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[The Artisan]

Jesus people are fucking picky. Games have fucking looked great to me this generation.

I think it's more to fact that people (I guess the potential casual gamers) don't see a huge difference in graphics this gen from last gen, like they did the gen before it.

 

[viveks86]

Right, I fully believe they were able to get this trailer to 1080p/60fps but can't for the full game which is why it was extremely shortsighted to release it at 60 publicly.

Arne had promised that they would explain the situation when the time is right. I'm curious to learn more about it when that happens. But then, if they somehow pull it off towards the end of the dev cycle, then all this wouldn't matter at all.

 

[Dictator93]

Let me guess about the author..MrX?

TimDog probably. MrX cannot speak english.

 

[Anarion07]

Lightning and shadowing are immediately a step back from the trailer, as well geometry. In the reveal even when zooming in it was difficult to spots polygon edges, and in the new footage they are all over the place (And Drake was much closer to the camera in the reveal so it would be even more easy to spot). Granted, it's still hard to spot polygon edges in Drake's model but it just looks like a simplified version of the reveal model, special from the close up with open wounds.
.

Maybe they don't have the adaptive tesselation cranked up all the way yet, since it's pre-alpha.
At least that's what i hope for.

 

[El_Chino]

Much like Halo 5, i will hold off judging UC4 graphics until E3.

 

[viveks86]

Not really. It probably helped generate a lot of good word of mouth about PS4's power and sell a lot of hardware, even if Sony and ND knew full well that they were full of shit at the time.

Jilted later expectations are fine when you're building an install base early in a console's life, and people should expect this sort of thing from Sony now, to be honest.

LOL. Cool story bro. So Corinne and team worked without sleep on weekends to sell a handful of PS4s on the teaser for a game that wasn't coming out for more than 1.5 years?

 

[perineumlick]

I can't wait until close to release, when people will start losing their shit and beg to have their avatars put on the hype train, and all this bullshit will be forgotten. Because that's exactly what all this rhetoric is, creamy bullshit. Happens every time. Naughty Dog is being indicted for a crime they haven't even committed in here.

 

[xxracerxx]

I think it's more to fact that people (I guess the potential casual gamers) don't see a huge difference in graphics this gen from last gen, like they did the gen before it.

People say this all the time....give the generation some time, then bemoan that it is not great like the good ol' days.

 

[KOHIPEET]

TimDog probably. MrX cannot speak english.

Ice cold man, ice cold

 

[Kaswa101]

I can't wait until close to release, when people will start losing their shit and beg to have their avatars put on the hype train, and all this bullshit will be forgotten. Because that's exactly what all this rhetoric is, creamy bullshit. Happens every time. Naughty Dog is being indicted for a crime they haven't even committed in here.

.

 

[Journey]

TimDog probably. MrX cannot speak english.

Beaten..

I would say Mr. X doesn't have the competence

 

[xxracerxx]

Let me guess about the author..MrX?

A GAF member made it as a joke because people were crying downgradathon!

 

[Anarion07]

I can't wait until close to release, when people will start losing their shit and beg to have their avatars put on the hype train, and all this bullshit will be forgotten. Because that's exactly what all this rhetoric is, creamy bullshit. Happens every time. Naughty Dog is being indicted for a crime they haven't even committed in here.

Well they're not US cops, of course they're being indicted.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I can't wait until close to release, when people will start losing their shit and beg to have their avatars put on the hype train, and all this bullshit will be forgotten. Because that's exactly what all this rhetoric is, creamy bullshit. Happens every time. Naughty Dog is being indicted for a crime they haven't even committed in here.

Worst trend on gaf. Personally I can't wait to actually play the game, all the hype train nonsense is an off putting sideshow.

 

[nib95]

The cutscenes on the demo looked great, but it's clear to see they are not at the same level from the reveal.

Lightning and shadowing are immediately a step back from the trailer, as well geometry. In the reveal even when zooming in it was difficult to spots polygon edges, and in the new footage they are all over the place (And Drake was much closer to the camera in the reveal so it would be even more easy to spot). Granted, it's still hard to spot polygon edges in Drake's model but it just looks like a simplified version of the reveal model, special from the close up with open wounds.

His clothes for instance, a very big. In the preview drakes cloth has much more volume, with the wrinkles either being from real geometry or using a more complex shader to simulate the effect. While now it's clear it's just a texture simulating depth.

It might be all just lightning changes, but lightning alone has taken a substantial hit. And not just different time of day changes, the new lightning model looks far more basic than before.

I don't know how you are able to come to these conclusions based on the cut scene comparisons. Firstly, the only real reason geometry is not easily visible in the reveal trailer is because literally everything has a huge amount of depth of field applied. The few areas where the depth of field is amiss, you can clearly see geometry, such as under Drake in the sand in this shot here.

Also, lighting and shadowing doesn't look different with respect to actual shadow resolution and quality. The only difference seems to be in the actual lighting conditions, or in this instance bright sunlight vs bright moonlit night. The latter is naturally likely to lead to more exaggerated lighting, shadowing and highlights, due to the more contrasty nature.

I will have a right laugh if the next gameplay demo Naughty Dog release is the very level from the reveal trailer.

 

[Kayant]

Let me guess about the author..MrX?

Funny enough it's very close to home and was supposed to be a joke

Neogaf

 

[Sid]

I don't know how you are able to come to these conclusions. Firstly, the only real reason geometry is not easily visible in the reveal trailer is because literally everything has a huge amount of depth of field applied. The few areas where the depth of field is amiss, you can clearly see geometry, such as under Drake in the sand in this shot here.



Also, lighting and shadowing doesn't look different with respect to actual shadow resolution and quality. The only difference seems to be in the actual lighting conditions, or in this instance bright sunlight vs bright moonlit night. The latter is naturally likely to lead to more exaggerated lighting, shadowing and highlights, due to the more contrasty nature.

I will have a right laugh if the next gameplay demo Naughty Dog release is the very level from the reveal trailer.

You expect their next demo to run @ 60 frames as well?

 

[dan2026]

If Uncharted 4 runs at 60fps it will be a huge difference from last gen.
In fact it will be twice as good!

 

[nib95]

You expect their next demo to run @ 60 frames as well?

No. I expect it to be 30fps, but have close to the level of graphical fidelity seen in the reveal trailer, minus the excessive amount of depth of field that basically blurs every bit of background visible.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Don't.
Just don't.
That is NOT the same scene, NOT the same time of day, NOT the same jungle, NOT the same weather etc etc etc...
Just stop this picture.

Please stop. You're upsetting the cat.

 

[RoboPlato]

Man, now I really want them to hit 60 so that I can serve crow to so many of you who sound like you knew everything all along. So much presumptuousness around this issue. Saving them all just for the potential of future usage, however unlikely that may be

Heh

I am annoyed by this mostly because I was frequently using Uncharted 4 in debates about 60fps and console abilities because ND is a studio that I hold in such high regard. I feel like an idiot for saying that.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Let me guess about the author..MrX?

Th real creator of all this madness: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=142766653&postcount=1102

 

[The Artisan]

People say this all the time....give the generation some time, then bemoan that it is not great like the good ol' days.

Like you said, I think we've already seen some spectacular shit with the likes of asscreed unity, ryse, and driveclub. We just need to stop with the cross gen bullshit.

 

[Dictator93]

Heh

I am annoyed by this mostly because I was frequently using Uncharted 4 in debates about 60fps and console abilities because ND is a studio that I hold in such high regard. I feel like an idiot for saying that.

It's cool dude. I liked the GTX 970 so much for its price performance and VRAM amount that I recommended it to 3 different builds, which people got.

Now I feel like a putz for being had.

IMO, no one will ever hate on you for thinking that. You ahve always been pretty realistic

There's no way a card that size, that expensive, and that hot can work in a console. We'll probably get similar results to a 680 but won't have that much horsepower.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I think I was surprised when they said the original teaser was running at 60fps as even the Last Of Us Remastered dropped frames when there were a lot of enemies or effects onscreen. That was a last-gen game.

How would in be possible to run Uncharted 4 at 60fps with all the tech they showed off? Quiet honestly, I would be happy to see the original E3 teaser running in the final game at 30fps.

Remasters are not a testament to the system's potential.

If we used God Of war 1 and 2 remastered as a barometer for what the PS3 could do, that would have been wrong. That game had dips, too.
But GOW3 blew that game out of the water.

 

[Anarion07]

Like you said, I think we've already seen some spectacular shit with the likes of asscreed unity, ryse, and driveclub. We just need to stop with the cross gen bullshit.

Absolutely. And as you can see in Driveclub, even 30 FPS can look really smooth with the right motion blur.

Please stop. You're upsetting the cat.

My first avatar quote!

And yay I'm finally a member! Is there a way to see since when? Went totally unnoticed

 

[STEaMkb]

I'm getting Flashback vibes from that screen capture.

I'd also smile if the original cut sequence makes an appearance in the final game, even if ND is unable to hit their target of 60fps.

 

[viveks86]

Heh

I am annoyed by this mostly because I was frequently using Uncharted 4 in debates about 60fps and console abilities because ND is a studio that I hold in such high regard. I feel like an idiot for saying that.

No reason to feel like that. We all can only work with the info in front of us. Your conviction was based on what you saw. For all we know, ND would pull this off after a few months of optimization and you would look better than you do right now. Pitchforks should stay in our closets until there is closure on this topic one way or the other. It's not over yet

 

[RoboPlato]

It's cool dude. I liked the GTX 970 so much for its price performance and VRAM amount that I recommended it to 3 different builds, which people got.

Now I feel like a putz for being had.

IMO, no one will ever hate on you for thinking that. You ahve always been pretty realistic

I've said some dumb stuff in the past. I'm constantly learning in tech threads and presentations.

The 970 situation is something I would be super pissed about too. I hate feeling like something I bought isn't working properly and to it's full potential. It's a big reason that I stopped gaming on PC in the first place. I spend too much time tinkering to just enjoy a game due to my own compulsions.

 

[vesvci]

Spoiler

I grabbed that image from somewhere, I'm not the author, please don't shoot.

Some people have too much free time on their hands. Based on the captions on the image, it's a bit obvious someone is trying to push an agenda, making the image....irrelevant.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

LOL. Cool story bro. So Corinne and team worked without sleep on weekends to sell a handful of PS4s on the teaser for a game that wasn't coming out for more than 1.5 years?

I'm not agreeing with him, but I thought it was funny you mentioned the team working on weekends like that wasn't typical in game development...

 

[Dictator93]

I've said some dumb stuff in the past. I'm constantly learning in tech threads and presentations.

The 970 situation is something I would be super pissed about too. I hate feeling like something I bought isn't working properly and to it's full potential. It's a big reason that I stopped gaming on PC in the first place. I spend too much time tinkering to just enjoy a game due to my own compulsions.

LOL, that is like one of my favorite parts. I love tinkering in console or ini files.

Then again, I am pretty weird.

 

[The Artisan]

Absolutely. And as you can see in Driveclub, even 30 FPS can look really smooth with the right motion blur.

Absolutely yes but who knows how much better that 1080p game would've looked if they successfully implemented 1080p. They did target that at first, I think.

 

[Fredrik]

I don't get why ND do this. Yes, it builds hype at first. But it also makes the talk about the first real reveal be all about how much it has been downgraded instead of how cool the gameplay is or how great it actually looks - if they can't pull it off that is, we still don't know.
Also, although people have me on ignore for all my complaining about framerates I still think the Uncharted has been perfectly fine running at 30fps. So why start talking about and hyping it for running at 60fps if they can't pull it off?

 

[Neff]

That's a bizzarre theory. Some people buy ps4 for this trailer? O_O

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the first stunning look at Uncharted 4 during E3 pushed some who were on the fence about buying PS4 toward a purchase. If not, what did they show an impossibly ambitious trailer for?

 

[Anarion07]

Absolutely yes but who knows how much better that 1080p game would've looked if they successfully implemented 60 FPS. They did target that at first, I think.

FTFY.
But I'm pretty sure there would have been a great graphical tradeoff for that target.

 

[Duxxy3]

If 4 was just the same engine as UC3, but in 1080p, I'd be happy with that. I know the biggest different from last gen to this gen is primarily resolution. I can accept that.

 

[KingFire]

I don't get why ND do this. Yes, it builds hype at first. But it also makes the talk about the first real reveal be all about how much it has been downgraded instead of how cool the gameplay is or how great it actually looks - if they can't pull it off that is, we still don't know.
Also, although people have me on ignore for all my complaining about framerates I still think the Uncharted has been perfectly fine running at 30fps. So why start talking about and hyping it for running at 60fps if they can't pull it off?

They probably were very ambitious and believed that they could get this level of graphical fidelity in actual gameplay. They abandoned the goal when reality hit them, perhaps due to budget, time, or hardware constraints.

Perhaps this is why some companies like Rare are so secretive about what they do.

 

[viveks86]

I'm not agreeing with him, but I thought it was funny you mentioned the team working on weekends like that wasn't typical in game development...

How does saying one team worked on weekends imply that others don't? Let's not make strawman arguments. All I'm saying is that the core dev team worked hard to pull this off and were mighty proud of it. It can't be just so Sony can sell a handful of PS4s early based on a teaser alone and then backtrack later without consequence.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the first stunning look at Uncharted 4 during E3 pushed some who were on the fence about buying PS4 toward a purchase. If not, what did they show an impossibly ambitious trailer for?

Because they genuinely thought they could achieve it? You really think that is far more outlandish than your theory don't you?

 

[Mory Dunz]

I don't know man, the image below shows some pretty jarring differences, so it's not just about the framerate.

Spoiler

I grabbed that image from somewhere, I'm not the author, please don't shoot.

lol
I don't care about Uncharted or console wars (?) but this made me laugh. Probably the face in the corner.

 

[ship it]

Some people have too much free time on their hands. Based on the captions on the image, it's a bit obvious someone is trying to push an agenda, making the image....irrelevant.

or it was a joke and the agenda is in the eye of the beholder?

 

[Ricky_R]

I'm not agreeing with him, but I thought it was funny you mentioned the team working on weekends like that wasn't typical in game development...

I don't know how you came to that conclusion if you actually read what he replied to.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

or it was a joke and the agenda is in the eye of the beholder?

The Kaz face leads me to believe it was a joke.
If its not a joke its still funny.

 

[kmax]

If it's too good to be true, then it usually is. We all knew deep down that this wouldn't run as beautiful and as flawless as the teaser.

I don't know man, the image below shows some pretty jarring differences, so it's not just about the framerate.

Spoiler

I grabbed that image from somewhere, I'm not the author, please don't shoot.

 

[B-Ri]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the first stunning look at Uncharted 4 during E3 pushed some who were on the fence about buying PS4 toward a purchase. If not, what did they show an impossibly ambitious trailer for?

as a tech demo for the console, instead of shoving a CGI trailer up on the screen instead?

Can it be considered misleading? Sure! I think the wording is there that says it was a trailer running in an engine on the platform, not that it was gameplay footage.

 

[Neff]

Because they genuinely thought they could achieve it? You really think that is far more outlandish than your theory don't you?

I'm sure ND are very aware of what they can and can't do regarding hardware limitations. And I think (and many also realistically thought so at the time) that a 20 hour game which looked as good as the E3 demo would be a financial and technical impossibility. But who cares? It probably did its intended job.

And on that note, what else are Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo's E3 showings for if not to generate cumulative interest in their hardware?

 

[KKRT00]

I wouldn't say so compared to other games. Bare in mind it is rendering a ton of vegetation, and it is pretty common in most games for shimmering to be evident there. I would say it is looking to have great IQ and AA a year before release.

There's a tiny bit of shimmer, and the sharpeness to the image that's missing from just about everything else that doesn't introduce a lot more shimmer. Especially impressive that have somehow managed to spare the more distant tree tops from becoming the shimmery hell too. It really is the best looking overall solution I've seen, especially considering the type of scene treated which was just about the worst case scenario for PPA solution.

Its far from the best PPAA solution

WebMs are bigger so open in the new page, for even better comparison.

Ryse
http://a.pomf.se/owwgio.webm
http://a.pomf.se/vrbhfg.webm

Uncharted 4
http://a.pomf.se/tjecun.webm

And i recorded it in around 20fps [need to finally get a time to order a PC] and postAA like SMAA T1x scales with framerate, so it would even look better in 30 and the best in 60hz.

Ps. Ryse one is without motion blur, on Low so with low shading and LOD!

 

[Gestault]

May the record show I would be TOTALLY into an optional 60-ish mode with some lower-quality components (even as an unlockable mode), assuming 60 ends up being unrealistic.

 

[The Artisan]

FTFY.
But I'm pretty sure there would have been a great graphical tradeoff for that target.

thanks.

and see, that's the thing. knowing that these are new generation consoles you'd think that 60fps could be made possible alongside 1080p resolution, WITHOUT having to sacrifice graphics.

driveclub is a great game though. we'll just have to wait and see when the wizards (ND) put out their final product to see what the Ps4 is truly capable of.

 

[Ricky_R]

I'm sure ND are very aware of what they can and can't do regarding hardware limitations. And I think (and many also realistically thought so at the time) that a 20 hour game which looked as good as the E3 demo would be a financial and technical impossibility. But who cares? It probably did its intended job.

And on that note, what else are Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo's E3 showings for if not to generate cumulative interest in their hardware?

So you're saying that Sony/ND mislead people deliberately?