Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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Jan 17, 2013
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Posted this in the PC Engine thread but thought it was relevant to this thread too.

I picked up a Core Grafx recently. I needed to get it modded for RGB as I can't stand composhit. It came with a Ten no Koe Bank 2 module so i decided to fit one of Broken's RGB amps to it. Also I used a 21Pin female SCART socket so could use standard SCART Cables with it.

Turned out quite well and the picture is amazing now in RGB. I just need to mod the shell to fit the socket and its done.

Some Pics



 
Aug 16, 2006
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Posted this in the PC Engine thread but thought it was relevant to this thread too.

I picked up a Core Grafx recently. I needed to get it modded for RGB as I can't stand composhit. It came with a Ten no Koe Bank 2 module so i decided to fit one of Broken's RGB amps to it. Also I used a 21Pin female SCART socket so could use standard SCART Cables with it.

Turned out quite well and the picture is amazing now in RGB. I just need to mod the shell to fit the socket and its done.

Some Pics



Nice. Do you have a tutorial for this? I want to mod my PCE.
 
Jan 17, 2013
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Aug 27, 2009
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Aug 16, 2006
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I followed this http://wiki.pcengine.info/pmwiki.php?n=Hardware.Tennokoe2RGB (its in french, just use google translate) although i had a rough idea how to mod it anyways. I just needed it for the EXT bus pinout.

Its not a hard mod to do. I used one of broken's RGB amps. He's on pcenginefx if you want to contact him.
Thanks. Would this work on the old white PCE as well?

dbElectronics is doing a db Grafx Booster TTP board too if you want to get RGB out without having to do the mod yourself: http://www.db-elec.com/home/News/dbgrafxboosterttptestedandfullyoperational

There's also the BoostMasta+ coming later by NeoTurfMasta with has 16 memory cards in one as well as RGB out! http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?254580-PCE-TG-Project-BoostMasta
Oh wow, that's a neat alternative. I'll keep my eye out for that too. Thanks.
 
Nov 29, 2010
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Posted this in the PC Engine thread but thought it was relevant to this thread too.

I picked up a Core Grafx recently. I needed to get it modded for RGB as I can't stand composhit. It came with a Ten no Koe Bank 2 module so i decided to fit one of Broken's RGB amps to it. Also I used a 21Pin female SCART socket so could use standard SCART Cables with it.

Turned out quite well and the picture is amazing now in RGB. I just need to mod the shell to fit the socket and its done.
Hey, I just got some of these in too!






NUS-CPU-04 NTSC Nintendo 64:






Super happy with the result of both. Absolutely no jailbars/banding with the Duo R too, which is awesome. Used to be especially noticable on my Core Grafx II with RGB in games with a blue background like Dragon Spirit and Twinbee but now they are crystal clear - even using composite video for sync on the Duo R. Using luma for sync on the N64 due to the revision of the motherboard.
 
Jul 26, 2013
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Hey, I just got some of these in too!






NUS-CPU-04 NTSC Nintendo 64:






Super happy with the result of both. Absolutely no jailbars/banding with the Duo R too, which is awesome. Used to be especially noticable on my Core Grafx II with RGB in games with a blue background like Dragon Spirit and Twinbee but now they are crystal clear - even using composite video for sync on the Duo R. Using luma for sync on the N64 due to the revision of the motherboard.
Dat PCE. God dayum
 
Mar 25, 2005
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downloads.khinsider.com
Speaking of elusive CRTs and geometry issues.... That vid demonstrates something I've been considering. Geometry issues REALLY irk me, and no CRT I've seen has it nailed. Even my friend's XM29 had pretty bad geometry. To think that a CRT I put on a pedastal would disappoint me once I saw it... I think I'm going to switch to Team XRGB soon.
The larger the tube the worse the geometry will usually be, Flat screen tubes are regarded to be better then curved tubes also.

A 4:3 21" Sony Wega CRT TV would probably have relatively good geometry
 
Jul 26, 2013
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It's just a shame so many N64 games have this horrible filter on them.
Horrible? I have to disagree with this though. N64 basically had free (All be it slightly inferior) Bilinear texture filtering and EdgeAA.

I always loved how smooth N64 games looked. As 3D rendering should.

The larger the tube the worse the geometry will usually be, Flat screen tubes are regarded to be better then curved tubes also.

A 4:3 21" Sony Wega CRT TV would probably have relatively good geometry
My 27" Phillips has a flat tube. but the geometry issues are pretty bad
 
Mar 25, 2005
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Horrible? I have to disagree with this though. N64 basically had free (All be it slightly inferior) Bilinear texture filtering and EdgeAA.

I always loved how smooth N64 games looked. As 3D rendering should.



My 27" Phillips has a flat tube. but the geometry issues are pretty bad

Yeah again large tube usually results in bad geometry you can usually get 3 out of the 4 corners more or less spot on but theres always 1 area where its not that great. Thats why PVM, BVM and JVC BC monitors usually have good geometry as there on a small 20" tube

Yeah, I love scanline retro screen shots! :)

 
Aug 20, 2006
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It makes them look like a horrible blurry mess via RGB.
Eye of the beholder, and dependant on game.

Some N64 games look amazing via RGB. Mario 64 looks and plays like heaven (especially if using a Hori mini pad!).

Banjo is an example of a game that looks fantastic but is approaching the 'was designed for smaller screens' continuum. But to me it's as much a 'too much detail for 3D in 240p' issue as a texture one. But at least there is Z-bufferring!

Obviously worse looking games are on display in all their hideous glory. Mario Kart 64 looks pretty bad. Any games with bad frame rates still have bad frame rates.

PS1 games by comparison have no AA or Z-bufferring of any sort and look chunky and wobbly via RGB. PS1 has worse frame rates on average than N64 in my experience. Certain games still look great as well of course.

TL:DR good looking games look even better, bad looking games look worse via RGB.
 
Jan 9, 2013
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Hong Kong
Recently put my RGB PC Engine thru Framemeister in 480p output mode, as opposed to 720p60i, and noticed how much smoother animation in general seemed. The walking animation in Rainbow Islands and Castlevania X in particular stood out, and it seemed games played "smoother" in general.

Now is this just me, or is there some kind of explanation for this? Or is there a setting I'm overseeing for 720p?
 
Apr 26, 2014
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I think that's the power cable/reflection.

The tv is $20 so I think it's a pretty good deal to go with the $8 genesis with 2 controllers i found.
I bought a set for $20 untested and it was the greatest $20 I've ever spent on gaming. Some things are worth the gamble.Weeks later, even now, I still feel really lucky to own it, and it makes me smile every time I turn it on to play a game.
 
Today I joined the PVM club:


My monitor is a Sony PVM-1270Q, which is only 12 inches, so it's not really idea. But, my brother knew a guy locally who did a lot of video work in the 80s that had a bunch of these screens so I bought one for $50.

The 1270Q just has composite, RGB, and Sony's CMPTR connection so for awhile I didn't know what to do with it. Then, I found a Genesis 1 in beautiful condition at a thrift store for $15 and I knew I needed to splurge on some RGB cables.

I bought Genesis 1->SCART and SCART to RGB cables and I am so impressed. This looks like an arcade monitor. I've never seen Genesis games look this good. I've been so used to the dot crawling and muddled colors on these games that I didn't realize the potential was there all of the time.
 
Sep 21, 2011
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The larger the tube the worse the geometry will usually be, Flat screen tubes are regarded to be better then curved tubes also.

A 4:3 21" Sony Wega CRT TV would probably have relatively good geometry
Welp, there's no way I'm gaming on 20" screens. No matter what angle I look at from, I'm starting to see the light of the XRGB.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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Today I joined the PVM club:


My monitor is a Sony PVM-1270Q, which is only 12 inches, so it's not really idea. But, my brother knew a guy locally who did a lot of video work in the 80s that had a bunch of these screens so I bought one for $50.

The 1270Q just has composite, RGB, and Sony's CMPTR connection so for awhile I didn't know what to do with it. Then, I found a Genesis 1 in beautiful condition at a thrift store for $15 and I knew I needed to splurge on some RGB cables.

I bought Genesis 1->SCART and SCART to RGB cables and I am so impressed. This looks like an arcade monitor. I've never seen Genesis games look this good. I've been so used to the dot crawling and muddled colors on these games that I didn't realize the potential was there all of the time.
it's so cute lol
 
Feb 23, 2013
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Might be bumping up to a 20" version of the Olympus monitor I have. It's in the price point that I am willing to spend and realistically, 20" would be a perfect size for me. Just gotta see if I want to or not.
 

ehnox

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Aug 28, 2014
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My monitor is a Sony PVM-1270Q, which is only 12 inches, so it's not really idea. But, my brother knew a guy locally who did a lot of video work in the 80s that had a bunch of these screens so I bought one for $50.

I liked this one, it has some sort of a portable look , 12" of raw picture quality is way better than 29" of RF or composhit.
 

ehnox

Neo Member
Aug 28, 2014
52
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0
Brazil
Today I joined the PVM club:

My monitor is a Sony PVM-1270Q, which is only 12 inches, so it's not really idea. But, my brother knew a guy locally who did a lot of video work in the 80s that had a bunch of these screens so I bought one for $50.

I liked this one, it has some sort of a portable look , 12" of raw picture quality is way better than 29" of RF or composhit.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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So I just got a sega genesis the other day and am looking for a crt. I saw this in my local craigslist, which is titled sony trinitron 27. I can't tell if its the image but it doesn't quite look 4:3. Anyone able to tell?

http://images.craigslist.org/00S0S_fCjASR0GCq2_600x450.jpg
That looks exactly like the 27" Trinitron I picked up for ~$10 locally. It is a fine CRT that has one component input. If you haven't seen it yourself, you should ask the seller to take a pic of the back to see its model and manufacture info for date as well as its inputs. The screen seems a bit wider than the normal 4:3 ratio, but it's fine and offers a manual (or depending on model, auto) 16:9 viewing mode. Mine is a manual setting.
 
Jan 30, 2011
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That looks exactly like the 27" Trinitron I picked up for ~$10 locally. It is a fine CRT that has one component input. If you haven't seen it yourself, you should ask the seller to take a pic of the back to see its model and manufacture info for date as well as its inputs. The screen seems a bit wider than the normal 4:3 ratio, but it's fine and offers a manual (or depending on model, auto) 16:9 viewing mode. Mine is a manual setting.
I think that's the same one. I picked it up today and it has 2 composite ports on the back, one component on the back and then a composite under the flap in the front. Got it a few hours ago and it looks pretty nice, although to be honest I wouldn't know what a good/bad crt would look like. I mainly wanted a flat screen crt, read that sony trinitrons are good and saw this on craiglist. The price/size was good for me so I went for it. Should work well for me as I start my retro collection. Currently just have the genesis and dreamcast.

Also do you have a preferred settings list for the tv? Tinkered around with the video settings a little bit and didn't realize how drastic it can change the look.

 
Sep 21, 2011
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That really depends on how you set yourself up. Sit close enough and it isn't so bad. A 20" 4:3 crt will have around the same vertical space as a 23-24" 16:9 computer monitor.
After, comfortably lounging in front of 46-50" plasmas for years... I'm now of the mind that there probably is no such thing as a screen that's too big. :p Even my PC is hooked up to one of them. I really would prefer 30"+ for a CRT, but geometry is unacceptable.
 
Apr 26, 2014
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Recently put my RGB PC Engine thru Framemeister in 480p output mode, as opposed to 720p60i, and noticed how much smoother animation in general seemed. The walking animation in Rainbow Islands and Castlevania X in particular stood out, and it seemed games played "smoother" in general.

Now is this just me, or is there some kind of explanation for this? Or is there a setting I'm overseeing for 720p?
I exclusively upscale 240p-native content on my Framemeister to 480p and let my HDTV's scaler handle the rest. It just appears to scale more nicely to my eyes than 720p and 1080p on the Framemeister. Scanlines look better too.

Edit: I think the OP of this thread should be updated where it says:

"SCART maxes out at 240p/480i, though, so if you're playing a game that runs at a resolution of 480p or greater, then component should be your choice."

IrishNinja, we now know that in certain setups (at least on the Dreamcast, PS3, and possibly others) that SCART can carry 480p as well. It may be worth mentioning in a footnote, even though the quoted language above is correct for 95% of consoles.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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Any thoughts about this? These guys are planning to launch a Kickstarter for their component cables this weekend.

SNES and Sega Genesis component cables, with electronics built in the cable itself. Looks pretty good, might be snagging up one.


http://www.hdretrovision.com/
Kinda superfluous for people with RGB -> YUV transcoders, but if they price it right, it could be a good alternative.
 
Sep 13, 2012
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Any thoughts about this? These guys are planning to launch a Kickstarter for their component cables this weekend.

SNES and Sega Genesis component cables, with electronics built in the cable itself. Looks pretty good, might be snagging up one.


http://www.hdretrovision.com/
Ugh. That project looks shady as fuck. Assuming that their component cables are really RGB cables with a built-in RGB to YUV transcoder, they have absolutely no business calling them "HD", and claiming that they will be good for using on an HDTV (it's still going to be laggy as fuck on most HDTVs).
 
Aug 16, 2006
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Ugh. That project looks shady as fuck. Assuming that their component cables are really RGB cables with a built-in RGB to YUV transcoder, they have absolutely no business calling them "HD", and claiming that they will be good for using on an HDTV (it's still going to be laggy as fuck on most HDTVs).
Lol, did you get salty w/ Sega for advertising the Genesis as having High Definition graphics too?
 
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