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[benjipwns]

The indisputable facts are these:
-The current President of the European Commission is a Roman Catholic.
-Roman Catholicism comes from Rome.
-Rome is in Italy.
-Italy was the birthplace of Fascism.

And Mussolini marched to where? That's right, Rome.

 

[curlyfriski]

Read some EV posts. They sound like sarcasm, but then he states that it is "indisputable fact"... I understand trolling, but this is more than that. This is painting the whole country in a negative light. Why?

Benjipwns is trolling (poorly). He's the one you were responding to. Empty is obviously not.

 

[Resident_UA]

The truths stated by the vanguard of the international proletariat always come off as trolling to those lost in the fog of false consciousness.

The indisputable facts are these:
-The current President of the European Commission is a Roman Catholic.
-Roman Catholicism comes from Rome.
-Rome is in Italy.
-Italy was the birthplace of Fascism.

And Mussolini marched to where? That's right, Rome.

.

 

[Resident_UA]

Benjipwns is trolling. He's the one you were responding to. Empty is obviously not.

I get it now. I'm just saying that it is impossible to tell these apart...

 

[benjipwns]

Benjipwns is trolling (poorly). He's the one you were responding to. Empty is obviously not.

EV's incorruptible posts are what lifted my veil of ignorance and fog of false consciousness.

 

[empty vessel]

By "overthrow" you mean there were protests and Obama left to stay in Canada.

No, I mean if Tea Party militants used weapons to seize territory and buildings and attack police, culminating in a threat to Obama's life such that he had to flee for his own safety.

If your understanding of what happened in Ukraine is that "there were protests and Yanukovych left," then you clearly have no genuine interest in understanding the world around you.

Here's EV during the Greek 2012 riots. Note that he's not worried about voting or polling here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35177749&postcount=138
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35259562&postcount=296

(1) Those posts do not reflect a belief that a putative political minority ought to be able to overthrow an elected government. You may need to know something about what was happening in Greece to understand that, but I think we've established your lack of interest in that regard. That said, I will freely concede that I did once believe that.

(2) If you are trying to expose a bias, I concede that I have preferences. For example, I am opposed to neoliberal rule. In the context of Ukraine, however, that preference is irrelevant, because both the US/EU and Russia are neoliberal powers and there appears to be no meaningful movement in opposition to neoliberal rule in Ukraine. I genuinely think Ukrainians are fucked no matter what until they organize themselves into a meaningful independence movement, so this issue is not personal to me at all (other than my opposition to my government's collaboration with fascists).

Read some EV posts. They sound like sarcasm, but then he states that it is "indisputable fact"... I understand trolling, but this is more than that. This is painting the whole country in a negative light. Why?

You do not read my posts carefully. If English is not your first language, that is understandable, but if your reading comprehension is not great, then please refrain from trying to characterize what I say.

 

[Resident_UA]

You do not read my posts carefully. If English is not your first language, that is understandable, but if your reading comprehension is not great, then please refrain from trying to characterize what I say.

So you are acknowledging that you are just trolling? Great!

In case you meant something else by this I quoted you a bunch of times. Things that you are saying are INSANE. Please provide a link where any government said that the fascists came to power in Ukraine. Thank you!

 

[empty vessel]

So you are acknowledging that you are just trolling? Great!

In case you meant something else by this I quoted you a bunch of times. Things that you are saying are INSANE. Please provide a link where any government said that the fascists came to power in Ukraine. Thank you!

It's unclear to me if you are genuinely in denial or a right-wing apologist for fascism. Here's what the EU parliament had to say about Svoboda in December of 2012: "The European Parliament ... Is concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda Party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada; recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU's fundamental values and principles and therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party."

And here is what a gentle and most credible Scotsman had to say about Svoboda's entrance into the installed government.

"These rightist-nationalist forces were in large part responsible for the collapse of the agreement signed in February that called for early parliamentary and presidential elections and a return to the 2004 Ukrainian constitution, which harks back to the "Orange Revolution" that brought a pro-West government to power in Ukraine.

In backing away from this face-saving compromise, one that was negotiated with the approval of the French, German and Polish governments, and which surely would have resulted in the removal of Yanukovych, moderate opposition leaders essentially capitulated to the far right.

 

[East Lake]

No, I mean if Tea Party militants used weapons to seize territory and buildings and attack police, culminating in a threat to Obama's life such that he had to flee for his own safety.

If your understanding of what happened in Ukraine is that "there were protests and Yanukovych left," then you clearly have no genuine interest in understanding the world around you.

No I'd like to continue with the analogy. So radical tea party members are coming after Obama so he signs some new anti-protest laws. With the protestors wild Obama offers to install Mike Huckabee, Palin, and other tea party favorites into his regime. Biden and other members of the cabinet resign. Abandoned by the military Obama is on the run only with some select secret service. You complete the story.

(1) Those posts do not reflect a belief that a putative political minority ought to be able to overthrow an elected government. You may need to know something about what was happening in Greece to understand that, but I think we've established your lack of interest in that regard. That said, I will freely concede that I did once believe that.

So you did believe it but you didn't there. I'm sure you don't change it to suit your politics.

(2) If you are trying to expose a bias, I concede that I have preferences. For example, I am opposed to neoliberal rule. In the context of Ukraine, however, that preference is irrelevant, because both the US/EU and Russia are neoliberal powers and there appears to be no meaningful movement in opposition to neoliberal rule in Ukraine. I genuinely think Ukrainians are fucked no matter what until they organize themselves into a meaningful independence movement, so this issue is not personal to me at all (other than my opposition to my government's collaboration with fascists).

You have a preference for non-western neoliberal rule, let's be clear. Whether there's state corruption or murder is irrelevant.

 

[Nilaul]

Its really simple:

If someone wants to live in another country (Russia), and lives somewhere else (Ukraine), under no condition should they expect and demand that the other country (Russia) invades and fulfills their wet dream. If that person lives in the another country he should agree with costumes and traditions of that country (as he is living on that countries land). If that person still wants to live in Russia, he should pack up his bags, sell his property and move Russia. If that person still doesn't understand that, then that country where he lives (Ukraine) has every right to kick him out.


Otherwise its like me moving to UK and then demanding/plotting that France invades UK.

 

[ksan]

People are allowed to have any revolution they want.
Well, unless they aren't directly in line with EV's ideology, because then his paternalism strikes. In those cases the law is valued over everything else, regardless if they didn't apply to the politicians.

Wonder what political group could have strikingly similar thoughts to that?

 

[empty vessel]

So you did believe it but you didn't there. I'm sure you don't change it to suit your politics.

What you linked to does not reflect that I did not believe it there. I am not opposed to revolutions, and have never said as much. I have expressed many times that I think even democratic governments can be legitimately overthrown. What I am opposed to is political minorities using force to take power from elected governments. All the more so political minorities seeking to empower fascists.

You have a preference for non-western neoliberal rule, let's be clear. Whether there's state corruption or murder is irrelevant.

I oppose neoliberal rule from anywhere (which contains within it state corruption and murder, incidentally). Unlike many here, I'm not a chauvinist. Of course, in this instance, Western neoliberalism has teamed up with fascism, so let's be clear that you are an ally of fascism, and for the all important goal of besting a neoliberal competitor for the spoils of a weak nation.

We all should be interested in learning how to prevent crises like this from happening. That can only occur if one is genuinely interested in understanding how crises like this begin. If Ukrainians are to subject themselves to neoliberal rule, then I don't care a wit to whom they decide to subject themselves. But I do care about whether my government had a role in provoking a crisis that has already led to bloodshed and could lead to more. And I do care about the empowerment of fascism in Europe or anywhere. And so should you.

 

[East Lake]

What you linked to does not reflect that I did not believe it there. I am not opposed to revolutions, and have never said as much. I have expressed many times that I think even democratic governments can be legitimately overthrown. What I am opposed to is political minorities using force to take power from elected governments. All the more so political minorities seeking to empower fascists.



I oppose neoliberal rule from anywhere (which contains within it state corruption and murder, incidentally). Unlike many here, I'm not a chauvinist. Of course, in this instance, Western neoliberalism has teamed up with fascism, so let's be clear that you are an ally of fascism, and for the all important goal of besting a neoliberal competitor for the spoils of a weak nation.

We all should be interested in learning how to prevent crises like this from happening. That can only occur if one is genuinely interested in understanding how crises like this begin. If Ukrainians are to subject themselves to neoliberal rule, then I don't care a wit to whom they decide to subject themselves. But I do care about whether my government had a role in provoking a crisis that has already led to bloodshed and could lead to more. And I do care about the empowerment of fascism in Europe or anywhere. And so should you.

You actually don't care about fascism and neither do I. At least not in the sense that we're actually worried about it. In fact you're not even interested in learning about Ukraine. Your first posts in this thread were easily summarized by "the west did it." That's because like the rest of us you weren't well versed in the day to day politics or history of Ukraine. Everything else after is ad hoc justification for that view. So you started with the premise that the CIA did it. Sure the was maybe some Yanukovych administration anti-democratic maneuvers, maybe some corruption, maybe some police aggression, but what about it? I haven't read the papers yet. Wait a minute fascist! DID SOMEONE SAY FASCIST! The imperialist pigs are at it again my friends! Let me tell you about the history of Ukraine!

 

[jakonovski]

The indisputable facts are these:
-The current President of the European Commission is a Roman Catholic.
-Roman Catholicism comes from Rome.
-Rome is in Italy.
-Italy was the birthplace of Fascism.

And Mussolini marched to where? That's right, Rome.

And what was the name of the town in the smash hit TV series Picket Fences, starring Tom Skerritt? That's right, Rome.

I rest my case.

 

[jakonovski]

You actually don't care about fascism and neither do I. At least not in the sense that we're actually worried about it. In fact you're not even interested in learning about Ukraine. Your first posts in this thread were easily summarized by "the west did it." That's because like the rest of us you weren't well versed in the day to day politics or history of Ukraine. Everything else after is ad hoc justification for that view. So you started with the premise that the CIA did it. Sure the was maybe some Yanukovych administration anti-democratic maneuvers, maybe some corruption, maybe some police aggression, but what about it? I haven't read the papers yet. Wait a minute fascist! DID SOMEONE SAY FASCIST! The imperialist pigs are at it again my friends! Let me tell you about the history of Ukraine!

And in the end he's just another American who thinks he knows better than the dirty foreigners (apologies to other Americans!).

 

[ICKE]

Moldova’s Breakaway Region Asks Putin to Recognize Sovereignty

Moldova’s breakaway pro-Russian region of Transnistria has appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin to recognize its independence after Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

The appeal by the Parliament of Transnistria, city and district council members and community associations “express the aspirations of the people of Transnistria” and is based on the results of referendums held in 1991, 1995 and 2006, the parliament of the unrecognized state said on its website.

Moldova, eastern Europe’s second-smallest economy, shares a border with Ukraine where tensions escalated after Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula. Moldova is on the verge of signing an association agreement with the European Union, while Transnistria wants to join Russia, Evgeny Shevchuk, president of the self-proclaimed republic, said April 7.

The Transnistrian parliament’s appeal is a “direct defiance” of Moldova’s territorial integrity and efforts to settle the territorial dispute, the country’s government said in a statement on its website.

According to the most recent referendum in 2006, 97.2 percent of Transnistrian voters favored joining Russia and 2.3 percent were opposed.

“Transnistria is a Russian-language land, more than 90 percent of Transnistrians speak and think in Russian,” the region’s parliament said in its statement.

-Bloomberg / CNN
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-16/moldova-s-breakaway-region-asks-putin-to-recognize-sovereignty.html

This was always going to happen, given how Moldova has tried to build closer ties with the EU.

 

[Resident_UA]

It's unclear to me if you are genuinely in denial or a right-wing apologist for fascism. Here's what the EU parliament had to say about Svoboda in December of 2012: "The European Parliament ... Is concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda Party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada; recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU's fundamental values and principles and therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party."

And here is what a gentle and most credible Scotsman had to say about Svoboda's entrance into the installed government.

WHAT THE FUCK?! This is not what I asked you! Stop dodging a question.

Please provide a link where any government said that the fascists came to power in Ukraine!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!

Just to clarify. I'm not asking about YOUR opinion or any other POLITICIAN'S opinion. I'm asking about the facts.