Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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May 12, 2009
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one of the resources i wanted to link was the XRGB wiki, which is great but honestly when last i checked, most sections for console specific settings were blank.

Here's an even more interesting example, I think.

(pitfall pics)
good choice for dithering, i hadn't covered that in the OP! while i appreciate your point, the tradeoff there for going back to composite seems unfavorable for me, but i do like knowing what's lost in translation.

You can run cartridges directly on an emulator if you want to. :p
what the...haha, learn something new every day!

I've had an XRGB2+ for the past couple of years, but it does have problems with certain systems.
My AES for instance suffers from screen tearing when hooked up through it. :-/
oh man that sucks, screen-tearing would drive me nuts! my Neo Geo X Gold when plugged into HDMI is only salvageable for me over the mini, for instance

Cool thread but I'm a CRT die-hard when it comes to old games.
this fuckin' guy...
i really do wanna meet up sometime and go flea market hunting with you, man!

If I get a chance later I'll send you my 480i/480p settings. They're almost perfect.
this would be very much appreciated, dark! as a matter of fact, any such settings you guys have, id be happy to make a section in the OP.
personally i can only mess with so many settings at the moment...my remote control died, so a little while back i sent it back to Solaris, who promised they'd replace it but shipping to/from japan is so slowwwwww
 
May 24, 2013
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Ah, the lure of the perfect picture... it's one of my greatest weaknesses. Ever sinse I'd first seen Super Nintendo emulated with perfect color and sharpness on an RGB monitor back in the late 90's, I've always wondered if it was possible to get anything close to that out of the original hardware.

My journey has been long, and I've tried almost every solution out there, with mixed results. Overall, I found the best options (XRGB included) required far too much tweaking to get just right. Being the textbook case of OCD that I am, this lead to less playing the games and more fucking with image settings. After days wasted just adjusting these settings, I realized the higher fidelity picture wasn't really worth it, as I wasn't really enjoying playing the games at that point.

The cheaper, more hassle free options, of course, never yielded an acceptable picture quality for my tastes. The latest one I've tried was an RGB Scart to component adapter, hooked into an older component video equipped CRT I lucked into when my sister replaced it with a new flatscreen. Now, this particular monitor wasn't a top brand (Phillips) and definately not an industrial RGB monitor, BUT playing Wii Virtual Console games on it through component video was a dream come true for me. The colors were vivid without being over saturated, the sharpness had absolutely zero ringing, and the color temperature was the perfect tone. All with the natural scanlines we know and love from CRTs.

I'd been researching SCART to component adapters for a while by this point, but it had also been a while sinse I had tried any new picture solutions: I was pretty satisfied with how Virtual Console games looked on my main LCD display. With this monitor in hand, I saw it as a perfect opportunity to try this out. $60 and 4 days later, I was hooking it up, excited to finally be able to play games like Yoshi's Island and Star Fox (games that are STILL unavailable on Virtual Console) with the the perfect color and sharpness I enjoyed through the Wii. Sadly, it was not to be. While the sharpness was indeed as perfect as can be, the adapter drastically altered the color temperature of the signal, which, in turn, made it impossible to get accurate colors from everything else. Being a fairly cheap Phillips TV monitor, there was little in the way of options too counter this.

So the take away from this is this: the XRGB is definately the best solution, but with the caveat of requiring a huge amount of effort in the adjustment process. So much so, it might actually affect your enjoyment of these games. In the end, I found that emulation is king for playing old games. Virtual Console looks perfect through my Wii U's HDMI connection, with absolutely zero effort required. For games I can't play on Virtual Console, I play through a HTPC with HDMI. I've given up on keeping the old hardware going, as sad as that is, but at least the games will never die.
 

Chacranajxy

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Oct 13, 2008
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haha - i was like "man watch half this shit be incorrect, dammit bocos" XD



this is a factor, yeah - ive noticed it more on games where the startup menu has a different res than the game itself, and it does take a few seconds to switch. ive mostly been doing 16-bit though, gonna hook my PS2 into it soon so ill try CC - did that game switch in-game, like with menus or something? because ill admit, that could get annoying
Chrono Cross switches whenever you go to the menu. For whatever reason, the menus are hi-res, and the rest of the game isn't. I had the same issue on my XRGB-3, but it's apparently exacerbated on the Mini.

I realize it's a small issue that's only going to affect a handful of games, but I really just want a solution that I can set and forget.
 

dark10x

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good choice for dithering, i hadn't covered that in the OP! while i appreciate your point, the tradeoff there for going back to composite seems unfavorable for me, but i do like knowing what's lost in translation.
Oh, I certainly agree. I definitely prefer RGB and, in most cases, these sorts of issues don't often crop up. The dithering is rather common on Sega Genesis, with its limited color palette, but other systems from that era manage to avoid such artifacts in most cases.

this would be very much appreciated, dark! as a matter of fact, any such settings you guys have, id be happy to make a section in the OP. personally i can only mess with so many settings at the moment...my remote control died, so a little while back i sent it back to Solaris, who promised they'd replace it but shipping to/from japan is so slowwwwww
So here's what I recommend for achieving a sharp picture.

For 480i and 480p content do the following;

Select manual scaling and use a value of 4 for Horizontal and 6 for Vertical scaling. For the cleanest results I recommend using 1080p output and engage the Smart x2 scaling option for perfectly clean pixels.

For 480p content use the "picture" video mode while 480i should use the "natural" option. This is particularly critical for 480i/p material as the Standard, Game, Anime, and Meister modes all employ a very strong low pass filter which absolutely destroys image detail. If you fire up something with pre-rendered backgrounds (such as Onimusha) you can see for yourself as all detail is smeared. So, again, "picture" for progress and "natural" for interlaced. Very important.

For 240p material the settings are similar except you want a horizontal value of 5 and 6 for vertical. For scaling use either x2 or Normal. If you use 1080p do not use scanlines as they are rendered improperly. 1080p does provide the cleanest image if you don't use them, though. If you use 720p mode, however, scanlines will look excellent.

(make sure you click for full size if on a lower resolution display as scaling ruins the scanline effect).




Here's a PS2 shot using those settings (well, using x1 instead of x2 in order to preserve 1:1 pixel ratio). Using x2 mode perfectly doubles the pixels producing very crisp results without any distortion.




I realize it's a small issue that's only going to affect a handful of games, but I really just want a solution that I can set and forget.
Yes, it's highly frustrating. Chrono Cross is one of the worst. Klonoa 2 also has this issue (the loading screens use some different video mode, for some reason).
 
Man I need the best I can find for cheap.

Right now I've got the VDIGI Wii Upscaler, it's alright.

But what I should find are ones that do pixel doubling, so I've heard, where it makes a 640x480 signal into 1280x960 but each pixels is 4pixels big and crisp. Only usable in 1080p obviously. :p Don't mind the boarders.

But I don't want to throw down hundreds on the thing. Aren't there TV's that do pixel doubling?
 
Jun 13, 2004
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So, NES/SNES/etc. stuff looks pretty solid on my plasma when I'm playing it on things like the Wii VC or other sources of emulation.

Looks more like the OP's pics on the right, rather than the blurry messes on the left.

Or is this thread about hooking up the actual original consoles and getting them to look good on current TVs?
 
Sep 3, 2006
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Not gonna lie; back in the 8/16 bit era I would have killed a man in front of his family for a monitor that eliminated all the blurriness of my old TV and showed me the pixels in its pure square pointy blocky glory.

So all the talk of scanlines and intended transparency tricks and how the developers targeted CRTs is heresy for me.
 

dark10x

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So, NES/SNES/etc. stuff looks pretty solid on my plasma when I'm playing it on things like the Wii VC or other sources of emulation.

Looks more like the OP's pics on the right, rather than the blurry messes on the left.

Or is this thread about hooking up the actual original consoles and getting them to look good on current TVs?
It is absolutely about hooking up actual original consoles to modern TVs. All of the pictures I've posted, for instance, are captured from real hardware rather than emulated shots.
 
Not gonna lie; back in the 8/16 bit era I would have killed a man in front of his family for a monitor that eliminated all the blurriness of my old TV and showed me the pixels in its pure square pointy blocky glory.
It is really all about your CRT...and the input. For the time around the turn of the century I exclusively was using a 27" Sony Wega for my systems. Was not a cheap TV at the time, either...something like $600. Looked great but would I still be using it now? Probably not...as it started suffering from geometry issues then color shift at the corners, then flat-out died one day. I would not trust (nor invest my time and effort) in a consumer CRT at this stage. Broadcast only. Even then, it is upscaling to HDTVs that I'm concntrating on as that is the way the technology is heading.
 
Jul 4, 2010
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Not gonna lie; back in the 8/16 bit era I would have killed a man in front of his family for a monitor that eliminated all the blurriness of my old TV and showed me the pixels in its pure square pointy blocky glory.

So all the talk of scanlines and intended transparency tricks and how the developers targeted CRTs is heresy for me.
There are some pictures of Final Fantasy VI that conclusively, crushingly, decisively confirm that scanlines, non-square pixels, a slight blur, and the NTSC color gamut are part of the way certain games are intended to look, but they unfortunately seem to have gone offline.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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So does this device upscale any 480i-480p output?

I have my N64,PS2,Retron 3, and Wii all running through a selector switch then out to TV.

Id like to upscale all of them but $300 is a little steep.
 
Jul 4, 2010
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Aha! Found the pictures.





Look at the bricks! Look at the curved shape of the column! It's a MASSIVE difference, and this stuff wouldn't be visible at all without the "flaws" of a CRT.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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There are some pictures of Final Fantasy VI that conclusively, crushingly, decisively confirm that scanlines, non-square pixels, a slight bur, and the NTSC color gamut are part of the way certain games are intended to look, but they unfortunately seem to have gone offline.
I wish I could have seen that. Sounds cool.

edit: lol, thanks
 
Mar 21, 2010
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Here's a more accurate comparison between composite and RGB.

This is a direct feed capture from an XRGB Mini. Off screen shots don't really illustrate the damaging effects composite video can have on the image. At the same time, it's fascinating to me how many visual elements in these older games appear as if they were designed for composite video. Take a look at the shading applied to the clouds, for instance. The composite shot appears to blend the colors more smoothly together to create a more cohesive image. The RGB shot reveals the stippling effect used to create shades the Genesis could not accomplish on its own.

There are many examples of this used in various retro games.

That said, the artifacts created by composite eliminate any real advantage and I find RGB preferable in all situations.

The RGB shot is nearly as crisp and clean as an emulator shot. You can still make out some very minor edge ringing which is the fault of the Genesis hardware but it's not particularly obvious while playing.
The waterfalls in Sonic games are another easy to see example of what you are talking about. Can even see it in the pictures the op has.

Chrono Cross switches whenever you go to the menu. For whatever reason, the menus are hi-res, and the rest of the game isn't. I had the same issue on my XRGB-3, but it's apparently exacerbated on the Mini.

I realize it's a small issue that's only going to affect a handful of games, but I really just want a solution that I can set and forget.
Sure glad people are mentioning this since I was thinking hard about picking up a XRGB-mini.
 
Jan 20, 2012
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I know I've considered it, but never felt like spending all that money. Might splurge on an XRGB when I finally get a condo, though (will probably stick with S-Video for a while and work my way up).

Hearing that the XRGB blacks out while changing resolutions is kind of worrying, though, because I can think of a ton of games that do that. Sonic 2's 2P mode, NiGHTS's and Burning Rangers's menu screens, Panzer Dragoon Zwei's menu screens, Symphony of the Night's menu screens, etc. It's not as limited as you're making it sound. :\

Also wondering if, for the PS2, SCART RGB or component is better.
 
Jul 8, 2004
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Aha! Found the pictures.





Look at the bricks! Look at the curved shape of the column! It's a MASSIVE difference, and this stuff wouldn't be visible at all without the "flaws" of a CRT.

Holy fucking christ. This is masterful. It's a real testament to the sheer skill of the artists that worked on these old games. Getting stuff to be displayed exactly as intended on a NTSC CRT requires insane mastery, and these guys nailed it!
 

Chacranajxy

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Oct 13, 2008
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I know I've considered it, but never felt like spending all that money. Might splurge on an XRGB when I finally get a condo, though (will probably stick with S-Video for a while and work my way up).

Hearing that the XRGB blacks out while changing resolutions is kind of worrying, though, because I can think of a ton of games that do that. Sonic 2's 2P mode, NiGHTS's and Burning Rangers's menu screens, Panzer Dragoon Zwei's menu screens, Symphony of the Night's menu screens, etc. It's not as limited as you're making it sound. :\

Also wondering if, for the PS2, SCART RGB or component is better.
I've heard that on the PS2, SCART gives you a less noisy signal than component does. In practice, however, I didn't notice any such difference. You also lose the ability to use 480p modes if you're using SCART instead of component... though I suppose the utility of that is limited with the PS2. But it does make games like King of Fighters XI look quite a bit cleaner (hilariously, only the JP version supports 480p.)
 
So here's what I recommend for achieving a sharp picture.

For 480i and 480p content do the following;

Select manual scaling and use a value of 4 for Horizontal and 6 for Vertical scaling. For the cleanest results I recommend using 1080p output and engage the Smart x2 scaling option for perfectly clean pixels.

For 480p content use the "picture" video mode while 480i should use the "natural" option. This is particularly critical for 480i/p material as the Standard, Game, Anime, and Meister modes all employ a very strong low pass filter which absolutely destroys image detail. If you fire up something with pre-rendered backgrounds (such as Onimusha) you can see for yourself as all detail is smeared. So, again, "picture" for progress and "natural" for interlaced. Very important.
Yeah,

Still not having any luck with PS2 and the Mini. Still looks like blurry garbage. I'm doing Gradius V which is a 480i game.

First, changed to 1080p on HDMI output. Then hit "natural:"




Then hit SmartX2:



Made sure scanlines were off. Now, do I leave auto-scaler On? Or if not, then do I turn it off and then manually do H Scale to 4 and V Scale to 6. Either way they both look like shit.



Also, I've got the PS2 hooked up via component with component chosen at the OS level.
 
Jun 11, 2012
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I recently picked up an XRGB Framemeister on the Buy/Sell thread from user Yakumo;

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71858861&postcount=13847

All brand new stock, the most competitive price I've seen at 39'800 yen which includes EMS shipping, and comes with the latest firmware and set to English. Sales post has pictures and a video link showing the unit in action. Dude comes highly recommended.


For new and current Framemeister users, here is a remote overly I found pretty useful.

English XRGB Framemeister Remote Overly
 
Oct 1, 2006
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Look at the bricks! Look at the curved shape of the column! It's a MASSIVE difference, and this stuff wouldn't be visible at all without the "flaws" of a CRT.
Yeah, that image completely convinced me that sometimes simulating flaws is a good thing. Note that that's not a CRT, it's a CRT shader.

Though they'll never convince me that simulating CRT curvature makes any sense, though for some reason most shaders have that option.
 
Jul 4, 2010
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Yeah, that image completely convinced me that sometimes simulating flaws is a good thing. Note that that's not a CRT, it's a CRT shader.

Though they'll never convince me that simulating CRT curvature makes any sense, though for some reason most shaders have that option.
Yeah, the screen border is the only element of CRT shape or housing that I'd consider emulating, just because of the way old games handled (or didn't handle) overscan. Curvature is just there for nostalgia reasons.

Also, here's a blog entry with more simulated CRT cheesecake that explains all the little things that make CRTs look the way they do.
 
Jan 20, 2013
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Does the XRGB, well my question is I only have a composite and hdmi inputs on my television. Does the XRGB have an output that goes to hdmi? So I would go from my for example, Saturn out -> XRGB in -> XRGB hdmi out -> HD television IN? Is there any product that does that. I have done other options that have been suggested to me in other threads, but it seems more like clutter and the picture quality is horrible with straight RF. I would rather have a receiver device upscale to my HD television. I don't have space for a CRT, but I would consider a good one.
 

Chacranajxy

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
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I recently picked up an XRGB Framemeister on the Buy/Sell thread from user Yakumo;

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71858861&postcount=13847

All brand new stock, the most competitive price I've seen at 39'800 yen which includes EMS shipping, and comes with the latest firmware and set to English. Sales post has pictures and a video link showing the unit in action. Dude comes highly recommended.


For new and current Framemeister users, here is a remote overly I found pretty useful.

English XRGB Framemeister Remote Overly
Oh, Yakumo's on here now? Guy runs Segagagadomain, which is most notable for the Retro Core show that he does. He's a cool dude. If I change my mind and get a mini, I'd probably buy it through him.
 
Oh, Yakumo's on here now? Guy runs Segagagadomain, which is most notable for the Retro Core show that he does. He's a cool dude. If I change my mind and get a mini, I'd probably buy it through him.
Also, they are 29,000 yen on amazon.co.jp. Even with proxy fees and EMS shipping you will only hit about $350. Still the cheapest way to snag one.
 

dark10x

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Yeah,

Still not having any luck with PS2 and the Mini. Still looks like blurry garbage. I'm doing Gradius V which is a 480i game.

First, changed to 1080p on HDMI output. Then hit "natural:"

Then hit SmartX2:

Made sure scanlines were off. Now, do I leave auto-scaler On? Or if not, then do I turn it off and then manually do H Scale to 4 and V Scale to 6. Either way they both look like shit.



Also, I've got the PS2 hooked up via component with component chosen at the OS level.
I'm curious about your photos. The options you are selecting clearly aren't taking effect there as the image is filling your screen. In x2 mode the image will not fill the screen. If your TV is not in 1:1 mode the scaling will look messy as well.

You definitely want to disable autoscaling.

With the correct settings this is exactly what you should be seeing on screen in x2 mode. I think it looks great when sitting back a ways. It's very crisp.

Make sure you click on the shots to blow them up to full size otherwise they will appear blurred as a result of GAF scaling.

 
I'm curious about your photos. The options you are selecting clearly aren't taking effect there as the image is filling your screen. In x2 mode the image will not fill the screen. If your TV is not in 1:1 mode the scaling will look messy as well.

You definitely want to disable autoscaling.

With the correct settings this is exactly what you should be seeing on screen in x2 mode. I think it looks great when sitting back a ways. It's very crisp.

Make sure you click on the shots to blow them up to full size otherwise they will appear blurred as a result of GAF scaling.
Okay, I'll work at it again tonight. When you say not filling the screen I'm guesing you mean minor window-boxing on all four sides...not the mini screen that was the scanx1?

Honestly, I've gotten the image to look like yours posted in the past. To me it still looks rather crummy but I'm not too familiar with the PS2 image. Maybe that is standard how it looked. I've a feeling my expectations are higher based on what I've seen from the Gamecube, DC, and XBOX.

My big problem with the PS2 image via the upscaler is that something like Espgaluda looks mind-blowing at 240p tate then like straight shit when it is Horiz 480.
 

dark10x

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Honestly, I've gotten the image to look like yours posted in the past. To me it still looks rather crummy but I'm not too familiar with the PS2 image. Maybe that is standard how it looked. I've a feeling my expectations are higher based on what I've seen from the Gamecube, DC, and XBOX.

My big problem with the PS2 image via the upscaler is that something like Espgaluda looks mind-blowing at 240p tate then like straight shit when it is Horiz 480.
That's just how it's going to look, I'm afraid.

Even on a real CRT 240p titles like Esp using the 480i mode look terrible. That's not just a problem with the scaler.

I think that looks great so I don't know what to say.
 

Chacranajxy

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
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Okay, I'll work at it again tonight. When you say not filling the screen I'm guesing you mean minor window-boxing on all four sides...not the mini screen that was the scanx1?

Honestly, I've gotten the image to look like yours posted in the past. To me it still looks rather crummy but I'm not too familiar with the PS2 image. Maybe that is standard how it looked. I've a feeling my expectations are higher based on what I've seen from the Gamecube, DC, and XBOX.

My big problem with the PS2 image via the upscaler is that something like Espgaluda looks mind-blowing at 240p tate then like straight shit when it is Horiz 480.
Frankly, the PS2 just doesn't have very good image quality. I dunno if switching to a SCART cable will clean up the signal for you (since, as I said earlier, some claim it gives you a cleaner picture than component), but it might help. That said, I do think it should look a bit cleaner than the shots you posted, so hopefully dicking with the settings can clear some of that up.

But yeah... the image quality, just in general, isn't up to what the GC, Dreamcast, and Xbox could pump out.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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Yeah,

Still not having any luck with PS2 and the Mini. Still looks like blurry garbage. I'm doing Gradius V which is a 480i game.

First, changed to 1080p on HDMI output. Then hit "natural:"




Then hit SmartX2:



Made sure scanlines were off. Now, do I leave auto-scaler On? Or if not, then do I turn it off and then manually do H Scale to 4 and V Scale to 6. Either way they both look like shit.



Also, I've got the PS2 hooked up via component with component chosen at the OS level.
If your wanting to use scanlines then best use 720p for now, as the scanline mode in 1080p isnt working correctly in the current FW
 
Jan 20, 2012
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Wouldn't 720p look like ass for a 480i/p game? It's not an integer scale factor (1.5x), so either some pixels would be larger than others, or you'd have a bilinear filter over the entire screen (a la playing DS games on a 3DS without 1:1 mode).
 
Frankly, the PS2 just doesn't have very good image quality. I dunno if switching to a SCART cable will clean up the signal for you (since, as I said earlier, some claim it gives you a cleaner picture than component), but it might help. That said, I do think it should look a bit cleaner than the shots you posted, so hopefully dicking with the settings can clear some of that up.

But yeah... the image quality, just in general, isn't up to what the GC, Dreamcast, and Xbox could pump out.
Okay, between what you and dark10x have said/shown I've definitley been doing it correctly. I'm guessing the PS2 is just not a system designed upscaling. System did look fantastic on a CRT back in the day, though.

PS2 is easlily my least played system simply because I was more into Gamecube and DC so I truly do not know the image and have something to compare the upcaled version to.

Definitely have been using it with 720p and scanlines in the past. Servicable if way blurry.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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Yeah, the screen border is the only element of CRT shape or housing that I'd consider emulating, just because of the way old games handled (or didn't handle) overscan. Curvature is just there for nostalgia reasons.

Also, here's a blog entry with more simulated CRT cheesecake that explains all the little things that make CRTs look the way they do.
NUeda, is doing fantastic work over at the shmups forum with HLSL settings in UME/MAME for authentic CRT look....





http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45026&start=141
 
Mar 25, 2005
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Wouldn't 720p look like ass for a 480i/p game? It's not an integer scale factor (1.5x), so either some pixels would be larger than others, or you'd have a bilinear filter over the entire screen (a la playing DS games on a 3DS without 1:1 mode).
1080p is only ill advised is your wanting the scanline overlay i believe.......or though i guess if using the PS2 then not many games were progressive so for an authentic look scanlines would be ideal??
 
Nov 30, 2009
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Stop it GAF! You're making me want to spent a lot of money on something I don't really need. Looking at the image of Street Fighter 2 Turbo above makes it almost worth while. (Don't tell my wife)
 

dark10x

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Okay, between what you and dark10x have said/shown I've definitley been doing it correctly. I'm guessing the PS2 is just not a system designed upscaling. System did look fantastic on a CRT back in the day, though.

PS2 is easlily my least played system simply because I was more into Gamecube and DC so I truly do not know the image and have something to compare the upcaled version to.

Definitely have been using it with 720p and scanlines in the past. Servicable if way blurry.
It depends on the game. Like this Tekken shot I posted earlier. Looks fantastic.

Again, though, you ARE seeing the small black borders around the image right (on top and bottom)? Your shots above don't show that.




MGS2 looks nice too.
 
It depends on the game. Like this Tekken shot I posted earlier. Looks fantastic.

Again, though, you ARE seeing the small black borders around the image right (on top and bottom)? Your shots above don't show that.




MGS2 looks nice too.
Yeah, I'm going to try to tweak it again tonight. Problem is that I only have a few PS2 games...Espgaluda, Taito Memories, Homura, Gradius V, Mega Man X collection.
 

dark10x

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Yeah, I'm going to try to tweak it again tonight. Problem is that I only have a few PS2 games...Espgaluda, Taito Memories, Homura, Gradius V, Mega Man X collection.
Ah, well, most of those don't look particularly good when upscaled. Games that scale 240p material to 480i look especially rotten.

At least the X Collection is 240p.
 
Oh yeah,

Btw, I''m very interested in the new SLG HD that is for component sources. I've a feeling it will be very valuable for PS1/PS2/Wii/XBOX/XBOX360 playback combined with the Mini. At least, with its simple on/off switch I'm planning on putting one in-line on my Mini's component in.

Kinda pricey though since Arcade Forge charges VAT and with the case and power supply and shipping it clocks in at about $85.

 
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