perfectchaos007
Member
What's sad is this won't effect waiters at all. My mom got $2 an hour+ tips waiting tables in the late 70's, and waiters today still get $2/hour + tips. That just means the standard tipping % will artificially increase.
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US lawmakers introduce bill to raise minimum wage, restaurant groups raise opposition
- Thread starter XiaNaphryz
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You don't think the minimum we should expect for people who are working should be... well... living?
I saw a half hour special on I think PBS a couple weeks ago that was pretty devastating and suggested otherwise. Or at least, the weeks when a waiter makes more than minimum wage don't make up for the weeks when they earn less. When you're living paycheck to paycheck that makes it a tad difficult to survive. Wish I knew what channel this was so I could link to it...
But you assume that minimum wage jobs are all temporary positions that people move up from after a while. Am I right in thinking this?
When corporations deny vertical movement, people are forced to stay at the bottom.
depends on the restaurant, location, local economy. etc. but mostly, servers get more than minimum wage.
Why would a teen working at mcdonalds, or a university student working over the summer need to earn enough to live?
I don't think adults that aren't young students should even be working those kinds of jobs in the first place.
You're absolutely right, that's the way things should be. And since they aren't that way, I think that government has bigger things to fix than just raising the minimum wage.
No it won't. The companies that largely employ people at the minimum are huge conglomerates like Wal-Mart. Small businesses are effectively subsidizing the big businesses to kick them in the groin, since they pay into the system that pays for the difference in livable wage and not (Wal-Mart employees use government healthcare and receive food stamps more than other jobs).
Small businesses tend to pay a bit more than the large ones.
Well then you're not living in reality. There's a limited amount of high paying jobs, as well as momentary costs usually associated with getting them. Not everyone will be able to achieve them, or even given the opportunity to.
ManDudeChild
Member
Wow two pages in and the thread hasn't devolved into a back and forth tipping thread. Well done!
I of course don't believe in tipping for the purposes of this post. Want more money? Get a better job. There's more out there than just restaurant work that a person with little to no meat on their resume can do.
I of course don't believe in tipping for the purposes of this post. Want more money? Get a better job. There's more out there than just restaurant work that a person with little to no meat on their resume can do.
perfectchaos007
Member
Maybe to pay off their $25,000/yr tuition. ( another problem this country needs to fix )
So you don't think it can have any negative consequences at all? Not even an increase in the price of goods and services? Although to be fair that's probably going to happen regardless but it could make it worse.
Why is that sad? That's the free market. If she was worth more, she'd get more.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
why would you raise the minimum wage if there wasn't inflation?
that's the level of value her services provide. if she thinks she deserves more, she should find someone willing to pay her more
In an economy where it's tough to find any job at all, I don't think what you think matters.
The government can't fix big problems when half of it is fighting against itself.
Damn.
IdreamofHIME
Member
They already do go up, this at least gives those at the bottom a fairer roll of the dice rather than leaving them standing.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353031.htm
On average you'd be hard pressed to find a job with the same low entry requirements that pays similarly.
There will be a slight increase in the price of some goods, sure, but the increase in demand from the bottom rungs of the economic ladder would help the economy far more than the increase would hurt it. If you increase wages on those making minimum wage, they will spend it. It doesn't just sit there. They have to spend it. That leads to more demand and more jobs.
perfectchaos007
Member
In a thriving economy, someone being well underpaid at a job can easily say "bye, I'm going elsewhere", and the manager would either say "okay bye" or "wait, would you stay if I increased your salary?"
Now, employers have all the leverage. employees feel fortunate just to have a job, and employers know this and can take advantage of this. "You want to leave? Okay, I have 30 applications I have in my office to replace you. Good luck finding another job out there."
Ah. So you only like the free market when the economy is doing amazing and it's a little harder for corporations to fuck you over.
A hike in minimum wage could hurt a lot of small businesses which are barely surviving at the moment.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Maybe they opened the wrong business. "Free market!"
perfectchaos007
Member
Is my avatar influencing your tone?
Why? Personally i'm a fan of saving my money when I can. Hell maybe when I make enough of it i'll invest some of it in bitcoins or something so that the value of my money doesn't go down with inflation.
You know who this hurts more? Big businesses. The thing is that big business through sheer size are able to price goods lower and often pay their employees much less. This less pay is subsidized through state and federal government programs. Small businesses are right now subsidizing the big ones that are hurting them. Small businesses tend to pay a bit more in order to attract better talent and because they need people more dedicated to their jobs. By increasing minimum wage you put small businesses on a bit more of a level playing field with the larger ones.
Your obsession with inflation proves you're clearly a crazy person and well outside the norm of someone who would be making minimum wage. I don't think you're a good case study on these sorts of things.
But seriously, why are you asking this? You're asking why people who have nothing would spend their money when they get it? Do I need to remind you the usual net worth of someone on the bottom rungs of the ladder here?
Of course. I don't mean to be too rude in tone, but a Ron Paul fan complaining about this stuff is sort of hilarious.
If they can't pay their employees a decent wage, their business doesn't deserve to survive.
If they hadn't opened those businesses a lot of the works that these businesses employ may have never found work.
So the employees who work for these businesses won't have jobs? And therefore no pay anymore...
You think only teenagers should be bartenders and gaming dealers? Only kids should be farm workers and labourers? That's going to be one fucked up economy you've got.
People get paid more. Means people can buy more goods/services, which means these businesses will get more money to afford these hikes, unless that business wasn't really in demand in the first place.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Someone seriously said that bitcoins is good way to save money? Jesus.
Because that's how GDP grows. I like saving money too, but there's no denying that increases in disposable income usually leads to greater consumption in the macroeconomy.
Yes. Thankfully you give small business owners very little credit. They're not mostly made up of shitty businessmen/women or morons in the wrong market who can't even pay their employees.
Is that what happened in the states that raised minimum wage recently?
Lamel
Banned
Since I have started working at my first real hourly wage job, I have come to realize that minimum wage is way too low. During winter break from college I worked 25 hours a week for $8 and made squat (I wasn't supporting myself with it); no way are people surviving off $7.25 an hour. That is paycheck to paycheck living.
Sure but i'm just saying that not every single person is gonna spend the exact same way. In fact during a recession I can argue it's a very good idea to save your money.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
You do realizes that people who live on minimum wage can't save money at all because they just don't make enough. This gives a push towards wages being what they should be not what they are.
We're in a thread here talking about how these people cannot live on minimum wage. Do you know what that means? It means that they likely have bills they can't pay. They have checks bouncing. They're skimping on food that their children might need. And you think these sorts of people that can barely live when they get a small raise in salary are going to by and large shove it under their mattress and watch the value of bitcoins or something equally asinine?
Seriously, what world do you live in?
Well you can use this same logic to support tax cuts for Americans (and not just the rich otherwise that's just stupid and counterproductive).
I mean look. At the very least i'm open to see what happens. I'm just worried that in the end it ends up doing more harm than good.
Restaurant positions make up 7 of the bottom 10 lowest paid wages.
Restaurant workers go on food stamps at twice the rate of the national average.
Because they get paid so low, workers can't afford to get sick as there is no sick leave, and they cook and prepare your food whilst infected.
What are we even talking about? Raise the damn wage.
Restaurant workers go on food stamps at twice the rate of the national average.
Because they get paid so low, workers can't afford to get sick as there is no sick leave, and they cook and prepare your food whilst infected.
What are we even talking about? Raise the damn wage.
I absolutely agree.
If people can't find better, higher paying jobs while they're flipping burgers, oh well. Maybe they should get a couple more minimum wage jobs if they're gonna whine all day about not affording healthcare, and being unable to pay the bills and whatever else poor people whine about.
Oh you're a single mother who can't see her child often because you're working a couple of jobs? Not my problem lady, should have worked harder for that higher paying gig.
RustyNails
Member
What is this
The people you're talking to (liberals) do also support tax cuts for the poor and middle class, especially the payroll tax.
I do support tax cuts for people living on minimum wage.
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