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[lukeskymac]

Was this character reveal worthy a world premiere indeed?

I saw nothing special about it. Or is she coming from the Last of Us or something like that?

It was one of the only two noteworthy announcements at TGA, the other being Psyconauts 2.

Though that speaks louder about how TGA sucked.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

I think she looks like Moneypenny

That's the girl from Skyfall right?

If so that's the one I thought of before I googled SA actresses.

Would have been another solid choice.

 

[-griffy-]

There's no jumping to conclusions, at all. Someone pointed out that Nadine looks like Kandyse, and some people tweeted her to ask. That's literally all there is to it. Not like they hit her up on twitter and were like "NAUGHTY DOG ARE STEALING YOUR FACE, SUE THEM NOW!"

I'll repeat: this thread, in aggregate.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

American Dreams? Dude, play the dlc.

Hmm, Ellie looks a lot like Ashley in that pic.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

No, I meant the sci fi comics that Ellie reads and you can collect.

Starlight something or other, right?

edit:

Savage Starlight

Yeah, that would be awesome.

 

[zsynqx]

Starlight something or other, right?

Savage Starlight

 

[ByWatterson]

You realize that this goal of "best" actor is completely a myth?

I'm pretty sure Struckmann has final call on casting, and they went with what they think is best.

They, the artists, who should be trusted with their art.

It's not a myth, it's an opinion. And their opinion, that of the artists, is what matters.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's not one person who feels this way. It's also not the first time a character in a Naughty Dog game has looked like a current actor either.

It's extremely common for character designers to use parts of a real persons likeness when designing a realistic character. For example, Heather from Silent Hill 3 is a combination of Sophie Marceau and Charlotte Gainsbourg.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

I mean, it is a bizarre choice. I assume the people responsible for casting the role were aware that this is a kind of shitty thing to do (it isn't like there are hundreds of quality roles for black females in video games), so I'd like to hear their reasoning. I don't think anyone is a villain here and obviously the quality of the game as a whole probably won't be affected, but I'm disappointed all the same.

Well said

 

[SomedayTheFire]

If your position on the topic isn't 'the game would be worst with a black actress', then I don't really understand your argument. The world is unquestionably a better place with more black actresses getting cast in roles that belong to them (I'm not going to elaborate on this, because it's almost 2016). You stand to lose nothing. You have everything you would have otherwise had, and also a minority or otherwise underrepresented party gets to have a win. It's a 'let's all eat the cake and have it to' situation. Everybody wins.

ND are an extremely talented group of people who do a lot for the betterment of, like, video games and its surrounding culture.Bailey is probably a fantastic actor. But they should have cast a black actress in the role.

This is a nice post. Just solid all around from you in this thread.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I'm pretty sure Struckmann has final call on casting, and they went with what they think is best.

They, the artists, who should be trusted with their art.

It's not a myth, it's an opinion. And their opinion, that of the artists, is what matters.

You can still criticise a work of art, you know. And you can like a piece of art without thinking it is perfect and impossible to improve in any way.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Arguing about the context surrounding the casting decision is completely meaningless, we know nothing about it and probably never will.

 

[prwxv3]

There's no jumping to conclusions, at all. Someone pointed out that Nadine looks like Kandyse, and some people tweeted her to ask. That's literally all there is to it. Not like they hit her up on twitter and were like "NAUGHTY DOG ARE STEALING YOUR FACE, SUE THEM NOW!"

If an actor is doing mo-cap, face-cap, and VA, how is it different?

You dont see the the person behind the mo cap. Anyone can mo-cap for any character of any race.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

I'm pretty sure Struckmann has final call on casting, and they went with what they think is best.

They, the artists, who should be trusted with their art.

It's not a myth, it's an opinion. And their opinion, that of the artists, is what matters.

No one's denying it's their call, but the point of art is that people absolutely have the right to criticise based on what they think. They made a decision, more power to them. Not everyone is going to agree with it.

And of course, there's no real way of knowing if she was really best for the job since there's sooooo many actors out there. It's basically close-to-impossible to find someone who is the only person in the world who is "best" because of that.

 

[Davenday]

So the art is less important than a social imperative.

Fine, okay. But then you should be pushing for more black voice actors to be used across the board, not simply on those occasions where a black part goes to a white actor.

This thread seems to boil down to, "Hey, the colors don't match! I'm offended!"

I don't get that approach. I see all the performers as individuals, not as part of a group. I suppose saying that is a microaggression circa 2015.

This. If I'm correct on the logic of the argument in general, then we have should been outraged at all of the voice actors in the English dubs in anime because they aren't Japanese.

There is a history of this going back to a while (with Phil LaMarr being Vamp in MGS and Ramza in FFT, which was mentioned in the thread, Bryan Cranston as Fei Long in the Street Fighter II Animated movie). This scenario in Uncharted 4 fits the same bill. IMO, this is being brought up because of recent events.

To me, this whole thing seems to be a bit of a leap.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

You dont see the the person behind the mo cap. Anyone can mo-cap for any character of any race.

If you take likeness (to the point of Until Dawn, for example), mo-cap, face-cap and VA, that is basically live action acting.

 

[Shadax the wizard]

Wow. Just wow..
I can't wrap my head around how they managed to get this kind of graphics.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Savage Starlight

Wait, is it me or does the guy look like Troy Baker?

edit: Troy Baker is so fucking handsome. I shouldn't be looking at pictures of him.

 

[ByWatterson]

You can still criticise a work of art, you know. And you can like a piece of art without thinking it is perfect and impossible to improve in any way.

Agreed, but art should be criticized AS art, not for how it failed to meet the standards of anyone's particular social agenda.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

This. If I'm correct on the logic of the argument in general, then we have should been outraged at all of the voice actors in the English dubs in anime because they aren't Japanese.

There is a history of this going back to a while (with Phil LaMarr being Vamp in MGS and Ramza in FFT, which was mentioned in the thread, Bryan Cranston as Fei Long in the Street Fighter II Animated movie). This scenario in Uncharted 4 fits the same bill. IMO, this is being brought up because of recent events.

To me, this whole thing seems to be a bit of a leap.

No one is saying anyone should be outraged. No one is outraged.

Agreed, but art should be criticized AS art, not for how it failed to meet the standards of anyone's particular social agenda.

Art can be criticised in numerous ways, there is not set booklet for the criticism of art. If a painter used a certain type of brush for his tree's, it's ok for me to criticise that use of brush.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Agreed, but art should be criticized AS art, not for how it failed to meet the standards of anyone's particular social agenda.

Are you saying stuff like Exodus: Gods and Kings shouldn't be criticised for whitewashing because it's "art"? Because that's not how it works. It's a piece of media, it has been released to the public, they can criticise it any way they feel and while we're still living in a society where PoC and other minorities are underrepresented and, in some cases, still oppressed, shit like that should absolutely be criticised.

 

[aly]

Wait, is it me or does the guy look like Troy Baker?

edit: Troy Baker is so fucking handsome. I shouldn't be looking at pictures of him.

Haha yeah it does. Troy Baker and the woman who played Marlene for Savage Starlight pls ND.

 

[stryke]

Wait, is it me or does the guy look like Troy Baker?

edit: Troy Baker is so fucking handsome. I shouldn't be looking at pictures of him.

reminds me more of Ewan McGregor's Obi Wan.

 

[Maintenance]

You dont see the the person behind the mo cap. Anyone can mo-cap for any character of any race.

IIRC Harley Quinn was mocapped by a man in one of the Batman games.

Found the video, don't know if it is true or just a prank by IGN.

 

[gamerMan]

I don't care about ND, nor am I attributing any sort of racist intentions to their team. Its an overt industry problem, you see signals of it in cases like this. Thats all. I just hope that this kind of discussion brings to light these issues, and in the future maybe we would get a black voice actor in such a situation.

Who knows, but why not aim higher.

Exactly, I think this issue should be brought up because video games are starting to rival films and Naughty Dog is leading the way so the criticism is something that should be discussed. With Naughty Dog games, we are entering Uncharted territory and characters and dialogue are more lifelike than we ever imagined. These games are starting to rival films and should be examined in the same way and held up to the same standards.

This has been going on for years in Hollywood and people are very vocal about it. Just because we don't get to see the characters in video games doesn't mean we don't have to have diversity and authenticity in the talent. Characters should be cast as if they would appear in a film role not because they are part of a limited pool of talent. Who auditioned for this role? Was there even an audition or did they pick Laura Bailey because she is part of a goto pool in videogames.

If people don't say anything, casters will continue to draw from a limited pool of voice over artists when actually the audience demands more diversity. Hopefully, in the future, they will be more adept to making casting decisions that satisfy the needs of the audience. If this didn't happen in the movie industry we would still have Mickey Rooney playing a Japanese business guy, Fu Manchu, and Jake Gyllenhaal as the Prince of Persia. Thankfully, the audience said something.

 

[Salex_]

My #1 pet peeve about this forum:
Guys, can we please stop presenting OPINIONS/ASSUMPTIONS as FACTS if you can't provide a source? I've seen this happen so many times on this forum. It's extremely annoying to see this happen on a members only dedicated gaming forum like this. I shouldn't have to check the source for every bit of information like I'm reading Youtube comments.

Anyone remember that huge Driveclub thread that spawned when a poster claimed that the Driveclub employee got fired (no source, presented as a fact)? And it turned out that he left because he just had a newborn child? This kind of situation starts from here all the time (on a smaller scale).
...

You know what kinda pisses me off?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._McClure_20090705_Japan_Expo_01_(cropped).jpg

This is Kandyse McClure, a South African born Canadian actress.

Tell me ND didn't pull an Ellen Page again and model Nadine after her?

Why is she not playing Nadine???

Bring in new talent ND FFS.

Well, I sure as shit hope they got her approval to use her likeness.

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/ph...nal-Still-kandyse-mcclure-8203251-332-500.jpg

Done.

*Tries to get a source*

This is pretty funny, but at least you're learning. Next time get the source before posting "facts". You can do it!

 

[ScaryShark]

It's extremely common for character designers to use parts of a real persons likeness when designing a realistic character. For example, Heather from Silent Hill 3 is a combination of Sophie Marceau and Charlotte Gainsbourg.

Not news to me and nothing bad about that in theory but ND seems to take it a step further and make almost exact copies of working actors. It's always been a weird thing to me as someone who really likes ND that they continue to do it sort of unchecked.

 

[histopher]

I hope the modellers and animators were black too, otherwise RACISM!

 

[ByWatterson]

Are you saying stuff like Exodus: Gods and Kings shouldn't be criticised for whitewashing because it's "art"? Because that's not how it works. It's a piece of media, it has been released to the public, they can criticise it any way they feel and while we're still living in a society where PoC and other minorities are underrepresented and, in some cases, still oppressed, shit like that should absolutely be criticised.

I'm saying it should be criticized if it's a bad film, poorly scripted, badly acted.

It should not be criticized for casting white actors in Semitic roles, unless those actors' performances cannot be bought BECAUSE they were white.

I'm guessing everyone here will not be able to distinguish Laura Bailey, in game, as a white woman in a black voice role.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

If your position on the topic isn't 'the game would be worst with a black actress', then I don't really understand your argument. The world is unquestionably a better place with more black actresses getting cast in roles that belong to them (I'm not going to elaborate on this, because it's almost 2016). You stand to lose nothing. You have everything you would have otherwise had, and also a minority or otherwise underrepresented party gets to have a win. It's a 'let's all eat the cake and have it to' situation. Everybody wins.

ND are an extremely talented group of people who do a lot for the betterment of, like, video games and its surrounding culture.Bailey is probably a fantastic actor. But they should have cast a black actress in the role.

I agree.

At the very least, however, a lack of actors of color can't be used as an excuse for not having characters of color from now on.

 

[Shenmue]

Wait, is it me or does the guy look like Troy Baker?

edit: Troy Baker is so fucking handsome. I shouldn't be looking at pictures of him.

OMG right? Last night at the VGAs he looked particularly dreamy.

That guy knows how to dress.



On topic: Also I'm not seeing the resemblance between Kandyse and the character. Their forehead shape doesn't even look the same.

 

[Davenday]

No one is saying anyone should be outraged. No one is outraged.

Apologies on the poor word choice on my part. Replace that with 'concerned'.

 

[Curufinwe]

If your position on the topic isn't 'the game would be worst with a black actress', then I don't really understand your argument. The world is unquestionably a better place with more black actresses getting cast in roles that belong to them (I'm not going to elaborate on this, because it's almost 2016). You stand to lose nothing. You have everything you would have otherwise had, and also a minority or otherwise underrepresented party gets to have a win. It's a 'let's all eat the cake and have it to' situation. Everybody wins.

ND are an extremely talented group of people who do a lot for the betterment of, like, video games and its surrounding culture.Bailey is probably a fantastic actor. But they should have cast a black actress in the role.

Voice acting roles don't belong to anybody based on how they look.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

reminds me more of Ewan McGregor's Obi Wan.

Ohhh. That too.

Now I want Amy Hennig/Jade Raymond's EA team to work on an Obi Wan action-adventure game. <3

OMG right? Last night at the VGAs he looked particularly dreamy.

That guy knows how to dress.

<3 <3

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Ohhh. That too.

Now I want Amy Hennig/Jade Raymond's EA team to work on an Obi Wan action-adventure game. <3

<3<3

The dream.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I hope the modellers and animators were black too, otherwise RACISM!

Not how it works

I'm saying it should be criticized if it's a bad film, poorly scripted, badly acted.

It should not be criticized for casting white actors in Semitic roles, unless those actors' performances cannot be bought BECAUSE they were white.

I'm guessing everyone here will not be able to distinguish Laura Bailey, in game, as a white woman in a black voice role.

Not how it works either. And Gods and Kings is fucking racist. The lead characters are played by white actors. Then the extras, non-main cast, servants etc are - guess what - played by PoCs. Great job.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Voice acting roles don't belong to anybody based on how they look.

I guess we just disagree then. Though I think the rest of the post still makes a decent point, even if you disagree with that part.

It's worth pointing out that I wasn't basing the argument on 'how an actor looks', but rather 'the minorities they represent', which is a worthwhile distinction.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I hope the modellers and animators were black too, otherwise RACISM!

That the best you can do?

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Not how it works either. And Gods and Kings is fucking racist. The lead characters are played by white actors. Then the extras, non-main cast, servants etc are - guess what - played by PoCs. Great job.

I hated Scott's response to the criticism raised on that topic. Pretty shitty to be honest.

 

[Kinyou]

IIRC Harley Quinn was mocapped by a man in one of the Batman games.

Found the video, don't know if it is true or just a prank by IGN.

Is that actor Asian?
Would this mean Harley now adds to representation of Asian Americans?

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

IIRC Harley Quinn was mocapped by a man in one of the Batman games.

Found the video, don't know if it is true or just a prank by IGN.

Hate that thumbnail text.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

IIRC Harley Quinn was mocapped by a man in one of the Batman games.

Found the video, don't know if it is true or just a prank by IGN.

Stay classy IGN.

 

[Curufinwe]

I guess we just disagree then. Though I think the rest of the post still makes a decent point, even if you disagree with that part.

Based on your argument you must also think that black voice actors should not be playing white characters in videogames because those roles belong to white people.

I totally disagree with that kind of thinking. It's abhorrent.

 

[ByWatterson]

Not how it works

Not how it works either. And Gods and Kings is fucking racist. The lead characters are played by white actors. Then the extras, non-main cast, servants etc are - guess what - played by PoCs. Great job.

You sure Ridley Scott didn't just want to work with Bale? Seems a lot simpler

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Apologies on the poor word choice on my part. Replace that with 'concerned'.

Well, I do think we should all be concerned about the fact non white roles are given to white actors (again using this as a broad term) over non white actors for non white roles. Media as a whole has a pretty big representation problem when it comes to that. But it's not for me to tell you what to be concerned about. I'm disappointed in the trend, as others are in this thread, but we aren't telling you how to feel or act. We just want to clear things up and maybe try to enlighten others as to why we're concerned.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

You sure Ridley Scott didn't just want to work with Bale? Seems a lot simpler

Actually, thinking about it now, I'm definitely wrong. I'm sure it just so happened that all of the white actors were the best actors for the lead roles, but all of the PoCs were the best actors for the thieves, servants, etc. I'm sure Scott just chose the best people for the job! It's all about the performance!

 

[maquiladora]

Agreed, but art should be criticized AS art, not for how it failed to meet the standards of anyone's particular social agenda.

It's not a 300 year old Dutch painting hanging in a gallery.

It's a piece of popular entertainment, a product for consumers to purchase en masse, created during and released into the current social climate. Of course it should be critically looked at through the lens of today's culture & society.

 

[PBY]

Based on your argument you must also think that black voice actors should not be playing white characters in videogames because those roles belong to white people.

I totally disagree with that kind of thinking. It's abhorrent.

Man... Some of ya'll reaaaaally make something fairly simple so complicated.

This was a great opportunity to give a black woman VA work on a high profile title. They didn't do that. Seems like a missed opportunity in an industry starved for diversity. People are allowed to point that out.

Geez.

 

[ZangBa]

Actually, thinking about it now, I'm definitely wrong. I'm sure it just so happened that all of the white actors were the best actors for the lead roles, but all of the PoCs were the best actors for the thieves, servants, etc. I'm sure Scott just chose the best people for the job! It's all about the performance!

I hope this is sarcastic because you are killing me right now, lmao.

 

[Curufinwe]

Man... Some of ya'll reaaaaally make something fairly simple so complicated.

This was a great opportunity to give a black woman VA work on a high profile title. They didn't do that. Seems like a missed opportunity in an industry starved for diversity. People are allowed to point that out.

Geez.

Every female role in the game could have been played by a black woman.