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[Grief.exe]

You might have missed the part about why it wasn't a big deal (except to display to me why not to use Steam) on the fact that I got the game for free.

So they weren't able to look it up for me (and they just told me they needed a credit card). I did actually bother to talk to Valve's CS, they just couldn't do anything for me.

And since they lost my account, how am I to trust they didn't lose my CC info too. Though I have no idea if I gave them one, I assume not since it was free but then i know some companies still require you to keep a CC with them even if you are buying free stuff *cough* apple *cough*. I think I did give CS the one I would have used if i needed to give one but wasn't surprised when they didn't find it (either they lost it or I didn't give it to get the game, I assume the latter unless they require a CC).

This structure is very confusing. I've read this three times and it is not making much sense to me. Perfectly acceptable if English isn't your first language, especially considering the difficulty of the inherit difficulty in the language. I am not chastising you in any way merely remarking that I am having difficulty understanding your statement.

I think I have it down in a general sense, but not really. Seems you acquired a game for free, lost access to your account, and didn't have a credit card associated with said account so Valve could trace the log in. Valve does not require you to attach anything to your account by the way.

 

[Armaros]

Bungie would like a word with you They pioneered building a fan community years before Valve.



Pretty much. I frankly don't enjoy most of Valve's games (HL2 is to me the most overrated game of all time) but to call them a "hero" is hyperbole. It's a company. They will screw you eventually.

Bungie hasn't let fans make a comfortable living off of making fan based stuff.

 

[Lesiroth]

Yeah, superheroes with customer support to die for.

Obviously they're successful and they're very good at what they do, but calling any company a superhero is just too much hyperbole for my taste.

 

[RadioactiveLobster]

And the lack of curation on Steam and the flood of unchecked Early Access games are drowning out quality software. Greenlight is also incredibly broken.

Valve would probably be the first people to agree with you on this...

 

[-tetsuo-]

Hmmmm....How many games have they actually developed internally and released?

Which ones haven't they?

They are neither prolific nor consistent, that would be a dev like Naughty Dog for example.

Naughty Dog has half the output, around the same meta average, supports their games far less, has far fewer players playing their games and sale less. How exactly would you justify this statement?

 

[StuBurns]

Gabe has been open about thinking Greenlight is shit, but people think Steam is a mess now, Valve want a self-publishing model. Everyone is going to be able to put whatever they want on there.

 

[Lingitiz]

...not really

Valve has skeezy policies and questionable practices that they just don't get called on. And the lack of curation on Steam and the flood of unchecked Early Access games are drowning out quality software. Greenlight is also incredibly broken.

I think this is less a problem of those two services and more of an interface one. I have no problem with the flood of games on Steam, they just need to better filter what gets on the front page and in the new releases sections. I would rather have the current system than some games not getting on the service like before.

 

[Benslammin]

I disagree, as much as I love valve they have been rather unimpressive lately. They ruined TF2 with f2p, mannconomy, and this sort of obsession over cosmetics rather than making balanced additions to the game and fixing bugs.

Dota2 was well made, however it's almost a carbon copy of another game, nothing too interesting in my opinion.

The same can be said for CS:GO, yes it's another update fans have been asking for and they succeeded in doing so, but yet it's still just that. Another update to a franchise that hasn't really changed much mechanically due to it's hardcore fanbase.

The last noteworthy thing Valve has done for me was Portal 2, valve shows their true colors when they develop their single-player games. No other developer is capable of making jaw dropping atmosphere and set-pieces like that, not to mention attention to detail and fun gameplay design.

I am just going to wait for Valve to do something artistically noteworthy again instead of products that are only really there to keep the business running.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Which ones haven't they?

I think L4D and CS:GO were not developed in house, although the latter has had so many changes, it's practically a new game and those changes were all done in-house.

 

[diaspora]

CD Projekt, now there is a consumer-friendly PC gaming company -

-Overseers of GOG, a place where you can cheaply acquire a ton of PC retro games, totally DRM free.

-Made enhanced editions (with bug fixes, rebalances, and lots of new quests) for both Witcher games, a level of add-on content typically reserved for DLC prices, totally free to people who bought the originals.

I don't like Valve's attempt at moving away from single-player games into a "games as service" purveyor. Nor am I a fan of Steam (or any DD service like XBLA) - I like to own my titles and not be subjected to the whims of Valve.

I'm going to go with this. All of it.

 

[Orayn]

Valve completely abandoned their flagship series. I'm still bitter.

At the same time, you have to consider the other stuff Valve did besides Half-Life, even back in the day.

• There were collaborations with other studios expansion packs and standalones single player games like Gunman Chronicles, Blue Shift, Opposing Force, and Half-Life: Decay. (The PS2 port of Half-Life.)
• We had Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, and Team Fortress Classic, multiplayer mods promoted to full retail release, with some or all of the teams hired by Valve.
• They even put out random oddball one-offs, like Ricochet, Deathmatch Classic, and Codename: Gordon.

That kind of stuff is still being done. Just about the only thing that's changed in the last few years has been that they stopped putting out new Half-Life games, but when you look at Valve's admission that the episodic model wasn't working then consider the expectations surrounding huge, hyped, "epic" single player blockbusters versus the reality of those releases, Valve's radio silence and apprehension start to make a little more sense.

Compare the AAA climate when the first Bioshock game came out to Bioshock Infinite. The first game had a budget in the neighborhood of $25 million and sold about 2 million copies in its first year. Bioshock Infinite had even more pre-release hype, eight times the development budget, sold over twice as many copies in the first two months, and was a huge critical success, yet it lost money and proved to be Irrational's last game. Why? Because it had a troubled development and impossibly high expectations. The aspects of BSI that made it a huge, impactful release also made it a tremendous risk, and Irrational had put all of their eggs in that basket.

Valve doesn't want to go down that road. Yes, they've got money from other sources and a disappointing HL3 wouldn't kill the company, but even just trying to be "that game" is setting yourself up for a very big fall. I have to imagine that the internal culture at Valve is fully cognizant of this and they're not eager to charge headlong into that kind of situation.

 

[Grief.exe]

They are neither prolific nor consistent, that would be a dev like Naughty Dog for example.

Naughty Dog has half the output, around the same meta average, supports their games far less, has far fewer players playing their games and sale less. How exactly would you justify this statement?

 

[Stallion Free]

I think L4D and CS:GO were not developed in house, although the latter has had so many changes, it's practically a new game and those changes were all done in-house.

Yeah CSGO is a completely different game from launch and for the better in every single way.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I would like to add that:

1) I love Naughty Dog and the games they make

2) That is just the games development side of Valve. They still have the Steam side, which basically puts other platforms to shame.

Spoiler

they also put themselfs to shame with how badly it runs

 

[bounchfx]

the one true superhero that refuses to actually communicate with their entire community workshop, despite several outcries. Valve was flawless to me until I started doing items, it's seriously their only weakness as far as I am concerned. All they have to do is say a word or two, or actually show that they're listening. Nope. Silence.

the worst part is I've just come to accept it. you'd think a company that excels in SO many areas would be able to be somewhat transparent with people that help their business model work.


That being said, I think the fact that they were even able to make UGC keep an entire product alive is incredible. They've essentially created a sub-industry and they keep innovating in finding ways to make money. Steam is genius, as are the sub systems like the community market. They find ways to monetize it all in a very user-friendly way. I'm super excited to see where they go from here. I just hope it involves more community interaction.

 

[ReturnToPlanetX]

Once again it proves that the perception of a company is way more important than what it actually does.

I'll take EA/Origin over Valve/Steam any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[Lingitiz]

Yeah CSGO is a completely different game from launch and for the better in every single way.

It's a really impressive fact that with the updates to CSGO they finally managed to unite a large part of the CS1.6/Source population onto one game. It was pretty much a given before it came out that it would be really difficult to do so.

 

[MrCunningham]

And I'd rather pay the money directly to the developer if they offer a DRM-free version, rather than buy through Steam.

As ideal as this sounds, where's the guarantee that you won't just host your DRM free version of said game on BitTorrent or some other hosting site for others to download for free? Honestly I am not the biggest fan of DRM myself, but when running a service like this that caters to large publishers, then there has to be a middle ground set in place to protect the third party interests. Honestly, what other better solution is there for DRM management than account log in, right now that doesn't involve taking control over your PC like DRM methods in the past? Remember SecuROM? I sure do. Right now I think it's an alright balance for what publishers want and customers want as well.

It would be nice if Valve could offer an option DRM free option for developers/ publishers on their service, something that would just use Steam as a delivery service and install the game separately from Steam.

Gabe has been open about thinking Greenlight is shit, but people think Steam is a mess now, Valve want a self-publishing model. Everyone is going to be able to put whatever they want on there.

It was an interesting experiment, and I do give them credit for trying something new. But yeah, it has been an unfiltered mess. I can see their next attempt being like an Amazon storefront scenario, but even this solution might have some issues for the more talented devs to gain exposure.

ID Software are still the heroes of PC gaming. They live on though Valve.

In my mind Apogee and shareware were some of the heroes of PC gaming early on.

 

[inkls]

The title is an exaggeration. Valve isn't as godly as some make them out to be, but they're also not as sinister as some of the posts paint them out like. It certainly helps public opinion that they are not owned by shareholders.

I remember seeing the mission statement of a local grocery chain recently and seeing that their mission was "provide our shareholders with the highest possible revenue" and not delivering quality products which from a customer's perspective is worrisome.

Also, people seriously need to look up who chooses to apply steam DRM and how offline mode works.

As we've seen with the mobile space, the declining value of software isn't just about price.

I feel like your post is missing a paragraph or two. Care to expand on that? Its not like devs are making less money from steam sales like shown.

 

[Canis lupus]

The recent news about Bugbear avoiding bankrupsy thanks to Steam made me realize something. It is truly amazing how such a small company of 300 or so individuals has managed to become such a huge influential force, not only for PC gaming but for the games industry in general. Just take a look at the company's accomplishments in the last decade:

- It released a ton of hugely popular games like Half-Life 2, Portal, TF2 and DOTA2
- It turned Steam into a juggernaut in digital distribution
- it adopted the fairest, most consumer-friendly f2p model around
- it helped the modding community with Steam Workshop, allowing people to earn a living from their work
- it is pushing Linux, OpenGL and Steam Machines
- it is continually adding new Steam features like Family Sharing and Home Streaming
- it saved a lot of developers' asses with Steam Early Access

I'm sure there are more accomplishments that I've forgotten but holy shit, that is A LOT of great work that directly benefited gamers and developers worldwide. Of course it benefited Valve as well, massively so, but Valve is, in my opinion, one of the very few companies that deserves the praise it gets. Good job Valve! Praise Gaben!

O really, as being mainly a console gamer, I have yet to see them being influential outside PC gaming.

 

[Stallion Free]

O really, as being mainly a console gamer, I have yet to see them being influential outside PC gaming.

Yeah it would be nice if they convinced MS and Sony to no longer fuck the consumer with paywalls for basic features.

 

[MrCunningham]

I remember seeing the mission statement of a local grocery chain recently and seeing that their mission was "provide our shareholders with the highest possible revenue" and not delivering quality products which from a customer's perspective is worrisome.

Certainly one of the luxuries that Valve has as a privately owned company.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Not really. The Orange Box, both Left4Deads, Portal 2, CS:GO, every gamepad friendly game they made last generation came to consoles.

CS:GO was ass. They couldn't even be bothered to patch it ONE SINGLE TIME.
SMH

 

[zhorkat]

As ideal as this sounds, where's the guarantee that you won't just host your DRM free version of said game on BitTorrent or some other hosting site for others to download for free?

There is no guarantee, just as there is also no guarantee that any game released on Steam with DRM won't be immediately cracked and distributed via BitTorrent or download sites.

It would be nice if Valve could offer an option DRM free option for developers/ publishers on their service, something that would just use Steam as a delivery service and install the game separately from Steam.

You can distribute DRM-free games via Steam, although the download won't be packaged as nicely as a download from GOG and you would still have to use the Steam client to get the game.

 

[Grief.exe]

The recent news about Bugbear avoiding bankrupsy thanks to Steam made me realize something. It is truly amazing how such a small company of 300 or so individuals has managed to become such a huge influential force, not only for PC gaming but for the games industry in general. Just take a look at the company's accomplishments in the last decade:

- It released a ton of hugely popular games like Half-Life 2, Portal, TF2 and DOTA2
- It turned Steam into a juggernaut in digital distribution
- it adopted the fairest, most consumer-friendly f2p model around
- it helped the modding community with Steam Workshop, allowing people to earn a living from their work
- it is pushing Linux, OpenGL and Steam Machines
- it is continually adding new Steam features like Family Sharing and Home Streaming
- it saved a lot of developers' asses with Steam Early Access

I'm sure there are more accomplishments that I've forgotten but holy shit, that is A LOT of great work that directly benefited gamers and developers worldwide. Of course it benefited Valve as well, massively so, but Valve is, in my opinion, one of the very few companies that deserves the praise it gets. Good job Valve! Praise Gaben!

O really, as being mainly a console gamer, I have yet to see them being influential outside PC gaming.

How does this preclude anything that was said in the OP?

 

[inkls]

Certainly one of the luxuries that Valve has as a privately owned company.

Well its certainly more likely at the very least.

 

[hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka]

O really, as being mainly a console gamer, I have yet to see them being influential outside PC gaming.

That's a selfish way to look at it.

 

[MrCunningham]

There is no guarantee, just as there is also no guarantee that any game released on Steam with DRM won't be immediately cracked and distributed via BitTorrent or download sites.

Well, there's no real fool proof way to prevent piracy at all, but at least one method can circumvent it to a point where a developer can still make a profit of their game.

You can distribute DRM-free games via Steam, although the download won't be packaged as nicely as a download from GOG and you would still have to use the Steam client to get the game.

Whoops there are. But even on GOG, you would still have to log into your account to download their game packages. Either way you are logging into something. Though I do agree that GOG does offer a nicer assortment of download options, including the original binaries untouched.

 

[Marcel]

As ideal as this sounds, where's the guarantee that you won't just host your DRM free version of said game on BitTorrent or some other hosting site for others to download for free? Honestly I am not the biggest fan of DRM myself, but when running a service like this that caters to large publishers, then there has to be a middle ground set in place to protect the third party interests. Honestly, what other better solution is there for DRM management than account log in, right now that doesn't involve taking control over your PC like DRM methods in the past? Remember SecuROM? I sure do. Right now I think it's an alright balance for what publishers want and customers want as well.

I clarified my statement by saying that I was talking more about the indie game model of say buying Gone Home through the Fullbright Company themselves rather than through Steam. I get a DRM-free copy of the game and the developers get the money directly without Valve taking a cut for exposure and distribution. I feel better about doing that if given the choice. You're right of course that there's no guarantee I won't host it on BitTorrent but that's an assumed risk of anyone who wants to provide a DRM-free version of their game.

For a bigger publisher of AAA games, I suppose Steam is the only viable middle-ground as you say. It has a large user base and one of the more...enthusiastic crowds behind it. But despite all that, Valve is not heroic for providing a DRM middle-ground. You can laud them for improving the landscape from shit to not-so shit but let's not act like they did it altruistically. They are a business who saw a want/need and successfully (after a while) monetized it, though people forget that Steam was a disaster when it first started.

 

[Orniletter]

I did not know that CD Project was in charge of GOG.

You learn something new every day !

 

[Kalnos]

Valve just hasn't made a good game in years. Well...other than Dota 2, CS:GO, Portal 2.... Hm, let me think about how those games don't count or whatever.

 

[woxel1]

Valve is a superhero all right.

 

[aeolist]

all the console-only people complaining that valve hasn't done anything for them is hilarious. basically all of the indies hitting consoles lately were PC successes first mainly thanks to steam. valve almost single-handedly created a market where developers like that could succeed and it benefited everyone.

not to mention the fact that sony and microsoft loosening their publishing requirements in the first place is largely thanks to steam and mobile markets giving indies their freedom from publishers.

 

[Stallion Free]

CS:GO was ass. They couldn't even be bothered to patch it ONE SINGLE TIME.
SMH

If you patched your game as often as Valve is used to you would probably say fuck it too with the two weeks plus certification period.

 

[MrCunningham]

I clarified my statement by saying that I was talking more about the indie game model of say buying Gone Home through the Fullbright Company themselves rather than through Steam. I get a DRM-free copy of the game and the developers get the money directly without Valve taking a cut for exposure and distribution. I feel better about doing that if given the choice. You're right of course that there's no guarantee I won't host it on BitTorrent but that's an assumed risk of anyone who wants to provide a DRM-free version of their game.

That makes a little more sense. I was thinking of larger publishers when I typed that up.

 

[Olli128]

Valve love is annoying, they're better than many other companies in gaming but they're in no way heroes. To counter your list consider:


-no quality control despite having the money for it
-client is prone to breaking regularly with stuff like the library db corrupting
-Client and big picture is damn ugly, desktop version especially needs modernising
-Been adding useless bloat to client (Looking at you trading cards)
-Terrible customer service and no refunds
-Can't count to 3

Oh and also where the he'll is cs:go on eu psn and why did they never explain it's absence.. People were waiting for months before finally giving up and no explanation.

Oh and steam only games which require downloading even when bought on disk is a shame for the admittedly small people who want to stick to physical releases due to collecting or bad broadband limits / speed

 

[Winterfang]

Where's Half Life 3?

 

[EGM1966]

Not when i don't have episode 3 installed on my hard drive they're not.

 

[TrutaS]

This will be valid when Half-Life 3 comes out. Right now I am really sour about them (I still love everything they do though, I'm just bitter).

 

[aeolist]

I clarified my statement by saying that I was talking more about the indie game model of say buying Gone Home through the Fullbright Company themselves rather than through Steam. I get a DRM-free copy of the game and the developers get the money directly without Valve taking a cut for exposure and distribution. I feel better about doing that if given the choice. You're right of course that there's no guarantee I won't host it on BitTorrent but that's an assumed risk of anyone who wants to provide a DRM-free version of their game.

For a bigger publisher of AAA games, I suppose Steam is the only viable middle-ground as you say. It has a large user base and one of the more...enthusiastic crowds behind it. But despite all that, Valve is not heroic for providing a DRM middle-ground. You can laud them for improving the landscape from shit to not-so shit but let's not act like they did it altruistically. They are a business who saw a want/need and successfully (after a while) monetized it, though people forget that Steam was a disaster when it first started.

i gave my money to fullbright (through a humble store widget, but almost everyone is going to use some kind of payment processor in lieu of doing absolutely everything themselves) and got a steam key. i do this with every indie game i can because i know it gives them a bigger cut.

valve allowing developers to generate keys themselves and not taking a cut on keys sold outside of steam is what enabled this. nobody else did this beforehand and it made things better for everyone.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

If you patched your game as often as Valve is used to you would probably say fuck it too with the two weeks plus certification period.

If they were never going to patch than they should have made sure it didn't release with broken mechanics.
They should have given the Pc version a 6 month head start at least.

 

[-tetsuo-]

-Been adding useless bloat to client (Looking at you trading cards)

How are trading cards even anywhere close to useless?

 

[zhorkat]

Well, there's no real fool proof way to prevent piracy at all, but at least one method can circumvent it to a point where a developer can still make a profit of their game.

Whoops there are. But even on GOG, you would still have to log into your account to download their game packages. Either way you are logging into something. Though I do agree that GOG does offer a nicer assortment of download options, including the original binaries untouched.

I'm not sure what you mean by DRM anymore, since it sounds like you think GOG has DRM since it requires you to login to an account to download your games.

 

[Jamix012]

That's a selfish way to look at it.

Isn't it, conversely, selfish to act as if they're the "superhero" when they have such little influence in such a big part of gaming?

 

[Olli128]

How are trading cards even anywhere close to useless?

How on earth are they useful? It's a microtransaction meta game made made so valve could get a cut and boost profits but alot of people look over that as they can get a few cents / pennies from the "whales" this service is designed for

 

[Goddard]

"Steam is a form of DRM" is controversial? Nah man it's even on Wikipedia. Just there plain as day. Look it up if you get some time away from the Steam storefront.

The way you wrote your post and the following posts strongly implied you meant that steam as a whole is just a form of DRM. Also, for accusing me of corporate favouritism in literally every single on of your posts instead of even once explaining yourself once, a sincere fuck you.

 

[Lingitiz]

How on earth are they useful? It's a microtransaction meta game made made so valve could get a cut and boost profits but alot of people look over that as they can get a few cents / pennies from the "whales" this service is designed for

I've bought a couple of games using trading card money so I'm not really complaining. It's not like huge ads pop up and tell you to buy them or anything. They're really not intrusive whatsoever and actually provide me some benefit.

 

[RulkezX]

They need to redo the client , it's slow and janky as hell.

 

[Marcel]

Isn't it, conversely, selfish to act as if they're the "superhero" when they have such little influence in such a big part of gaming?

Steam sales were a direct influence on the consoles having more sales on their digital goods. Some (PS+, not as good as Steam since you have to pay for the discounts but there also free games etc.) are better than others (XBL Gold, also have to pay but for usually worse sales. Wow! $3 off Toy Soldiers. Amazing) but it's progress. Nintendo still hasn't quite got there on digital goods when you consider all the issues they have with digital licenses.

 

[-tetsuo-]

How on earth are they useful? It's a microtransaction meta game made made so valve could get a cut and boost profits but alot of people look over that as they can get a few cents / pennies from the "whales" this service is designed for

If you play the metagame you can get steam credit and unlock features on your Steam account. It is

A) A game
B) Used to earn things you actually use on your acount

I am not seeing how they are useless. Just because you don't use them it doesn't nullify their existence or purpose.