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Usage Based Billing approved, Canadian govt shoots it down, more developments to come

That`s another thing...what shitty connections? and what backfired in our faces?? I`ve been with Bell on DSL for close to 10 years now and I think my internet was down twice,for about 8 hours total,in all that time...and when do the phones stop working...never...some people just like to hate on big companies for some reason.
 
Ricker said:
That`s another thing...what shitty connections? and what backfired in our faces?? I`ve been with Bell on DSL for close to 10 years now and I think my internet was down twice,for about 8 hours total,in all that time...and when do the phones stop working...never...some people just like to hate on big companies for some reason.
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The speeds are only pathetic in comparison to the more populated areas of the US, most of europe, all of asia etc. They throttle both legitimate and illegitimate data... Yeah, I'd call that "shitty"
 
ITT closet UBB defense force members are rallying.

There are no positives to this whole situation. Stop trying to spin it.

See you guys in Starbucks when its time to download games on Steam / World of Warcraft patches.
 
The fuck? Full disclosure please, do you work for a telco? Serious question because you seem to be okay with service that would be good 15 years ago.

Bell's ideal customer right there.
 
Ricker said:
That`s another thing...what shitty connections? and what backfired in our faces?? I`ve been with Bell on DSL for close to 10 years now and I think my internet was down twice,for about 8 hours total,in all that time...and when do the phones stop working...never...some people just like to hate on big companies for some reason.
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I had Bell installed on the weekend and it is down in my area today.

Anecdotal evidence ftw

Quite insane that anyone could be behind a decision that has absolutely no benefit to the consumer
 
From reddit:

Everytime you want to check how much bandwidth you've used, call your ISP and ask them, when they tell you to do it online: tell them that you don't want to waste the bandwidth to check your bandwidth.
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Not a bad idea.
 
Then when they say it doesn't cost (appropriate word here) you bandwidth to check your bandwidth, you ask why. They say it's because it's Bell. You ask how that works for Bell and not other services. You say that's a bit arbitrary isn't it? Another conversation about video services ensues.
 
DopeyFish said:
Canadians paid for bells infrastructure - in the hopes of expanding and making canadas network a world leader - it backfired in our faces and the only right thing to do is remove ownership of the infrastructure - make it canadas and force them to pay us - allow companies like teksavvy an equal to Rogers and bell

If the companies protest, then break them apart into smaller companies

The monopolies or oligopolies in this country need to die
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While your taste in Hockey teams is horrific, I agree 100% with this post

:)
 
DopeyFish said:
Canadians paid for bells infrastructure - in the hopes of expanding and making canadas network a world leader - it backfired in our faces and the only right thing to do is remove ownership of the infrastructure - make it canadas and force them to pay us - allow companies like teksavvy an equal to Rogers and bell
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I wish somebody would write a story that focused on this. The few mentions I've seen of this fiasco don't even touch on the fact that we helped pay for Bell's infrastructure. I'd imagine there would be more outrage if people know.
 
dream said:
I wish somebody would write a story that focused on this. The few mentions I've seen of this fiasco don't even touch on the fact that we helped pay for Bell's infrastructure. I'd imagine there would be more outrage if people know.
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I don't get why Primus, Teksavvy and the rest that are being screwed by this do not start a joint publicity campaign to make sure everyone is aware of these facts
 
Dunlop said:
I don't get why Primus, Teksavvy and the rest that are being screwed by this do not start a joint publicity campaign to make sure everyone is aware of these facts
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Where are they going to have their campaign? On tv? Because Bell and Rogers are the tv providers and they're not going to want that shit on their stations. In newspapers? I think these companies are pretty tightly aligned with them too due to the amount of advertising dollars Bell and Rogers provide for the publications.



Internet should just be a public service like water.
 
Ricker said:
That`s another thing...what shitty connections? and what backfired in our faces?? I`ve been with Bell on DSL for close to 10 years now and I think my internet was down twice,for about 8 hours total,in all that time...and when do the phones stop working...never...some people just like to hate on big companies for some reason.
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I've had Bell cable go down four times in the last two months alone.
 
Nothing like taking it in the ass and not being able to do anything about it. There's no alternative company. The CRTC is a joke. Unless this becomes a real political issue I don't see much promise.
 
big_z said:
Shaw isn't billing people yet and you get three strikes before they charge you. I will be using those strikes... Hopefully by then this shit gets canned. I'm in the Edmonton area and their monitoring system is still inaccurate... Its also down most of the time.

I was contemplating switching to telus without a plan but they recently made it clear that they plan to start UBB soon as well.

There is no where to run with UBB. Either canadians sack up and fight back or get fucked over. Since we get fucked over so often in not that hopeful. :(
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Where did you hear that Telus is going to start UBB soon? I just read in an article that the bill doesn't affect Telus, but they are still 'considering' it.
 
NhNUo.jpg

Is this real? If so, it's absolutely disgusting and a prime example of why net neutrality is an important cause to fight for. This looks like a capitalist version of China's great firewall.
 
Nos_G said:
ITT closet UBB defense force members are rallying.

There are no positives to this whole situation. Stop trying to spin it.

See you guys in Starbucks when its time to download games on Steam / World of Warcraft patches.
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Thing is, I don't mind paying for what I use.

But when your mark up is as much as 90 cents per gig, that's when I have a problem.
 
M3d10n said:
http://i.imgur.com/NhNUo.jpg[IMG]
Is this real? If so, it's absolutely disgusting and a prime example of why net neutrality is an important cause to fight for. This looks like a capitalist version of China's great firewall.[/QUOTE]
No, it is not real. Though it might as well be, the way this is going.
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I live in Toronto and I am absolutely disgusted with this news. How many times do we get fucked over and we sit back and take it like little bitches? Why can't this country have some balls to stand up and revolt like they do in Europe? I've been with Tek Savvy for years now and I just got off the phone with them. The (potential) good news is that they are expanding their wireless and fios services and hopefully they will become widely available. If that happens, Bell and Rogers can suck out nutsacks because we won't have to deal with their monopolistic bullshit ever again.
 
Sent an email to Harper, Clement, and my local MP. I've sent dozens of these over the past year and usually Clement and my MP get back to me. Harper never gives enough of a shit to even send out a standardized mass email. Fucker.
 
This is really unclear to me. I have been under a bandwidth cap with Rogers for quite a few months now. I use the Extreme+ to get 125GB with 25 down, 1 up. Is this somehow going to affect me? I can't imagine using anything close to 25GB a month and would not pay anywhere near the price I am paying now for that level of service.
 
Seems like only the NDP MPs are responding openly against the issue and with non-canned responses. I don't know how many average people on the street actually know about this or are against it (I guess if you know, you're likely going to be against it by default) since we're in a bit of a bubble here on an online forum. I think George Strombo is doing something about this on his show tonight (11pm EST?). Maybe only a small thing, not sure. He tweeted that they're working on something.

I would like to hear from Michael Geist on the issue. See if he pops up anywhere in the near future.
 
YYZ said:
Seems like only the NDP MPs are responding openly against the issue and with non-canned responses. I don't know how many average people on the street actually know about this or are against it (I guess if you know, you're likely going to be against it by default) since we're in a bit of a bubble here on an online forum. I think George Strombo is doing something about this on his show tonight (11pm EST?). Maybe only a small thing, not sure. He tweeted that they're working on something.
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I messaged a few editors from blogs and newscast around to try and touch on this a bit more, but few seem interested in it. In my opinion, this should be the front news story on every paper until it's resolved.
 
TAS said:
I live in Toronto and I am absolutely disgusted with this news. How many times do we get fucked over and we sit back and take it like little bitches? Why can't this country have some balls to stand up and revolt like they do in Europe? I've been with Tek Savvy for years now and I just got off the phone with them. The (potential) good news is that they are expanding their wireless and fios services and hopefully they will become widely available. If that happens, Bell and Rogers can suck out nutsacks because we won't have to deal with their monopolistic bullshit ever again.
Click to expand...

I hope TekSavvy does expand those services. They've been nothing but awesome to me.
 
How does this benefit the government? I don't get it? I don't understand how having a few companies in control of an infrastructure is beneficial to anyone in the government. Why do Bell and Rogers get beneficial treatment when they've benefitted from tax dollars? At least Bell has.

TAS said:
I've been with Tek Savvy for years now and I just got off the phone with them. The (potential) good news is that they are expanding their wireless and fios services and hopefully they will become widely available. If that happens, Bell and Rogers can suck out nutsacks because we won't have to deal with their monopolistic bullshit ever again.
Click to expand...
Can someone expand on this wireless and Fios service that teksavvy is doing? I haven't heard anything about it.
 
YYZ said:
How does this benefit the government? I don't get it? I don't understand how having a few companies in control of an infrastructure is beneficial to anyone in the government. Why do Bell and Rogers get beneficial treatment when they've benefitted from tax dollars? At least Bell has.
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Cuz the CRTC has too many sellouts who get cushy telecom jobs after leaving, and not enough people like this guy.

Falagard said:
Here's my version which works a little better for snail mail. Credit for the original goes to mugwhump:

-------

Dear Mr. So and So,

Yesterday, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission made a bafflingly anti-competitive decision that will set Canada's internet back by a decade. I am speaking, of course, of the decision to allow Bell to charge wholesale ISPs on a Usage-Based Billing (UBB) model.

There are many smaller Internet Service Providers that will be crippled by this decision. These ISPs depend on Bell's infrastructure. This infrastructure was paid for in part by our tax dollars in exchange for which Bell is required to lease their lines to other providers. Apparently Bell didn't feel like competing, and decided to lobby their buddies in the CRTC instead. Under UBB, Bell will be able to charge these ISPs for every GB its users go over a set monthly cap, making it impossible for them to offer the unlimited plans that set them apart. TekSavvy is one of these ISPs, and in the words of TekSavvy's president, the CRTC decision will result in "essentially handcuffing the entire competitive market." (Google search: CRTC ruling handcuffs competitive market)

Furthermore, the cap Bell wants to implement is 25 GB per month, charging $1 per GB after that, and Rogers will be following the same path right behind them. You may initially think that 25 GB per month is enough, but that means under 1 GB per day. Most people use the Internet now for much more than checking their email. People share videos on YouTube or Facebook, video or audio conferencing using Skype, buy video games online, pay for movie rentals through one of the movie services such as Netflix or iTunes, and purchase songs, movies or audio books online just to name a few. Streaming an average 1.5 hour movie on Netflix takes around 3 GBs of data, so you can see that 25 GBs would be eaten up rather quickly for someone using this service, not to mention everything else. Each of these everyday uses of the Internet will easily see users go over the 25 GB per month limit.

Bandwidth costs the big service providers (Bell, Rogers, Telus, etc) less than a penny per GB. They complain that rising internet traffic congests their networks and forces them to use UBB. Their own data (Google search: The Bell Disclosure) reveals this as a blatant lie, and their congestion rates never enter the double-digit percentages even during peak hours, even while they under-deliver on promised speeds (Google search: Bell and Rogers square off).

Not only is 25 GB per month archaic and far behind the rest of the developed world, it's blatantly anti-competitive! For example, just days after Netflix announced its service to Canada, Rogers announced they were implementing bandwidth caps, which would make it hard to stream movies. Was Roger's own video-on-demand service affected? No. Bell's own streaming services will also not use up your 25 GB per month. Like most of the other Telecom giants, Rogers and Bell have obtained vertical monopolies by gobbling up content providers and media companies. Unless the Conservative government embraces Net Neutrality, Rogers and Bell will continue to throttle competitors (and innovation) to make you use THEIR services.

Internet in BC is slower and more expensive than in Mexico! In 2009, the percentage of Canadians using the internet actually dropped 10% (Google search: Canada Internet usage). The only explanation for the preferential treatment the Telecartel continues to receive is a disheartening one: complete regulatory capture.

The temporary monopolies we offered these companies to create infrastructure have long since served their purpose, and are now actively retarding the development of Canadian web services. I am a software developer who tries to innovate by providing new Internet based products and services to Canadians, but decisions like this are stifling my ability to provide these services. Now I have to consider whether potential customers will be worried about their bandwidth bill and therefore decide not to download the software I create, or use the web services I provide.

This issue is a huge deal breaker for me; whatever party takes the firmest stance here will receive my vote in the next election.

Sincerely,
Me
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Hey, that's some nice editing! Now I'm not sure if I should send my version, or write the snailmail version lol. I think you should leave in the part about the CRTC effectively defrauding taxpayers for >$1,000,000,000 though (Google search: mediascam).

If anyone else writes their MP, consider posting the template here for others to use, it might make things easier. :D
 
Duran said:
Where did you hear that Telus is going to start UBB soon? I just read in an article that the bill doesn't affect Telus, but they are still 'considering' it.
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That article came out when word of shaw charging customers first hit the news. Telus has since gone back on that and said they plan to join the UBB club. They've mentioned it in the news a few times now. Search around on dslreports and you can find the info. Or you can call them and ask yourself. They aren't charging yet but will be shortly.


Btw for you guys writing letters you shouldn't focus on just one company like bell. UBB shouldn't be allowed by any ISP.
 
Is this the one time I get to brag about living in Saskatchewan? I am going to take it

My old service provider was access communications. With them I paid $40/month for 600kb/sec dl and 100kb/sec ul and there was no firm bandwidth cap. There was a points system where you were throttled for going over, but it was pretty generous (~100gb iirc), and you never paid for going over.

I currently have Sasktel as my ISP and we pay $50/month for unlimited bandwidth with a 10mbps connection. For the first three months it was $10/month. For $85/month you can get a 25mbps connection with unlimited bandwidth.

I don't think I am affected by this CRTC ruling as a Saskatchewan resident. Still, I feel for you guys who are going to have 25gb limits with no significantly better alternative.
 
Ricker said:
Some people don`t seem to understand a few things though...when you say fuck Bell and go with tecksavvy or whatever,you guys do realise that they use what Bell took 100 years to build and so on right...why would Bell just let tecksavvy use their infrastructure,from the freaking land pole and CO`s and wired stuff that took years to build and make money with it for almost nothing...
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Nothing happens in Canada without government money. Random example:

http://media.knet.ca/node/10851

Bell is spending $81 million to run fiber op to Native communities in Northern Ontario.

$32 million is coming from the Province
$26 million is coming from Bell
$23 million is coming from the Feds

Bell gets to own the lines and charge natives $50 a month for something that costs $0.50 a month to maintain, but they still have to occasionally take orders from the CRTC and the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, because Bell doesn't own the land the cable runs on.

If they want to be jerks about things, someone like Teksavvy would be happy to come in and offer lower prices, provide better customer service, perform superior maintenance and upgrades, and give Bell millions and millions of dollars to sit on their hands.
 
The only solution out of this mess would be for the Canada to own those infrastructure like some previous posters said. EVEN IF THIS WOULD MEAN BUYING THEM BROM BELL AND CO.
 
Ranger X said:
The only solution out of this mess would be for the Canada to own those infrastructure like some previous posters said. EVEN IF THIS WOULD MEAN BUYING THEM BROM BELL AND CO.
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If the majority of money is tax money going into these, don't we own them?
 
EvilMario said:
If the majority of money is tax money going into these, don't we own them?
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No. We pay for them, but we don't own them. Bell does. (it is screwed up) Even if we did own them though, I'm not sure it would change anything. It's not like the CRTC is any good at protecting the consumer...
 
EvilMario said:
If the majority of money is tax money going into these, don't we own them?
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In a country where the telecoms aren't regulated by former telecom CEO's, yes. In Canada, no.
 
It costs more to send a heavy package across the country than a letter across town. People who use more electricity than their neighbours have to pay for their additional energy consumption. Drivers who travel long distances spend more on fuel than those who don't. Transit riders crossing zones pay more than those going one or two stops. The principle is simple: The more you use, the more you pay.
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See, here's the thing... you're already paying for a broadband connection. Paying overages for something you've already payed for is robbery, plain and simple, especially when those overages are a 20,000% markup.
 
Ricker said:
Also I don`t think this means that all bandwith caps now will be 25 GB amonth,that`s absolutly ridiculous...yes you will pay for more but not at 1 extra GB a month...for instance,Videotron,which is cable and Telus and Rodgers and Bell`s big competition in the Province of Quebec have a plan of up to 250 GB a month,upload and download combined but it costs about 70 bucks a month...these plans will stay i`m pretty sure...
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NJqcW.png
 
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