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Underperforming XBLA titles to be removed
- Thread starter jvm
- Start date
AlphaTwo00
Member
There was an XMas song pack?M3wThr33 said:
Damnit.
I bought the Expanded DLC pack.
Rhindle said:
The place for this sort of quality control is before a game gets released, not after. If Microsoft wants to create a "seal of quality" and force games to go through a Microsoft sponsored focus group, then so be it. It's their marketplace, and they can impose whatever sort of barrier to entry to put it there. But to fuck over developers who financed a game that Metacritic has pegged as "average reviews" and sells at 1/3rd the average conversion rate (18% in FY07)? It's cruel.
And, sorry, but "the average user is going to end up with bad experiences"? Do people not go shop at Gamestop because there's masses of shitty games on their shelves?
Yeah, I keep reading this. So how does everyone suggest they improve it? The games are in genre categories too already, and there's a new releases category, and they'll never add a search function for obvious reasons. The only thing that annoys me is the way games are listed when the games don't exist yet. For example 1942. It's listed in the XBLA game list, choose it and all you get is a trailer. Fucking stupid decision that.TheOneGuy said:
pswii60 said:
Well, let's look at Steam's navigation.
Four main tabs on the front page of the store: New Releases, Top Sellers, Top Rated, Coming Soon. All of these are doable, but last I checked XBLA only had one of the four.
Browse Games has a by-genre list. I think that's still needed, although Steam has a few genres I think XBLA doesn't have, like "Indie" and "Casual". That might be a useful way to highlight games to people.
There's a by-publisher list. That may or may not be useful, depending on how many publishers there currently are on XBLA.
The other neat thing Steam used to have (prior to the last revamp) was a by-price breakdown. So you could get a list of games that were, say, $1-10.
pswii60 said:
Well, here's what would be good for starters...
First off, there's so much wasted space on the top, left and right of the interface. Why not move the Xbox Live banner to the red top of the blade-like interface and allow for one more item per scroll? Also, why does the entire menu of options have to be on the very same page (scrolling left to right)?
This portion looks good, and very similar to what Sony did with their store (perhaps they were a bit inspired by the Marketplace?):
The Game List is very cluttered though:
The blades include a small picture thumbnail next to all the texts, yet it seems a bit useless compared to what was done in the PS Store redesign:
Here you can access 20 items at a time, scrolling left to right or up and down freely instead of the up-down interface of the Marketplace. The small thumbnails also show what content is being displayed (GAME, VIDEO, THEME, etc.) before highlighting for details.
I think Sony borrowed a bit from MS in designing the new Store, and MS needs to do the same whenever they decide to overhaul theirs. The firmware is ready to go, so we're not talking a total change here...just a few extra things to make it a bit more manageable.
You are describing an organizational/GUI issue. There are only ~130 games on XBLA. Break them down by genre it's not a very packed list. Microsoft has several tools to steer new customers to titles they want highlighted: XBLA Hits, "Recent Games", ad space. If they want new or certain titles bubbled up, they can do it. It's not like there are hundreds of games to sort through. If a consumer wants a racing game, they go look at a short list. Ditto puzzle, shooters, etc. If we were talking multiple hundreds of titles, maybe. But with only 1-2 games per week being released, there's no reason to gut titles from the system.Rhindle said:
None.
Agreed.Remy said:
Beer Monkey
Member
Given that this 'delisting' process still allows licensed owners to redownload the content in the future, there is no longer any cause for outrage.
I don't personally agree with them removing games, but it isn't any kind of violation of consumer rights.
I don't personally agree with them removing games, but it isn't any kind of violation of consumer rights.
Microsoft should introduce user reviews and ratings, top sellers, top rated by users (and critics perhaps looking at metacritics average) and so on that other downloadable distribition services and online retailers like amazon have had for years. Removing games might help a little bit, but only in very short distance and it doesn't solve the cause of the problem, just its temporary effect.
WickedLaharl
Member
glad that they finally came clear and said we'd still be able to d/l delisted titles. i can buy rearmed (even if there isn't really any chance it'll get delisted) with peace of mind.
now how about just redesigning the xbla store instead of going through with this nonsense?
oh and let us sort our download history. if iirc it's just a mess of shit right now
now how about just redesigning the xbla store instead of going through with this nonsense?
oh and let us sort our download history. if iirc it's just a mess of shit right now
ok, thanks for your contributionbeermonkey@tehbias said:
Not good enough. We're not talking about space on a shelf in a brick and mortar store.harSon said:
Then fix the actual problem - the user interface - or come right out and say that they don't want older titles that *should* be discounted stealing views from those bright and shiny 800pt titles.harSon said:
The Faceless Master
Member
unless you're someone who doesn't own the console yet and when you finally get the console, the game is no longer for sale.beermonkey@tehbias said:
CrapSandwich
former Navy SEAL
Yeah there's still a big problem with MS deleting creative works. Period. There's no excuse for it. The whole notion that these games are creating clutter is bullshit. The interface creates the clutter. Somehow, thousands of internet sites have figured out how to organize hundreds of thousands or millions pieces of content, but MS can't deal with 150? Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
The consumer should always be advocating their own position. In this case the intelligent consumer recognizes that an overbearing gatekeeper will always pursue their own interests before those of the consumer.
The consumer should always be advocating their own position. In this case the intelligent consumer recognizes that an overbearing gatekeeper will always pursue their own interests before those of the consumer.
The Faceless Master said:
yep. this whole 'you can still download if you deleted it!' thing isn't relevant to this issue at all. the fact remains that the game will be gone for new customers or other people possibly interested in it. and of course the basic principle that removing titles from the service is fucking retarded
pswii60 said:
Again, I think they should look at how YouTube does it...
What's the main source for getting videos from YouTube?
1) Links from friends. You can already do this on XBLA (recommend a game), but they need to make it far more easier and quicker to do.
2) Clicking on related videos, when watching a video. This REALLY needs to be implemented... just think about how you're looking at a game, or just bought one and played it, and then you can see 4-5 related games. You can also see their ratings and their download amount.
The key difference from YouTube is that XBLA is a marketplace, but the two above-mentioned implementations doesn't have to clutter the entry point. MS can use the frontpage howeever they like, profiling the right games etc. But if you want to find a certain game, let it be there, although it will be hard to find just by browsing the store interface. And that's why they should implement/improve on the two above-mentioned features...
You use your 360 in 4:3!?chubigans said:Well, here's what would be good for starters...
First off, there's so much wasted space on the top, left and right of the interface. Why not move the Xbox Live banner to the red top of the blade-like interface and allow for one more item per scroll? Also, why does the entire menu of options have to be on the very same page (scrolling left to right)?
This portion looks good, and very similar to what Sony did with their store (perhaps they were a bit inspired by the Marketplace?):
The Game List is very cluttered though:
The blades include a small picture thumbnail next to all the texts, yet it seems a bit useless compared to what was done in the PS Store redesign:
Here you can access 20 items at a time, scrolling left to right or up and down freely instead of the up-down interface of the Marketplace. The small thumbnails also show what content is being displayed (GAME, VIDEO, THEME, etc.) before highlighting for details.
I think Sony borrowed a bit from MS in designing the new Store, and MS needs to do the same whenever they decide to overhaul theirs. The firmware is ready to go, so we're not talking a total change here...just a few extra things to make it a bit more manageable.
http://majornelson.com/archive/2008/05/25/show-280-xna-drm-and-more.aspx
That's Major Nelson's show re: the delisting stuff for those interested.
That's Major Nelson's show re: the delisting stuff for those interested.
Macho Madness
Member
So, yeah... According to Nelson:
- Removed Titles to clean up XBLA, still on server. Can recommend them to friends (so new people can still download them). Referred to as the 'backroom' of XBLA.
- DRM Tool to launch in June. Took forever due to licensing. Caters to those who upgraded their console and repairs.
- Removed Titles to clean up XBLA, still on server. Can recommend them to friends (so new people can still download them). Referred to as the 'backroom' of XBLA.
- DRM Tool to launch in June. Took forever due to licensing. Caters to those who upgraded their console and repairs.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
"Can recommend them to friends (so new people can still download them). "
So does a friend that already own the game have to recommend it? It's still pretty inconvient but better than nothing I guess.
So does a friend that already own the game have to recommend it? It's still pretty inconvient but better than nothing I guess.
Macho Madness
Member
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
That's how the recommending system works.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
"That's how the recommending system works."
Calm yourself, I'm asking because just because I want a game that was taken off of xbla doesn't mean my friends wanted it or bought it but I guess you could just find someone to recommend you so you can buy it so not as bad as it was initially thought but still annoying.
Calm yourself, I'm asking because just because I want a game that was taken off of xbla doesn't mean my friends wanted it or bought it but I guess you could just find someone to recommend you so you can buy it so not as bad as it was initially thought but still annoying.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
"You have to know it exists."
And?
And?
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Why am I expecting this interview to end with
"We're just fucking with you! SURPRISE!"
"We're just fucking with you! SURPRISE!"
Love some of the hilarious stuff being thrown around.
1. "We found that most XBLA titles are being bought by people with a HDD" So what's the point of the Arcade SKU?! :lol
2. Arron Greenberg "You can just use your download history! Its' easy!" later on, E: "It's amazing how few people know about Download History!" Way to make it easier!
Argh!
1. "We found that most XBLA titles are being bought by people with a HDD" So what's the point of the Arcade SKU?! :lol
2. Arron Greenberg "You can just use your download history! Its' easy!" later on, E: "It's amazing how few people know about Download History!" Way to make it easier!
Argh!
wipeout364
Member
Why don't they just list games under the letter they start with? same as they do on most retail sites like best buy. Cleans up the clutter. They could do what sony does and have a choice for year of release as well.
bishoptl said:
It's their service. For all we know the 5.99% and under conversion rate could be the absolute minimum needed in sales for Microsoft to break even on hosting costs. We simply don't know, so to have an 'uproar' for old, badly reviewed, and horrid selling games is laughable at best. Also, Microsoft disclosing business secrets is a bit unrealistic considering no company is transparent (or blunt) enough to come out and say what you're asking :lol
ShockingAlberto
Member
Since the games are still staying on the service, just impossible to buy after being delisted, what the fuck is the point? Just transparent "punishment" as motivation for developers?
Another good, incredibly long article about Cleaning up the XBLA:
http://www.attackofthepowerbrick.com/2008/05/25/cleaning-up-xbla/
http://www.attackofthepowerbrick.com/2008/05/25/cleaning-up-xbla/
Beer Monkey
Member
Wow, I really struck a nerve with my comment, which I didn't intend to be incendiary. I just think that it is completely unacceptable (hence, worthy of 'outrage') to have a possibility for somebody to buy a game, have it become delisted the next day, and then due to a hard drive crash be unable of restoring they game that they bought. That is completely unacceptable, and to me, unfairly infringes upon consumer rights.
On the other hand, I don't think that it is required that all content on all services be made available indefinitely. I don't agree with their decision, but I don't view such an action to be nearly as heinous.
On the other hand, I don't think that it is required that all content on all services be made available indefinitely. I don't agree with their decision, but I don't view such an action to be nearly as heinous.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
"It's their service. For all we know the 5.99% and under conversion rate could be the absolute minimum needed in sales for Microsoft to break even on hosting costs. We simply don't know, so to have an 'uproar' for old, badly reviewed, and horrid selling games is laughable at best. Also, Microsoft disclosing business secrets is a bit unrealistic considering no company is transparent (or blunt) enough to come out and say what you're asking:lol "
Your explanation is still crap though. The game is still taking up space on the server it's just harder to find but still causing the same costs as before. Besides it's not like their putting up a new server everytime a new xbla game launches so the cost of keep it on the server is next to nothing. It's the idea that if it's going to take up space on the server and still able to be purchased why set up all these hoops for people to jump through when there is much easier alternatives? Besides just because mediacritic deems it unworthy doesn't mean others won't enjoy it considering a lot of the ones under possible delisting are remakes of older games.
Your explanation is still crap though. The game is still taking up space on the server it's just harder to find but still causing the same costs as before. Besides it's not like their putting up a new server everytime a new xbla game launches so the cost of keep it on the server is next to nothing. It's the idea that if it's going to take up space on the server and still able to be purchased why set up all these hoops for people to jump through when there is much easier alternatives? Besides just because mediacritic deems it unworthy doesn't mean others won't enjoy it considering a lot of the ones under possible delisting are remakes of older games.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Is the backlash strong enough for MS to listen?
It's a bit puzzling to me as well.ShockingAlberto said:
Greenberg's explanation for why they're delisting games ("it's like any retail store that has to clean out lower-performing products from its shelves!") is such a horseshit excuse because unlike retail stores, digital distribution possesses the advantage of maintaining a constant shelflife/availability for all of its products.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's not a cause for outrage until a game you're interested in but haven't bought gets delisted. Or until a hardworking dev has found he went through all that work to get a game published to XBLA for nothing.beermonkey@tehbias said:
I don't trust reviews that much, and I trust metareviews even less (the 10% Gamerankings review for Poker Smash gave it glowing praise and an award. WTF?). Any fan of under appreciated games knows how quality titles can be ignored in the marketplace. All these factors lead to the possibility of MS making a small but vocal group really angry, and I don't know if the risk is worth the reward here. You can always buy more bandwidth but you can't always buy back your good reputation.