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[Primethius]

Ignore all criticism of the game brehs

Reject a usage of a word then never explain your perspective of it, BRUHS

I believe I explained my usage of the word. It's the commonly accepted one.

You have pretty good control over Nate when your climbing. This can be seen in the slower sections where you move his arm around looking for the next jump. You have full agency over him.

What you refer to his level design, with just holding up and pressing X. Your agency over Nate wouldn't change if the levels were designed better for you.

So yea, its a lot down to terminology and I'm personally not a fan of mixing a lot of this stuff up because it takes the nuance out of discussing game design.

And for reference, I understand the complaint itself (regarding platforming). I don't agree with it and clearly don't see the game in the same light as a person who does, but it's a valid view and one I haven't tried to dismiss. I only jumped in due to the comments regarding agency.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I thought 4's arenas were tight enough and filled with enough dudes that I used melee all the time. I have over 1000 kills and like 400 some I killed via melee

Nah, this isn't the kind of tightness I'm talking about. The arenas in 4 feel tight because they're cluttered and enemies swarm the hell out of you. I'm talking more enclosed level design that would force you into melee as a pacing beat. Something like Chapter 19 would've been perfect for some tense hand to hand fights on a rope bridge or in one of

Spoiler

Avery's "I've gone crazy" tombs

, but instead we get what I can only describe as UC1 shootouts. Bleh, Ch. 19 is so bad.

I also had a lot of melee kills, but I wanted more forced group fights like

Spoiler

Ch. 2

 

[potatohead]

Ignore all criticism of the game brehs

Reject a usage of a word then never explain your perspective of it, BRUHS

OK, I think that's enough. Let me just be blunt now. I respect your opinion and I recognize how you feel about the gameplay in Uncharted.

That said I'm never gonna respect a holier than thou attitude in regards to a videogame of all things. Your opinion is not a perfect, undeniable criticism of the game. It's an opinion.

It's also an opinion I or others don't have to share. I don't even agree with the way you are defining agency in terms of the gameplay of Uncharted or action-adventure games either. There is no set definition on these kinds of terms and nobody has to accept anyone else's interpretations of it either. But that's all. No more, no less.

It's not being ignorant of criticism. It's just a sincere disagreement. Don't make it personal or anything more than that. I hope you know where to draw the line next time.

Lastly, I did give my opinion on what I think agency means. And it is not in the mechanical or automated aspects of the act of platforming. Agency to me means having direct and confident control over the player character and the ability to maneuver in a way that is self-directed. And in my opinion Uncharted 4 satisfies that in the way you can easily choose how you approach a gun battle or occasionally a platforming section.

That's my definition, you don't have to agree with it and I'm not asking you to. So don't ask others to subscribe to your views of what all these broad terms mean either.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Nah, this isn't the kind of tightness I'm talking about. The arenas in 4 feel tight because they're cluttered and enemies swarm the hell out of you. I'm talking more enclosed level design that would force you into melee as a pacing beat. Something like Chapter 19 would've been perfect for some tense hand to hand fights on a rope bridge or in one of

Spoiler

Avery's "I've gone crazy" tombs

, but instead we get what I can only describe as UC1 shootouts. Bleh, Ch. 19 is so bad.

I also had a lot of melee kills, but I wanted more forced group fights like

Spoiler

Ch. 2

I liked chapter 19 a lot actually, but the encounter there is pretty uninteresting. I didn't really need more giant fistfight brawls since I think the melee works a lot better when it's mixed in with gunplay, but I wouldn't say no to crazy shit like a fight on a rope bridge.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Ch.19 has the worst fight in the game. Especially on Hard. Like lets get rid of all the interesting traversal mechanics or wider spaces we used the whole game and just funnel you through like two dozen mothafuckas with heavy machine guns, infinite grenades, shotguns, armor, etc.

E A T A D I C K Bruce Straely for that one

 

[potatohead]

Ch.19 has the worst fight in the game. Especially on Hard. Like lets get rid of all the interesting traversal mechanics or wider spaces we used the whole game and just funnel you through like two dozen mothafuckas with heavy machine guns, infinite grenades, shotguns, armor, etc.

E A T A D I C K Bruce Straely for that one

Yea that was some bullshit. Died like 25 times on the first part of that encounter in Crushing....

That one guy that rushes you and grabs you is the absolute worst in that kind of scenario.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Ch.19 has the worst fight in the game. Especially on Hard. Like lets get rid of all the interesting traversal mechanics or wider spaces we used the whole game and just funnel you through like two dozen mothafuckas with heavy machine guns, infinite grenades, shotguns, armor, etc.

E A T A D I C K Bruce Straely for that one

I didn't think it was hard, but it reminded me of the final gunfight in 2 before Lazaravic. Just a straight line through a bunch of bullshit dudes.

 

[Kyleripman]

Haha I figured I was in the minority, oh well. Just had more fun in places like the opening scene, the market brawl, etc. than any fistfighting 4.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I believe I explained my usage of the word. It's the commonly accepted one.

That wasn't in reference to you

It was in referenced to the guy quoted below

Also, here's the definition of "agency," off of Google:

... the capacity of an entity (a person or other entity, human or any living being in general, or soul-consciousness in religion) to act in any given environment.

When I say UC4 gives the player less agency during climbing than Grow Home does, I mean the player's capacity to act within the game's environments is smaller compared to Grow Home, or compared to other segments of UC4.

Is that the same definition you're going by?

OK, I think that's enough. Let me just be blunt now. I respect your opinion and I recognize how you feel about the gameplay in Uncharted.

That said I'm never gonna respect a holier than thou attitude in regards to a videogame of all things. Your opinion is not a perfect, undeniable criticism of the game. It's an opinion.

I am holier than thou, though. Get on my level, or get gone, son.

But seriously, you are projecting that attitude onto my posts. If you make low-effort dismissals of something I say, you're getting low-effort dismissals in return. If you think the definitions of "agency," or "braindead," I'm using are incorrect, I'll listen if you respond on-the-level, but don't expect much in return if you pull the "lol, these tryhard haters are just gonna hate bruh" rhetoric.

If you feel there's "holier than thou," or "superiority" or "uppityness" (maybe because of my avatar?) in my posts, just ignore that feeling you have, because it isn't actually there.

Nah, this isn't the kind of tightness I'm talking about. The arenas in 4 feel tight because they're cluttered and enemies swarm the hell out of you. I'm talking more enclosed level design that would force you into melee as a pacing beat. Something like Chapter 19 would've been perfect for some tense hand to hand fights on a rope bridge or in one of

Spoiler

Avery's "I've gone crazy" tombs

, but instead we get what I can only describe as UC1 shootouts. Bleh, Ch. 19 is so bad.

I also had a lot of melee kills, but I wanted more forced group fights like

Spoiler

Ch. 2

The

Spoiler

Nadine fights

would've been great opportunities for these. Especially the one in chapter

Spoiler

15

or so. Especially with the environmental destruction.

Spoiler

Nadine

can be unbeatable, but let the henchmen be fodder.

 

[Primethius]

That wasn't in reference to you

It was in referenced to the guy quoted below

Also, here's the definition of "agency," off of Google:

... the capacity of an entity (a person or other entity, human or any living being in general, or soul-consciousness in religion) to act in any given environment.

When I say UC4 gives the player less agency during climbing than Grow Home does, I mean the player's capacity to act within the game's environments is smaller compared to Grow Home, or compared to other segments of UC4.

Is that the same definition you're going by?



I am holier than thou, though. Get on my level, or get gone, son.

But seriously, you are projecting that attitude onto my posts. If you make low-effort dismissals of something I say, you're getting low-effort dismissals in return. If you think the definitions of "agency," or "braindead," I'm using are incorrect, I'll listen if you respond on-the-level, but don't expect much in return if you pull the "lol, these tryhard haters are just gonna hate bruh" rhetoric.

If you feel there's "holier than thou," or "superiority" or "uppityness" (maybe because of my avatar?) in my posts, just ignore that feeling you have, because it isn't actually there.



The

Spoiler

Nadine fights

would've been great opportunities for these. Especially the one in chapter

Spoiler

15

or so. Especially with the environmental destruction.

Spoiler

Nadine

can be unbeatable, but let the henchmen be fodder.

No, because I'd prescribe the things you listed as functions of mechanical depth and other gameplay subsystems rather then agency.

And since we're operating on different definitions (and I have no intention of changing how I perceive agency), I'll drop this here.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

No, because I'd prescribe the things you listed as functions of mechanical depth and other gameplay subsystems rather then agency.

And since we're operating on different definitions (and I have no intention of changing how I perceive agency), I'll drop this here.

Do you consider agency separate from those systems? The player can only interact with the game through the controls/mechanics/systems — their agency within the game is defined by those, made possible through those.

And do we have to agree in order to discuss that? If you don't want to, that's fine, but I'm interested in why you think there's a delineation between mechanics and agency.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I didn't think it was hard, but it reminded me of the final gunfight in 2 before Lazaravic. Just a straight line through a bunch of bullshit dudes.

I mean yeah, but that was trash too lol. UC2's greatness resides in Chapters 3 to 23

If you want to funnel me against enemies in a shooter as a final push, throw the mooks at me, not the armored up super soldiers. I have no issue bumrushing through fluff for the sake of creating an exciting push. Throwing me in a straight line against spongier enemies though? Ehhhh

 

[Fancy Clown]

I mean yeah, but that was trash too lol. UC2's greatness resides in Chapters 3 to 23

If you want to funnel me against enemies in a shooter as a final push, throw the mooks at me, not the armored up super soldiers. I have no issue bumrushing through fluff for the sake of creating an exciting push. Throwing me in a straight line against spongier enemies though? Ehhhh

Yeah no I agree I hated it in 2 as well. 4 has by far the best final string of encounters.

Spoiler

That ship graveyard culminating in the truck-Bamdicoot chase was so good. game just needed more shit like that, etc

 

[Primethius]

Do you consider agency separate from those systems? The player can only interact with the game through the controls/mechanics/systems — their agency within the game is defined by those, made possible through those.

And do we have to agree in order to discuss that? If you don't want to, that's fine, but I'm interested in why you think there's a delineation between mechanics and agency.

Yes, I consider agency largely seperate from those things. Granted, there's always nuanced exceptions but my definition of agency has always trended more towards, "is the character doing what the player intends?" And in that regard, I don't integrate other subsystems into agency because more complexity doesn't inherently afford more agency and so on. I like to view them as separate aspects of game design.

According to your definition, there are moments in the game with increased agency but largely devoid of it.

However, I don't think that's true at all under the definition I operate. Nate controls roughly the same throughout the game. His controls don't really change much and so that basic level of agency the game affords you, is always there.

When you perceive a lack of agency in situations, I'd say is more of a function of level design not using Nates toolset to it's full potential.

Because the way I see it, Nate controls extremely well and does what the player largely intends. There's a few issues with rolling and so on, but Nate himself has never controlled better.

To put it another way, were I in your shoes, I'd say that there are no issues with agency regarding Nate (or that it's satisfactory), but simplistic level design in portions of the game focused on traversal limit Nates actions. Thus, agency is not the culprit. The level design is.

 

[Kilau]

Finally finished, credits rolling. Don't think I could be happier. Bravo Naughty Dog.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Yes, I consider agency largely seperate from those things. Granted, there's always nuanced exceptions but my definition of agency has always trended more towards, "is the character doing what the player intends?" And in that regard, I don't integrate other subsystems into agency because more complexity doesn't inherently afford more agency and so on. I like to view them as separate aspects of game design.

According to your definition, there are moments in the game with increased agency but largely devoid of it.

However, I don't think that's true at all under the definition I ooerate. Nate controls roughly the same throughout the game. His controls don't really change much and so that basic level of agency the game affords you, is always there.

When you perceive a lack of agency in situations, I'd say is more of a function of level design not using Nates toolset to it's full potential.

Because the way I see it, Nate controls extremely well and does what the player largely intends. There's a few issues with rolling and so on, but Nate himself has never controlled better.

To put it another way, were I in your shoes, I'd say that there are no issues with agency regarding Nate (or that it's satisfactory), but simplistic level design in portions of the game focused on traversal limit Nates actions. Thus, agency is not the culprit. The level design is.

Okay, I see what you mean now. I still consider there to be more options available to the player at a given moment during combat than while climbing from one handhold to another and that having to worry about actually gripping onto, then letting go of something would augment player agency. But, if the design of those pure climbing segments were better and more open, players wouldn't as often feel railroaded and not engaged about those segments.

I still consider the level design to be among a game's systems, and when that level design is forcing the player to adhere to a really linear path, it's limiting the player's agency within the game if there's ever something that they would (reasonably) want to do or somewhere they want to go, yet can't. Obviously, not ever conceivably grabbable ledge could be made into a proper path, but feeling like you're just going through motions intended by the designers without any amount of choice and/or challenge is a turnoff for many — there needs to be something more during those segments, or they need to be used in different ways.

 

[Primethius]

Okay, I see what you mean now. I still consider there to be more options available to the player at a given moment during combat than while climbing from one handhold to another and that having to worry about actually gripping onto, then letting go of something would augment player agency. But, if the design of those pure climbing segments were better and more open, players wouldn't as often feel railroaded and not engaged about those segments.

I still consider the level design to be among a game's systems, and when that level design is forcing the player to adhere to a really linear path, it's limiting the player's agency within the game if there's ever something that they would (reasonably) want to do or somewhere they want to go, yet can't. Obviously, not ever conceivably grabbable ledge could be made into a proper path, but feeling like you're just going through motions intended by the designers without any amount of choice and/or challenge is a turnoff for many — there needs to be something more during those segments, or they need to be used in different ways.

Note: I've moved away from agency discussion here to something more general (re: why I think traversal works simplified and in the game).

I agree with most of your statements but not your conclusion. And I think it's because I approached the game (or maybe the series) from a diffrent mindset. I don't remotely think that you could make a fun game out of UC traversal unless it's designed significantly like the clocktower segment. However, I don't think you need to.

It's simplistic, it funnels you into where you need to go, it's accessible to a large amount of players and it works (functional). I think you can agree with that assessment of traversal, yea? Where my opinion differs is that I've never considered UC to be a series made up of smaller complex subsystems that come together to form the whole. It's always been the whole package together that makes it great and that's often pushed by very simplistic subsystems and a whole bunch of non-gameplay related things used to influence emotion and the player.

UC4 has a lot of that (simple subsystems). One off things that don't get used again (nor should they). It's certainly a more streamlined game in ways and less complex then it's processors (melee) but for the better (to push a specific combat flow).

To bring it back to the traversal. There's just more going on in the game at a time then just traversal. And that's what clicked for me. It was the banter, the discussions, some of the optional conversations, sometimes the music or the beautiful vistas, it all melded together with a (simplistic) traversal system to create something special, something fun.

And I won't tell you what to find fun or anything like that. I've read your posts and I know me and you disagree on a lot of be fundamental stuff. But I appreciate the simplicity of the traversal because I quite like a lot of the underlying game design philosophy (which is really where I think our disagreements originate). These are things we won't agree on. But I think funneling people into one set path is absolutely the right way to do it. My experience with UC4 was largely a extremely linear, narrative focused title. Not only do I think opening up the level design would harm the pacing of the game, I think it would result in a less focused title.

UC4 feels very much focused in delivering a specific experience. And it did that for me. And that's why it worked.

 

[Keihart]

Yeah pretty much. Like I love what we got, but I love the stuff we didn't get even more.

Me too.

 

[potatohead]

That wasn't in reference to you

It was in referenced to the guy quoted below

Also, here's the definition of "agency," off of Google:

... the capacity of an entity (a person or other entity, human or any living being in general, or soul-consciousness in religion) to act in any given environment.

I am holier than thou, though. Get on my level, or get gone, son.

But seriously, you are projecting that attitude onto my posts. If you make low-effort dismissals of something I say, you're getting low-effort dismissals in return. If you think the definitions of "agency," or "braindead," I'm using are incorrect, I'll listen if you respond on-the-level, but don't expect much in return if you pull the "lol, these tryhard haters are just gonna hate bruh" rhetoric.

That's the attitude you brought from the outset, the fact you would expect me to provide you with something more than that when you're barely affording it to anyone else? You can't expect that when you just automatically dismissed the responses and assumed no one knew what you meant, and no one could handle criticisms of the game. Basically accused others of being defensive when it was actually you being defensive yourself. If you're really honest about, you just assumed you were right. That's all there is to it. Like... really. Anyway.

Even look at the definition of agency you provided. Is there any requirement of mechanics as part of "agency?" No, there isn't. You took a word and stretched it to a meaning to whatever you felt you wanted it to include. Ironically you showed a great lack of sincerity in criticizing the "groundbreaking ending" opinion thread of UC4 for the same thing in using "incorrect terminology", yet you can't see you did it here yourself in stretching a definition a little too far from its actual meaning.

You even went on all these tangents of talking about illusion of danger or automation in regards to making a jump. None of those fit into that wikipedia definition of agency. Agency means control and manipulation, but it has nothing to do with a sense of danger or holding any specific requirements for the mechanics of an action.

Only now you've stepped back and realized maybe you yourself took the term and stretched it too thin for the point you were trying to make. And I again respect your opinion, that you think the platforming is mechanically weak or lacks depth, but that is not what agency means. Lacking agency would mean the game systems don't provide the player the choice to approach gameplay scenarios the way they want or in different ways.

But despite the mechanical deficiencies Uncharted is accused of, it's almost patently false to say the game doesn't let the player have agency and choice in how to approach combat scenarios with stealth or cover or traversal and gunplay, even with an added underwater and airborne/rope swinging element. You can use all these maneuvering capabilities of Drake to enter and exit combat scenarios as you please too, to engage or disengage from which ledge, to use which brush cover, or when to use or not use stealth mechanics. That's a lot to choose from. And agency is synonymous with choice.

They might be simple actions to execute, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of strategies and combinations of actions, and that variety and "agency" provided is a lot more obvious when comparing to other contemporary action games which generally are much more straight forward in combat.

Most of your criticisms lie specifically with level design or with the platforming mechanics themselves (e.g. you just need to press X and push a direction, which is what the game is trying to do by design), not the agency or lack thereof that they provide.

I've no interest in disputing those aspects, and you may very well believe those things, that's fine. But like the other dude said, and I ended up saying as well. Issue was with terminology, and that was in regards to what agency means.

 

[secretanchitman]

Finally beat the game (took me 16 hours on moderate) and what a game. Seriously it is in my top 10 games of all time - it's that amazing.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

There was never a single moment in the traversal of Uncharted 4 where I thought, "Hmm, this incredible combination of art/graphic design, excellent dialog and vocal performances, and traversal with a companion is clearly exactly the experience Naughty Dog set out to make, but what if there was some Prince of Persia: Sands of Time platforming challenges because video games"

The only instances where the the traversal is "boring" is when the other elements are failing. Like ch.16's contrived writing and poor attempts to capture the naive innocence of Left Behind.

 

[potatohead]

There was never a single moment in the traversal of Uncharted 4 where I thought, "Hmm, this incredible combination of art/graphic design, excellent dialog and vocal performances, and traversal with a companion is clearly exactly the experience Naughty Dog set out to make, but what if there was some Prince of Persia: Sands of Time platforming challenges because video games"

The only instances where the the traversal is "boring" is when the other elements are failing. Like ch.16's contrived writing and poor attempts to capture the naive innocence of Left Behind.

I like it in the same way. I never felt it needed to be more than what it is and ended up as in UC4. The goal of the platforming isn't to be mechanically complex. It's supposed to be a complement to the action gameplay. There are "some" of these platforming game-y mechanics in UC though, like PoP, e.g. those spinning turbine things in the Nepal temple with Tenzin. But yea I never felt I wanted those to take over the platforming segments tbh.

And especially in the larger and more open combat areas of UC4, it's just supposed to easily allow the player navigate the pretty complex environments quickly and easily, so you can take advantage of the vantage points or "stealth grass" or do whatever else you want to do.

Like it's probably possible to have TR Legend or Underworld platforming (which itself is a lot more automated than classic TR) and Uncharted shooting gameplay at the same time, and in some ways 6th gen TR actually is that (except using auto-aim), and it's great in those games. But still the way ND did it for UC it really complements the combat scenarios more where you want to be moving quickly and easily between getting headshots here and there.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

There was never a single moment in the traversal of Uncharted 4 where I thought, "Hmm, this incredible combination of art/graphic design, excellent dialog and vocal performances, and traversal with a companion is clearly exactly the experience Naughty Dog set out to make, but what if there was some Prince of Persia: Sands of Time platforming challenges because video games"

The only instances where the the traversal is "boring" is when the other elements are failing. Like ch.16's contrived writing and poor attempts to capture the naive innocence of Left Behind.

Even comparing against itself, there's a clear gulf between interesting platforming that still isn't challenging enough to break the flow (Ch. 11, Ch. 21) vs. braindead nothingness (almost everything else). If they're going to increase the amount of traversal twofold (at least), give me twice the number of interesting traversal scenarios as well. I mean christ, if you aren't going to thrill me with explosions and shootouts, wow me with climbing sequences, and huge mechanisms, and creative cinematography, and whatever. The hell is all this comatose walk and talk and these boring puzzles?

Tenzin's rolling over in his grave.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

All I hear is niggas watching Alien and thinking "why is this first half so boring where is the alien why are they just talking this is trash"

 

[potatohead]

Tenzin was the best platforming buddy, can't argue with that.

Also his broken no-English just made that bond so stronk

 

[Net_Wrecker]

All I hear is niggas watching Alien and thinking "why is this first half so boring where is the alien why are they just talking this is trash"

Breh pleeeeeeease, Uncharted was never Alien though. This is more like Romancing The Stone turning into True Detective Season 2.

I might be exaggerating but whatever.

And don't box your boy in like that, I just beat Oxenfree last night and I really, really enjoyed that game. The movement is slow as hell, and the entire game is walk + talk. Way more engaging walk + talk than Uncharted 4. Expectations and context are a thing. All I'm doing is comparing and contrasting the 4th game in a series to the previous 3.

 

[Dangansona]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here by asking, I'm mostly generally confused. Why does everyone get to keep making their own Uncharted threads less than a month after release with their opinion on the game? Isn't that what the OTs are for?

 

[ctfg23]

I'm about halfway through my crushing playthrough and just realized I did the first few chapters with lock-on aim enabled. Will that mess with the difficulty trophies?

 

[Bishop89]

best music of the game.

One of my favourites in gaming of all time.

Makes up for not having the MAIN nate theme in the game

 

[Nev]

Makes up for not having the MAIN nate theme in the game

It is in the game, it's used for the intro and the credits.

I liked the soundtrack and think that one track you linked and this one are superb but I think Edmonson did a better job overall. Most tracks of his soundtracks were memorable and he used the Nate's theme motif more often. I don't understand why they left him out of the last game to be honest.

 

[Ratrat]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here by asking, I'm mostly generally confused. Why does everyone get to keep making their own Uncharted threads less than a month after release with their opinion on the game? Isn't that what the OTs are for?

Its nothing compared to the amount of threads on MGSV and Witcher 3 that sprang up.

 

[GravityInsanity]

best music of the game.

One of my favourites in gaming of all time.

Makes up for not having the MAIN nate theme in the game

 

[Bishop89]

It is in the game, it's used for the intro and the credits.

I liked the soundtrack and think that one track you linked and this one are superb but I think Edmonson did a better job overall. Most tracks of his soundtracks were memorable and he used the Nate's theme motif more often. I don't understand why they left him out of the last game to be honest.

Yeh sorry, I meant like in the main game, of course the intro/credits has it

I also agree Edmonson did a better job, but Jackman got some good tunes.

 

[keuja]

I loved the game, especially the epilogue. Not digging the combat though. The aiming felt very imprecise.
I hated that I never knew where I would aim after snapping my gun out with L2 so your first aim ends up wherever, you adjust and get shot in the process, then back to cover again and hope the enemy hasn't moved. And everytime you shoot an enemy, it does some jerky hit animations which combined with the recoil made them even tougher to hit consistently. Finally the lack of variety of enemies and them being bullet sponges made it frustrating at times...
The lack of set pieces I can live with (although a bit disappointing) but I expected to enjoy the combat much more. Still, great game.

 

[AudioEppa]

Note: I've moved away from agency discussion here to something more general (re: why I think traversal works simplified and in the game).

I agree with most of your statements but not your conclusion. And I think it's because I approached the game (or maybe the series) from a diffrent mindset. I don't remotely think that you could make a fun game out of UC traversal unless it's designed significantly like the clocktower segment. However, I don't think you need to.

It's simplistic, it funnels you into where you need to go, it's accessible to a large amount of players and it works (functional). I think you can agree with that assessment of traversal, yea? Where my opinion differs is that I've never considered UC to be a series made up of smaller complex subsystems that come together to form the whole. It's always been the whole package together that makes it great and that's often pushed by very simplistic subsystems and a whole bunch of non-gameplay related things used to influence emotion and the player.

UC4 has a lot of that (simple subsystems). One off things that don't get used again (nor should they). It's certainly a more streamlined game in ways and less complex then it's processors (melee) but for the better (to push a specific combat flow).

To bring it back to the traversal. There's just more going on in the game at a time then just traversal. And that's what clicked for me. It was the banter, the discussions, some of the optional conversations, sometimes the music or the beautiful vistas, it all melded together with a (simplistic) traversal system to create something special, something fun.

And I won't tell you what to find fun or anything like that. I've read your posts and I know me and you disagree on a lot of be fundamental stuff. But I appreciate the simplicity of the traversal because I quite like a lot of the underlying game design philosophy (which is really where I think our disagreements originate). These are things we won't agree on. But I think funneling people into one set path is absolutely the right way to do it. My experience with UC4 was largely a extremely linear, narrative focused title. Not only do I think opening up the level design would harm the pacing of the game, I think it would result in a less focused title.

UC4 feels very much focused in delivering a specific experience. And it did that for me. And that's why it worked.

I just wanted to say before I fall asleep, is that you're comment about U4 staying narrative focused was beautiful said. And it's why I'm a fan of ND's games since the first uncharted.

I'm happy they only give 4 enough room to move a bit, but still let me naturally as intended progress further into the story, the reason why I'm playing. The graphics within different locations was awesome to look at from a distance, but I didn't care to explore.

If I had to say a problem I had the with game, is that it didn't have enough long cutscenes. They simply are just amazing at producing them, One of the best aspects introduced to video gaming, especially when done perfect like ND does it.

 

[semiconscious]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here by asking, I'm mostly generally confused. Why does everyone get to keep making their own Uncharted threads less than a month after release with their opinion on the game? Isn't that what the OTs are for?

i'm sensing a determined effort by some to convince the universe that uc4 is 'the game of all-time', &, as a series fan, i find it sort of embarrassing. particularly since, in some ways, it's possibly the weakest game in the series ...

 

[Fancy Clown]

i'm sensing a determined effort by some to convince the universe that uc4 is 'the game of all-time', &, as a series fan, i find it sort of embarrassing. particularly since, in some ways, it's possibly the weakest game in the series ...

The most recent Uncharted thread is titled "is anyone else disappointed by Uncharted 4"

 

[GravityInsanity]

The most recent Uncharted thread is titled "is anyone else disappointed by Uncharted 4"

I think UC4 broke the record for most threads after 1 month from release. I expect more UC4 threads the next day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA5VP3mh8fI

 

[semiconscious]

The most recent Uncharted thread is titled "is anyone else disappointed by Uncharted 4"

i think it's called 'counter-balance'. also, 'blowback' ...

 

[Fancy Clown]

i think it's called 'counter-balance'. also, 'blowback' ...

It's called 'people having different opinions'

 

[Gbraga]

I'm really enjoying the game, it's great, no doubts about it.

But I'm still so disappointed. I know it's not a fair measure of quality, but I really expected it to be a lot better.

I was expecting it to be easily the best Uncharted and fight with The Last of Us for my favorite ND game. The things I saw pre-release that made me think that are still just as good, but the game as a whole has so many questionable and weird design choices. I still need to finish my first playthrough and do at least one more to be able to properly rank the games, but so far, I think my favorite will continue to be Drake's Fortune.

 

[CitizenCope]

I finished it and enjoyed it. Not a huge fan of the series as I just don't dig the gun play. I only played 1 and 2 and couldn't wait for 2 to end so I'm surprised by all the love for it. This was the best one for me. Not amazing but no regrets about the $60.

 

[semiconscious]

It's called 'people having different opinions'

um, this conversation isn't about 'having different opinions'? it's about 'having so many uncharted 4 threads'. &, yeah, i believe that the 'negative' thread was something of a response to this ...

 

[Fancy Clown]

um, this conversation isn't about 'having different opinions'? it's about 'having so many uncharted 4 threads' ...

you were convinced that the glut of uncharted threads were due to some concentrated embarrassing effort by some people to force everyone to think it's the best game ever, so I pointed out the most recent of these threads (and there are others) are about how others are disappointed with the game so that's clearly not the case. Then you said that's because of some sort of blowback or counter balance or whatever, and I said its just because people have different opinions on video games.

That's the thread of the conversation lol

 

[semiconscious]

you were convinced that the glut of uncharted threads were due to some concentrated embarrassing effort by some people to force everyone to think it's the best game ever, so I pointed out the most recent of these threads (and there are others) are about how others are disappointed with the game so that's clearly not the case. Then you said that's because of some sort of blowback or counter balance or whatever, and I said its just because people have different opinions on video games.

That's the thread of the conversation lol

fine. i obviously should've just started my own thread on this subject ...

 

[Fancy Clown]

fine. i obviously should've just started my own thread on this subject ...

I mean, sure that would just reinforce what I was saying haha

 

[Cornbread78]

OH my, I have to say that I'm loving the more mature tone this game has taken story wise. That dialog between Nate and

Spoiler

Elana

during Chp. 17-18 is spot on. You can really feel the uneasiness and tension of the situation and it accurately depicts how

Spoiler

a real married couple would act in that situation. Elana is seriously pissed, let down and really hurt by it and Nate is really sorry. He has been duped also, but is really trying to get her (his wife) to understand his thoughts/feelings and at the same time approach her about it. As a married adult I can completely understand the tension and apprehension of the situation. Both Elana wanting to be there and support her husband, but feeling burnt as well as Nate knowing he did something really stupid, knows he let her down, but trying to find a way to both thank her for being there to support (and save) him, but also salvage a marriage that obviously means something to him

Like I said, it's a real mature approach to the story that most teenagers will probably not like and will not be able to fully comprehend those thoughts and emotions as complex a situation as it is.

I'm really interested to see how this all plays out in the end, but I've heard the ending is not like 3 at all, so I'm nervous....

 

[Daffy Duck]

I'll probably get torn a new one for this, but some of the graphics really didn't blow me away in some areas, from what I read/saw on here/Twitter and other places I was expecting balls to the wall amazing graphics everywhere, yet that is not what I got.

When people say things like best game ever you have this mental image built up in your head of what you will get, and my expectations were sadly not met at every step of the journey.

I'm not saying it's not gorgeous in parts but I was expecting (unrealistically or not) that all the way through the game.

 

[Keihart]

I loved the game, especially the epilogue. Not digging the combat though. The aiming felt very imprecise.
I hated that I never knew where I would aim after snapping my gun out with L2 so your first aim ends up wherever, you adjust and get shot in the process, then back to cover again and hope the enemy hasn't moved. And everytime you shoot an enemy, it does some jerky hit animations which combined with the recoil made them even tougher to hit consistently. Finally the lack of variety of enemies and them being bullet sponges made it frustrating at times...
The lack of set pieces I can live with (although a bit disappointing) but I expected to enjoy the combat much more. Still, great game.

i find recoil to be one of the better models i've seen in a tps, the reticule size and how it changes never giving you a laser point target it's super fun and even more realistic. Also they way that you see the hit markers within the reticule makes you apreciate more the nuances between all weapons.

You can totally guess were you are going to aim behind cover by placing the camera, the aim assist its not agressive so it doesn't snap you into enemies but instead to were you are aiming the camera.

 

[Bishop89]

If you guys havnt yet, come over and play the mp.

Its great fun