1936 Berlin Olympics.
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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo
- Thread starter Salvadora
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1936 Berlin Olympics.
Oh yes we would, but that's exactly why we have a base there. You don't wait until the shit hits the fan to build defenses.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Proof on all accounts.
shocking news, russian warships spotted near russian naval base
I wonder how much they can rely on their military. It's not like the current people in power have much of a democratic legitimacy themselves.
Yes.
CountAntonius
Member
God damn.
No nuclear power would directly attack another nuclear power. Since you have a base there Japan is a no-go for Russia or China.
fastford58
Member
As they are right to do so. The US has been fairly ambiguous on the status of the Senkakus and whether or not a war fought over them would trigger automatic US involvement on Japan's side. The Japanese can't afford ambiguity, they need to know if the US is 100% behind them. If not then Japan is right to re-arm and scrap Article 9.
If we didn't have a base there, but still had the same kind of treaty, think again.
You mean like on the Balkans?
Somebody there would put veto on agreement that water is really wet.
Came here to post this.
Of course not. But if Japan got into a naval clash on its northern border, say over fishing rights for Japanese fishermen in the disputed Kuril Islands area, would the US intervene on Japan's behalf? Same in the East China Sea, if the JMSDF got into a clash with the PLA Navy near the Senkakus would the US REALLY assist or would it come up with some excuse in order not to risk upsetting its largest creditor?
jufonuk
not tag worthy
I can't get way from this Issue, it's been dominating the days events at work.
now I got to the stage that unless anything is happening I am just going to keep monitoring the situation and not make judgments, I kind of had an over load of it.
Pics from Reuters and AP being playing out all day and live shots of what is happening in Kiev with the protesters gather in independence square in Kiev, I am curious and keep GAF up to see how the reporting on TV and web/GAF match or who has what news first.
not sounding callous of what is going on, I feel for those affected and I don't want anything to happen.
No worries, you guys can just sit back. Sweden's got it. We've got stealth boats. Stealth. Boats. And stealth tanks. And stealth subs. We're practically NOD at this point. Everyone just thinks we're weak as shit because they can't see our units.
You'll see! The Baltic will be our mare nostrum! Dominum maris baltici!
Those treaties are meaningless. You have no appetite for war. The Russian's know this and will ride roughshod all over it.
Oh really? Is that why Lockheed Marietta up the street from my office is losing jobs left and right? Defense contracts are getting cancelled, orders are shrinking.
Do you mean a general war between great powers? Or any army that has fought another?
Speaking of which I hope the 2018 World Cup in Russia is now taken off them.
Korea was the last time, China vs. US.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
If I would get a dollar every time some politician says the word "concerned" I'd be a fucking quadrillionair right now and would buy Crimea.
You don't know much about the FIFA right? They don't give a shit about anything.
Oh yeah I'm sure that would happen. :lol
Polishin8r
Member
Didn't the Polish president also want to install anti-nuclear defense system across its Eastern border also? Some time after the president died after the crash I remember hearing about some Polish generals attempting ( 1 did succeed?) at committing suicide some weird stuff.
They are not Russian citizens, they have lived in Ukraine for generations. Which means that they are not foreigners, they are Ukrainian citizens with, in some cases, centuries of history in Ukraine, living in particular places, having families and relatives in their respective areas. Do you understand that? You can't just move millions of people across the country at will.
You're proposing to somehow forcefully resettle those people just because you think that the government shouldn't want to have a large concentration of a particular ethnicity in a single place. I'm sorry, but this is indeed ethnic discrimination. This is what the nazis and the bolhseviks did. Such a cruel and stupid thing to say.
Interesting indeed, particularly if there's a possibility of cover for a bit of NATO brinksmanship in the Black Sea. Brass nethers to schedule a parade like that, however, and would almost certainly ratchet up tensions to an uncomfortable degree. Something to consider further down the line if Russia continues to abuse Ukraine.
Your conclusion makes no sense. Of course a nation that was way behind the military tech race would be growing faster once it started to modernize than the US who was already at the forefront of military tech. That doesnt mean that the United States is weakening, it simply means that other nations are buying and investing in military tech that is already out there.
And more efficiently? Where the hell is the proof of that? Just because China is a totalitarian regime does not mean that its more efficient than the US. The bureaucracy in China is not something that I would call efficient.
Not sure what debt has to do with it either.
Hahahaha.
Ether_Snake
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She didn't say anything, she was told what to say.
IdreamofHIME
Member
A split Ukraine is the only answer, but no one likes to see their country lose territory so instead of letting the West join Europe and the East join Russia, they will fight a bloody civil war instead.
joseph1594
Member
Russia is using the justification that troops need to be deployed "to protect the safety of Russians" in Ukraine. Putin got approval from the Russian parliament to deploy troops in all of Ukraine. It is pretty much an open secret that Russian troops are currently occupying Crimea at the moment. No one really knows how far Russia plans on going beyond Crimea as of right now.
True. Maybe Russian/European conflict would have been a better word choice. But the Balkans brings me to this somewhat interesting quote (albeit from wikipedia) that has some parallels to the attitudes seen throughout the thread and etc:
DoktorEvil
Banned
Where was this?
I don't know but that's nothing new. The UK had the same worries during the height of the cold war. The U.S. has already said the treaty would include Japan's dispute over Kuril Islands. If I was a betting man I would say yes we would intervene as that would be a direct assault to our world position.
Could be, but somebody was right about it.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/28/palin-on-ukraine-i-told-you-so/
Russia is stupid, what to they expect from this?
They cannot realistically occupy the whole of Ukraine. Ukrainian nationalists supplied with modern western equipment would make it a living hell for the Russian military.
All they get is Crimea, and at best a few eastern provinces where little resistance is to be expected.
In return they will be perceived again as a threat by all neighboring countries and drive them into the arms of NATO. Is that what Russia wants?
Jeez.
They cannot realistically occupy the whole of Ukraine. Ukrainian nationalists supplied with modern western equipment would make it a living hell for the Russian military.
All they get is Crimea, and at best a few eastern provinces where little resistance is to be expected.
In return they will be perceived again as a threat by all neighboring countries and drive them into the arms of NATO. Is that what Russia wants?
Jeez.
Ether_Snake
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fastford58
Member
Are you insinuating that China is at the same debt level and military expenditure levels as the US? They simply are not. And anyone following the news in the last 3 years knows that China has been on a military push.
Are you also saying that Chinese tech companies are mired in unionization and other NA business practices that bloat military spending? Again, China is under a different system.
Dollar for dollar, I guarantee China is getting more bang for their buck in military spending.
They are making technology advances at a faster and more efficient rate than the US has.
Now what I am not saying is that China is at the level of the US militarily, so don't get me wrong there.
I am saying that they are growing faster and more efficiently than the US is. That coupled with crippling debt in the US and many domestic/foreign problems, China's military is growing in strength, and the US is weakening in relative terms.
This has been pouring out of the headlines for years now...but I guess if you want me to go find debt numbers/military spending/tech/US military operation articles of the US vs. China, I can.
fastford58
Member
You don't believe that a nations debt doesn't directly affect their ability to enter and maintain a military operation? I mean, how much more debt could the US possibly go into before it collapses completely? Not much, I wager.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Trying too hard. US is miles ahead technologically because of decades of spending 20x as much as everyone else on conventional warfare tech. What you saw in Iraq and Afghanistan is no indication of what they are capable of in a true war.
BigWeather
Member
Germany also had the 1936 winter Olympics. Add to that that the 1940 summer and winter Olympics were awarded to Japan and the 1944 summer Olympics to Italy and... yeah. The IOC sure knows how to pick 'em. None of those happened, of course.
BigWeather
Member
Yeah, that'd be awesome. Shift it to the Baltic states and what remains of Ukraine to further twist the knife.
Hm are there any new news about new Russian forces landing on Crimea? It looks like nothing new after morning 'shipment'. Only reports of pro Russian rallies in several cities.
You should really read about FIFA and how 'transparent' they are.
You should really read about FIFA and how 'transparent' they are.
Unknown Soldier
Member
There will never be another "true war" if what you are talking about is massive scale land battles. The US dominance of conventional warfare means little when most modern wars are fought in the streets of ruined cities against irregular forces that use the urban landscape to hide from larger scale, better equipped forces.
A nation'a debt is an imaginary political construct. The US government creates dollars and in exchange for dollars hands out promises of dollars.
The vast majority of our "debt" is owed to ourselves. Explain how that is going to cause it to collapse.
The "classic" war is definitely over, the asymmetric warfare is the only war in the future.
You should read something about the different sports organization and their "no politics in sport" agenda.
No
Interest rates on American bonds are basically the lowest in the world. That means that the world market thinks that we are the safest investment in the world and that we will honor our debt. Debt only becomes an issue if the world market thinks that a nation won't or can't honor its debt and interest rates skyrocket.
The amount of debt or debt to gdp ratio really doesnt matter on this because a nation with low debt or a lower debt to gdp ratio could find themselves in a situation where their interest rates skyrocket because other nations do not have faith that they can pay back their obligations
I mean, hell, people before World War 1 thought that once a nation ran out of money the war would end. That sure as shit didnt come to pass because other nations, specifically the US, gave the Allies a shit ton of credit because it was in their interest to keep them fueled with money, munitions, and manpower
Basically, what I am saying is that its a lot more complicated than a high debt level. If a nation has access to the world market and access to outside credit, and the world market has faith in that nation to get it back, they will get credit. If its in another nation or nations interest for the warring nation to win, that nation will supply them with credit, munitions and supplies.
And just because we have a high debt doesnt really mean anything. We have a huge fucking economy. Our debt to gdp level is by no means absurd. Its frankly pretty average amongst other states. Japan, for example, has twice the debt to gdp level that we do.
There is also the contention that debt to gdp is a pretty simplistic measure that doesnt mean shit
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/02/27/debt_alarmist_chart.html
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