• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Valve removes sexual games from Greenlight.

Actually its mainly because of advertising. I don't think Google will support a site that features pornography. So boycott Google as well.

It's not just Google.

People browsing NeoGAF at their workplace may be fired if caught browsing adult content. Boycott those workplaces.

In some countries the law disallows websites hosting adult content without age restrictions. Boycott those laws.

It may also be an issue of hosting. Some hosts clearly state in their TOS that hosting adult content is strictly forbidden. Boycott those hosts.


I'd be surprised if advertising is the main reason why pornography is not allowed on GAF.
 
igdZnPkPWXiaG.gif

Where has this GIF been all my life? Awesome.
 
Great points all around but I'd like to address this specific issue. I would argue that if Valve did open the Greenlight flood gates to sexuality explicity/porn games that it would do more harm than good in getting these types of games to the mainstream. There would simply be too much trash to wade through not to mention a lot of them taking things 'too far.'

I think it will take injecting 'normal' games with more mature, sexual content and easing the public into it. Unlike comics and things like Heavy Metal magazine, gaming will need more than just pretty erotic pictures... it needs good gameplay.

There is no "opening up the floodgates" though.
Even putting sexuality aside, can i have a game on greenlight where i'm a Nazist that shoots down Jews in a concentration camp, with a sniper rifle (Shindler's List style, to be clear)? Not really (not that i'd want such a game, btw :P), yet violent war games are generally ok.
So i don't see it in terms of "flood gates", "all or nothing", etc.

Also, i don't think anyone here is seriously even thinking about boycotting Steam over this, just a discrepancy in views expressed on a message board.
 
People realize that different countries have different laws relating to porn, right?
As well as different laws relating to violence. Your point being?

I think it will take injecting 'normal' games with more mature, sexual content and easing the public into it. Unlike comics and things like Heavy Metal magazine, gaming will need more than just pretty erotic pictures... it needs good gameplay.
What is the point with "easing the public into" something they might not even want in the first place? Why would including sexual content in "normal" games be a positive thing compared to just making games that revolve around sexual content?
 
As well as different laws relating to violence. Your point being?


What is the point with "easing the public into" something they might not even want in the first place? Why would including sexual content in "normal" games be a positive thing compared to just making games that revolve around sexual content?

Part of the reason they took those games down was for legal reasons. And as iunderstand it they are seperate processes. ON top of that most of the sex games peopel were submitting it didn't seem as though the peopel owned the rights to them.
 
Also, i don't think anyone here is seriously even thinking about boycotting Steam over this, just a discrepancy in views expressed on a message board.

It's just interesting to read some of the complaints as if Gabe was going to solve a problem that Google, Apple, Microsoft, Sony, NeoGAF, etc wont touch. That people are actually surprised/outraged Steam isn't going to allow sexually explicit content on their service is mind boggling.
 
This doesn't surprise me one bit. Seriously. If Valve had let that kind of stuff roam free, no matter what your opinion is on this kind of stuff, it still would have been a terrible business decision for Valve. The loss of current customers (especially of younger ages) greatly outweighs the amount of potential customers that could be buying this stuff.
 
Guys where can I find the Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, porn games censorship outrage thread. I can't seem to find it?
 
Guys where can I find the Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, porn games censorship outrage thread. I can't seem to find it?

Microsoft: Your application shouldn't contain content that displays (via text, images, video, or other media) or links to Pornography, obscenity, nudity, or sexual activity.

Poster: K.

Sony: Your application shouldn't contain content that displays (via text, images, video, or other media) or links to Pornography, obscenity, nudity, or sexual activity.
Poster: K.

Nintendo: Your application shouldn't contain content that displays (via text, images, video, or other media) or links to Pornography, obscenity, nudity, or sexual activity.

Poster: K.

Apple: Your application shouldn't contain content that displays (via text, images, video, or other media) or links to Pornography, obscenity, nudity, or sexual activity.

Poster: K.

Google: Your application shouldn't contain content that displays (via text, images, video, or other media) or links to Pornography, obscenity, nudity, or sexual activity.

Poster: K.

NeoGAF: Your post shouldn't contain content that displays (via text, images, video, or other media) or links to Pornography, obscenity, nudity, or sexual activity.

Poster: K.

Steam Greenlight: Your application shouldn't contain content that displays (via text, images, video, or other media) or links to Pornography, obscenity, nudity, or sexual activity.

Poster: HOLY FUCKING SHIT CENSORSHIP. FU VALVE!
 
Great points all around but I'd like to address this specific issue. I would argue that if Valve did open the Greenlight flood gates to sexuality explicity/porn games that it would do more harm than good in getting these types of games to the mainstream. There would simply be too much trash to wade through not to mention a lot of them taking things 'too far.'

I think it will take injecting 'normal' games with more mature, sexual content and easing the public into it. Unlike comics and things like Heavy Metal magazine, gaming will need more than just pretty erotic pictures... it needs good gameplay.

I agree, if there would be a general "everything goes!" on Steam, it would get nasty pretty soon. On the other hand, this could be one of the strengths of the Greenlight system: e.g. Heavy Metal magazine had some sort of editing maintaining a certain amount of quality. Now we have 1.) the users and 2.) some supervisors deciding about the content quality which could be published. So Greenlight is better suited for this kind of push into a almost untouched topic in games (in the Western world at least) than some specialised porn games-store where everything goes and we'd have hordes of Custer's Revenge-clones :D But as I wrote, I can understand Valves decision, I'm just not that happy about it ^^

As with the gameplay problem ... I think this is similiar to a point I made about the difficulty that game development teams are bigger and more expensive than one artist who makes an erotic comic. You're right, it needs good gameplay and this might be a good challenge for reknown game designers, maybe even creating new genres or ways to interact with a gameworld. Again, if we can see erotic games as more than "wank material". There are enough strongly erotic movies and graphic novels and songs and pictures that are not there for wanking purposes. Who knows, in this day and age a well made adventure game with erotic content could reach yet another group of people who were just waiting for this kind of game (ok, there was Leisure Suit Larry ^^").

What is the point with "easing the public into" something they might not even want in the first place? Why would including sexual content in "normal" games be a positive thing compared to just making games that revolve around sexual content?

Who is the public you talk about? The same public that was shocked when the skirts got shorter in the 60s? The same public that thought fitness videogames couldn't be successful and old people, business women/men, parents, schools couldn't be a target group for videogames? IMO, videogames are also a way of "trying something else", be someone else for a few hours, do something that you wouldn't or couldn't do IRL. I'm pretty sure people would also like to be that person who is successful in bonding and hooking up with someone she's/he's attracted to. Of course, not everyone will like it, but you don't have to buy it then. I don't like shooting realistic soldiers, so I just don't buy most of the games featuring shooting of realistic soldiers. I wouldn't think of saying "Well I know many people who don't like shooting soldiers, so why do we even have these kind of games?"..

It's not about including it in any "normal" game but in games that already are aimed at adults nevertheless - but imagine, you have this cool cyberpunk film noir'ish thriller with a femme fatale that seduces the main character and thus gets him into danger (ok so you wanted that erotic interaction, now you have to deal with the enemy having the information.. or mabye you've been smooth enough to get her on your side?)! That game about a grizzled revengeseeking sword fighter who lost the love of her life and while killing endless ninjas and zombies in an apocalyptic world she struggles to find a new man who is right for her (if you're not serious at all with this type of game, you could go all parody like "the better the sex goes, the more power for fighting you have later on" and if he sucks, he's zombie bait :P)? The game about a soldier on a killing mission who falls in love with a woman in the country he fights against and has to decide who he will abandon - his country or his love (and all the more difficult for the player to decide since you also get to live through the erotic aspects and the "falling in love"-aspect of the story)? All these games have simple and unoriginal stories that rank on the side of B-movies, ok (I just tried to make up some examples), but they would have a justification for an erotic undertone, some sort of love scene, possibility to introduce some sort of more important gameplay into the erotic scenes, decision-making that changes the way your game goes on.

Yet, for all those who don't like this kind of thing, there still will be enough games that won't feature nudity or anything. But I'm pretty sure there's a target group for games that feature erotic stories, undertones, love, sex, whatever...
 
Guys where can I find the Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, porn games censorship outrage thread. I can't seem to find it?

Valve as a company tends to project a "higher quality" than most big businesses. They're privately owned, support Steam as an open platform, put choices and development in the hands of fans and the community... I hold Valve to a high standard because they present themselves that way.

It's not surprising that they'd shut out explicit content: it's a practical choice. But I can't help but be disappointed they took the easy way out.
 
Poster: HOLY FUCKING SHIT CENSORSHIP. FU VALVE!

To use the movie analogy again, I think some people see Valve as the equivalent of an arthouse theatre when in reality they are AMC Theatres or Cineplex Odeon. Catering to a large demographic and expanding their business is more important to them than making a controversial stand on art or artist rights. I think it is refreshing that Valve is using (mostly) pro-consumer methods of expanding its business. Few companies seem to be going that route currently. You can't even buy sexual games/apps on the iOS and Android stores and those have hundreds of millions of users. Not sure why anyone would expect differently from Steam. There is a reason why all the big companies shy away from pornographic material.
 
Literally everything Valve has done in the last 6 months has been spun into something incredibly negative in most threads on Gaf.

Yeah it's pretty crazy. I think it's blowback from all the gushing fans Valve has. It's almost as if there are people just waiting for Valve to fuck up so they can 'stick it' to Steam fans.
 
Wall of text.
For developers creating huge games, I see some potential issues in this logic. For example, a developer making games for adults (aka. games with violence) is basically surviving because violence is so acceptable in society and parents are letting their children play these types of games. However, if these games were to have some sexual content in them, a lot of parents would most likely not buy or let their kids buy these games at all. Thus potential sales as well as potential buyers could be lost.
 
It's just interesting to read some of the complaints as if Gabe was going to solve a problem that Google, Apple, Microsoft, Sony, NeoGAF, etc wont touch. That people are actually surprised/outraged Steam isn't going to allow sexually explicit content on their service is mind boggling.

I respect but don't agree with NeoGaf's policy either (and i've said as much in a thread), yet i think it's a bit different, logistically, there.
Anyhow, personally i'm not outraged by any stretch of the imagination and i'm commenting on it just because this thread popped up, just to be clear. :)

I guess some of what kswinston said is also true, having the wrong image of Valve/Steam in my head.
 
For developers creating huge games, I see some potential issues in this logic. For example, a developer making games for adults (aka. games with violence) is basically surviving because violence is so acceptable in society and parents are letting their children play these types of games. However, if these games were to have some sexual content in them, a lot of parents would most likely not buy or let their kids buy these games at all. Thus potential sales as well as potential buyers could be lost.

True, but that's also a problem of the current state of the industry (games being to expensive to create to do something high budget out of norm). It's not an ideal world. But why shouldn't at least indie developers be able to give it a try and still sell it through regular channels as long as they don't go into the direction of "rape simulation" or something like that (yes it's Steam's decision what they will allow but I'm arguing against the general sentiment of being opposed to making and selling games with erotic content)? I mean, ok, the game of discussion here, while looking nice enough, pretty much is just a porn game (nevertheless, there is a target group and it still can be well made. Entertainment is entertainment.). But I mean in general. Also, I'm not sure in how far it hurt the sales of games like GTA IV, The Witcher II, Heavy Rain or God of War that they featured nudity and sex scenes.
 
True, but that's also a problem of the current state of the industry (games being to expensive to create to do something high budget out of norm). It's not an ideal world. But why shouldn't at least indie developers be able to give it a try and still sell it through regular channels as long as they don't go into the direction of "rape simulation" or something like that (yes it's Steam's decision what they will allow but I'm arguing against the general sentiment of being opposed to making and selling games with erotic content)? I mean, ok, the game of discussion here, while looking nice enough, pretty much is just a porn game (nevertheless, there is a target group and it still can be well made. Entertainment is entertainment.). But I mean in general. Also, I'm not sure in how far it hurt the sales of games like GTA IV, The Witcher II, Heavy Rain or God of War that they featured nudity and sex scenes.
Yeah, I'm not really arguing with you or anything. I just think this is an interesting discussion. As I stated earlier in this thread, I think what Valve is doing right now is logical from a business perspective. Having that said, I do hope that this market can be more open in the future in regards to all genres. If the film industry can "do it", why can't we?
 
Yeah, I'm not really arguing with you or anything. I just think this is an interesting discussion. As I stated earlier in this thread, I think what Valve is doing right now is logical from a business perspective. Having that said, I do hope that this market can be more open in the future in regards to all genres. If the film industry can "do it", why can't we?

Well said, cheers to that.
 
Great points all around but I'd like to address this specific issue. I would argue that if Valve did open the Greenlight flood gates to sexuality explicity/porn games that it would do more harm than good in getting these types of games to the mainstream. There would simply be too much trash to wade through not to mention a lot of them taking things 'too far.'

I think it will take injecting 'normal' games with more mature, sexual content and easing the public into it. Unlike comics and things like Heavy Metal magazine, gaming will need more than just pretty erotic pictures... it needs good gameplay.

eroticism= sexuality explicity/porn games?

dude, whats wrong with you?
 
What is the point with "easing the public into" something they might not even want in the first place? Why would including sexual content in "normal" games be a positive thing compared to just making games that revolve around sexual content?
If the public doesn't want those games, then why sould Steam sell them? It will get them trouble, it will be terrible PR, and they will likely not sell enough to justify them going through all that heat.

And even if you still think Valve's wrong, it's their store, so the decision is up to them. Nobody is preventing you from buying porn games, just get them somewhere else, as was said countless times before in this thread.


People browsing NeoGAF at their workplace may be fired if caught browsing adult content. Boycott those workplaces.
People shouldn't be browsing GAF at their workplace, they should be working hard all the time!

(comment sent from my workplace :P )
 
If the public doesn't want those games, then why sould Steam sell them? It will get them trouble, it will be terrible PR, and they will likely not sell enough to justify them going through all that heat.

And even if you still think Valve's wrong, it's their store, so the decision is up to them. Nobody is preventing you from buying porn games, just get them somewhere else, as was said countless times before in this thread.



People shouldn't be browsing GAF at their workplace, they should be working hard all the time!

(comment sent from my workplace :P )

yup, its their right and ours to complain and to say why its wrong , as was said countless times before in this thread.
 
If the public doesn't want those games, then why sould Steam sell them? It will get them trouble, it will be terrible PR, and they will likely not sell enough to justify them going through all that heat.

And even if you still think Valve's wrong, it's their store, so the decision is up to them. Nobody is preventing you from buying porn games, just get them somewhere else, as was said countless times before in this thread.
Uh, have you not read anything I've written in this thread at all? When have I stated that Valve is in the wrong here?
 
yup, its their right and ours to complain and to say why its wrong , as was said countless times before in this thread.

No one is stopping you from complaining. Some people just don't happen to agree with your complaints and are defending Valve's position. It's within Valve's rights to take this action, it's within your rights to complain about it and it's within others' rights to defend or agree with Valve's action. I'm sure everyone is aware of that.
 
yup, its their right and ours to complain and to say why its wrong , as was said countless times before in this thread.
Of course, but some of the complainers sound as if they were demanding Valve to sell porn games. When they say thinks like Steam is censoring those games, and supressing people's rights to play them it makes me think they don't get that Valve is a privately owned company, and nobody but them gets to decide which kind of games they sell.

Not selling something =/= censoring it


Uh, have you not read anything I've written in this thread at all? When have I stated that Valve is in the wrong here?
My mistake, I forgot who was supporting which opinion. I still stand by my point, though I should have made it more general instead of directed to you.
 
No one is stopping you from complaining. Some people just don't happen to agree with your complaints and are defending Valve's position. It's within Valve's rights to take this action, it's within your rights to complain about it and it's within others' rights to defend or agree with Valve's action. I'm sure everyone is aware of that.

"its their right" is a poor way to defend moral hypocrites. we are attacking how they used their right not that they used it. and is getting old, being repeated over and over. but hey, here are the "we meant it well" defenders.
 
Valve:
Steam has never been a leading destination for erotic material. Greenlight doesn't aim to change that.

Where does it say that they ban erotisism?

It states that valve has no interest in becoming a major venue for games with erotic content, not that they won't sell any erotic content at all.

There are enough games that contain sex/sexually explicit material on Steam that prove that steam is not opposed to sex in games per se.

Show me a good game with sexual content that was rejected from steam.
 
Where does it say that they ban erotisism?

It states that valve has no interest in becoming a major venue for games with erotic content, not that they won't sell any erotic content at all.

There are enough games that contain sex/sexually explicit material on Steam that prove that steam is not opposed to sex in games per se.

Show me a good game with sexual content that was rejected from steam.

this point is old. list wars are old.moral hypocriting is old. keep it on.
 
this point is old. list wars are old.moral hypocriting is old. keep it on.

your point is old too. Steam didn't ban sex from their service, that's a fact.


They never positioned their stance morally. Nowhere do i read something of "protecting the children" or "we are opposed to sexual content". They just stated they won't sell it, probably because it makes little sense business wise to do it.
 
Where does it say that they ban erotisism?

It states that valve has no interest in becoming a major venue for games with erotic content, not that they won't sell any erotic content at all.

There are enough games that contain sex/sexually explicit material on Steam that prove that steam is not opposed to sex in games per se.

Show me a good game with sexual content that was rejected from steam.

That's why I would wish for more transparent guidelines. Their "Your game must not contain offensive material..." is a bit wishy-washy. Especially for indie developers that don't go all porn but really just have some erotic scenes, nudity or some jokes that might be offending to some people in their game (or something totally silly like naked strippers fighting against aliens with blades on their highheels and dancing moves or whatever which isn't wank material but... just silly). What is "offensive"? If I wanted to submit a game, I have to pay 100$ for that - if it then gets rejected for something that someone else finds offensive I think everyone would be angry. So IMO at least it should be more clearly defined what is "offensive material" to Steam.
 
your point is old too. Steam didn't ban sex from their service, that's a fact.


They never positioned their stance morally. Nowhere do i read something of "protecting the children" or "we are opposed to sexual content". They just stated they won't sell it, probably because it makes little sense business wise to do it.

They didn´t ban it but they won´t sell it... wait what?
 
That describes Gaf's reaction to most Valve news after the summer sale. People's eruption over the ToS change when others were trying to explain that everyone else has it too was equally ridiculous.

And as was explained to you countless times in that thread, "everyone else does it too" is a craptacular defense of bad corporate behavior.

**Note: I'm not opining one way or the other on this particular Valve policy. But that's a bad argument no matter where it comes up.
 
That's why I would wish for more transparent guidelines. Their "Your game must not contain offensive material..." is a bit wishy-washy. Especially for indie developers that don't go all porn but really just have some erotic scenes, nudity or some jokes that might be offending to some people in their game (or something totally silly like naked strippers fighting against aliens with blades on their highheels and dancing moves or whatever which isn't wank material but... just silly). What is "offensive"? If I wanted to submit a game, I have to pay 100$ for that - if it then gets rejected for something that someone else finds offensive I think everyone would be angry. So IMO at least it should be more clearly defined what is "offensive material" to Steam.

I think the wishy-washy approach is better because it allows a case by case basis. Oh, you have a scene with x but it fits in this context, fine let it through. Rather than a checklist: no penises, but naked breasts are okay. Which imo, is way more restrictive.

They didn´t ban it but they won´t sell it... wait what?

There's sexual content on steam, it is sold, for money. Do i need to explain it in more details?
 
to put it simple:

daddy valve won´t allow , i quote, erotic content on their service. what does this mean and why is it a good thing?
 
The problem is that sex has gone on too long being a taboo subject whereas war and violence have gained popularity. We are now stuck in a catch 22 where not enough decent erotic games can be made and sold because there is no market, and there is no market because there are aren't enough erotic games. It really doesn't help that violent games can come in many degrees and be accepted via a flexible rating system, whereas all sex and eroticism tends to get grouped together under the mantle of "porn".

From my understanding (that may very well be wrong), the reason why people seem to be especially disappointed in Valve is that they appear to be held to a higher standard by many and sort of seen as the best place and the best way to get noticed if you want your game to do well.

I'm certainly not part of some "Valve hate squad" looking to attack them at any stumble, but I will admit my general disappointment that we can't get past this stigma already and just rate erotic games the same way we do violent ones. Valve permitting, but restricting, a fair level of erotic games would be seen as a massive step forward in my eyes and might even spur a gradual change of perception towards eroticism.
 
And as was explained to you countless times in that thread, "everyone else does it too" is a craptacular defense of bad corporate behavior.

**Note: I'm not opining one way or the other on this particular Valve policy. But that's a bad argument no matter where it comes up.

And as I said in that other thread why were people picking on Valve for that when everyone else was doing it? Where was the outrage for MS and Sony? Valve/Steam has been the target on here for the past few months so that's why the outrage was only for them.
 
The problem is that sex has gone on too long being a taboo subject whereas war and violence have gained popularity. We are now stuck in a catch 22 where not enough decent erotic games can be made and sold because there is no market, and there is no market because there are aren't enough erotic games. It really doesn't help that violent games can come in many degrees and be accepted via a flexible rating system, whereas all sex and eroticism tends to get grouped together under the mantle of "porn".

From my understanding (that may very well be wrong), the reason why people seem to be especially disappointed in Valve is that they appear to be held to a higher standard by many and sort of seen as the best place and the best way to get noticed if you want your game to do well.

I'm certainly not part of some "Valve hate squad" looking to attack them at any stumble, but I will admit my general disappointment that we can't get past this stigma already and just rate erotic games the same way we do violent ones. Valve permitting, but restricting, a fair level of erotic games would be seen as a massive step forward in my eyes and might even spur a gradual change of perception towards eroticism.

The biggest resaon why there isn't a mainstream market for erotic games is that:
-a lot of them are essentially erotic/porn novels
-most of them are very bad games even if they aren't VN's
-people are used to free porn and won't pay big bucks for a porn game, especially since it's probably shitty anyway.

Anyway, it's not like sex is absent from big budget games, especially in RPG's it's quite common. Then you have the more juvenile stuff like in God of War or in fighting games.
 
to put it simple:

daddy valve won´t allow , i quote, erotic content on their service. what does this mean and why is it a good thing?
It means you'll have to buy them on another place rather than Steam. And I'm not saying it's a good thing (though I'm not sad at all about Steam not selling porn stuff), but Valve think it is, from a business point of view.
 
The biggest resaon why there isn't a mainstream market for erotic games is that:
-a lot of them are essentially erotic novels
-a big percentage are very bad games
-people are used to free porn and won't pay big bucks for a porn game, especially since it's probably shitty anyway.
- If people enjoy them, then okay, however...
- I already stated this in my post.
- You fell into the trap I outlined in my post. An erotic game isn't synonymous with full on porn, just like violence can come in many forms.
 
- If people enjoy them, then okay, however...
- I already stated this in my post.
- You fell into the trap I outlined in my post. An erotic game isn't synonymous with full on porn, just like violence can come in many forms.

I edited my post a bit but you were faster.

Erotisism isn't absent from mainstream games, especially in RPG's. Then there's all kinds of games full with titilation.

In general these things have become more common in recent years. None of these games are banned on steam btw.
 
I edited my post a bit but you were faster.

Erotisism isn't absent from mainstream games, especially in RPG's. Then there's all kinds of games full with titilation.

In general these things have become more common in recent years. None of these games are banned on steam btw.

But as I also stated, there is a massive stigma against eroticism. It seems that erotic content is more acceptable when included amongst violent content, but when a game is more focused on the erotic content problems seem to arise.
 
Top Bottom