Alright, so I think I have finally figured out how to best communicate what I did not like about this game. And I think I can explain that easily using Chapter 21 as an example.
I see what you are saying; but really how long did the chapter take? 10 minutes at most? This isn't some 30 minute or hour long fetch quest bumping up an open world games playtime. To me that's a perfect amount of buffer between an intense fight and another intense section. It also gave Nate a chance to reflect on what has happened so far and you can hear him say some of it out loud. Also provided some really cool visuals. I actually loved that chapter as it gave me time to think about the story as well. It's probably a really poor chapter on subsequent play throughs but I'm willing to bet they tailored the game to the majority of people that will play it through once and be done.
It's perfectly fine to call it filler, I'd argue just the opposite. But I'm also surprised that you hate it so much that it's really harming your experience so much as to warrant very long posts discussing it. Most have a problem with the pacing, but it's a minor knock, seems it has borderline caused you some heartache.
This is actually one issue I have with the game, actually, albeit a minor one.
Before release, Neil was heavily hinting that the ending would make it hard for the series to continue, but they actually left quite a few characters open for sequels and spin offs.
It's a common tactic in the entertainment industry. Game of Thrones did the same thing at the end of the previous season.
Jon Snow is "as dead as dead can be, the director said." Great, but of course they fail to mention that he blood magic can bring him back to life. So what they're saying isn't false, but it also doesn't tell the whole story.
I feel like this is basically the same thing.
The ending makes it "hard for the franchise to continue". Nothing false about that. Nate is obviously done, settled down, and has a family. Nate was the franchise. Therefore "the franchise" can't continue. But that doesn't mean Sam or Cassie couldn't get their own new franchise that is basically the same but with a new main character, hell you might even see Nate make cameo appearances.
So... I finished.... started thinking and.... not the best use of their creation in my opinion. Naughty Dog made a ground breaking tech for the Uncharted 4. This is out of question, this is the most beautifull, most pleasing, more technical level of performance ever built in the video game history.
Image quality, animation, texture, modelling, lightining.... everything is stunning, from the beggining until the end of the 15 hour campaing.
But.... here it comes...
It is the most difficult Uncharted game created. The new shooting mechanic is fun, although not precise, it creates a fun and deep shotting gameplay (Multiplayer proves it's fair). But... there are not enough fights during the game. After The Last of Us, it was expected to Uncharted be a little bit toned down.... but I was not expecting this in the combat. There are only 5 chapters focused in combat from a total of
22 or 23 with the epilogue
. So, there aren't many encounters to prove the new combat is better from previous entries.
Second thing, and this is very spoilery.
WHY THROW SUCH AN AMZING CHAR IN THE GAME AND DON'T EXPLORE HER IN THE GAMEPLAY. I think Naughty Dog dropped the ball a lot with Nadine. Her first encounter with Nathan Drake was amazing, I had a lot of expectations to fight against her futher in the game and.... she throws me at a room and leave forever...... COME ON....
Fighting against her with Sam was so fun too, she's just bad ass and should be more explored.
And the ending is quiet.... Was expecting something bigger, not a cargo plane or train wreck big, but.... not that fight. The new gameplay addition at the end didn't bother me, actually it surprised me. I like it and thought was fun.
Ok.... back to the topic that I want to discuss... the Story DLC. Didn't find anyone guessing where it takes place, but my bet is....
Sam leaving prison and going after the treasure with Rafe. They fight against each other and Sam goes after Nathan
Sorry ND, I love you guys, but my final score and with a lot of tears in my eyes, I would give 8,5 out of 10 for Uncharted 4.
Alright, so I think I have finally figured out how to best communicate what I did not like about this game. And I think I can explain that easily using Chapter 21 as an example.
Spoilers, obviously.
Chapter 21 opens after an explosive, exciting escape Chapter 20, with Nate and co. retreating from Nadine's army and fighting their way through some exciting battle. Chapter 21 on paper serves as somewhat of a "cooldown" chapter after the exhilarating previous one. Unfortunately, it kind of spoils the ramp-up pacing leading up to the end game and the final encounter. It's just kind of...there.
Chapter 21 is just a traversal chapter. That's it. Nate leaves behind Sully and Elena to go rescue his brother. It leaves Nate alone to get to the Avery's ship and rescue his brother. He climbs a lot of stuff. I'll give it to the game that this traversal chapter is slightly more interesting than the rest, with some nice views and some non-obvious pathing, but it's still there, feeling completely out of place after the ramp-up of 20 and the dramatic conclusion that happens in 22. As weird as it sounds, it feels like filler.
And this permeates through U4 in general, but I think this chapter is the most clear example, because it possibly sours the dramatic build-up that happened in the previous chapters and just exists, seemingly, to give the player a break from the action. But what's so wrong with a break?
Well, nothing, on paper. In some chapters in U4 there are segments of no combat traversal that yield some interesting character development. Nate and his bro share some memories, reminisce, or dig up some of their feelings. Although not exciting in an action-adventure way, these serve a purpose to propel the characters forward through the story. There is something to be said of where these are placed and why they sometimes don't work quite well sandwiched between exciting setpieces, but that's another criticism that we've been through over and over again.
Chapter 21, however, is just there. You traverse some environments and reach your destination. It feels like player busywork before the big payoff. And it brings me to what I feel like Uncharted 4 so desperately needs: editing.
Editing, of course, is a film term, not really a game one. But because this series so much seeks to emulate the medium of film, I feel like I need to criticize it through the lens of film in some respects. In a movie, after a huge action setpiece moment a la Chapter 20, the action movie would likely take a little break. Give the characters some small time to take a breather, talk about something, and then finally allow the main character to make the journey up the cliff to save his half-wit brother. But the difference? The movie wouldn't spend 20 minutes on the protagonist's climb up the mountain, because that is god damn boring and completely breaks the pacing. And I must ask , why the hell does ND think that is important to experience? We, as the player, have done dozens of traversal sections when we get to this chapter, we get the jist. At this point in the story we want to see the ending, to see what happens, who lives and dies, etc. What we don't really want is to scale yet another cliffside for the hundreth time for 20 minutes. Wouldn't it be great if U4 trusts the player to "get" it on their own, and do some obvious cliff montage. Wouldn't it be great if they just did a cinematic of Drake climbing the mountain, using some quick edits, and a few key player interaction moments during some exciting jumps. We don't need to be in it for half an hour to get that Drake is climbing that mountain. We don't need to be with him that entire time. We can be trusted to understand how edits work.
And it's not just this example, U4 does this all the time, with little things. Pushing a box around for a handful of minutes here, moving a crate over there, solving a completely obvious environmental puzzle to proceed, doing some half-assed traversal in order to make it to your destination. Little road blocks that break up the pacing. Small moments that serve no greater narrative purpose nor give the player anything interesting to do with gameplay. And it's not like they are a spectacle, either. They are busywork. It's just downtime for the sake of downtime.
This permeates the game, and, in my opinion, has no place in it. There are parts of Uncharted 4 where I feel like I'm watching The Revenant in slow motion.
I am sending you a mother fucking friend request. lol
The worst example of this comes in Chapter 16 when you have just gone through a setpiece after literally hours of walking. Just when you think the game is going to pick up they literally stop you on your tracks and have you play a half an hour long chapter where you do absolutely nothing but press triangle every now and then. it's bizarre.
This is a great point. The autoplatforming does work pretty well in combat with the open level design, but the extended sequences of pure platforming just drag. The first half of
13
was particularly bad, I thought, especially sequenced after 12 which was literally
Oh, i just remembered another thing: Please, no matter how stupidly trivial the puzzles are, stop telling us the solution before i even start looking around the room, ffs.
Enter a room with massive puzzle, and before i can even move, Drake goes something like "Oh, i bet i have to align the symbols!" or some shit.
I mean at that point just have it be a cutscene, if you're afraid people can't solve even basic riddles.
Uncharted 4 is really awesome. Started with the story on friday on extreme hard. And yea. It was really hard. Died 797 times if the statistics are not bugged.
Visuals are awesome. Have to play it once more just to take more screenshots. Best Game for PS4 so far (I don't count The Last of Us Remastered) .
€: Some unny things I noticed with the german synchronisation: German voice of Henry (TLOU) is the same as the voice of Jameson. Orca has the same voice as Bill (^__^). Sam the same as Joel (thats logical I think) and some of the other bad guys have the same voice than some hunters of The Last of Us.
Alright, so I think I have finally figured out how to best communicate what I did not like about this game. And I think I can explain that easily using Chapter 21 as an example.
Spoilers, obviously.
Chapter 21 opens after an explosive, exciting escape Chapter 20, with Nate and co. retreating from Nadine's army and fighting their way through some exciting battle. Chapter 21 on paper serves as somewhat of a "cooldown" chapter after the exhilarating previous one. Unfortunately, it kind of spoils the ramp-up pacing leading up to the end game and the final encounter. It's just kind of...there.
Chapter 21 is just a traversal chapter. That's it. Nate leaves behind Sully and Elena to go rescue his brother. It leaves Nate alone to get to the Avery's ship and rescue his brother. He climbs a lot of stuff. I'll give it to the game that this traversal chapter is slightly more interesting than the rest, with some nice views and some non-obvious pathing, but it's still there, feeling completely out of place after the ramp-up of 20 and the dramatic conclusion that happens in 22. As weird as it sounds, it feels like filler.
And this permeates through U4 in general, but I think this chapter is the most clear example, because it possibly sours the dramatic build-up that happened in the previous chapters and just exists, seemingly, to give the player a break from the action. But what's so wrong with a break?
Well, nothing, on paper. In some chapters in U4 there are segments of no combat traversal that yield some interesting character development. Nate and his bro share some memories, reminisce, or dig up some of their feelings. Although not exciting in an action-adventure way, these serve a purpose to propel the characters forward through the story. There is something to be said of where these are placed and why they sometimes don't work quite well sandwiched between exciting setpieces, but that's another criticism that we've been through over and over again.
Chapter 21, however, is just there. You traverse some environments and reach your destination. It feels like player busywork before the big payoff. And it brings me to what I feel like Uncharted 4 so desperately needs: editing.
Editing, of course, is a film term, not really a game one. But because this series so much seeks to emulate the medium of film, I feel like I need to criticize it through the lens of film in some respects. In a movie, after a huge action setpiece moment a la Chapter 20, the action movie would likely take a little break. Give the characters some small time to take a breather, talk about something, and then finally allow the main character to make the journey up the cliff to save his half-wit brother. But the difference? The movie wouldn't spend 20 minutes on the protagonist's climb up the mountain, because that is god damn boring and completely breaks the pacing. And I must ask , why the hell does ND think that is important to experience? We, as the player, have done dozens of traversal sections when we get to this chapter, we get the jist. At this point in the story we want to see the ending, to see what happens, who lives and dies, etc. What we don't really want is to scale yet another cliffside for the hundreth time for 20 minutes. Wouldn't it be great if U4 trusts the player to "get" it on their own, and do some obvious cliff montage. Wouldn't it be great if they just did a cinematic of Drake climbing the mountain, using some quick edits, and a few key player interaction moments during some exciting jumps. We don't need to be in it for half an hour to get that Drake is climbing that mountain. We don't need to be with him that entire time. We can be trusted to understand how edits work.
And it's not just this example, U4 does this all the time, with little things. Pushing a box around for a handful of minutes here, moving a crate over there, solving a completely obvious environmental puzzle to proceed, doing some half-assed traversal in order to make it to your destination. Little road blocks that break up the pacing. Small moments that serve no greater narrative purpose nor give the player anything interesting to do with gameplay. And it's not like they are a spectacle, either. They are busywork. It's just downtime for the sake of downtime.
This permeates the game, and, in my opinion, has no place in it. There are parts of Uncharted 4 where I feel like I'm watching The Revenant in slow motion.
I agree that 21 feels like it's just there. I'm including everything from when
Sully returns. I know technically 21 starts later though.
It works the first time through for the story, but even then when 22 appears on the screen, I was like "Oh, that's it?" No crazy setpiece or combat arena. It totally feels misplaced. The game is really self-indulgent at times. We've already had a ton of
downtime chapters by this point and ND thought it was a good idea to make the penultimate chapter solely traversal. It's just not as satisfying as it should be.
I am sending you a mother fucking friend request. lol
The worst example of this comes in Chapter 16 when you have just gone through a setpiece after literally hours of walking. Just when you think the game is going to pick up they literally stop you on your tracks and have you play a half an hour long chapter where you do absolutely nothing but press triangle every now and then. it's bizarre.
Meh, seeing it and playing it are two different things! I thoroughly enjoyed that set piece even though I saw it many times, it was the best one of the series IMO.
Uncharted 4 is really awesome. Started with the story on friday on extreme hard. And yea. It was really hard. Died 797 times if the statistics are not bugged.
Visuals are awesome. Have to play it once more just to take more screenshots. Best Game for PS4 so far (I don't count The Last of Us Remastered) .
: Some unny things I noticed with the german synchronisation: German voice of Henry (TLOU) is the same as the voice of Jameson. Orca has the same voice as Bill (^__^). Sam the same as Joel (thats logical I think) and some of the other bad guys have the same voice than some hunters of The Last of Us.
Damn! that's souns like a pain in the ass, I played it on hard and died 128 times and though that it spoiled me some of the fun, don't even want to imagine 797!
Maybe I'm doing something wrong when it comes to the combat but even on normal difficulty, doing things like the rope swing takedowns and melee combos were getting me killed (or close to death) because I was getting pinged at the entire time from range whenever I was pulling those moves off.
The only time I could pull off any movie action moves without ending up black and white and moments from death was when I started moves off from stealth. You're often surrounded, either at the beginning of a loud encounter or shortly afterwards as the reinforcements come in from all angles, which should push you to keep moving rather than sticking to cover, but you're going to get pinged while in motion too as the enemies are very accurate.
How are you guys finding the run and gun working in your experience? Are you playing defensive? Rolling everywhere? The combat system feels overbalanced towards stealth, firing some bursts from stealth, breaking line of sight to shift back into stealth and then popping out for a few quick bursts again, or a stealth melee kill if you're close. Otherwise I find I'm taking too many hits, and that keeps me from doing the more cool, over the top moves.
You can go in and out of stealth in a fight just by moving, this moments give you openings for finishing aereal moves.
Another good way to take advantage is the steel fist combo, meaning, you can stagger enemies with some blind fire or running and guning and then finishing them with melee.
You can go in and out of stealth in a fight just by moving, this moments give you openings for finishing aereal moves.
Another good way to take advantage is the steel fist combo, meaning, you can stagger enemies with some blind fire or running and guning and then finishing them with melee.
hmm, i've always felt like the encounters near the end of UC 1-3 felt like filler. like there was a sense of urgency to get to the last boss yet they just kept throwing tank enemies/blue guys/red guys at you to pad the length.
i thought it was cool that they kinda subverted that in this one and just went "nah, you'll get to the ending quietly and without much resistance."
None of that affects what I said, It's nice that they made
Elena a major part of the game
but that has absolutely no bearing over the fact that the setting/gameplay gets really repetitive toward this half of the game. You can still have the ladder without the former and it could have really helped the pacing of the game imo.
In all fairness if you read that review its kind of bullshit, and then doesn't even post a score with the review. They sketchily sent it in to metacritic.
On another note... i ACTIVELY searched for treasure and ended up only finding about 40% by the end.
everytime i found one i looked and saw a bunch of ??? above it and kept thinking "how the fuck did i miss 4 in a row... i searched everywhere!!!" buuuut it gives me something to look forward to finishing on my second playthrough.
Pretty proud of my treasure hunting abilities on this one. Found about 80 treasures on my first playthrough. Looking at the number of unlock points I have I think I'm more than good enough to buy every unlockable that I could want so I doubt I will look for any more on my future playthroughs.
Damn! that's souns like a pain in the ass, I played it on hard and died 128 times and though that it spoiled me some of the fun, don't even want to imagine 797!
I always thought positive
On the one hand it was really annoying and I really was about to smash my controller into the TV. But on the other hand that are the moments I love. Especially when I remember back in a few months That feeling if you kill all enemies and everything is quiet is so awesome.
man this game really is a slow burn. even more so than tlou. assuming shit is about to hit the fan though as it looks like i just reached the city area from the e3 demo.
Just finished replaying 21 too actually and another thing that annoys me about it is that not only is it
solely platforming, but it isn't even visually unique. Other than that nice view we get of the ship at one point, it played and looked like it could've been chapter 12 or 13. There's not much that gives it it's own flavor and this is the game's penultimate chapter. We use the pick a lot in the 13 too! It totally feels like filler.
Washington Post sent the score in to Metacritic. We have no idea how they came to that decision, at least I don't. I think that is why it doesn't sit right with people.
hmm, i've always felt like the encounters near the end of UC 1-3 felt like filler. like there was a sense of urgency to get to the last boss yet they just kept throwing tank enemies/blue guys/red guys at you to pad the length.
i thought it was cool that they kinda subverted that in this one and just went "nah, you'll get to the ending quietly and without much resistance."
Washington Post sent the score in to Metacritic. We have no idea how they came to that decision, at least I don't. I think that is why it doesn't sit right with people.
You can go in and out of stealth in a fight just by moving, this moments give you openings for finishing aereal moves.
Another good way to take advantage is the steel fist combo, meaning, you can stagger enemies with some blind fire or running and guning and then finishing them with melee.
Nice video, thanks. That looks similar to what I was talking about - hit and run stealth oriented attacks. If you're in the open, even at full speed, with dodges, climbing or swinging you're still going to go black and white because enemies will ping you from range the entire time.
I kindof wish the game was balanced to make enemies far less accurate while you were in full motion, swinging or doing melee. That way you wouldn't have to rely quite so much upon losing line of sight and stealth, and could pull off more action adventure movie stuff.
Maybe the co-op to come could mitigate this as enemy attention will be split across players.
Can I just gush for a moment and say that I think Druckmann/Straley are just 2/2 for in knocking their endings out of the park?
Major spoilers for TLOU and UC4:
I remember all of the speculation before the release of TLOU was whether Joel or Ellie would die tragically. Few predicted that neither would die. Further the game still managed to pull off having both survive and yet making the game perhaps more tragic in the process.
With UC4, there was plenty of speculation that Nate or Sam was going to buy it. Especially with the whole narrative of "It's the TLOU guys. It's totally going to be dark and depressing." And they end up pulling off one of the happiest endings I've seen in I don't know how long. And it's entirely earned. The entire game is leading to giving these characters this ending.
Also, I think they really brought something back to Elena that was missing in UC3.
Replaying UC1-3 a couple of weeks ago highlighted that UC3 was missing that spark where Elena enjoyed the adventure almost as much as Nate. There's a point in UC1 where Nate wants to throw in the towel and it's Elena pushing to continue on. With UC2 you have Elena who is voluntarily putting herself in a very dangerous situation pursuing a warlord before Nate even enters the picture.
However in UC3 while Elena is certainly willing to put her life on the line finding Sully there isn't the same sense of adventure about her.
I love that UC4 put so much time in reconciling that aspect of her character.
You can go in and out of stealth in a fight just by moving, this moments give you openings for finishing aereal moves.
Another good way to take advantage is the steel fist combo, meaning, you can stagger enemies with some blind fire or running and guning and then finishing them with melee.
Wonder how well this works on Crushing. Towards the end of the game where you're in New Devon and you have to swim across a big lake and get to a structure with lots of enemies, there was a point where the only way I could beat it was to swim under the building to the middle. Pop my head up, climb a ladder, kill one guy, dive under water back into the middle of the building until they lose aggro, then repeat until I had killed all 15-20 enemies. Was pretty immersion breaking and cheesy, but it was the only way I could get it done.
My first time through I found the pacing quite frustrating in that I never got to let loose for as much as I wanted to, the game always dragged me to a halt.
I'm going to let it simmer for a week and play some multiplayer, maybe pick up Doom, then start it again at the weekend and see how I feel about it now I know what I'm in for. I like the slower parts I just love the action.
Whatever my overall opinion of the campaign is, the game NEEDS more single player action content, even if it's just horde or challenge mode, because it's just so good. I refuse to believe that Uncharted 4s action gameplay will be confined to just this campaign.
People who don't like Chapter 16 are nuts. I was planning to stop playing after 15, but I knew as soon as 16 started I was hooked and, of course, ended up playing right through to the end.
I loved the first flashback and didn't expect to get another one, so not only was it a surprise but it probably filled out more backstory than anything we'd seen before AND foreshadowed what eventually becomes of treasure hunters by putting you in what's pretty much a giant version of Nate's attic, lived in by a woman who has become estranged from everyone in her life in her pursuit of treasure.
We see Nate's first steps to becoming a treasure hunter, contrasted by the grim fate that would await him if he's not careful. His interactions with Elena in the following scenes are what will determine whether he goes down that path or not, giving weight and consequence to their problems. It's so goddamn perfect.
People who don't like Chapter 16 are nuts. I was planning to stop playing after 15, but I knew as soon as 16 started I was hooked and, of course, ended up playing right through to the end.
I loved the first flashback and didn't expect to get another one, so not only was it a surprise but it probably filled out more backstory than anything we'd seen before AND foreshadowed what eventually becomes of treasure hunters by putting you in what's pretty much a giant version of Nate's attic, lived in by a woman who has become estranged from everyone in her life in her pursuit of treasure.
We see Nate's first steps to becoming a treasure hunter, contrasted by the grim fate that would await him if he's not careful. His interactions with Elena in the following scenes are what will determine whether he goes down that path or not, giving weight and consequence to their problems. It's so goddamn perfect.
People who don't like Chapter 16 are nuts. I was planning to stop playing after 15, but I knew as soon as 16 started I was hooked and, of course, ended up playing right through to the end.
I loved the first flashback and didn't expect to get another one, so not only was it a surprise but it probably filled out more backstory than anything we'd seen before AND foreshadowed what eventually becomes of treasure hunters by putting you in what's pretty much a giant version of Nate's attic, lived in by a woman who has become estranged from everyone in her life in her pursuit of treasure.
We see Nate's first steps to becoming a treasure hunter, contrasted by the grim fate that would await him if he's not careful. His interactions with Elena in the following scenes are what will determine whether he goes down that path or not, giving weight and consequence to their problems. It's so goddamn perfect.
Yes! Otherwise it wouldn't been far too easy to say "Fuck that guy" and there would be little justification for the player (or Elena) to want to save him.
Finally started playing it the last night. Man, it feels almost surreal to play the new Uncharted game. The wait seemed enormous somehow. I also can't believe just how perfect everything about it feels so far. I can tell I'm going to love this by the time it's done, and feel terrible that there won't be more to experience once I'm done.
It's amazing how much variety there has been already in just the first hour of the game, even more amazing how easily the game transports you into all these places, and makes you feel like a part of it. All perfectly coherent and believable. It's astounding how great the game looks, animates and controls too, and I've probably seen nothing yet.
Not sure. Maybe people are mistaking it for satire when it isn't. Reading the twitter comments it seems like it might actually be real. Oh well doesn't matter either way. Guy hates Uncharted, big deal.
Alright, so I think I have finally figured out how to best communicate what I did not like about this game. And I think I can explain that easily using Chapter 21 as an example.
Spoilers, obviously.
Chapter 21 opens after an explosive, exciting escape Chapter 20, with Nate and co. retreating from Nadine's army and fighting their way through some exciting battle. Chapter 21 on paper serves as somewhat of a "cooldown" chapter after the exhilarating previous one. Unfortunately, it kind of spoils the ramp-up pacing leading up to the end game and the final encounter. It's just kind of...there.
Chapter 21 is just a traversal chapter. That's it. Nate leaves behind Sully and Elena to go rescue his brother. It leaves Nate alone to get to the Avery's ship and rescue his brother. He climbs a lot of stuff. I'll give it to the game that this traversal chapter is slightly more interesting than the rest, with some nice views and some non-obvious pathing, but it's still there, feeling completely out of place after the ramp-up of 20 and the dramatic conclusion that happens in 22. As weird as it sounds, it feels like filler.
And this permeates through U4 in general, but I think this chapter is the most clear example, because it possibly sours the dramatic build-up that happened in the previous chapters and just exists, seemingly, to give the player a break from the action. But what's so wrong with a break?
Well, nothing, on paper. In some chapters in U4 there are segments of no combat traversal that yield some interesting character development. Nate and his bro share some memories, reminisce, or dig up some of their feelings. Although not exciting in an action-adventure way, these serve a purpose to propel the characters forward through the story. There is something to be said of where these are placed and why they sometimes don't work quite well sandwiched between exciting setpieces, but that's another criticism that we've been through over and over again.
Chapter 21, however, is just there. You traverse some environments and reach your destination. It feels like player busywork before the big payoff. And it brings me to what I feel like Uncharted 4 so desperately needs: editing.
Editing, of course, is a film term, not really a game one. But because this series so much seeks to emulate the medium of film, I feel like I need to criticize it through the lens of film in some respects. In a movie, after a huge action setpiece moment a la Chapter 20, the action movie would likely take a little break. Give the characters some small time to take a breather, talk about something, and then finally allow the main character to make the journey up the cliff to save his half-wit brother. But the difference? The movie wouldn't spend 20 minutes on the protagonist's climb up the mountain, because that is god damn boring and completely breaks the pacing. And I must ask , why the hell does ND think that is important to experience? We, as the player, have done dozens of traversal sections when we get to this chapter, we get the jist. At this point in the story we want to see the ending, to see what happens, who lives and dies, etc. What we don't really want is to scale yet another cliffside for the hundreth time for 20 minutes. Wouldn't it be great if U4 trusts the player to "get" it on their own, and do some obvious cliff montage. Wouldn't it be great if they just did a cinematic of Drake climbing the mountain, using some quick edits, and a few key player interaction moments during some exciting jumps. We don't need to be in it for half an hour to get that Drake is climbing that mountain. We don't need to be with him that entire time. We can be trusted to understand how edits work.
And it's not just this example, U4 does this all the time, with little things. Pushing a box around for a handful of minutes here, moving a crate over there, solving a completely obvious environmental puzzle to proceed, doing some half-assed traversal in order to make it to your destination. Little road blocks that break up the pacing. Small moments that serve no greater narrative purpose nor give the player anything interesting to do with gameplay. And it's not like they are a spectacle, either. They are busywork. It's just downtime for the sake of downtime.
This permeates the game, and, in my opinion, has no place in it. There are parts of Uncharted 4 where I feel like I'm watching The Revenant in slow motion.
The other one that stood out to me is...I think 12 into 13?
The boat chapter on the island. Again, stand alone, I'm fine with this. It happens right after the most high octane setpiece in the entire game, and has similar things that you mention (Sam & Nate character moments) though it perhaps lasts overly long with the sheer amount of climbing and crate pushing. But what gets me is how this mirrors UC2, and what they did differently--the opening setpiece. Once you solve some puzzles and get back outside on the island, you clearly notice the storm brewing. It's a cool moment that signals to the player that it's going to lead into the boat segment the game opened with.
However...it skips it. After this slow chapter that builds up, you are thrust into 13. Marooned. On a rainy island, slowly walking for awhile. Then climbing, meeting up with sam, etc. It's VERY slow and follows an already slow chapter, actually playing that setpiece at the start and covering it with a few quick flashes in a cutscene felt like it was missing in a spot where it was sorely needed.
UC2 opens with you climbing a train, without telling what happened to get here. Once you get the scene with Elena picking you up in the jeep and jump to the train ingame, the player KNOWS this is going to end poorly, but get to see it all unfold. Then they play a shortened version of the intro. It was much more effectively done, as opposed to the UC4 handling.
This is the type of stuff people talking about the pacing are talking about. It's not like our hands are shaking after 5 minutes of not killing someone.
Not sure. Maybe people are mistaking it for satire when it isn't. Reading the twitter comments it seems like it might actually be real. Oh well doesn't matter either way. Guy hates Uncharted, big deal.
The other one that stood out to me is...I think 12 into 13?
The boat chapter on the island. Again, stand alone, I'm fine with this. It happens right after the most high octane setpiece in the entire game, and has similar things that you mention (Sam & Nate character moments) though it perhaps lasts overly long with the sheer amount of climbing and crate pushing. But what gets me is how this mirrors UC2, and what they did differently--the opening setpiece. Once you solve some puzzles and get back outside on the island, you clearly notice the storm brewing. It's a cool moment that signals to the player that it's going to lead into the boat segment the game opened with.
However...it skips it. After this slow chapter that builds up, you are thrust into 13. Marooned. On a rainy island, slowly walking for awhile. Then climbing, meeting up with sam, etc. It's VERY slow and follows an already slow chapter, actually playing that setpiece at the start and covering it with a few quick flashes in a cutscene felt like it was missing in a spot where it was sorely needed.
UC2 opens with you climbing a train, without telling what happened to get here. Once you get the scene with Elena picking you up in the jeep and jump to the train ingame, the player KNOWS this is going to end poorly, but get to see it all unfold. Then they play a shortened version of the intro. It was much more effectively done, as opposed to the UC4 handling.
This is the type of stuff people talking about the pacing are talking about. It's not like our hands are shaking after 5 minutes of not killing someone.
This this this this. It's a perfect example of how U2 handled things differently, how it should be handled. One provides an excellent gaming experience, one of the greatest in gaming history, the other just cutout the action.
The other one that stood out to me is...I think 12 into 13?
The boat chapter on the island. Again, stand alone, I'm fine with this. It happens right after the most high octane setpiece in the entire game, and has similar things that you mention (Sam & Nate character moments) though it perhaps lasts overly long with the sheer amount of climbing and crate pushing. But what gets me is how this mirrors UC2, and what they did differently--the opening setpiece. Once you solve some puzzles and get back outside on the island, you clearly notice the storm brewing. It's a cool moment that signals to the player that it's going to lead into the boat segment the game opened with.
However...it skips it. After this slow chapter that builds up, you are thrust into 13. Marooned. On a rainy island, slowly walking for awhile. Then climbing, meeting up with sam, etc. It's VERY slow and follows an already slow chapter, actually playing that setpiece at the start and covering it with a few quick flashes in a cutscene felt like it was missing in a spot where it was sorely needed.
UC2 opens with you climbing a train, without telling what happened to get here. Once you get the scene with Elena picking you up in the jeep and jump to the train ingame, the player KNOWS this is going to end poorly, but get to see it all unfold. Then they play a shortened version of the intro. It was much more effectively done, as opposed to the UC4 handling.
This is the type of stuff people talking about the pacing are talking about. It's not like our hands are shaking after 5 minutes of not killing someone.
Yes to all of this. I think 12-13, 14-16 and the end of 20 through 21 are all pretty jarring sections. 12 was absolutely fine in a vacuum, but it doesn't work with the way the game is structured following that.
The other one that stood out to me is...I think 12 into 13?
The boat chapter on the island. Again, stand alone, I'm fine with this. It happens right after the most high octane setpiece in the entire game, and has similar things that you mention (Sam & Nate character moments) though it perhaps lasts overly long with the sheer amount of climbing and crate pushing. But what gets me is how this mirrors UC2, and what they did differently--the opening setpiece. Once you solve some puzzles and get back outside on the island, you clearly notice the storm brewing. It's a cool moment that signals to the player that it's going to lead into the boat segment the game opened with.
However...it skips it. After this slow chapter that builds up, you are thrust into 13. Marooned. On a rainy island, slowly walking for awhile. Then climbing, meeting up with sam, etc. It's VERY slow and follows an already slow chapter, actually playing that setpiece at the start and covering it with a few quick flashes in a cutscene felt like it was missing in a spot where it was sorely needed.
UC2 opens with you climbing a train, without telling what happened to get here. Once you get the scene with Elena picking you up in the jeep and jump to the train ingame, the player KNOWS this is going to end poorly, but get to see it all unfold. Then they play a shortened version of the intro. It was much more effectively done, as opposed to the UC4 handling.
This is the type of stuff people talking about the pacing are talking about. It's not like our hands are shaking after 5 minutes of not killing someone.
It's interesting- I can see why they opened the game with that boat chase. However it would indeed change things up a bit by inserting an action bit there if it had been presented chronologically.
I do wish that scene was fully replayable at that point in the story because it was a damn fun sequence. Unlike in Uncharted 2 where there is really zero fun to be had redoing the train climb and tutorial stuff at the top of the cliff.
That being said, I don't think it signficantly hurts the pacing.
I do think people forget that Uncharted 2 had 3 full chapters of downtime following the Train Sequence (other than the 2 minute Yeti sequence).
This this this this. It's a perfect example of how U2 handled things differently, how it should be handled. One provides an excellent gaming experience, one of the greatest in gaming history, the other just cutout the action.
It's a five minute review and the guy barely talks about gameplay. He frames everything in story terms, even the gameplay. He says the setpieces are the best in the series which is bizarre considering there are only a couple of them and aside from the chapter 11 setpiece, they are mostly running away from things while things explode around you. Very simple. nothing complex like the train and tank sequences in U2 and the ship and plane sequences in U3.
What really irks me is how little he discusses the gameplay here. Every time he talks, he is gushing about it as if he is aiming to get one of his quotes on the back cover of the game. He never describes any mechanics in detail.
It's basically the Washington Post review in reverse. the WP guy hated the story where he loved it. Neither talk or care about the gameplay or the issues with the gameplay.
You are reviewing a game here folks. Review the game part of it.
Alright, so I think I have finally figured out how to best communicate what I did not like about this game. And I think I can explain that easily using Chapter 21 as an example.
Spoilers, obviously.
Chapter 21 opens after an explosive, exciting escape Chapter 20, with Nate and co. retreating from Nadine's army and fighting their way through some exciting battle. Chapter 21 on paper serves as somewhat of a "cooldown" chapter after the exhilarating previous one. Unfortunately, it kind of spoils the ramp-up pacing leading up to the end game and the final encounter. It's just kind of...there.
Chapter 21 is just a traversal chapter. That's it. Nate leaves behind Sully and Elena to go rescue his brother. It leaves Nate alone to get to the Avery's ship and rescue his brother. He climbs a lot of stuff. I'll give it to the game that this traversal chapter is slightly more interesting than the rest, with some nice views and some non-obvious pathing, but it's still there, feeling completely out of place after the ramp-up of 20 and the dramatic conclusion that happens in 22. As weird as it sounds, it feels like filler.
And this permeates through U4 in general, but I think this chapter is the most clear example, because it possibly sours the dramatic build-up that happened in the previous chapters and just exists, seemingly, to give the player a break from the action. But what's so wrong with a break?
Well, nothing, on paper. In some chapters in U4 there are segments of no combat traversal that yield some interesting character development. Nate and his bro share some memories, reminisce, or dig up some of their feelings. Although not exciting in an action-adventure way, these serve a purpose to propel the characters forward through the story. There is something to be said of where these are placed and why they sometimes don't work quite well sandwiched between exciting setpieces, but that's another criticism that we've been through over and over again.
Chapter 21, however, is just there. You traverse some environments and reach your destination. It feels like player busywork before the big payoff. And it brings me to what I feel like Uncharted 4 so desperately needs: editing.
Editing, of course, is a film term, not really a game one. But because this series so much seeks to emulate the medium of film, I feel like I need to criticize it through the lens of film in some respects. In a movie, after a huge action setpiece moment a la Chapter 20, the action movie would likely take a little break. Give the characters some small time to take a breather, talk about something, and then finally allow the main character to make the journey up the cliff to save his half-wit brother. But the difference? The movie wouldn't spend 20 minutes on the protagonist's climb up the mountain, because that is god damn boring and completely breaks the pacing. And I must ask , why the hell does ND think that is important to experience? We, as the player, have done dozens of traversal sections when we get to this chapter, we get the jist. At this point in the story we want to see the ending, to see what happens, who lives and dies, etc. What we don't really want is to scale yet another cliffside for the hundreth time for 20 minutes. Wouldn't it be great if U4 trusts the player to "get" it on their own, and do some obvious cliff montage. Wouldn't it be great if they just did a cinematic of Drake climbing the mountain, using some quick edits, and a few key player interaction moments during some exciting jumps. We don't need to be in it for half an hour to get that Drake is climbing that mountain. We don't need to be with him that entire time. We can be trusted to understand how edits work.
And it's not just this example, U4 does this all the time, with little things. Pushing a box around for a handful of minutes here, moving a crate over there, solving a completely obvious environmental puzzle to proceed, doing some half-assed traversal in order to make it to your destination. Little road blocks that break up the pacing. Small moments that serve no greater narrative purpose nor give the player anything interesting to do with gameplay. And it's not like they are a spectacle, either. They are busywork. It's just downtime for the sake of downtime.
This permeates the game, and, in my opinion, has no place in it. There are parts of Uncharted 4 where I feel like I'm watching The Revenant in slow motion.
The pacing of this game is plodding at best. Just when a combat encounter was starting to get good, it ends, and I'm back to overly simplistic platforming.
It seems that ND was attempting to adapt the narrative pace of The Last of Us, but why? I don't understand the benefit in making this game feel so slow.
? He played a big part in the game. I don't find the fact that he cares troubling in the slightest. He has much more of a role in it than any of us. He obviously wants it to do as well as possible. Not too much wrong with that...
People needs to realize that games aren't one universal thing, there's not a simple definition of video game. Open your mind or accept that there is far more than the basic concept of "gameplay".
The other one that stood out to me is...I think 12 into 13?
The boat chapter on the island. Again, stand alone, I'm fine with this. It happens right after the most high octane setpiece in the entire game, and has similar things that you mention (Sam & Nate character moments) though it perhaps lasts overly long with the sheer amount of climbing and crate pushing. But what gets me is how this mirrors UC2, and what they did differently--the opening setpiece. Once you solve some puzzles and get back outside on the island, you clearly notice the storm brewing. It's a cool moment that signals to the player that it's going to lead into the boat segment the game opened with.
However...it skips it. After this slow chapter that builds up, you are thrust into 13. Marooned. On a rainy island, slowly walking for awhile. Then climbing, meeting up with sam, etc. It's VERY slow and follows an already slow chapter, actually playing that setpiece at the start and covering it with a few quick flashes in a cutscene felt like it was missing in a spot where it was sorely needed.
UC2 opens with you climbing a train, without telling what happened to get here. Once you get the scene with Elena picking you up in the jeep and jump to the train ingame, the player KNOWS this is going to end poorly, but get to see it all unfold. Then they play a shortened version of the intro. It was much more effectively done, as opposed to the UC4 handling.
This is the type of stuff people talking about the pacing are talking about. It's not like our hands are shaking after 5 minutes of not killing someone.
The worst part about Chapter 13 was that there was only one shooting encounter (the one already shown at PSX) and before that like 20 minutes of SLOW climbing then regular climbing. Then following that encounter you then explore the commercial district for another good half an hour then fight like two more shooting encounters and a setpiece over the course of the next two chapters. And of course chapter 16 was a whole lot of nothing. So from 12-16 there are a total of 3-4 combat encounters + 1 setpiece in a span of 5 chapters and around 3-4 hours.
People who don't like Chapter 16 are nuts. I was planning to stop playing after 15, but I knew as soon as 16 started I was hooked and, of course, ended up playing right through to the end.
I complained earlier about the game dragging its feet and the characters feeling flimsy but the end of 15 and then 16 through 17 finally did give me some of what I was waiting for
tho Elena's sudden entrance was (again) handled rather awkwardly imo and I've reached my breaking point in regards to the boxes and not being able to use the rope when it is the obvious thing to do
. Doesn't change that it took way too long to get there, maybe 16 should've happened a little earlier or something, but oh well, let's see what's next.
