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[ItIsOkBro]

Man... Some of ya'll reaaaaally make something fairly simple so complicated.

This was a great opportunity to give a black woman VA work on a high profile title. They didn't do that. Seems like a missed opportunity in an industry starved for diversity. People are allowed to point that out.

Geez.

But is it bad to not do something good?

 

[NastyBook]

She is swole as shit. That fight is gonna be aggravating as hell on Crushing. Two punches and you're dead.

 

[Triggafinga]

If your position on the topic isn't 'the game would be worst with a black actress', then I don't really understand your argument. The world is unquestionably a better place with more black actresses getting cast in roles that belong to them (I'm not going to elaborate on this, because it's almost 2016). You stand to lose nothing. You have everything you would have otherwise had, and also a minority or otherwise underrepresented party gets to have a win. It's a 'let's all eat the cake and have it to' situation. Everybody wins.

ND are an extremely talented group of people who do a lot for the betterment of, like, video games and its surrounding culture.Bailey is probably a fantastic actor. But they should have cast a black actress in the role.

I disagree. Set a deadline and cast as many voices as possible (no discrimination). Then choose the best voice for the job. Being black I like affirmative action but look at gaming like sports. Talent affects the GAMES majorly.

 

[PBY]

But is not doing something great, bad?

It can be? We don't know how the hiring went down, so I'm not going to make that kind of judgment.

 

[padlock]

So if a character is straight, we should exclude all gay voice actors?

How about they simply cast who they think would to the best job, irrespective of anything else?

Or is that too sensible?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I hope this is sarcastic because you are killing me right now, lmao.

It was

 

[PBY]

So if a character is straight, we should exclude all gay voice actors?

How about they simply cast who they think would to the best job, irrespective of anything else?

Or is that too sensible?

I can't.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Based on your argument you must also think that black voice actors should not be playing white characters in videogames because those roles belong to white people.

I totally disagree with that kind of thinking. It's abhorrent.

As a white guy who grew up in a western country, it took me a while to understand that you can't role reverse when talking about races and expect your point to make any sense.

In your scenario, I'd just be happy that more black voice actors are getting to play complex, interesting characters in video games. It's a completely different argument. White people stand to lose nothing.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I disagree. Set a deadline and cast as many voices as possible (no discrimination). Then choose the best voice for the job. Being black I like affirmative action but look at gaming like sports. Talent affects the GAMES majorly.

My problem with the talent vs authenticity is the industry is so dominated by a select group of people, most are white, that we just assume they're the best at their roles based on their names rather than giving new roles to new people. As I've said in this thread VA is such an insular community, we only hear the major names. There's nothing to say lesser known VA's aren't just as good, if not better than the big names, because all we hear are the big names. It's not too much of a stretch to say some of these names are cast because of their rapport with developers to the disadvantage of other lesser knows VA's.

 

[ZangBa]

It was

You can never be too sure on this forum sometimes. C:

 

[ByWatterson]

So if a character is straight, we should exclude all gay voice actors?

How about they simply cast who they think would to the best job, irrespective of anything else?

Or is that too sensible?

Apparently.

 

[PBY]

Apparently.

I really really can't.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

So if a character is straight, we should exclude all gay voice actors?

How about they simply cast who they think would to the best job, irrespective of anything else?

Or is that too sensible?

Totally odd argument, I don't think a person's sexuality dictate how they act or appear. They are just normal people, and you'd probably have to be told what sex they are attracted to.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

My problem with the talent vs authenticity is the industry is so dominated by a select group of people, most are white, that we just assume they're the best at their roles based on their names rather than giving new roles to new people. As I've said in this thread VA is such an insular community, we only hear the major names. There's nothing to say lesser known VA's aren't just as good, if not better than the big names, because all we hear are the big names. It's not too much of a stretch to say some of these names are cast because of their rapport with developers to the disadvantage of other lesser knows VA's.

This is exactly what I thought as soon as I realized Nadine was her, sadly.

Like they thought, if the prior actors dropped out during the production difficulties (Todd Stashwick and -- do we know if another actress was in the Nadine role?), they panicked and didn't have time to go through formal auditions, so they just called up Troy and Laura because they're on-call and reliable or something.

Honestly hearing familiar voices like Laura Bailey et al is an immersion-breaker as is, but hearing her voice coming out of a black lady just doubles the ante, haha.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Not news to me and nothing bad about that in theory but ND seems to take it a step further and make almost exact copies of working actors. It's always been a weird thing to me as someone who really likes ND that they continue to do it sort of unchecked.

But they typically don't look exactly like a single actor. Someone already pointed out another actress that this character has some resemblance to. And that's because much like with Heather, these characters are often a combination of features from actors plus the artists own input. Like with Heather some of the female staff at Team Silent gave them input on how they felt a teen girls hair would look like.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

You can never be too sure on this forum sometimes. C:

Indeed

I really really can't.

I don't even know what to say either. There are some incredible leaps of logic in this thread, as well as many false equivalencies.

 

[twobear]

the accent is a bit iffy tbh

 

[SomedayTheFire]

So if a character is straight, we should exclude all gay voice actors?

How about they simply cast who they think would to the best job, irrespective of anything else?

Or is that too sensible?

Apparently.

 

[benicillin]

This is exactly what I thought as soon as I realized it, sadly.

Like they thought, if the prior actors dropped out during the production difficulties (Todd Stashwick and -- do we know if another actress was in the Nadine role?), they panicked and didn't have time to go through formal auditions, so they just called up Troy and Laura because they're on-call and reliable or something.

This is a disrespectful line of thinking to the hard work that Laura and Troy and Nolan and anyone other "well known VA" puts in.

 

[Oppo]

Man... Some of ya'll reaaaaally make something fairly simple so complicated.

This was a great opportunity to give a black woman VA work on a high profile title. They didn't do that. Seems like a missed opportunity in an industry starved for diversity. People are allowed to point that out.

Geez.

I get what you are saying, but auditions are such a nebulous thing... and the vagaries of being comfortable with action-heavy mo-cap, schedules, all the stuff an Uncharted "voice actor" needs... it's really hard to say. Black women are of course underrepresented but that's true of the reality of the hiring pool as well sadly.

Also, as for the "digital blackface" thing mentioned upthread .. I'll admit I didn't read too much of the early thread as it seemed like a minefield... but they have to make the actor's face match roughly 70% with the mocap or it falls apart. There's no getting around that really. It's not even a technical limitation, it's an uncanny valley thing.

In the end ND has to hire whom they hire, I'm quite sure they were very painfully aware of the potential issue here, and decided what they did. In the end I choose to see what's on the screen – which seems like a pretty badass portrayal of a black female character , not dissimilar to Michonne from Walking Dead, as a positive thing overall.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

As a white guy who grew up in a western country, it took me a while to understand that you can't role reverse when talking about races and expect your point to make any sense.

In your scenario, I'd just be happy that more black voice actors are getting to play complex, interesting characters in video games. It's a completely different argument. White people stand to lose nothing.

So white people only act as white people, but everyone else can be anything they want? Or are there further restrictions that developers need to follow when casting?

 

[PBY]

So white people only act as white people, but everyone else can be anything they want? Or are there further restrictions that developers need to follow when casting?

Kind of yeah? You realize that black people CANT be anything they want due to the significant structural barriers that prevent them from doing so?

 

[Alienous]

This is a disrespectful line of thinking to the hard work that Laura and Troy and Nolan and anyone other "well known VA" puts in.

No. I could see Naughty Dog hiring them because they are talented and reliable. They had to show a lot of actors the ropes for The Last of Us, along with having an audition process in which they tried to find chemistry between pairs of actors.

Given the fact that they had to scrap months of work and start over with a (mostly) new cast I could see there not being enough time for the above. You can get Nolan, Troy and Laura into a studio, they will have worked together and know what the job requires, and move on with production more quickly than you can try to nurture new talent.

It's like an ensemble cast of video game voice actors, and following The Last of Us I don't see why that would be Naughty Dog's intention if it wasn't a decision born out of necessity, but it'll probably work out for them.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Kind of yeah? You realize that black people CANT be anything they want due to the significant structural barriers that prevent them from doing so?

Sure, I get that. Though, I don't think that saying "white people can be only white people" is a proportionate response that will help solve any of those structural issues. In fact, I think it's gross.

No. I could see Naughty Dog hiring them because they are talented and reliable. They had to show a lot of actors the ropesfor The Last of Us, along with having an audition process in which they tried to find chemistry between pairs of actors.

Given the fact that they had to scrap months of work and start over with a (mostly) new cast I could see there not being enough time for the above. You can get Nolan, Troy and Laura into a studio, they will have worked together and know what the job requires, and move on with production more quickly than you can try to nurture new talent.

It's like an ensemble cast of video game voice actors, and following The Last of Us I don't see why that would be Naughty Dog's intention if it wasn't a decision born out of necessity, but it'll probably work out for them.

Again, +1 to this.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/29/88...-nolan-north-hennig-last-us-druckmann-straley

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

This is a disrespectful line of thinking to the hard work that Laura and Troy and Nolan and anyone other "well known VA" puts in.

How's it disrespectful?

Maybe the idea that they weren't the first choices for the parts can be seen as "disrespectful", but we already know for a fact Troy Baker wasn't the first choice for Sam and he had to be hired in the middle of a troubled production to replace someone who dropped out. Alan Tudyk revealed that he left the game too. It's not out of plausibility to think Laura Bailey's a similar situation since she's only known to have joined the cast very late in the game's developmental timeline.

I'm more than aware of the work they've put into prior mocap and voice roles and that's what got them their parts in the game. I'm simply speculating and wondering if Laura is playing a part that had to be recast due to production difficulties, and was hired with Troy specifically due to their reliable nature and familiarity with each other and with Naughty Dog. Stopping the project and doing MORE auditions could've been too time-consuming/expensive, so they just called whoever they knew could pull it off on short notice, for better (Troy is fine for Sam) or for worse (like Laura, not entirely comfortable with her casting in this specific role even if I'm a fan of her work). That's all.

EDIT: Alienous covered some of what I think pretty well.

 

[PBY]

Sure, I get that. I don't think that saying "white people can be only white people" is a proportionate response though. In fact, I think it's gross.

You keep throwing out words like gross, abhorrent, etc. Don't think you know what those words mean in this context as applied to your views.

 

[Coffee Dog]

You keep throwing out words like gross, abhorrent, etc. Don't think you know what those words mean in this context as applied to your views.

Just go ahead and explain it if you're going to disregard the rest of his post anyway.

 

[PBY]

Just go ahead and explain it if you're going to disregard the rest of his post anyway.

I have, as have many posters in this thread.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

My #1 pet peeve about this forum:
Guys, can we please stop presenting OPINIONS/ASSUMPTIONS as FACTS if you can't provide a source? I've seen this happen so many times on this forum. It's extremely annoying to see this happen on a members only dedicated gaming forum like this. I shouldn't have to check the source for every bit of information like I'm reading Youtube comments.

Anyone remember that huge Driveclub thread that spawned when a poster claimed that the Driveclub employee got fired (no source, presented as a fact)? And it turned out that he left because he just had a newborn child? This kind of situation starts from here all the time (on a smaller scale).
...






This is pretty funny, but at least you're learning. Next time get the source before posting "facts". You can do it!

Yay!

Anyway.

Kandyse/Nadine are gorgeous and already looking like an awesome female character.

 

[igordennis]

I can't.

I really really can't.

Is this your method of arguing? Do you think you'll convince anyone with posts like these? I dont even disagree with you but this is useless.

If you apparently cant maybe just stop posting in this thread since you have been getting more and more dismissive of others?

 

[PBY]

Is this your method of arguing? Do you think you'll convince anyone with posts like these? I dont even disagree with you but this is useless.

If you apparently cant maybe just stop posting on this thread since you have been getting more and more dismissive of others?

I've made my point. It's a fairly benign one. It's not on me to explain why offensively off key false equivalences don't make sense.

 

[MillionStabs]

That's Laura Bailey? I can barely tell, she does Bri'ish accents good.

Also, after playing UC1 in the Collection, Drake looks like an old man here.

 

[igordennis]

I've made my point. It's a fairly benign one. It's not on me to explain why offensively off key false equivalences don't make sense.

Alright then, carry on.

 

[nbnt]

That's Laura Bailey? I can barely tell, she does Bri'ish accents good.

Also, after playing UC1 in the Collection, Drake looks like an old man here.

Well he's supposed to be ~39 here so..

 

[Triggafinga]

If the question is should ND (or the industry in general) have a more open
process when casting VA roles?

That would be nice but I don't have a strong opinion because i'm not in the industry. Moreover the gaming industry strikes me as insular but competitive. There's only a number of AAA studios therefore its not a big deal. IMO

I read posts that trumpeting having the VA and game character's skin tone match is a logical step for human kind. I hope the game industry chooses talent everytime. Making arbitrary unwritten rules about who you can hire not only hurts the creative process, it undermines diversity IMO. I'm selfish, I like games.

 

[lukeskymac]

Whenever it seems the issue has been put to rest, there it is again. Don't you people have anything better to do than reignite a discussion that's clearly going nowhere multiple times?

 

[Shadax the wizard]

Geez. This is ridiculous..
It's obvious that Nate is going to get his ass kicked in this sequence and Nadine will escape with the crucifix.

 

[jett]

Afaik, they already kind of did that with this game. Actors were wearing little dots on their faces during recording sessions. Maybe it was just to then make the animators jobs easier, I don't know. I still think the cutscene with the talk between Drake and Sam that we saw during game's first unveiling is masterclass, and they just have to keep doing whatever they've done there.

It was just very simple stuff compared to what is normally used today. They probably realized their keyframe animation wasn't going to be enough for the level of realism they were aiming for, and decided to use a few dots as a guide. They probably figured it was going to be too much work just doing it completely by hand and have it look right. Look back at their original teaser. The level of animation there is nowhere to be found in the actual game.

But having aimed for realism is why it looks off. The more real it looks, the more you're going to notice the oddities. Previous Uncharted games and TLOU, while not wholly cartoonish, clearly operated under an exaggerated realism guise. UC4 is way beyond that point.

 

[zsynqx]

It was just very simple stuff compared to what is normally used today. They probably realized their keyframe animation wasn't going to be enough for the level of realism they were aiming for, and decided to use a few dots as a guide. They probably figured it was going to be too much work just doing it completely by hand and have it look right. Look back at their original teaser. The level of animation there is nowhere to be found in the actual game.

But having aimed for realism is why it looks off. The more real it looks, the more you're going to notice the oddities. Previous Uncharted games and TLOU, while not wholly cartoonish, clearly operated under an exaggerated realism guise. UC4 is way beyond that point.

I really don't agree and they are stlll heavily stylized. The characters still have a small case of "Disney Eyes" and only use a very subtle amount of transparency and translucency in skin compared to other high fidelity games aiming for realism.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Well he's supposed to be ~39 here so..

That's like the prime age right there.

Dreamy.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Well he's supposed to be ~39 here so..

Really? He looks older than that. I figured early-mid 40s.

I really don't agree and they are stlll heavily stylized. The characters still have a small case of "Disney Eyes" and only use a very subtle amount of transparency and translucency in skin compared to other high fidelity games aiming for realism.

That gif is breaking my heart. So expressive.

 

[igordennis]

That gif is breaking my heart. So expressive.

I know right

 

[nbnt]

Really? He looks older than that. I figured early-mid 40s.

All men age, but not equally.

Spoiler

I'll see myself out.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

All men age, but not equally.

Spoiler

I'll see myself out.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I really don't agree and they are stlll heavily stylized. The characters still have a small case of "Disney Eyes" and only use a very subtle amount of transparency and translucency in skin compared to other high fidelity games aiming for realism.

If Elena and Sully give me these emotional faces throughout the whole game, I'm going to die of heartbreak.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

You know what kinda pisses me off?

This is Kandyse McClure, a South African born Canadian actress.

Tell me ND didn't pull an Ellen Page again and model Nadine after her?

Why is she not playing Nadine???

Bring in new talent ND FFS.

Maybe her schedule was too busy for VA work?

I mean better yet, why not just ask her on Twitter or Facebook her feelings on the character, if ND reached out to her, if she had scheduling conflicts, etc? Do you really feel the need to jump to the "they're racist!" angle right off the bat?

EDIT://

Also, I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but I'm gonna need to take a break from GAF. Like, a long break. The way this conversation's been going is not only nonsensical, it's downright embarrassing. There's literally nothing offensive about the trailer, and it's a crying shame it can't be judged on the merits of its own content or discussing about the character's personality or their dynamic with Nathan or where they could be in relation to other characters in the game's story.

The way the conversation's devolved into a talk about race simply b/c the character happens to be black and the VA happens to be white, is nothing short of jumping through several hoops to intentionally find ways to piss yourself off and try to find a way to sound progressive while coming off more as regressive if anything. A shame this is right around PSX time, but I'll manage. Have at it y'all.

 

[gamerMan]

So if a character is straight, we should exclude all gay voice actors?

How about they simply cast who they think would to the best job, irrespective of anything else?

Or is that too sensible?

Do you really believe she was cast because she was best for the role because to me it sounds like someone trying to do an accent. It a classic example of whitewashing.

I know people are bringing up that in voice over work anyone can be cast since we don't actually get to see them. However, these characters are not cartoons. It's not like this game looks like the Simpsons or King Of The Hill or Aladdin or even God Of War. These characters look like real humans or the closest a video game has ever gotten. Nadine almost looks real from the curls in her hair. They are basically digital actors and should be cast as such.

It it okay for a white person to play a person of color in a film? Would it be okay for Meryl Streep to play Oprah Winfrey in a film because she was "best" for the role? Does making it digital with realistic looking characters suddenly make it okay? Just because it's a video game doesn't make it any less important. Just because you can't see the voice actor doesn't make the issue less important.

Personally, I think it's fine, but I would rather have a person of color play the part in a industry where people of color are underrepresented. They are picking voice actors from a limited pool of talent. That's what this is about and people have a right to be upset.

Our society has yet to escape the legacy of these institutional casting practices, which still continue today in a much subtler form. Even today, although actors of color are underrepresented in the media, characters of color are still cast with majority actors because they are the "best" for the role. Doesn't that sound like an oxymoron?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Do you really believe she was cast because she was best for the role because to me it sounds like someone trying to do an accent. It a classic example of whitewashing.

I know people are bringing up that in voice over work anyone can be cast since we don't actually get to see them. However, these characters are not cartoons. It's not like this game looks like the Simpsons or King Of The Hill or Aladdin or even God Of War. These characters look like real humans or the closest a video game has ever gotten. Nadine almost looks real from the curls in her hair. They are basically digital actors and should be cast as such.

It it okay for a white person to play a person of color in a film? Would it be okay for Meryl Streep to play Oprah Winfrey in a film because she was "best" for the role? Does making it digital with realistic looking characters suddenly make it okay? Just because it's a video game doesn't make it any less important. Just because you can't see the voice actor doesn't make the issue less important.

Personally, I think it's fine, but I would rather have a person of color play the part in a industry where people of color are underrepresented. They are picking voice actors from a limited pool of talent. That's what this is about and people have a right to be upset.

Our society has yet to escape the legacy of these institutional casting practices, which still continue today in a much subtler form. Even today, although actors of color are underrepresented in the media, characters of color are still cast with majority actors because they are the "best" for the role. Doesn't that sound like an oxymoron?

That all sounds good until people are saying the only person that can play a black person is a black person .
What if ND choose a hispanic to play the part i wonder if people would be saying what they are saying now.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Do you really believe she was cast because she was best for the role because to me it sounds like someone trying to do an accent. It a classic example of whitewashing.

I know people are bringing up that in voice over work anyone can be cast since we don't actually get to see them. However, these characters are not cartoons. It's not like this game looks like the Simpsons or King Of The Hill or Aladdin or even God Of War. These characters look like real humans or the closest a video game has ever gotten. Nadine almost looks real from the curls in her hair. They are basically digital actors and should be cast as such.

It it okay for a white person to play a person of color in a film? Would it be okay for Meryl Streep to play Oprah Winfrey in a film because she was "best" for the role? Does making it digital with realistic looking characters suddenly make it okay? Just because it's a video game doesn't make it any less important. Just because you can't see the voice actor doesn't make the issue less important.

Personally, I think it's fine, but I would rather have a person of color play the part in a industry where people of color are underrepresented. They are picking voice actors from a limited pool of talent. That's what this is about and people have a right to be upset.

Our society has yet to escape the legacy of these institutional casting practices, which still continue today in a much subtler form. Even today, although actors of color are underrepresented in the media, characters of color are still cast with majority actors because they are the "best" for the role. Doesn't that sound like an oxymoron?

I still say this is a weird approach to take when the "digital actors" often barely resemble the characters they are playing.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

That all sounds good until people are saying the only person that can play a black person is a black person .
What if ND choose a hispanic to play the part i wonder if people would be saying what they are saying now.

Even crazier: what if they picked a black Hispanic

Oh shit, right?