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[Rozart]

see, this is what i'm talking about. where are you seeing outrage? who's cursing out naughty dog? who's swearing off all naughty dog games? did someone start a twitter campaign?

where is it?

Would dissent be a better word?

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

I like the fact that she's ripped. Look at her biceps and triceps. Female characters are rarely depicted like that and it's refreshing as hell.

 

[PhantomVash808]

March 18th can't come quick enough.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Would dissent be a better word?

Sure. So long as this narrative that people are frothing at the mouth, calling for Druckmann's head isn't getting pushed continually, it'll be a better choice.

 

[electroshockwave]

I can see how the kneejerk response to a white woman playing a black character can come about, especially with that post, but this controversy has no merit. ND has a good record of including people of colour as characters and voice actors. Therefore I trust that Laura Bailey was chosen because she was the best person they could get for the job.

Voice actors aren't required to look like the character. I certainly had no problem with T.C Carson playing Kratos or Phil Lamarr playing Vamp. It would be hypocrisy to take issue with a white VA playing a black character but not vice versa.

 

[GravityInsanity]

Jeez...I don't remember Clementine gets this kind of controversy when it turned out it was played by a grown white woman.

 

[shinobi602]

Voice actors aren't required to look like the character. I certainly had no problem with T.C Carson playing Kratos or Phil Lamarr playing Vamp. It would be hypocrisy to take issue with a white VA playing a black character but not vice versa.

They'd likely take issue with that too.

"So they hired a black actor but made the in-game character white? Racist."

Can't win.

 

[udivision]

They'd likely take issue with that too.

"So they hired a black actor but made the in-game character white? Racist."

Can't win.

Phil Lamarr voiced Samurai Jack.

And the character in my avatar.

What a crazy world.

 

[Rozart]

I like the fact that she's ripped. Look at her biceps and triceps. Female characters are rarely depicted like that and it's refreshing as hell.

Yes! I really like her character design.

Sure. So long as this narrative that people are frothing at the mouth, calling for Druckmann's head isn't getting pushed continually, it'll be a better choice.

Alrighty then. Dissent it is.

 

[Super Stardust]

ND should lend their character tools to the Xenoblade devs

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

Adult women voice acting as children is typical for voice acting. It's also not comparable. It's how children have been voice acted for decades

If that's the best that folks can come up with then cmon now. If you really can't see the difference then I don't know, I just don't know.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I like the fact that she's ripped. Look at her biceps and triceps. Female characters are rarely depicted like that and it's refreshing as hell.

Yeah, she's not just a little buff, she's absolutely ripped. Love it. Has she been in the multiplayer beta or trailers yet?

March 18th can't come quick enough.

If by any chance there was another delay I might just scream.

You might have missed the fun "negro" thread about Xenoblade X. It was something else.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

This pic describes my feelings toward gaf sense the game awards. Just been down hill since

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

They'd likely take issue with that too.

"So they hired a black actor but made the in-game character white? Racist."

Can't win.

Always weird for me to see comments like this. To think there's a winner or loser in the this discussion. I mean it explains the comments from some people who want to defend this and their goal to stop any type of criticism/conversation to be had.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

This pic describes my feelings toward gaf sense the game awards. Just been down hill since

Advice: go into a thread where people are actually talking about playing a game, like an OT or a community thread. Much saner in there. I keep trying to talk about the trailer and the impending PSX showing in here to no avail. ¯|_(&#12484_|¯

 

[Massive_Edge]

I think certain situations arise in voice acting where a actor has to portray a character of another race or ethnic background, obviously Laura Bailey isn't the ideal choice, but as long as this isn't a huge trend in gaming this will blow over

Phil Lamarr played Vamp

TC Carson played a greek

Quinton Flynn played a girl in MGS 2

i mean certain voice actors fit the roles

 

[x-Lundz-x]

It's the first time I'm hearing of it and I find that just as disappointing.

So when you were playing TWD (assuming you even did) were you thinking about what a great character she was or who was voicing her?

You find out three years later she was voiced by an adult white white woman and it's disappointing? Somehow one of the best female pro tags in a game in a long time is invalided because of her voice actress?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Advice: go into a thread where people are actually talking about playing a game, like an OT or a community thread. Much saner in there. I keep trying to talk about the trailer and the impending PSX showing in here to no avail. ¯|_(&#12484_|¯

Lol i retreated to the one piece manga thread for awhile nice sane place. I dont expect psx to make things any better so I'll probably stay off here. Eat my crabs and get hyped by myself

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I think certain situations arise in voice acting where a actor has to portray a character of another race or ethnic background, obviously Laura Bailey isn't the ideal choice, but as long as this isn't a huge trend in gaming this will blow over

Phil Lamarr played Vamp

TC Carson played a greek

Quinton Flynn played a girl in MGS 2

i mean certain voice actors fit the roles

Do people honestly think this is funny? Second time I've seen this

So when you were playing TWD (assuming you even did) were you thinking about what a great character she was or who was voicing her?

You find out three years later she was voiced by an adult white white woman and it's disappointing? Somehow one of the best female pro tags in a game in a long time is invalided because of her voice actress?

Who said all that? He/she just said it was disappointing. That's all
What a perfect example of this thread.

 

[Calm waterfall]

Drake got his ass kicked haha.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Drake got his ass kicked haha.

Tends to happen to the poor fella.

 

[Massive_Edge]

Do people honestly think this is funny? Second time I've seen this


Who said all that? He/she just said it was disappointing. That's all
What a perfect example of this thread.

it's just a crude joke.....my apologies

 

[Frog-fu]

So when you were playing TWD (assuming you even did) were you thinking about what a great character she was or who was voicing her?

You find out three years later she was voiced by an adult white white woman and it's disappointing? Somehow one of the best female pro tags in a game in a long time is invalided because of her voice actress?

Yes it's disappointing because the state of black representation in this industry is woefully lacking and to find out that a half-black character that has been received so well was voiced by a white person is disheartening.

Forget the depressing lack of black representation in games for a minute. How many black developers do you know? How many studio heads? How many voice actors? And how many of those have any prominence whatsoever in the industry?

Laura Bailey is great at what she does, but that is completely beside the point. She doesn't represent black people. So why did Naughty Dog pick her to fill the role one of the few black women in gaming? Why did Telltale pick a white woman to play Clementine?

Neither choice is committing to diversity and equitable representation. It's taking shortcuts to progressivism and I don't appreciate it. I find it disappointing they would rather tell a story with black characters in it using white actors than allowing rare opportunities to be taken by black actors that, let's face it, aren't exactly getting a whole lot of them in an industry that almost exclusively caters to whites and Asians.

 

[shinobi602]

Always weird for me to see comments like this. To think there's a winner or loser in the this discussion. I mean it explains the comments from some people who want to defend this and their goal to stop any type of criticism/conversation to be had.

I'm not trying to stop anything, only shining a bit of light on the absurdity of whatever "issue" there supposedly is. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be restrictions to what race a person should be in order to play a video game character. Sorry but that's just absurd to me. If they get a black guy to voice a Chinese character, a black woman to voice a white character or a white woman to voice a black woman, etc etc, it shouldn't matter. The quality of the performance and the match of the voice to the character should be what matters.

Naughty Dog has proven to be inclusive of all types of people and pushes diversity. There is no issue here.

 

[Oersted]

I'm not trying to stop anything, only shining a bit of light on the absurdity of whatever "issue" there supposedly is. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be restrictions to what race a person should be in order to play a video game character. Sorry but that's just absurd to me. If they get a black guy to voice a Chinese character, a black woman to voice a white character or a white woman to voice a black woman, etc etc, it shouldn't matter. The quality of the performance and the match of the voice to the character should be what matters.

We do not live in a world void of context.

 

[nib95]

I'm not trying to stop anything, only shining a bit of light on the absurdity of whatever "issue" there supposedly is. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be restrictions to what race a person should be in order to play a video game character. Sorry but that's just absurd to me. If they get a black guy to voice a Chinese character, a black woman to voice a white character or a white woman to voice a black woman, etc etc, it shouldn't matter. The quality of the performance and the match of the voice to the character should be what matters.

Naughty Dog has proven to be inclusive of all types of people and pushes diversity. There is no issue here.

Well said. As previously mentioned, the 3 main black characters in their last game were all voiced by black actors, and Pema Dhondup played Tenzin before that. They obviously used Laura because they thought her performance was best for the role, in the same way they used Troy to play an old Texan, or Ashley to play a child.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I'm not trying to stop anything, only shining a bit of light on the absurdity of whatever "issue" there supposedly is. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be restrictions to what race a person should be in order to play a video game character. Sorry but that's just absurd to me. If they get a black guy to voice a Chinese character, a black woman to voice a white character or a white woman to voice a black woman, etc etc, it shouldn't matter. The quality of the performance and the match of the voice to the character should be what matters.

Naughty Dog has proven to be inclusive of all types of people and pushes diversity. There is no issue here.

Hmm.
Anyway, like another poster said your ignoring the realties of the world. Yeah, everything
your saying is nice but that's not how the world works. There's history and context to this stuff.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I'm not trying to stop anything, only shining a bit of light on the absurdity of whatever "issue" there supposedly is. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be restrictions to what race a person should be in order to play a video game character. Sorry but that's just absurd to me. If they get a black guy to voice a Chinese character, a black woman to voice a white character or a white woman to voice a black woman, etc etc, it shouldn't matter. The quality of the performance and the match of the voice to the character should be what matters.

Naughty Dog has proven to be inclusive of all types of people and pushes diversity. There is no issue here.

I couldn't agree more. I've never questioned anything like that in the slightest. Like most people the only thing I'll ever question is the quality of the performance, nothing else matters to me when it comes to the voice of a character.

Hmm.
Anyway, like another poster said your ignoring the realties of the world. Yeah, everything
your saying is nice but that's not how the world works. There's history and context to this stuff.

Ignoring the realities of the world? Just because he feels that way about something doesn't mean he's "ignoring" anything. Honestly I agree with him 100%. I just refuse to believe there's any real "issue" here, I think people are just searching for something. There's honestly no point in digging into something based solely on assumptions. It's not like multiple ethnicities were purposely overlooked and replaced by white actors or actresses.

 

[nib95]

Hmm.
Anyway, like another poster said your ignoring the realties of the world. Yeah, everything
your saying is nice but that's not how the world works.

And what is the context? That because of the whitewashing that often goes on in Hollywood, despite ND having been inclusive in the past, they should not be allowed to follow their artistic vision in picking who they feel is best for different roles, unless that actors colour matches that of the game character they're representing? Is that the context?

 

[shinobi602]

Hmm.
Anyway, like another poster said your ignoring the realties of the world. Yeah, everything
your saying is nice but that's not how the world works. There's history and context to this stuff.

If Naughty Dog held a narrow minded workmanship and had a history of denying diversity, you'd have a point, but they've shown they keep that in mind and work towards progress and regularly work with different minorities and ethnic groups. That doesn't mean every single black character must be voiced by a black person or every single Asian must be voiced by an Asian person, etc.

 

[Frog-fu]

I'm not trying to stop anything, only shining a bit of light on the absurdity of whatever "issue" there supposedly is. I firmly believe that there shouldn't be restrictions to what race a person should be in order to play a video game character. Sorry but that's just absurd to me. If they get a black guy to voice a Chinese character, a black woman to voice a white character or a white woman to voice a black woman, etc etc, it shouldn't matter. The quality of the performance and the match of the voice to the character should be what matters.

Naughty Dog has proven to be inclusive of all types of people and pushes diversity. There is no issue here.

I find your post irritatingly reminiscent of people that decry the acceptance of black actors being cast in roles that were originally white, even if no other reason than maintaining the status quo. You refuse to acknowledge there is a problem and even cite that predictable rigid adherence to "quality over all other factors" that carries the insulting implication casting black actors would somehow compromise that. Frankly, I expected better from you.

Reality check. White people aren't hurting for representation in videogames. They've got it and then some. The entire western gaming industry is designed to cater to them so they won't ever have to come close to fearing being "unable to relate" to minorities on screen.

Black people are lacking representation and I'd bet black voice actors have a tougher job of finding roles to an unreasonable degree considering how much black characters ain't shit in this industry in which latest trend hailed as progressivism are games with female leads, specifically white female leads.

You can extol all the virtues of a meritocratic industry as much as you'd like but they amount to nothing more than meaningless platitudes. The reality of the matter is the industry is not a meritocracy and diversity cannot flourish without opportunities to do so.

Naughty Dog did good with hiring black actors for The Last of Us. That doesn't give them a carte blanche going forward. If anything, after doing so well in their last game, it's the opposite. They should know better than to regress or half ass commitment to diversity.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Ignoring the realities of the world? Just because he feels that way about something doesn't mean he's "ignoring" anything. Honestly I agree with him 100%. I just refuse to believe there's any real "issue" here, I think people are just searching for something. There's honestly no point in digging into something based solely on assumptions. It's not like multiple ethnicities were purposely overlooked and replaced by white actors or actresses.

That representation of minorities isn't great? Sorry you don't see any issue here but I'm going to discuss it because I feel that there is one.

And what is the context? That because of the whitewashing that often goes on in Hollywood, despite ND having been inclusive in the past, they should not be allowed to follow their artistic vision in picking who they feel is best for different roles, unless that actors colour matches that of the game character they're representing? Is that the context?

Yep. That's one reasons among many others.
They can do whatever they want and in this case I'm criticizing them for this decision.

If Naughty Dog held a narrow minded workmanship and had a history of denying diversity, you'd have a point, but they've shown they keep that in mind and work towards progress and regularly work with different minorities and ethnic groups. That doesn't mean every single black character must be voiced by a black person or every single Asian must be voiced by an Asian person, etc.

No, I still have a point. Just because they have included people of color before in their games doesn't mean they get a "free pass" for this.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I find your post irritatingly reminiscent of people that decry the acceptance of black actors being cast in roles that were originally white, even if no other reason than maintaining the status quo. You refuse to acknowledge there is a problem and even cite that predictable rigid adherence to "quality over all other factors" that carries the insulting implication casting black actors would somehow compromise that. Frankly, I expected better from you.

Reality check. White people aren't hurting for representation in videogames. They've got it and then some. The entire western gaming industry is designed to cater to them so they won't ever have to come close to fearing being "unable to relate" to minorities on screen.

Black people are lacking representation and I'd bet black voice actors have a tougher job of finding roles to an unreasonable degree considering how much black characters ain't shit in this industry in which latest trend hailed as progressivism are games with female leads, specifically white female leads.

You can extol all the virtues of a meritocratic industry as much as you'd like but they amount to nothing more than meaningless platitudes. The reality of the matter is the industry is not a meritocracy and diversity cannot flourish without opportunities to do so.

Naughty Dog did good with hiring black actors for The Last of Us. That doesn't give them a carte blanche going forward. If anything, after doing so well in their last game, it's the opposite. They should know better than to regress or half ass commitment to diversity.

But in this case diversity is flourishing because it's more about the character than the actor playing them. Casting a black person just because isn't the right way to do things, after all there's a bunch of casting calls for these sorts of things. This is one of those situations where the gaming industry differs from the film industry. Some of the most prominent roles in games were, (unbeknownst to the general gaming populace if this thread is anything to go by), not played by the race of the character. This isn't a blackface issue because they're just taking the performance and applying it to a digital model. Which is done all the time, with black actors playing other races as well. You're doing more harm than good with this argument man.

 

[Oersted]

If Naughty Dog held a narrow minded workmanship and had a history of denying diversity, you'd have a point, but they've shown they keep that in mind and work towards progress and regularly work with different minorities and ethnic groups. That doesn't mean every single black character must be voiced by a black person or every single Asian must be voiced by an Asian person, etc.

Yes, they missed a chance here to keep up the tradition of diverse casting.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Yes, they missed a chance here to keep up the tradition of diverse casting.

Do we even know the rest of the cast?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Reality check. White people aren't hurting for representation in videogames. They've got it and then some. The entire western gaming industry is designed to cater to them so they won't ever have to come close to fearing being "unable to relate" to minorities on screen.

I've found that the "white" part of my heritage is pretty poorly represented within gaming. So I guess I should make it known to SSM that I want an actual Greek to be Kratos in the next God of War and not some black guy. They should be able to find a Greek to play a Greek. There's millions of us, many of us talented actors in fact. That's only fair right?

 

[Oersted]

Do we even know the rest of the cast?

The word here implies I'm talking about this specific choice, the topic at hand so to speak.

 

[bishoptl]

This pic describes my feelings toward gaf sense the game awards. Just been down hill since

...you can always go

 

[Rozart]

Laura Bailey is great at what she does, but that is completely beside the point. She doesn't represent black people. So why did Naughty Dog pick her to fill the role one of the few black women in gaming? Why did Telltale pick a white woman to play Clementine?

Neither choice is committing to diversity and equitable representation. It's taking shortcuts to progressivism and I don't appreciate it. I find it disappointing they would rather tell a story with black characters in it using white actors than allowing rare opportunities to be taken by black actors that, let's face it, aren't exactly getting a whole lot of them in an industry that almost exclusively caters to whites and Asians.

But that's what they have done in all their previous games: Merle Dandridge, Yaani King, T.J Ramini, Sayed Bradeya, James Sie. We don't know the circumstances that led to this casting choice. Did they feel that Laura was the best fit for the role?Could there have been some scheduling conflicts with some other VAs that they might have wanted?

The narrative that this casting is equivalent to "taking shortcuts to progressiveness" is what I mean when I say the dissent/negativity surrounding this issue is overwrought and forced. This is undercut even further by the fact that this game is developed by ND-- one of the major studios that tries to be diverse.

Honestly I agree with him 100%. I just refuse to believe there's any real "issue" here, I think people are just searching for something. There's honestly no point in digging into something based on solely on assumptions. It's not like ethnicities were purposely overlooked and replaced by white actors or actresses.

All of this,

EDIT:

Shinobi said it better than I did.

If Naughty Dog held a narrow minded workmanship and had a history of denying diversity, you'd have a point, but they've shown they keep that in mind and work towards progress and regularly work with different minorities and ethnic groups. That doesn't mean every single black character must be voiced by a black person or every single Asian must be voiced by an Asian person, etc.

 

[Akara]

Yes it's disappointing because the state of black representation in this industry is woefully lacking and to find out that a half-black character that has been received so well was voiced by a white person is disheartening.

Forget the depressing lack of black representation in games for a minute. How many black developers do you know? How many studio heads? How many voice actors? And how many of those have any prominence whatsoever in the industry?

Laura Bailey is great at what she does, but that is completely beside the point. She doesn't represent black people. So why did Naughty Dog pick her to fill the role one of the few black women in gaming? Why did Telltale pick a white woman to play Clementine?

Neither choice is committing to diversity and equitable representation. It's taking shortcuts to progressivism and I don't appreciate it. I find it disappointing they would rather tell a story with black characters in it using white actors than allowing rare opportunities to be taken by black actors that, let's face it, aren't exactly getting a whole lot of them in an industry that almost exclusively caters to whites and Asians.

Just an FYI we get SHUNNED the hell out in movies, and I hardly see asian representations in both mediums. This is ridiculous. You're making a big hoopla out of nothing, target the film industry if anything.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I've found that the "white" part of my heritage is pretty poorly represented within gaming. So I guess I should make it known to SSM that I want an actual Greek to be Kratos in the next God of War and not some black guy. They should be able to find a Greek to play a Greek. There's millions of us, many of us talented actors in fact. That's only fair right?

I agree that white american is incredibly common in this industry.

The word here implies I'm talking about this specific choice, the topic at hand so to speak.

But one character doesn't=not having diverse casting when we don't know the rest of the cast.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Just an FYI we get SHUNNED the hell out in movies, and I hardly see asian representations in both mediums. This is ridiculous. You're making a big hoopla out of nothing, target the film industry if anything.

I totally missed that gem in his comment. I mean, if anyone has the grounds to complain about Laura Bailey's casting, it'd be people of Asian descent since she's made a career on that. I don't think Asians have it half as good as he portrayed it.

I agree that white american is incredibly common in this industry.

I think using the term "white" isn't necessarily helpful anyways since there are plenty of "white" backgrounds that see little to no representation in gaming. You've got a monopoly within the industry mostly by those of Western European descent. Lots of others are left out. Like I said, is Greeks? Not represented well for the most part. I rarely get to "see myself" in games.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I've found that the "white" part of my heritage is pretty poorly represented within gaming. So I guess I should make it known to SSM that I want an actual Greek to be Kratos in the next God of War and not some black guy. They should be able to find a Greek to play a Greek. There's millions of us, many of us talented actors in fact. That's only fair right?

Sure. You say this like its a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see yourself represented.

 

[Oersted]

I agree that white american is incredibly common in this industry.


But one character doesn't=not having diverse casting when we don't know the rest of the cast.

They can make other casting choices, keeping up the tradition of diverse casting, yes. In this case they didn't.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Sure. You say this like its a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see yourself represented.

At the cost of taking the role away from the talented Terrence C. Carson? I was being snarky, because as much as I'd enjoy seeing a few more Greeks in games, I'm not going to advocate taking away Carson's role simply because he's not actually Greek. That's silly to me, and people suggesting that approach sound silly to me.

 

[WrenchNinja]

It would be one thing if Laura actually had some range and wasn't easily recognisable with a phony accent. But I guess all she can really do are variations on her regular voice, and yknow, Shinchan.

 

[dungeonmasterlvl4]

I bet they got

Spoiler

horses to voice the giraffes

in The Last of Us.

 

[Akara]

At the cost of taking the role away from the talented Terrence C. Carson? I was being snarky, because as much as I'd enjoy seeing a few more Greeks in games, I'm not going to advocate taking away Carson's role simply because he's not actually Greek. That's silly to me, and people suggesting that approach sound silly to me.

this is all dumb, so at this point, we can only voice characters that are our race? So if I'm a voice actor I pretty much can't voice anyone except asian characters?

Like i'll be honest, I do prefer the same race to play said character with same race in cartoons or video games. Would I be mad if that wasn't the case? Only if their performance sucked. But I'm not gonna look up every voice actor for every character that has a line in a video game or cartoon and see if their voice actor is the same race as the cartoon character or video game figure.

 

[Rozart]

No, I still have a point. Just because they have included people of color before in their games doesn't mean they get a "free pass" for this.

But the all those VAs of different ethnicity that they've casted before informs us that there are no racial politics at play here.

It would be one thing if Laura actually had some range and wasn't easily recognisable with a phony accent. But I guess all she can really do are variations on her regular voice, and yknow, Shinchan.

Wow.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

this is all dumb, so at this point, we can only voice characters that are our race? So if I'm a voice actor I pretty much can't voice anyone except asian characters?

Good luck with that. Video game VA (excluding Japanese game VA) is pretty much "Asians need not apply."