
 
Suzanne said she'd like to run but she's currently suspended from the party because she disagreed with Farage.

TIL that Osborne and Goves dogs had a service to "marry" them with flowers. This country...
 
UK PoliGAF |OT| Proudly presents The Thick Of It, season 5
 
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