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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo
- Thread starter Salvadora
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CitizenVectron
Member
That's...not really what is happening. Its true that the west has been powerless in this case, but the situation wasn't started by the west, it was specifically about a corrupt government being protested against. The aggressor here is Russia, not the west.
Ether_Snake
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You forgot something, I added it for you. Here is a list of suggestions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kim_Jong-il's_titles
It keeps saying "lost connection to update server. retrying in x seconds..."
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
This is so ignorant I can't even believe it.
CitizenVectron
Member
Oops, I linked to the google translate link so I could get around my work's firewall, haha. Here is the actual link (I think):
http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi&usg=ALkJrhgPqT9-YAkY9gYE6wOePjor8doQvA
Either way, it's on the /r/ukrainianconflict subreddit, stickied near the top.
Nikodemos
Member
Isn't that a photo of BAE's prototype active cloaking system?What ever happened to the Polish stealth (assault) tank?
Supposed to be in mass production by 2018, however I wonder If the Polish government already owns a few (considering its being developed in poland)
Nope that's a tank in development in Poland, but it also has active cloaking stuff (computers and equipment can not trace it) and it would also have that bullet shield thing (anything that will try to hit it, will be destroyed before)
But it seems to be a proto-type.
There's apparently not a single working unit, the thing they've shown was just a "design study".What ever happened to the Polish stealth (assault) tank?
Supposed to be in mass production by 2018, however I wonder If the Polish government already owns a few (considering its being developed in poland)
JupitersClock
Banned
LatviaGAF here.
Despite all this talk of NATO and how the Baltics should not be worried...we are.
We have large ethnic Russian populations and there is not a lot of harmony between us.
There is no trust of NATO, the UN or the EU in the Baltics, not in the way that we would be looked after.
Sure they might come and save the day if Russia pulls the same stunt here but we now know for a fact it would be after A LOT of useless talking while we would be ground into dust waiting.
Russia is no longer the paper tiger in this world, the western powers are and its terrifiying.
Despite all this talk of NATO and how the Baltics should not be worried...we are.
We have large ethnic Russian populations and there is not a lot of harmony between us.
There is no trust of NATO, the UN or the EU in the Baltics, not in the way that we would be looked after.
Sure they might come and save the day if Russia pulls the same stunt here but we now know for a fact it would be after A LOT of useless talking while we would be ground into dust waiting.
Russia is no longer the paper tiger in this world, the western powers are and its terrifiying.
The troops being moved are very likely on their way to the borders to make sure russia doesn't go further. The government has to be seen to do something. Quite frankly it's amazing it has taken them this long to do anything.
They will just sit and look at the russians. This also tells the russians that crimea is okay but we wouldn't be cool with you trying the east of ukraine. The fact that they are moving light stuff speaks more of a defence force than attack.
The russians likely expect this move, they may even have been told of it seeing as the Russians and Ukrainians are actually talking to each other now.
They will just sit and look at the russians. This also tells the russians that crimea is okay but we wouldn't be cool with you trying the east of ukraine. The fact that they are moving light stuff speaks more of a defence force than attack.
The russians likely expect this move, they may even have been told of it seeing as the Russians and Ukrainians are actually talking to each other now.
Nikodemos
Member
Oh yeah, I remeber reading about that as well. It also came from BAE. Some sort of electrical shielding that created a stun-gun-like arc whenever a projectile came close, turning it into a metallic mist. Sort of like what happens with somebody's jewellery when they are struck by lightning.
I really wouldn't worry. Russia wouldn't attack a NATO country. It would be suicidal. This isn't the old days of the mighty soviet army and it isn't the same world. Such an attack would devastate russias economy overnight. They aren't that stupid. Heck just pissing about in crimea has lost them a load of money.
Ukraine isn't even a NATO country, the only ones who go fucked here are the Ukrainians who protested against their Pro-Russian corrupt government, Putin is trying to save face domestically by invading Crimea, pissing off most of the world in the process. I fucking hate when so-called anti-imperialists fall over themselves to defend non-Western imperialism. Russia isn't the champion of the struggle against Western capitalism, it's an autocracy ruled by a right wing strongman, fucking over everyone that might threaten his reign.
JupitersClock
Banned
Would NATO really be so open to attack Russia if local 'Latvian Russians' in unmarked uniforms took over parts of Latvia just like in Crimea?
Many people here just don't think any country has the balls to step up unless it was a clear cut case of Russian marked tanks rolling into the Baltics.
Even if these Crimean forces are not Russian army...they were obviously trained and supplied by them, thats what people here worry about, that we will lose out while the world debates what can be passed off as real or not.
Many people here just don't think any country has the balls to step up unless it was a clear cut case of Russian marked tanks rolling into the Baltics.
Even if these Crimean forces are not Russian army...they were obviously trained and supplied by them, thats what people here worry about, that we will lose out while the world debates what can be passed off as real or not.
bonesmccoy
Banned
It's not. I wouldn't have phrased it the way he did, but this is the first time a major power has reacted to the 'Western-creep' in Europe. I think the weird reactions, ie "Obama should have bombed a Russian client state/attacked Iran/started another unpopular war and Russia wouldn't have occupied Crimea!", are born from the fact that a lot of people got very used to Russia being too weak to stop the spread of NATO, EU or whatever.
They quite obviously are.
Nobody in the west doubted for a second that those troops were from Russia. If obviously Russian soldiers in unmarked uniforms take over military bases in a NATO country you can bet the reaction would be different than in Ukraine. I'm not going to tell you that it would obviously be immediate total war, because nobody knows exactly how it would play out, but it's definitely going to be different.
The most plausible theory I've heard is that Ukraine and Russia had a deal for the Black Sea Fleet going into 2017, which was primarily stationed out of Sevastopol in Crimea. Seeing the Pro-Russian government was about to collapse and their interests in the region potentially in peril, they moved to secure the Crimean region so that they can permanently avoid the possibility of that line being closed to them. There were rumblings that we can see in the wikileaks cables about this very thing, suggesting the Russians could have been planning for just such a scenario for ages.
link.
It's all very fascinating stuff... if it wasn't so fucked up.
I'm sure Ukraine is really happy that Russia protected them from "Western creep" (and also helped itself to some of its territory, because hey, why not?).
Except it's the majority of Ukrainians that want that relationship. It's not as if NATO was about to invade and steal Ukraine from Russian influence. The western creep as you call it, is not a creep at all.
Nikodemos
Member
If anything, the Eurocrats don't even want to expand the Union anymore. They've plenty problems already. That's why EU support has been so half-hearted. It's been mostly a one-sided relationship, with the Ukrainians leading the approachement efforts.
Putin's BS machine is really off-key in this one.
Putin's BS machine is really off-key in this one.
The only problem with that theory is that the treaty was already extended until 2042 back in 2010 and all of those leaked cables seem to predate that extension.
Ether_Snake
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Really? It was extended by a puppet regime, obviously when Yanukovych fled Russia knew that deal would be cancelled and the base would instead close in 2018. It's quite obvious Russia reacted to the fact that their man was no longer in power, so they knew a lot of what he did would be reverted, with no chance of putting another one in power.
So there is no problem with that "theory" from "Kiev Deputy Chief of Mission Sheila Gwaltney, who as it happens is now the highest ranking diplomat at the U.S. embassy in Moscow", GAFfer.
It's like if Karzai had agreed for the US to stay longer in Afghanistan, and then the Taliban comes to power and then the US is like "hey, Karzai extended the agreement, no worries".
Right, the issue I think to their mind is that the pro-Russian government was in real peril. They probably had no faith such an agreement would be continued into the future.
Or it's just wrong as a theory.
bonesmccoy
Banned
From what we've seen, it's very obvious most Ukrainians are not. What does this have to do with my post?
I'd call the gradual expansion of NATO into the former WP region a 'creep', since it fits in with the definition of the word.
Yanukovych's was a puppet regime?
I don't think it's accurate to call Yanukovich a "puppet regime", at least not back in 2010. He had been, by all accounts, fairly elected and he did not seem to be a Russian puppet. That's why he wanted to sign the EU agreement and not join the Russian customs union. Why exactly would the new government so obviously break off their treaty with Russia anyway? They desperately wanted to stabilize their economy which is highly dependent on Russia, so why would they want to antagonize Russia by breaking their treaties with them?
I'm not saying it's impossible that Russia would believe the new government would kick them out, but considering how quickly they moved in to take over the peninsula I think it's quite unlikely this is the main reason.
Roland Gunner
Banned
You seem to feel that Ukraine has no choice but to be dominated by Russia. If their people prefer to be aligned with the West, what right does Putin have to sweep in a take over part of the country?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Creepers gonna creep.
Sviatoslav
Member
The new government's mere existence antagonizes Russia.
Ukraine can be aligned with the West only if the West wants Ukraine to be aligned with it. They'd be fools not to.
At this point, nothing can really be done about Crimea- but the rest of Ukraine could be secured by a US/NATO troop presence (and that's different from US occupation).
Now I want to play a Civ round as Russia...
This is getting complicated. I look at it from America perspective. What if after Bush stole his election Al Gore and his supporters busted into the white house and took it over proclaiming now he is President. Bush went to the U.K for help since he is the rightful president and U.K. helped by kicking in the teeth of New York and taking it over from the illegal new government. Some Americans would be thrilled order was being restored and others would scream bloody murder. So eh I'm not sure if we should be involved at all or EU.
So they would willingly antagonize them even more? Considering the position they were in, I would imagine they would do as much as they reasonably could to try and work with Russia.
You missed the part where Bush started killing protesters. Remember, the Maidan protests did not demand that Yanukovich resign at first, they just wanted him to sign the EU trade deal like he had intended.
Is this bait or a real opinion?
My friends and relatives are starting to get moblisation notices... it is not mobilisation yet, but the notice says we should be prepared, when the call comes, to arrive to assembly points... Women are crying, sister of my wife tried to hide a military pass of her husband, he demanded it back and got it back after a huge scandal...
Fuck you putin, fuck you russia for bringing war to my country... i do not care about reasons, rules or law at the moment, just go and fuck yourself for acting like a middle age kingdom.
And shame on all of you russians supporting the invasion, it really hurts to see so uniform internal support of putins decisions . I have a lot of russian friends but avoiding them now, afraid to see that they support this horrible situation too...
God help us.
Fuck you putin, fuck you russia for bringing war to my country... i do not care about reasons, rules or law at the moment, just go and fuck yourself for acting like a middle age kingdom.
And shame on all of you russians supporting the invasion, it really hurts to see so uniform internal support of putins decisions . I have a lot of russian friends but avoiding them now, afraid to see that they support this horrible situation too...
God help us.
I think its a small projectile being sent to intercept the threat?
Damn dude. Don't die on us, you hear me! You better fucking survive!
The world would had been better without Russian oligarchs and power crazed freaks. Normal Russian people ain't to blame, its their leaders that brainwash them. Some are just simply following commands to scared to not follow orders.
I wish for a world where people like Putin would not exist.
I wish for a world where people like Putin would not exist.
Shit dude. I hope it doesn't come to all out war. stay safe
Shit man. I hope that it will sort out in the end.
It's not so uniform. There are plenty of reasonable people who do not support this nonsense (or even the current Russian state itself).
I'm sorry, but I think you're being overdramatic. It's a terrible situation, but you have keep your cool about it and keep in mind that the chances of actual military confrontation are rather small. Take the ousting of Yanukovich into consideration, as well as further alignment of Ukraine with "the west" (or, rather, the EU in this case), and one might say that you're being dealt a better hand than all the anti-Putin people in Russia. That's something.
JupitersClock
Banned
Did i really just read a post telling someone who is in the Ukraine and worried about the conflict, that they are being overdramatic?
The Living Tribunal
Member
Somebody who's friends and family are getting notice that they may have to soon report for military duty no less.
Stay safe. Russia is not a nice neighbor to have....wow. This might be one of the most self absorbed, missing the point posts I read in a while.
enanogrande
Member
This is some bullshit man... I can accept that yes, the chance of them going to war (and thus, him being told to mobilize) is low, but "overdramatic"? And telling him he's lucky that shit isn't worse? wtf
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