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[dgrdsv]

Are you insinuating that 8 ACEs are a waste of silicon?

For graphics - yes. This is something that both AMD and Sony agree with btw. A typical async compute usage in graphics is unlikely to go higher than 5 compute queues concurrently with graphics as this will make optimizing the flow nearly impossible and may actually lead to unpredictable performance even on GCN. So that's 5 queues out of 1 ACE or to get better launch granularity - 5 ACEs with 1 queue in each. The truth will probably be somewhere in the middle. In any case - 8 ACEs are an overkill for concurrent execution and will be truly used only in a pure compute workloads.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I don't know, it seems to me that the 60 fps movement is gaining traction. All of the big FPS games are now 60 fps: Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, Halo.

Yep i think this is a case of the hardware just not being enough for them to do what they want in SP at 60fps .
Figure there set piece is what really hurting the 60fps target in SP but they don't want to give up the 1080 for it .
MP they made the opposite choice , either way more games are moving to 60fps .
They biggest hold out going to be open world games but maybe nextgen we see them moving also and VR will also help push that .

 

[The Baron Count]

I don't know, it seems to me that the 60 fps movement is gaining traction. All of the big FPS games are now 60 fps: Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, Halo.

True, but I would say that really has more to do with CoD than anything else. It's influence is undeniable.

However 60FPS is simply one of many ways to use the power of new systems. 4A released their Metro collection running at a damn solid 60FPS and I'm pretty sure even they said that their next title would probably aim for a 30FPS target so they could do more.

 

[RoboPlato]

I don't know, it seems to me that the 60 fps movement is gaining traction. All of the big FPS games are now 60 fps: Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, Halo.

I hope that with more major devs (including first parties) aiming for 60, the next consoles take that into account in their design. Even 30fps games so far this gen have been more stable than they were last. Performance is trending up overall, even if there isn't a major shift.

I know ND has mentioned that CPU was their main source of issues with TLoUR and in the video tech demo from PSX the GPU was hanging right around 16.6ms while CPU wasn't even close.

 

[The Baron Count]

I hope that with more major devs (including first parties) aiming for 60, the next consoles take that into account in their design. Even 30fps games so far this gen have been more stable than they were last. Performance is trending up overall, even if there isn't a major shift.

Take it into account how?

There isn't any 60FPS specific hardware that you just put in your system.

 

[RoboPlato]

Take it into account how?

There isn't any 60FPS specific hardware that you just put in your system.

Accidentally posted before I finished it. Edited.

 

[The Baron Count]

Accidentally posted before I finished it. Edited.

Ah, I see. I haven't watched that ND presentation myself yet, was planning on doing so today. Were they referring to the speed of the CPU or just the move to the Jaguar cores after using the SPUs they way that they did?

But yeah, hardware balance is important. The bottleneck for these systems are pretty damn well known to be the weak sauce CPUs. Though they didn't really have a choice given what they wanted.

 

[RoboPlato]

Ah, I see. I haven't watched that ND presentation myself yet, was planning on doing so today. Were they referring to the speed of the CPU or just the move to the Jaguar cores after using the SPUs they way that they did?

But yeah, hardware balance is important. The bottleneck for these systems are pretty damn well known to be the weak sauce CPUs. Though they didn't really have a choice given what they wanted.

I actually understand and agree with many of the choices made in hardware this gen given the seemingly poor outlook for home consoles. I just hope that sales performance has proven there is still demand and the engineers listen closely to devs goals next time around.

 

[The Baron Count]

I actually understand and agree with many of the choices made in hardware this gen given the seemingly poor outlook for home consoles. I just hope that sales performance has proven there is still demand and the engineers listen closely to devs goals next time around.

So do I, believe me.

I miss bringing home a console and knowing that it was using top of the line stuff and looking forward to seeing how devs use it in the future. The middling jump this gen has been pretty depressing to me. Though I would say at least MS learned their lesson, a hard one at that.

 

[IvorB]

I'm just kind of surprised because this sounds like ND pushed the console to its limits with their first project this generation.

Maybe I'm just paranoid.

Well there is the additional constraint of time. I'm sure if they had more time they could get more performance but they have to draw a line at some point. I'm sure we will see further improvement in the stuff they put out.

That or they are just a mediocre developer with an extremely vocal and complacent fanbase. I like the art style of their games, and the gun play is usually very satisfying.

That's all that separates them from shit tier.

He he he.

 

[The Baron Count]

Well there is the additional constraint of time. I'm sure if they had more time they could get more performance but they have to draw a line at some point. I'm sure we will see further improvement in the stuff they put out.

Generally a dev's first game on a new platform revolves around getting their engine up and running and then doing the usual optimizations. There is a learning experience to figure out what they can and can't do.

After that they can really dig into the code and speed it up when they know their platform better. That's when we get stuff like Uncharted 2.

We will be seeing stuff from them later that blows Uncharted 4 out of the water most likely.

 

[Negotiator]

For graphics - yes. This is something that both AMD and Sony agree with btw. A typical async compute usage in graphics is unlikely to go higher than 5 compute queues concurrently with graphics as this will make optimizing the flow nearly impossible and may actually lead to unpredictable performance even on GCN. So that's 5 queues out of 1 ACE or to get better launch granularity - 5 ACEs with 1 queue in each. The truth will probably be somewhere in the middle. In any case - 8 ACEs are an overkill for concurrent execution and will be truly used only in a pure compute workloads.

I thought Cerny had said that those 8 ACEs will be utilized in the future... otherwise what's the point?

Pure compute workloads in video games? All games have to render graphics.

 

[dgrdsv]

I thought Cerny had said that those 8 ACEs will be utilized in the future... otherwise what's the point?

Pure compute workloads in video games? All games have to render graphics.

You don't have to run compute concurrently with graphics to use it in graphics rendering. As an example TressFX simulation in Tomb Raider isn't ran concurrently. Then there are cases like Dreams which abandon fixed graphics h/w and draw everything through compute.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Good, 60fps is great for multiplayer games. Having a smooth game is great for competitive gaming. Look at the big esports titles.

 

[Negotiator]

You don't have to run compute concurrently with graphics to use it in graphics rendering. As an example TressFX simulation in Tomb Raider isn't ran concurrently. Then there are cases like Dreams which abandon fixed graphics h/w and draw everything through compute.

Good point, but I don't think that many games are going to utilize pure GPGPU without good ol' 3D polygon rendering. We'll see.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Can we honestly be mad at the people who wanted a 900p 60fps single player experience? I mean if you played The Uncharted collection or The Last Of Us Remastered single player the experience is absolutely amazing at 60fps and it looks good. It will feel kind of weird to go from a 60fps single player experience to 30fps.

 

[IvorB]

Generally a dev's first game on a new platform revolves around getting their engine up and running and then doing the usual optimizations. There is a learning experience to figure out what they can and can't do.

After that they can really dig into the code and speed it up when they know their platform better. That's when we get stuff like Uncharted 2.

We will be seeing stuff from them later that blows Uncharted 4 out of the water most likely.

Yeah they will certainly build on what they accomplished for this game.

Can we honestly be mad at the people who wanted a 900p 60fps single player experience? I mean if you played The Uncharted collection or The Last Of Us Remastered single player the experience is absolutely amazing at 60fps and it looks good. It will feel kind of weird to go from a 60fps single player experience to 30fps.

I feel like that's a step too far. I'm all for people who like to play games at a 60 fps but asking to compromise the visuals of an Uncharted game is something I would never co-sign. And I'm honestly glad that Naughty Dog decided not to do a Halo 5.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Can we honestly be mad at the people who wanted a 900p 60fps single player experience? I mean if you played The Uncharted collection or The Last Of Us Remastered single player the experience is absolutely amazing at 60fps and it looks good. It will feel kind of weird to go from a 60fps single player experience to 30fps.

Give me that 1080p 30fps eye candy. I want to be able to take beautiful screenshots. I want to go into an area and think "Wow, this looks fucking gorgeous".

Then when I'm done with singleplayer, I want to spend the next 100 hours playing Uncharted at 60fps, where I don't really care too much about graphics.

So for me, this set up is absolutely perfect. It is what I had hoped they would have done from the beginning.

 

[RoboPlato]

Can we honestly be mad at the people who wanted a 900p 60fps single player experience? I mean if you played The Uncharted collection or The Last Of Us Remastered single player the experience is absolutely amazing at 60fps and it looks good. It will feel kind of weird to go from a 60fps single player experience to 30fps.

I would be more torn on the decision in that case since the Uncharted series is one that I spend a lot of time taking in the scenery and atmosphere so resolution matters there. I do love me some 60fps and if it was steady at that framerate I'd be fine with it but there would be more disappointment than with MP. I do think 1080/30 for SP and 900/60 for MP was the best choice for the overall fanbases of the respective modes.

 

[GameAddict411]

So it will be jarring going from multiplayer to singleplayer. I don't know who at naughty dog think this is a good idea, but part of quality is being consistent. Either 900p/60FPS for multiplayer and single player or 1080p/30FPS for both.

 

[Slaythe]

So it will be jarring going from multiplayer to singleplayer. I don't know who at naughty dog think this is a good idea, but part of quality is being consistent. Either 900p/60FPS for multiplayer and single player or 1080p/30FPS for both.

The gameplay of the multiplayer is extremely different.

It was already going to feel like something else.

If you can't adapt to that, which would take you about 2 minutes max, I pity you.

 

[RoboPlato]

So it will be jarring going from multiplayer to singleplayer. I don't know who at naughty dog think this is a good idea, but part of quality is being consistent. Either 900p/60FPS for multiplayer and single player or 1080p/30FPS for both.

The visual difference between SP and MP in 2 and 3 was already a bit jarring, at least it's in service of 60 this time.

 

[spannicus]

Neva. Lol

 

[Game4life]

So it will be jarring going from multiplayer to singleplayer. I don't know who at naughty dog think this is a good idea, but part of quality is being consistent. Either 900p/60FPS for multiplayer and single player or 1080p/30FPS for both.

Why would anyone keep alternating between single player and multiplayer and it literally takes 2 minutes to get adjusted.

 

[RoboPlato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cR12ajYlI

DF put up a nice little tech analysis video. Figured it would go best in here.

 

[timlot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cR12ajYlI

DF put up a nice little tech analysis video. Figured it would go best in here.

A lot of optimism and obfuscation going on in that video. Wish they would have been as understanding about Halo 5 E3 footage. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-can-halo-5-deliver-on-its-60fps-promise

 

[dark10x]

A lot of optimism and obfuscation going on in that video. Wish they would have been as understanding about Halo 5 E3 footage. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-can-halo-5-deliver-on-its-60fps-promise

It was just a quick thing j put together in a few hours. The version on the show floor was running so much smoother that it took the wind out of my sails. So I had to cut back on the FPS section. Wth Halo 5, we had no idea if it would run better.

UC4 looks better than Halo 5 as well.

 

[squidyj]

I'm glad they made the correct choice for single player.

Can we honestly be mad at the people who wanted a 900p 60fps single player experience? I mean if you played The Uncharted collection or The Last Of Us Remastered single player the experience is absolutely amazing at 60fps and it looks good. It will feel kind of weird to go from a 60fps single player experience to 30fps.

those people are basically hellspawn so yes I can be mad at them.

 

[The Artisan]

i'm not digging the whole "call in npcs to help you" - this is mp, you should be shooting only at other people playing, not bots imo. there should be enough of them to shoot at.

 

[tattooed_dwarf]

And I'm honestly glad that Naughty Dog decided not to do a Halo 5.

That is a game I would love to see.

 

[foxbeldin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cR12ajYlI

DF put up a nice little tech analysis video. Figured it would go best in here.

Thanks.
I hope ND can optimize it to a stable 60 before launch.

 

[zsynqx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cR12ajYlI

DF put up a nice little tech analysis video. Figured it would go best in here.

I honestly think the jungle map looks more visually polished than the original PSX gameplay. Can't wait to see what that area looks like now with an extra year of dev time.

 

[Kralamoonard]

It was just a quick thing j put together in a few hours. The version on the show floor was running so much smoother that it took the wind out of my sails. So I had to cut back on the FPS section. Wth Halo 5, we had no idea if it would run better.

UC4 looks better than Halo 5 as well.

Thanks a lot for the video John. Will there be another video, around the beta release, that explains how the graphical features differ from SP? Thanks.

 

[velociraptor]

I hope that with more major devs (including first parties) aiming for 60, the next consoles take that into account in their design. Even 30fps games so far this gen have been more stable than they were last. Performance is trending up overall, even if there isn't a major shift.

I know ND has mentioned that CPU was their main source of issues with TLoUR and in the video tech demo from PSX the GPU was hanging right around 16.6ms while CPU wasn't even close.

I agree. Hopefully the next-generation of consoles are powerful enough to provide us with a great leap in graphics as well as 60FPS across the board.

I don't remember seeing this many 60FPS games on the previous generation so since everyone is making a big deal out of it, maybe it'll happen.

 

[thelastword]

It was just a quick thing j put together in a few hours. The version on the show floor was running so much smoother that it took the wind out of my sails. So I had to cut back on the FPS section. Wth Halo 5, we had no idea if it would run better.

UC4 looks better than Halo 5 as well.

You mean, UC4 MP is much more impressive than Halo5 from both a visual and technical standpoint...... I mean it goes without saying, based on the quality and number of graphical effects being used in UC4 MP. We can also go on to physics and animation and it's much superior there too. I don't think Halo5 was slighted in the least bit, if anything, I think you were quite lenient on it....

It must also be noted that the consistency of the image is much better than what we have in Halo5, I do not support 900p, but in an evil world I'd choose the lesser evil....which is a consistent image over one which dynamically changes to as low as 1152*810.